Vote closed
Scheduled vote count started by Academia Nut on Mar 25, 2025 at 12:10 AM, finished with 82 posts and 41 votes.
 
IMO Becoming an independent Chaos Warband Xianxia Sect should also be workable?
That's going to be quite a ways down the road, though... and we'd have to be in good standing with at least one of the interstellar power groups... which, effectively, means being in good standing with at least part of Chaos.
 
That's going to be quite a ways down the road, though... and we'd have to be in good standing with at least one of the interstellar power groups... which, effectively, means being in good standing with at least part of Chaos.
I think we would need to be useful for all of them, in the really long term, there is that major daemon of chaos undivided called Vashtorr, who is currently trying to become a chaos god of technological innovation and may even be a minor god already, if one so small that he can enter real space, so demigod might be a better description.

He basically avoids the fate of Be'lakor by being too useful to get rid of, owning the forge of souls and basically acting as an arms dealer for all the chaos gods.

So while if we start a sect, we can likely just be allied to a minor faction of chaos, maybe even travel the eye of terror if we picked that as our cultivation location, if we ever grow significant, it would mean we would need to start be too useful to get rid off.

It isn't impossible, cultivators probably have great potential as super elite forces, potentially more elite than space marines, but it is worth keeping in mind.

We would probably also be able to go to the tau, less resources, but also less atrocities and we can probably become pretty big stone in their empire by being their local chaos expert, and those suckers are really not wary enough of warp stuff.

Cultivation should fit right into their worldview as a way to control and understand the warp, while their own biological shortcomings mean they can never actually replace us.

They are attacked by the nyds by the 40k millennia, who might be good cultivation resources.
 
The Tau... might be possible. It would matter if they're pre-deity Tau or post-deity Tau, though. It's also going to be a heck of a lot harder than going Chaos, and it would involve a lot more oversight. We'd be hard-pressed to get the Tau to like or trust us, at least partially because if we're not just utterly lying to them, then the "Chaos corrupts" thing is going to come out, and... well, we probably would wind up corrupting the local Tau to a degree.

Honestly, I think that holding out hope for the Tau ending is a mistake. It's a thin sliver of a chance, and it's one that Yon wouldn't even know exists. If he knew it existed, he wouldn't be particularly interested in it. Trying to turn him into someone who might conceivably Go Tau at some point is going to involve, in essence, refusing to be well-adjusted. That's not going to be good for him. There's a good chance that it winds up with him being dead before he can make any sort of switch.

Basically, the only real reason to go for the Tau Ending would be an entirely OOC gut-level reflex of Chaos Is Bad, and... honestly, this quest is going to be much better as a quest and a lot more fun if we play it as this kind of weird form of cultivator/cultist who is being Chaos but not horrible and still being Chaos. Trying to play it as Oh God Anything But Chaos Quest is pretty much just trying to ruin the kind of cool thing that it already is and turn it into something that's... honestly a lot less interesting.

Further, given the way that it's constructed, It seems pretty clear to me that working with Chaos is pretty much what's supposed to happen int eh QM's plan. Saying, in effect "We hate this quest premise. Give us a different one." is likely to kill QM engagement... which will kill the quest itself shortly thereafter. I personally don't hate this premise. I'm interested to see where it's going to go. Now, I don't actually know the QM's plans. It's possible that we'll be offered a clearly-marked offramp at some point in the reasonably near future in grand xianxia style... but I really don't expect it.

I think that "wind up being a semi-independent organization in the Chaos sphere by being generally useful" is a very real possibility if the quest manages to get that far. I expect that there's a lot of ground to cover between here and there.
 
It seems pretty clear to me that working with Chaos is pretty much what's supposed to happen int eh QM's pla
I am not sure? Unless the QM said this is outright what he wanted, I personally saw the chaos band more as starter enemy, first introduction with the galaxy, with the actual quest being a cultiavtor, aka, doing xianxia things, like attacking a waaagh to snort the boss highest quality mushrooms.
Basically, the only real reason to go for the Tau Ending would be an entirely OOC gut-level reflex of Chaos Is Bad,
Pn our first outing we saw something that wouldn't look out of place in some of the worst afterlives Yon heard off, although it wasn't the absolute worst fate he has heard off, before that he showed disgust at filth.

I am not sure chaos is bad isn't a justified gut reflex, difference between us and Yon is that Yon only barely started seeing chaos, and his reactions seem to imply to me the gut reflex is already developing.

I think trying to pretend one can control or use chaos is the thing that brought the fall of Magnus, who was certain that all his skill and power would allow him to mess around chaos, you can not win the game, it is rigged, you might be able to be part of a more chaotic faction, in so far that people use magic freely, bind demons and so on, but the thousands sons also did it, and many gotten corrupted in the process.

Maybe chaos itself wouldn't be completely horrible, but if you try to pretend the gods are going to let us be moderate in our vices should us or our close friends worship them, that we can treat with demons the same way we could treat with a human or eldar or similar', you are wrong, any "control" over chaos is temporary.

So I can see us living in the eye of terror, with the confirmation that cultivation is mutation based, I would be much less wary about chaos stuff, as long as we aren't dumb about it, I can see us having trade deals with chaos factions, but if you don't want to go full evil, trying to play on the side of the gods isn't likely to go well, not without a conviction so strong that you can be confident to enter a mind battle with a greater demon and be certain to win, because the chaos guys who mess around chaos without falling are the kind of guys who can be so certain gods and demons aren't real that demons suffer pain in their presence.
 
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I am not sure chaos is bad isn't a justified gut reflex, difference between us and Yon is that Yon only barely started seeing chaos, and his reactions seem to imply to me the gut reflex is already developing.
Yon has lived on a demon world all his life. He's only just started to see this incarnation of chaos - the seamy slum-town that offers cheap thrills to the enlisted men. He didn't particularly like what he saw here, but he wasn't exactly reacting to it with shock and horror.

I think trying to pretend one can control or use chaos is the thing that brought the fall of Magnus, who was certain that all his skill and power would allow him to mess around chaos, you can not win the game, it is rigged, you might be able to be part of a more chaotic faction, in so far that people use magic freely, bind demons and so on, but the thousands sons also did it, and many gotten corrupted in the process.
I think that we were born and raised in a world where people were successfully controlling and using Chaos for countless generations, and profiting well thereby. There are risks in Chaos Cultivation, but they are risks that Yon knows well, and knows how to avoid - mapped out by the countless generations before. People absolutely do win that game. The society of his birth is built on it. They become powerful, and then more powerful, and then they ascend and become more powerful still. Yon knows nothing of the Thousand Sons, but he absolutely does know about the more powerful cultivators in his own sect... and to the degree that "corruption" occurs, it's obviously a pretty manageable issue, as long as you don't do things like "screw up while trying to push through a bottleneck and burn your soul as fuel".

Even if we assume that this is a universe where Ferrus Manus existed and that his story was more or less as it was in the original, he was experimenting with a source of power that he did not understand well. He screwed up and suffered for it. Yon, on the other hand, is walking some very well-trodden roads.

Maybe chaos itself wouldn't be completely horrible, but if you try to pretend the gods are going to let us be moderate in our vices should us or our close friends worship them, that we can treat with demons the same way we could treat with a human or eldar or similar', you are wrong, any "control" over chaos is temporary.
There is an issue with your understanding here. Yon already worships them. He has something resembling a spiritual practice, and it recognizes and reveres four very specific gods. He offers rot to Nurgle. He smells Khorne on the wind and has an understanding of what that portends. It's the same faith that pretty much everyone else he knows from the sect follows. It seems to be pretty transactional. The gods didn't hate moderation back when Yon was doing it down on the planet and worshipping them. Why should they hate it up here on the ship? With respect to that relationship, nothing has changed.

As far as treating with demons... well, I'm sure it does have its risks. I'm also sure that Yon has some idea of what those risks are. It seems likely that his reaction is something like "I leave that to the specialists. It is foolish to do otherwise." or "Everyone knows that that's really unsafe unless the Ascended is from your own clan." or something similar.

As for "control"... have you met our protagonist? Like, one of his core life skills is in knowing how to be a useful, valuable, nonthreatening minion that doesn't make waves. His reaction to actually meeting a demon is almost certainly going to be some manner of propitiation and/or groveling because that's what you do with existences that are that high above you. There's a decent chance that he knows distinct preferred groveling styles for the different possible kinds of demon out there... and that they don't differ all that much from how he'd grovel to a much higher-tier cultivator who hadn't ascended quite yet. He is going to be internalizing chaos energies and taking them into himself to fuel his own growth, and that he will control, but those techniques are tested and known. Those are going to work just fine.

So I can see us living in the eye of terror, with the confirmation that cultivation is mutation based, I would be much less wary about chaos stuff, as long as we aren't dumb about it, I can see us having trade deals with chaos factions, but if you don't want to go full evil, trying to play on the side of the gods isn't likely to go well, not without a conviction so strong that you can be confident to enter a mind battle with a greater demon and be certain to win, because the chaos guys who mess around chaos without falling are the kind of guys who can be so certain gods and demons aren't real that demons suffer pain in their presence.
I'm not sure what you mean by "play on the side of the Gods" here. Depending on what exactly you mean by it, my reaction could be anywhere from "well of course that's obviously stupid and we shouldn't do it" to "but Yon's already doing that, and doesn't particularly have a reason to stop".

Yon is quite certain that gods and demons are real. His reaction to encountering a greater demon isn't going to be a will-war. It's going to be dropping to the ground and offering obeisance to this entity who can wipe him out in a moment if it wishes to. He's going to do everything he can to placate that thing in the hopes of not having it destroy something he cares about before it leaves. If he's very lucky, it may be pleased and/or amused enough to offer him some boon before it goes, and he'll have the fun of trying to figure out how to properly exploit that boon without having it break him... much as protagonists do from time to time with fortunate-but-risky encounters in xianxia.

I mean, the way I figure it, if you live in the eye of chaos, and you're using Chaos-themed powers and resources (which our cultivation is and does) as part of your schtick, and you're providing goods and services to the legions in a way that contributes usefully to the war effort, then "independent" just means that you don't have a specific direct superior. You're still pretty clearly part of the faction overall.
 
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The Du Clan looked relatively relaxed, so presumably their missing ancestor had undergone ascension
This seems to imply Cultivation is powerful enough to allow a mortal to become a Daemon Prince. The Du clan is just one of many powerful clans in the Sect and there are 3 other equally powerful Great Sects. Any world that produced so many Daemon Princes should not be seen with such disdain by the Traitor Legions that conscripted Yon.
This world is heavily inspired by 40k but it has many differences as well. Basing our choises on meta knowledge regarding 40k might be a mistake.
 
I was chatting with the QM briefly in PMs recently, and he indicated that when he drops a meow on a post, it has a particular meaning. Might be interesting to try to figure out what.

On a completely different topic, I note that after these three days of liberty, we are out of Basic Training. It's possible that that means we're get our arming serf and our signing bonus personal slave at that point. Possible.

This seems to imply Cultivation is powerful enough to allow a mortal to become a Daemon Prince. The Du clan is just one of many powerful clans in the Sect and there are 3 other equally powerful Great Sects. Any world that produced so many Daemon Princes should not be seen with such disdain by the Traitor Legions that conscripted Yon.
This world is heavily inspired by 40k but it has many differences as well. Basing our choises on meta knowledge regarding 40k might be a mistake.
We don't know that they're turning into Daemon Princes. Given the mechanism, it's pretty strongly implied that turn into daemons of some sort. Given the quotes, some of them turn into free-willed daemons and others into mindless daemons. There's no guarantee that they turn into daemon princes, though. In particular, the elders who'd been meditating in their caves (just on step from ascension) were still massively overwhelmed on a spiritual level by the Celestial Envoy. We don't know exactly what he was, but he seemed pretty clearly to be more than a single step up from them.

As for disdaining the world... the Drill Sergeants were disdaining the outer disciples, sure, and they were certainly disdaining the mortals of our world, but the inners were getting some degree of respect, and presumably those higher got more. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if the recruitment was much heavier in the lower ranks than in the upper. We don't actually know if they disdained the world in general. Also... they were drill sergeants, at boot camp. A degree of disdain is to be expected, especially with a chaos overlay.

That said, I wholeheartedly agree that we shouldn't be too wedded to the idea that this is original-form WH40K. We haven't yet seen strong evidence that it isn't, but... well, he's pulled one swerve on us already, you know?
 
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just on step from ascension
Did it state they were step away from ascension? Meditating in a cave is pretty common xianxia thing.

It is usually very common in middle levels like nascent and sometimes core formation (although admittedly, nascent is sometimes a step before ascension and sometimes just halfway ip the realms), unless stated otherwise, meditation doesn't mean much.
 
Did it state they were step away from ascension? Meditating in a cave is pretty common xianxia thing.

It is usually very common in middle levels like nascent and sometimes core formation (although admittedly, nascent is sometimes a step before ascension and sometimes just halfway ip the realms), unless stated otherwise, meditation doesn't mean much.

The quote is as follows:

Beyond the masses of 'regular' disciples and the elders, there were also the old monsters out from their meditations. Their presence served as a weight upon the senses, their bodies so stuffed with spiritual energy that just being in proximity to them weighed upon the soul. They were all universally unique entities, each a carefully cultivated individual. For those who used the gods as templates for their paths, there were some similarities, but each remained singular.

Most notable among the old monsters though were the spots that were empty, the allies and clans giving some clue as to the reasoning. The Du Clan looked relatively relaxed, so presumably their missing ancestor had undergone ascension, but for the Lyrin, Qui, and Ryu Clans their expressions told a different story: ego death. The nightmare of all who strove for the heavens, it was the worst possible outcome. Stalling in the climb for ascension meant eventual death, but trying to push through a bottleneck the wrong way could lead to one's own soul being consumed to power the next step, leaving behind a being of tremendous strength and no intelligence or will.

So this group is treated collectively, and not described as having particularly significant differences in total cultivation. Meanwhile, since the last time the elders were dragged out of their cultivation caves, one of them ascended, and three of them broke bad.

Functionally, they are all so close to ascension that Yon cannot distinguish their power levels from each other. I'm sure that you can find "well it might not be" nitpicks in there, but I'd say that the overall feel that it was evoking is pretty clear.
 
The quote is as follows:



So this group is treated collectively, and not described as having particularly significant differences in total cultivation. Meanwhile, since the last time the elders were dragged out of their cultivation caves, one of them ascended, and three of them broke bad.

Functionally, they are all so close to ascension that Yon cannot distinguish their power levels from each other. I'm sure that you can find "well it might not be" nitpicks in there, but I'd say that the overall feel that it was evoking is pretty clear.
Another thing to point out is that not all greater demons are born equal, there are psykers who are significantly stronger than the "average" greater demons.

Yon also mentioned those that based themselves on gods, so it might point to your idea that chaos moderation is possible long term, since I struggle to imagine a Khorne cultists sitting in a cave for decades or centuries without at least trying to regularly killing or fighting something.

So cultivators seem capable of controlling themselves even while dedicating themselves to a god, maybe all the ones who are too weak of will to control themselves never reach high enough, or their control over their mutations allow them to guide how it influences their mind.

I am kind of curious what is done with the mindless failures, are they in the warp or do they keep them around as weapons.
 
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I was chatting with the QM briefly in PMs recently, and he indicated that when he drops a meow on a post, it has a particular meaning.
The response on my post definitely meant 'meow'. I speak cat.
Or this is a multi-cross and Yon is heading off to fight Protoss soon.

Overall, I'm not sure what clues to the setting people are expecting to find when we've only briefly seen the inside of a Sect of questionable morality and a chaotic boot camp. We aren't going to see the bigger picture until the picture is visible.
 
Another thing to point out is that not all greater demons are born equal, there are psykers who are significantly stronger than the "average" greater demons.
...and that just feeds into the "we shouldn't make assumptions too quickly based on WH40K meta" thing. Specifically, WH40K is really, really inconsistent about a lot of things. So even if it should happen to be the case that this quest is based on WH40K lore exactly, with no deviations or altverse or anything... it's based on the QM's own idea of what "canon" is - the sources that he chose to pay attention to, the lines and specific datapoints that he found particularly compelling, and the conclusions and explanations that he drew from it all. To the degree that the meta knowledge you build in your head happens to differ from this, it is incorrect for this purpose.

...because I'm seeing sources that are claiming that Greater Daemons are basically the most powerful tools that Chaos has to throw around, bar none. I'm sure that there's something official saying that somewhere.
 
because I'm seeing sources that are claiming that Greater Daemons are basically the most powerful tools that Chaos has to throw around, bar none. I'm sure that there's something official saying that somewhere.
I mean, is abaddon weaker than random bloodthirster #24532?

Is abaddon stronger than a demon primarch?

Greater demons is too wide of a spectrum to say anything in canon, I am sure they are largely the best chaos has, unless you count this one guy who can implode worlds, or that guy who possess anyone who kills him or…
 
I mean, is abaddon weaker than random bloodthirster #24532?

Is abaddon stronger than a demon primarch?

Greater demons is too wide of a spectrum to say anything in canon, I am sure they are largely the best chaos has, unless you count this one guy who can implode worlds, or that guy who possess anyone who kills him or…
This thing you are saying does not in any way undermine the point that I was making.
 
The curse of having a really cool scene but then not sure how to cap it off and you're feeling under the weather at the same time as you get a few awkwardly timed shifts at work.

Next update soonish. Maybe not a voting update, but almost certainly something for tomorrow.
 
Liberty 2 New
Tonight's Episode: The Writer's Barely-Disguised Fetish

[x] Plan Mellow
-[x] Ask the bartender for a drinks menu, and spend some real quality time reading it, looking for interesting things. Ask pertinent questions about what the drinks are, how they are made, where their ingredients come from, and so forth. Try to fit that all into your understanding of alchemy, if applicable. Try a few of the more interesting-sounding ones, using Iron Kettle Belly to both get the most benefit you can out of them and manage any negative side effects. Do not be afraid to decide that something "is not to your taste" if it seems like it's going to do thngs to you that you'd really rather not experience. Don't let yourself get significantly impaired.
-[x] Spend a bit of time watching dancers gyrate, far enough back that you won't harsh the buzz of any of the really frenzied onlookers. Relax a little. It's important not to screw things up, but this is an opportunity to relax, and your superior may take it poorly if you refuse to. If you can get into any interesting conversations with others who are similarly inclined, all to the better. Be amiable, and let them do most of the talking.

Yon was out of his depth here and really only had a vague idea of what to do. He just sort of watched what the instructors did before he approached the bar to order something. While not exactly a stammering pubescent, he still had a time trying to control where his eyes were roaming when the bartender approached.

It wasn't just that she was all but totally naked, it was that she was aggressive in proclaiming it from top to bottom. Her hair was cropped into short, spiky tufts that became almost arrows that pointed to the studs and rings that adorned her ears, eyebrows, lips, and cheeks. Abstract, branching and bladed tattoos curled away from the corners of her mouth to wrap around her neck. While some branches went down her back or wrapped around her arms, the ones that went across her front curled seductively around her breasts and plunged towards her groin in a way that forced the eye to follow. She was lithe, her breasts small but lifted up by chains that rain along the underside and connected to barbells that pierced her nipples, the tension held by rings that pierced her skin just above the collar bone. Her stomach was tight and flat, her primary tattoo flowing around the sides so that a Symbol of Diverging Unity with unequal arms could be drawn around her belly button. The only cloth on her was a loincloth that was held in place not by a belt but by piercings along the hips and waist.

Yon tried very much to not stumble over his words as he said, "I'll get something good for getting the night going."

The bartender looked him over a few times before she said, "One panzershrek coming right up."

Yon watched with interest as the woman went through an elaborate ritual preparing a drink. She got several bottles down from the shelves behind the bar, flipping them about in a way that both showed off her skill and made her jewellery flash in the light of the establishment, all towards the goal of mixing together a number of pungent smelling liquors. Eventually she plucked a small package off the shelf and popped it into her mouth, her cheeks and throat bulging strangely. Setting a tall glass on the bar in front of Yon, she pulled out a large metal spoon with elaborate slots running down its length, carefully balancing it on the rim of the glass. She smiled broadly before opening her mouth wider than should be possible and sliding out an anatomically improbable tongue, which of course had barbell piercings along its great length. Near the back the folds of the muscle took on a distinctly yonic cast, complete with what was definitely a clitoris, which of course had a ring adorning the hood. The object the woman had swallowed was revealed to be a little block of brown solid wrapped in paper, which she had skillfully unwrapped with her tongue. Adroitly she used the prehensile appendage to deposit the solid upon the spoon, before she started to dribble the liquor she had been mixing upon the block. Straightening up, she continued to pour but pulled out a lighter.

Whipping her tongue back into her mouth and throat, she grinned and said, "Hit," as she ignited the stream of liquor. The little brown lump quickly came apart between the alcohol pouring over it and the fire melting it. Once the material had dissolved away enough the bartender flicked the spoon away with an elaborate flourish while pouring a clear liquid into a shot glass.

With another grin she said, "Cook off" as she dropped the shot into the still burning drink, which erupted into a fireball. Once it had calmed down enough she pushed the still burning drink over to Yon. The smell was something else, vaguely herbal with an atrocious acrid tang mixed in.

Still, Yon just shrugged and downed the drink in one go, wiping away the burning liquor that adhered to his lips. The taste was atrocious, an almost random mix of herbal notes with an intensely bitter overnote and aftertaste, which was of course then set on fire. As a drink Yon was fairly certain the intent was to best the bravery of the drinker while also possibly seeing if they could survive a heart attack. For an alchemist like him though, he found a few things interesting as he processed it all.

One, the quality of their liquor distillery was quite good.

Two, the special ingredient was almost pure physical yang essence, even if it was lacking in spiritual essence. He was rapidly coming to the conclusion that the Celestials had mastered exoteric alchemy to the point that mortals could benefit on a massive scale, even if they reserved their esoteric secrets for their own uses.

Three, there was slightly more spiritual energy than usual in this realm, and it was spread evenly throughout the drink. Given the speed of mixing, if it was any singular ingredient Yon should have detected the differences. While it was possible that all the ingredients were above baseline but very close to each other, it was far more likely that the act of mixing the drink constituted a Little Ritual - something that was repeated so many times over so many thousands of years that it carved a groove in reality and allowed a little bit of spiritual energy to leak through enacting it.

All in all, from an alchemist's perspective it had been a thoroughly enlightening experience.

The bartender just stared at him, blinking owlishly in stunned bemusement as if she was waiting for something, before she declared, "By the Gods, you're supposed to blow it out first! And you're either blessed by the Grandfather, the Prince, or both if you're not puking your guts out now!"

Ah. Right.

Just because militarily the Celestials found outer circle disciples about equal to mortals didn't mean that Yon wouldn't stand out with his abilities. Already a crowd was accumulating as the preparation of the drink had drawn attention and Yon's failure to keel over now made him the centre of attention, and the instructors were laughing in glee.

Now what Yon?
[ ] Spend the rest of the night trying to be invisible
[ ] Drinking contest!

AN: Going to try to write a couple of short updates like this in quick succession
 
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