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Empire of the Emerald Stars (Legend of the Five Rings)

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horngeek said:
I flat-out don't think the Sould would choose someone like that, though. I like Imperial Ties because we can use measured pressure to negate the blood in the water risks.
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It's not a matter of 'would the Soul choose someone like this?' and more 'why would the Soul choose someone like this?' and that has potential for an awesome narrative. Our guy was a professional soldier, he never expected to rule, and he doesn't know why he's being called to stand for the task and that makes him more nervous than he cares to admit. So in response, he does what he does best- prepare for war in the days ahead.

It posits a question to both the character, the reader, and the faction we're playing as: why is Hiraku Shiba the man needed to oversee the Phoenix? And that gives Maugan a lot of fun potential to play with other than 'the Isawa played with things man was not meant to know and we need to clean it up'.

Edit: would exchanging 'hero of the people' for 'paragon of Bushido' help ease your concerns?
 
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I personally don't so much see the appeal. We just got our face kicked in, so it's time to go to war?

Blood in the water is mitigated by the fact that we're far enough down right now that attacking us starts being pretty dishonorable. Half the point of war is to gain honor, and picking on the little guy gives very little - especially when we have precious little left that they can take without starting to drive us out of existence. Now, if we do attack someone, they're well within their rights to come back and tear a chunk out of us, but that feeds into why I don't really want to play double-or-nothing on the "war" option.
 
Karugus said:
It posits a question to both the character, the reader, and the faction we're playing as: why is Hiraku Shiba the man needed to oversee the Phoenix? And that gives Maugan a lot of fun potential to play with other than 'the Isawa played with things man was not meant to know and we need to clean it up'.
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There's also "we need to rebuild", "how do we stay pertinent in an empire when we are one of the least populous clans", and "there are dark tidings ahead, we must prepare". There are plenty of options here. It doesn't have to be just "Time to war with the other clans for land and glory - now, the Phoenix version!"
 
Sirrocco said:
There's also "we need to rebuild", "how do we stay pertinent in an empire when we are one of the least populous clans", and "there are dark tidings ahead, we must prepare".
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Maugan Ra said:
Well, the Phoenix are kind of at war with the Unicorn right now. Something about a Phoenix contractor installing cheaper components in one of their ships than he was being paid for and pocketing the difference. So probably not them.

I mean the war is probably about to end because 'we killed your Champion' is a decent enough pretext for the Unicorn to say that honour is satisfied. But still, they're not likely to trust you for a while.
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We're still technically at war- it makes sense for a wartime leader to be selected. And this is still a humiliation that we need address regardless. And the people who will have the most disregard for our utter failure in the war so far also happen to be the guys my build specifically is well respected by. It counters the loss in honour and glory to an extent that getting our shit pushed in by the Unicorn is doing. Yes, we can end the war and pretend everything's alright, we can embrace the pacifistic ways of our clan, or we can demonstrate that despite our pacifism, the Phoenix are not some weak clan you gut because they gave you faulty ship parts.
 
[x] Plan: First, look within

I agree with Sirocco. Military expansion is meaningless if your economy cannot support and sustain it.

Karugus said:
We're still technically at war- it makes sense for a wartime leader to be selected. And this is still a humiliation that we need address regardless. And the people who will have the most disregard for our utter failure in the war so far also happen to be the guys my build specifically is well respected by. It counters the loss in honour and glory to an extent that getting our shit pushed in by the Unicorn is doing. Yes, we can end the war and pretend everything's alright, we can embrace the pacifistic ways of our clan, or we can demonstrate that despite our pacifism, the Phoenix are not some weak clan you gut because they gave you faulty ship parts.
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I would argue that this demonstration is not something you can do by way of immediate responses. Instead, it is better to create a facsimile of peace and use it as a cloak to conceal true intentions. Yes, it's a very Scorpion way of looking at things, but it is unwise to be extremely ideological.
 
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Sirrocco said:
There's also "we need to rebuild", "how do we stay pertinent in an empire when we are one of the least populous clans", and "there are dark tidings ahead, we must prepare".
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And all of this is somewhat addressed by my build through the somewhat unconventional lense of Hiraku. How do we rebuild? By exhorting war indemnities from the Unicorn. How do we remain relevant? Get a bit more territory and develop the shit out of it. How do we prepare for the dark days ahead? By militarizing and readying the legions.

It's supposed to be a radical departure from what is expected of the Phoenix while at the same time admitting such a departure is going to cause friction. It's strictly not the optimal build, we'll clash with other clans and the traditions of our own, but we get the opportunity to do something radically different from the norm while still comporting with the ways of the Phoenix, and that's really cool for a character. Naoto's odd degree of Honour despite still being a phenomenal Scorpion was a big part of what made him unique instead of 'just a really good scorpion who was in over his head'.

Well done character conflict can only be a good thing. Hiraku isn't supposed to be a Hard Man making Hard Decisions and overturning the traditions of his Clan, but it's the weird place where he knows he was chosen for a reason, and the only reason to choose him is for military purposes even if that's somewhat at odds with the nature of his clan.
 
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Crasian01 said:
I agree with Sirocco. Military expansion is meaningless if your economy cannot support and sustain it.
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Maugan Ra said:
+ Most technologically advanced of all the Great Clans
+ Greatest proportion of Shugenja in the empire, leading to vastly increased magical might.
+ Provinces tend to be very well developed, especially in Learning and Piety.
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I think we can afford it. Or we can set up trade deals for our tech so we can afford it.
 
[X] Plan: From the Ashes, Fiery Vengeance.

[X] Male
[X] Hiraku

[X] The Elemental Legions. The Phoenix do not often go to war, but when the need is great they hold at their disposal some of the mightiest Legions in all the Empire. You commanded one of these Legions, and as such you have an impeccable understanding of military tactics and the respect of many of the Empire's more martial Clans. The craft of peace, however, is not one that is overly familiar to you...
[X] Hero of the People. You are beloved by the lower classes, and find all of your dealings with them to be much easier and more productive. As a Champion you might only rarely find this coming into effect, but the worth of even the humblest soul should never be discarded outright.
[X] Blessing of the Seven Fortunes. Something about you has drawn the attention and subsequent approval of one of the mightiest of all the fortunes, and they have showered you with their blessings.
- [X] Bishamon
 
Seriously despite my plan being fairly unconventional, and let's be frank- one dimensional it covers a surprising amount of bases.

Trade? Lions always need weapons, and I'm sure the Crab wouldn't mind some more trade and magical support.
Developing any new provinces we acquire- the Kaiu would be fantastic for that.
Courtly intrigue? We'd at least see a degree of support from the Ikoma, and that's not bad by any means.

Mantis suddenly find a pragmatic militarist they can deal with as opposed to a bureaucrat who shares none of their ambition.

Hell, you want allies? Send an honest, sincere letter to the Crab about our fears over what our selection means in the days ahead for Rokugan and our determination to prepare and you've got a pretty stalwart ally right there.
Prove the might of our fleets and we have the respect of the Lion which isn't something to be discarded relatively.

Most of all, it suddenly makes the Phoenix more relatable to the other Clans because we're (from their perspective) just doing what a greater clan tends to do- expand and seek glory. We go from 'Magic users and the tech experts who can't handle the heat' to 'the guys who are great mages and techies, don't fuck with them without a good reason'.

Seriously, our prowess is so poorly regarded the Unicorn felt safe kicking our shit in and killing our champion because a Phoenix mechanic was corrupt. That's some deep level of contempt there.
 
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Karugus said:
Seriously despite my plan being fairly unconventional, and let's be frank- one dimensional it covers a surprising amount of bases.

Trade? Lions always need weapons, and I'm sure the Crab wouldn't mind some more trade and magical support.
Developing any new provinces we acquire- the Kaiu would be fantastic for that.
Courtly intrigue? We'd at least see a degree of support from the Ikoma, and that's not bad by any means.

Mantis suddenly find a pragmatic militarist they can deal with as opposed to a bureaucrat who shares none of their ambition.

Hell, you want allies? Send an honest, sincere letter to the Crab about our fears over what our selection means in the days ahead for Rokugan and our determination to prepare and you've got a pretty stalwart ally right there.
Proof the might of our fleets and we have the respect of the Lion which isn't something to be discarded relatively.

Most of all, it suddenly makes the Phoenix more relatable to the other Clans because we're (from their perspective) just doing what a greater clan tends to do- expand and seek glory.
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I agree with your reasoning good sir you get an informative!
 
[X] Plan: From the Ashes, Fiery Vengeance.

From what I understand, and from the situation the clan just came through, building up the military is a priority.

We just came out of a war, our already small army has already been downsized, our territory is significantly more vulnerable
and this is rokugan.

Someone suited to that task should be paramount here, as diplomacy will only get us so far, and from what the former quest taught us, there isn't much point relying on others clans/factions being passive when there's an ripe opportunity and in this case that means the extortion of phoenix lands, technologies and magic while they are recovering from the loss of their leader is an definite possibility.

All in all, this plan just make sense on so many levels, and I'm in complete agreement with the justifications presented
 
what number of clans should we have in our bloc maybe 3 or 4 depends really if we have a strong alliances bloc we won't be attacked by the other great clans
 
Seems a bit strange to go from choosing the smallest, least warlike clan to a plan for development by conquest. Would have made more sense to choose Lion or Unicorn if that was the playstyle we wanted.

[x] Plan: First, look within
 
Seventeen said:
Seems a bit strange to go from choosing the smallest, least warlike clan to a plan for development by conquest. Would have made more sense to choose Lion or Unicorn if that was the playstyle we wanted.
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I'ts not about a conquest victory, or being flat out warlike. It's about what choosing that option implies, and part of it's specifically because how it's so incongruous to the Phoenix. I'm not saying we should become the Lions but with more tech and magic, I'm saying that we're kinda a joke outside of tech and magic and that has worrisome implications.

Hikaru is supposed to be a bad Phoenix, the whole point of him is that there's the open ended question of what issue to come is so outside the Phoenix scope of expertise that someone who's not an embodiment of the phoenixes' ideals is needed to command. It's as much for narrative purposes as it is for mechanical. It's not about being a warmonger, or conquering new lands it's about what happens when the Phoenix's military puts their axe to the grind and why they felt the need to do that.

Sorry about the double post, let me edit things real quick.

Personally, I'd like the Mantis, the Crab, and maybe some ties to the Lion if we can manage it. We're not a diplomat, we're not going to have some grand alliance moving in common cause. We're going to try and be creating a bloc that shares some common cause and have general reason to work together.
 
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