Even Further Beyond [Complete]

You didn't earn it by chance, no. Don't be so hard on yourselves! You earned it through hard work!

To earn the greatest reward of a Beyond Point, though, takes more than diligence alone...
That the color of a Beyond Point is the same as that of the Divine Brother's is just a coincidence, right? We're not getting rewards for performing well from him like a well-trained dog, right?!

That said, if the divine plane is Beyond, just what does the Even Further Beyond title reference? Just a general allusion to the ridiculous escalation bullshit going on in xianxia?
 
That the color of a Beyond Point is the same as that of the Divine Brother's is just a coincidence, right? We're not getting rewards for performing well from him like a well-trained dog, right?!

That said, if the divine plane is Beyond, just what does the Even Further Beyond title reference? Just a general allusion to the ridiculous escalation bullshit going on in xianxia?
It's a DBZ reference. Good catch with the Beyond Point, it does seem likely it's a perk for... performing well, I guess. "They so badly desire a Dark Lord," and all that.
 
Diagram is empirically the least of the three discipline when taken on it's own.

We have paid for incredible talent in Cultivation and for ability to learn on our own in Diagram.

BASK fully improves Binary and almost fully improves Cultivation while JAP only fully improves Diagram.

Int and keikaku vs Cha, resources/influence and Grandpa's intervention.
 
Diagram is empirically the least of the three discipline when taken on it's own.

We have paid for incredible talent in Cultivation and for ability to learn on our own in Diagram.

BASK fully improves Binary and almost fully improves Cultivation while JAP only fully improves Diagram.

Int and keikaku vs Cha, resources/influence and Grandpa's intervention.

It is the least, when taken on its own.
But we haven't.

We know diagrammatic magic is the most versatile and quickest to master, with high level cultavists being almost as versatile.

We want that flexibility, then the strength. So that we have options quickly, rather than options near the end game.

I'm imagining diagrammatic magic as the size of the foundation we're building our cultivation tower on. The wider it is; the grander the resulting structure.
 
[X] Just As Planned

Just As Planned appeals to me for several reasons.

One, it gets us a Lich Mentor. We can learn spells from a wizard directly. That's... I mean, having a teacher in magic does wonders for your learning speed in a field. And since wizards are actually kind of rare due to being a dying breed, it's probably not all that easy to find a really great mentor.

Two, it lets us learn from dad, who's reputation is in being able to take any advantage and eke out a win for himself. To be able to achieve great power despite not even having reached for it the normal way -- he went from nothing to Reality Forming stage, somehow. I feel like that's really important, in our situation. Because we're dealing with an overpowered enemy from a disadvantage. So any chance of being able to grasp onto that "go from zero to 100" element is... it's key.

Also, even if dad doesn't have some kind of cheat or massive luck that explains how he managed all this? Then it means instead that he is incredibly good at hiding his true strength. (And he still has great-bullshitting-and-hiding powers in the scenario where he did cheat his way to power; because he still had to be able to put up a front of a lazy, spoiled guy.)

And that's just the thing we want to have when we know we're going to face a divine opponent; we want the most dangerous element on our side.

The element of surprise.
 
@Rihaku

The clear solution is to go for the shitty compromise vote.

[] BASK IN MY GLORY, Just as Planned
-[A Strong Foundation, A Blazing Sun, Social Butterfly, Grandfather, A Spoiled Brat, A Total Bookworm, Father, Lich Unlock]
Pros:
Satisfies most of the thread.
3 Heroic Passions to shoot us with
Maximum Xianxia escalation

Cons:
Satisfies most of the thread
Marginally breaks game balance
Shitty Compromise Vote Option
 
@Rihaku

The clear solution is to go for the shitty compromise vote.

[] BASK IN MY GLORY, Just as Planned
-[A Strong Foundation, A Blazing Sun, Social Butterfly, Grandfather, A Spoiled Brat, A Total Bookworm, Father, Lich Unlock]
Pros:
Satisfies most of the thread.
3 Heroic Passions to shoot us with
Maximum Xianxia escalation

Cons:
Satisfies most of the thread
Marginally breaks game balance
Shitty Compromise Vote Option

...

3/10 For effort. Troll harder next time :V
 
It is the least, when taken on its own.
But we haven't.

We know diagrammatic magic is the most versatile and quickest to master, with high level cultavists being almost as versatile.

We want that flexibility, then the strength. So that we have options quickly, rather than options near the end game.

I'm imagining diagrammatic magic as the size of the foundation we're building our cultivation tower on. The wider it is; the grander the resulting structure.
It's hilariously inefficient. Picking Spoiled without two personal action for it to buff, not taking Grandpa for protection, rushing to find the teacher when we explicitly paid to be able to learn on own and so on.

Thinking that Holy Grail of Diagram will manage to push you past compounded inefficiencies is hopeful at best.
 
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It's hilariously inefficient. Picking Spoiled without two personal action for it to buff, not taking Grandpa for protection, rushing to find the teacher when we explicitly paid to be able to learn on own and so on.

Thinking that Holy Grail of Diagram will manage to push you past compounded inefficiencies is hopeful at best.
The Lich is not useless even if we are able to develop our own spells. BASK has to literally reinvent knowledge of Diagram from scratch, slowing down Diagram because you have to derive literally everything from the very basics. Committing actions to fast track stuff later will make learning Diagram much faster since we can rely on the accumulated knowledge of centuries of mages.

It's like, people are theoretically capable of deriving math theorems, but no one person can in their life derive all of Trig and Calculus and Geometry from first principles on their own due the time (and commitment, and creativity, etc) it would take.

Relying on the Lich gets us fast track Diagram, which we lose the chance to get if we go BASK. Fast track diagram in turn gets us fast track cultivation due to Diagram having multiple strong, broken synergies with cultivation.
 
The Early Years, Part 2/2 + Stolen Away
Stolen Away

Abduction by cruel divinities into a desperate contest for the fate of an unknown world was not ideal, certainly. But he couldn't help feeling a bit grateful. Even a little bit fortunate.

Modernity. Despite all its wrinkles, a force for good. That was its inescapable weakness. Progress sought to empower the better angels of human nature, insisting that other impulses were irrational, anti-social, inhumane. The animal heart of humankind had grown cold and still in its concrete cage, its passions neutered and splayed, cuffed and collared to be displayed only when ceremonially important. Who didn't wish, from time to time, for an escape?

Somewhere along the way, and without even consciously deciding to, he'd given up his hopes of relevance, his resolution to someday matter. Relevance was difficult to grasp and dangerous to hold.

Corporate wage-slavery was easier, safer. And once he'd started it was difficult to stop, the momentum of early success morphing into the inertia of a securitized life. He'd learned to play the game, better than many, worse than some. You attached yourself to the coat-tails of a superior, as others were attached to yours, and the Great Chain of Being rose and fell as one unit. Feudalism with sharper metrics.

There was joy in the work, occasionally. In the dance of systems, every piece sliding into its perfect place, strength compounding upon strength to form a glorious engine of domination and provision. A grand, humming, monstrous constellation of paper and concrete and lies. To participate in its creation felt almost like meaning. But true participation had to be earned; when everyone was competent, ruthlessness was too often the deciding factor. He'd stepped over the ruined careers of the innocent, learned to defend himself from those who would do to him the same. In time, he realized he lacked the stomach to go further.

There were those who didn't play, too oblivious or disgusted, but they never rose at all. Pounded flat by the pressures of the market to become another perfectly-formed capitalist cog in the machine.

He'd lie awake at night, wondering if half his soul had drained away without his ever noticing. There were things he could do - he could spin life's wheel, move to a different country, throw his existence into upheaval - but he was too much of a coward, or perhaps merely human, or perhaps simply too 'sane' ever to consider them seriously. He did not have all that much, but it still felt like too much to lose. His body was young, his mind was strong, but the spirit that animated them had all but shriveled away.

Even decadence was but a warm anodyne hum that further emptied him when it ended. He felt shame at his ingratitude, at his taking modernity's comforts for granted, but to do otherwise felt like constricting one's self in a blanket of lifelessness.

A miserable existence, but that was the past, and he was never, ever going back.

To fight with these beings, for these stakes. That was his life now. Failure meant a fate worse than death. Inexplicably, he couldn't stop smiling.

Show me this new world of yours.

---

"Hey Dad, have you thought of a name yet? Zhengyi's going into labor."

Yong Shen, the Unbroken World, Titan of the Elements, Dragon of the Primordial Earth and undisputed ruler of billions, sat stonily at his desk, writing implements untouched. His expression betrayed nothing, impassive as the stone of a mountain. The game state was critical, he would not falter here.

"...Dad?"

It was customary, of course, for grandfather to name grandson. And one could not defy custom without good reason. But neither a worthwhile name nor a worthwhile excuse came to him. His mind was completely and utterly blank.

Fine, then. Time to improvise.

"The boy shall not be named."

His son frowned, eyes sharp. Shen turned around so that his expression - immaculate, but why take the chance? - could not be observed.

"You... can't think of a name?"

Shen gave a cold harrumph, unleashing the minutest fraction of his cultivation base. The world trembled. Outside, clouds blotted moon and sky, thunderbolts puncturing the night. "The boy shall remain nameless, begone!"

"You actually can't think of a name." His son chuckled, wiping blood away from his mouth. "Dad, it's okay."

To think that the weapon he had raised would one day be turned against him... "Of course it is. It is as I have just decreed."

"We'll just call him 'Do you know who I am?! I'm Yong Shen's favorite grandson! Now beg forgiveness and I might spare your life!' They all introduce themselves like that anyway."

Despite himself, Shen emitted an amused grunt. "'Beg forgiveness and I might spare your life.' A good name."

His son shrugged. "Let's just see how long we can get away without naming him. It'll mess with his head, heh."

"Yes, make it so," He agreed. "Better yet, make it seem like one of your ploys. Leave them scrambling to discover what we mean by it."

"Seem?"

---

The Early Years, Part 2
Last time, the winning vote was [X] Just As Planned. Your available options have been adjusted accordingly.

Pick 1 Mentor, 1 Focus, and then 2 of Either. (4 total)

Foci:

[ ] Cultivate - This Focus may be repeated up to three times. Each time raises your Cultivation by one full stage, potentially more if you have Cultivation-improving Mentors.

*Benefits and drawbacks should be self-evident
*You really should be Cultivating by this point
*Unlock - Baenlixnaire believes there may be a stage Beyond the Great Circle of Ego Barrier, but before the stage of Organ Refining is reached. Perhaps it is wiser to wait... but can you really afford further delay? (Take Cultivation no more than once. Only relevant if you have at least one Beyond point.)

[ ] A Way With Words - Focus on your father's teachings, especially his methods of personal manipulation. Also improves skills of perception, self-discipline, negotiation and charisma.

*Progress improves with Father Mentor option

[ ] A Harmless Fixation - Focus on your father's teachings, especially his methods of plotting, scheming, improvising, and indirectly arranging for events to turn out in his favor.

*Very difficult to master, high chance of only imperfectly absorbing lessons.
*Progress improves with Father Mentor option
*Substantially less effective if "A Way With Words" is not taken
*Grants 1d3 Mastermind points.

[ ] An Archmage's Legacy - While you cannot practically reach the uttermost heights of Diagram Sorcery in so brief a period, impressive progress can be made. You will rival the great geniuses of the Diagram Schools in attaining the title of archmage before your twentieth year.

*Requires Mentor: Baenlixnaire
*Requires construction of an Artifact improving your facility for Diagram Magic, diminishing you if you do not Cultivate sufficiently. This damage can be healed, but will slow your Cultivation temporarily.
*Enables Diagram-Artificer and Diagram-Naturalist interactions
*Fearsome versatility or substantial power can be yours, but gain Heroic Passion: Vengeful. A wizard is both subtle and quick to anger.
*You do not need to take this to improve in Diagram magic, Baenlixnaire will substantially improve you on his own

[ ] A Throne of Stars (Req. An Archmage's Legacy) - What is not practical, may still be achieved. With ingenuity, cunning, ruthlessness, and hate. Rather than forging an Artifact improving your Diagram Magic, craft an Artifact to facilitate a necromantic soul-merger between yourself and Arch-Lich. Then, hollow out his willingly-donated essence to forge a true Object of Power, Artifice capable of elevating your combined Diagram prowess to unglimpsed-of heights. The resultant Artifact-Phylactery shall be a horror and wonder for Ages to come. See that you are not parted from it, lest you be sundered in twain.

You will be bound utterly to the cause of the lich's vengeance, though free to act otherwise. However, your personality will be influenced by the procedure. You will not turn evil, though you are likely to become significantly more unpleasant.

*Utterly wretched act renders you Cursed by the world (removed A Charmed Life)
*Pseudo-lichdom renders you nigh-impervious to pain, biological needs
*Partial access to Baenlixnaire's spell list (incl. 11th Rank Diagrams), many of which are caster-only enhancements
*Incredible power which can only be further amplified by future Cultivation
*Near-unlimited potential for further empirical development of Diagram - Cultivation - Artifice interactions
*Gain Heroic Passion - Arrogance, Upgrade Heroic Passion - Arrogance to Heroic Passion - Hubris, Gain Heroic Passion - Hatred, Gain Heroic Passion - Brooding, Gain Drawback - A Lich's Vengeance, Gain Drawback - Phylactery Tether
*Girls will be drawn by your aura of Brooding Mysteriousness, amplifies the effects of A Social Butterfly
*If you have a Beyond Point before the close of the vote, you may mitigate the downsides of this option by expending it

[ ] A Serious Ordeal - Through intense self-control and meditation, remove your Heroic Passion - Spoiled

*Now that you are older, changing your personality is a bit harder.
*Strengthens the will and molds the self

[ ] A Social Butterfly - Though you've the life experience of an adult, you've also the impressionable mind of a teen. Frolick and play with your sycophantic friends and try to establish some genuine personal connections among your peers.

*Develops natural charisma, acquire 1d4 Lackeys
*Increased effect if A Way With Words is taken
*Develop useful connections for later
*May develop romantic entanglements that are inconvenient with your future plans

Mentors:

[ ] Mother, Violet Reaper

Name: Yong (nee Xie) Zhengyi
Cultivation Stage: Great Circle of Dao Cleaving
Age: 277 (apparent age: mid-20s)

(Former) Assassin Princess of the White Orchid Sisterhood, the Blood Violet, the Violet Reaper

*A soft-spoken and icily perceptive woman who is rather distant to you, her only child. She expresses her affection through diligent tutoring and stalking.
*A great beauty, she is naturally suspicious of those around you. May scare some prospective friends away.
*Seemingly tireless patience masks an explosively violent temper
*Incredibly skilled infiltrator, assassin, and combatant
*She will teach you the Way of the Sword, dramatically improving your combat skills
*She will teach you the Forbidden Poison techniques of the White Orchid, useful in many situations
*Now that you are somewhat grown, she will teach you the Forbidden Cultivation techniques that allowed her to reach Dao Cleaving at a young age.

[ ] Father, Lord of Vermin

Name: Yong Liefang
Cultivation Stage: Grand Solipsist
Age: 473 (apparent age: mid-30s)

Strategy Officer of the Yong Clan, the Vermin Lord, Spiderweb's Center, the King of Games, (self-proclaimed) Lovable Rogue

"Personal power's reliable, but shallow. Life's too short to depend on something so boring."

"Hoodwink a man once, scam him for a day. Convince him your dealings are fair, scam him for a lifetime."


*For centuries, Yong Liefang bamboozled the world into believing he was a pompous, spoiled incompetent who lucked into every milestone of his improbably successful career. No one that lazy could be so successful!
*Brother of the Yong clan's current Patriarch, Yong Shang
*Frighteningly good at board games
*The first son of your grandfather's seventeenth wife
*A charming buffoon who somehow ends up on the winning side of every conversation and transaction he participates in.
*Despite never bothering to cultivate, he has somehow ended up in the Reality Forming stage
*Now that you have a strong intellectual foundation, he will give you semi-practical advice in developing broad competence.

[ ] Grandfather, the Unbroken World

Name: Yong Shen
Cultivation Stage: Ascendant Titan
Age: At least 5,010

First of the Titans, Titan of the Elements, Dragon of the Primordial Earth, the Old Mountain, the Calendar, the Cycle Incarnate, Labyrinth-Builder, Dream's Ending, the Unbroken World, Dao Reserve of the Yong Clan, the Marquis of Yong

"Why, I'm just a simple old man. What could I teach such a grand genius as yourself?"

*As a Titan, he is automatically one of the top four experts in the world. As the eldest surviving Titan, it is unknown whether he or the Emperor is truly the strongest.
*The original Patriarch of the Yong Clan, he is now retired and serves as the Dao Reserve (hidden trump) of the Clan.
*Very bad at board games
*Famed for his legendary Heavy Counter technique, against which all esoteric arts are broken through the brute force of the world.
*He will teach you about Cultivation and, now that your competence is established, the secret history of the Empire.
*Improves Cultivation a variable (random) amount and improves future Cultivation efforts.
*Last chance to get Grandfather's Cultivation-rate improvement and possibly to learn the secret history of the Empire.

[ ] Baenlixnaire, Diagram Lich


Name: Baenlixnaire (formerly: Mage-Lord Conciliator Adros of House Bane)
Diagram Rank: 11 of 11
Attainments: Archmage, Arch-Diviner, Arch-Necromancer, Chronarch
Age: 4,357 years, 4 months, 16 days

"There is nothing about you that I do not despise. Our interests, however, are aligned. The gods thought they could discard us as chaff. Vengeance does not so easily die. Through you, I will mould the Diagram into a spear through Heaven's heart."

*Seventh greatest 'surviving' master of Diagram magic
*Mysterious, yet full of hatred
*His eyes see Fate, he knows much
*He knows too much, he must die
*Blames the Divinities for the downfall of his people, sees Cultivators as nothing more than irrelevant lackeys / toys of the gods

In general, Mentors grant powerful connections and unique opportunities, whereas Foci provide more personal development overall, even if you do develop into a spoiled brat.

---

Many options have hidden synergies!

For active discussion and fanworks, vote on one bonus:

[ ] +1 choice for this vote
[ ] +1 Mastermind Point (2 Mastermind Points can sometimes be converted into 1 Beyond Point)
[ ] Safely kill off Baenlixnaire after four years (unnecessary w/ Throne of Stars)
[ ] Clues to the Heroine's Identity

Please format your votes in Plan structure.
 
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And it gone,sigh I guess we reduce ourselves to edge master again.

What the point to avoid Nameless and curse then come back at edge again?
 
Yes. Baen has literally all the foci we want. Chronarch + Diviner +others... he's nearly a dream mentor. Pity he has to die.
 
I am embarrassed by just how much A Throne of Stars tempts me. It will be painful to vote against it.
 
And it gone,sigh I guess we reduce ourselves to edge master again.

What the point to avoid Nameless and curse then come back at edge again?

1/3 of the Lich-enabled options makes you substantially edgier, that's hardly edgy at all!

I don't expect the thread will be willing to swallow all the disadvantages of Throne, even if it does all but guarantee Chronomancy before 18.
 
A Way with Words improves everything about our communication, capitalising on every benefit we have. The self discipline is good for mitigating spoiled to some degree.

Mastermind Points are possibly a way to retroactively (?) declare we've schemes our out some plan or something, they sound good.
 
To be fair, if he gets what he wants, we still lose. His vengeance would still end the Age.

Certainly, vengeance must be taken, but it must be precise in its execution. Take his power, but his cause must be taken with caution.
 
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*Unlock - Baenlixnaire believes there may be a stage Beyond the Great Circle of Ego Barrier
'You thought there were only 9 realms? Fool! Through the super-secret cultivation technique that somehow noone has discovered until know, I'll access the secret 10th realm of Ego Barrier and be forever beyond the reach of the plebs!'
*His eyes see Fate, he knows much
I seriously want this. The first step to manipulating something is to at least see it. Hardly a silver bullet, but it's a start.
 
[X] Plan Old People
[X] Cultivate
[X] An Archmage's Legacy
[X] A Throne of Stars
[X] Grandfather, the Unbroken World
[X] Baenlixnaire, Diagram Lich
[X] +1 choice for this vote


I am going to be somewhat irritated if we gave up Cultivation for Diagram magic, and people are unwilling to go all in on Diagram magic.

Though I could be convinced to drop A Throne of Stars to try and get that extra hidden Cultivation.
 
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[ ] Cultivate
[ ] An Archmage's Legacy
[ ] A Serious Ordeal
[ ] Baenlixnaire, Diagram Lich
 
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