Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
- Start date
- Crossover
[X] Dominus
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[X] Genetor
[X] Dominus
[X] Genetor
[X] Genetor
[X] Genetor
I feel a bit bad not to give her what she wants. However, here's my justification.
1) We don't have the resources required to build an army of battle robots. We do have, and I hate putting it this way, the human resources to receive genetic enhancement, and we know how to relatively easily get more of them.
2) Given the interval between being able to safely offer people mutations, it's best to start granting and then reverse engineering them sooner rather than later. @Yzarc, would my earlier idea of having Fan stack mutations we think can be reproduced with biotech with the task to pay back the debt being to allow rigorous testing and reverse engineering until the next mutation is applied be allowable? If so, how much testing would it required, I.e. how many mutations could we give the volunteers in a turn?
3) With the Wound still open and us not having developed the higher level Mechanicus rituals I'm about leery about the possession risk of combat robots.
3a) Because IIRC the Mechanicus' solution to the possession risk was to use bits of human brains to make 'biochips' as part of the not-AI controlling them. Without significant genetor skills to clone brain tissue, there's only one easy source of brains nearby…
4) We're going to want to get on with unification soon, and if we want a carrot along with a stick a suite of genetic enhancements for future allies/subjects is a good one.
5) I'm not sure how much difference this makes, but having a massively genetically augmentated population from nearly the beginning might make it easy to continue the rollout later as we expand.
6) Perhaps a long shot, but it might make my proposal to use VEE to give our tribespeople Followers, Allies, and Spies from other tribes more likely to be possible, if our people appear as peak/transhumanly capable fate might be able to twisted to produce outcomes that otherwise wouldn't happen.
7) A very long shot, but I wonder if it's possible to tap/channel the Emperor's legend by having Lorgar follow in some of his foot steps. Leading bioengineered transhumans to unify the world is certainly doing that.
8) And a last but potentially interesting one, if we get AMIx2 it's possible we can create a blueprint of Lorgar. We almost certainly can't reproduce Primarchs, but if we make Thalassa a Genetor Savant alongside a Savant in whatever other disciplines the Emperor used to derive gene seed from samples from the Primarchs, perhaps it might be possible to get access to space marines early.
I feel a bit bad not to give her what she wants. However, here's my justification.
1) We don't have the resources required to build an army of battle robots. We do have, and I hate putting it this way, the human resources to receive genetic enhancement, and we know how to relatively easily get more of them.
2) Given the interval between being able to safely offer people mutations, it's best to start granting and then reverse engineering them sooner rather than later. @Yzarc, would my earlier idea of having Fan stack mutations we think can be reproduced with biotech with the task to pay back the debt being to allow rigorous testing and reverse engineering until the next mutation is applied be allowable? If so, how much testing would it required, I.e. how many mutations could we give the volunteers in a turn?
3) With the Wound still open and us not having developed the higher level Mechanicus rituals I'm about leery about the possession risk of combat robots.
3a) Because IIRC the Mechanicus' solution to the possession risk was to use bits of human brains to make 'biochips' as part of the not-AI controlling them. Without significant genetor skills to clone brain tissue, there's only one easy source of brains nearby…
4) We're going to want to get on with unification soon, and if we want a carrot along with a stick a suite of genetic enhancements for future allies/subjects is a good one.
5) I'm not sure how much difference this makes, but having a massively genetically augmentated population from nearly the beginning might make it easy to continue the rollout later as we expand.
6) Perhaps a long shot, but it might make my proposal to use VEE to give our tribespeople Followers, Allies, and Spies from other tribes more likely to be possible, if our people appear as peak/transhumanly capable fate might be able to twisted to produce outcomes that otherwise wouldn't happen.
7) A very long shot, but I wonder if it's possible to tap/channel the Emperor's legend by having Lorgar follow in some of his foot steps. Leading bioengineered transhumans to unify the world is certainly doing that.
8) And a last but potentially interesting one, if we get AMIx2 it's possible we can create a blueprint of Lorgar. We almost certainly can't reproduce Primarchs, but if we make Thalassa a Genetor Savant alongside a Savant in whatever other disciplines the Emperor used to derive gene seed from samples from the Primarchs, perhaps it might be possible to get access to space marines early.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
One mutation for a year and a day of testing. Stacking mutations would result in cross contamination. More on this IF that option wins.
Ah, the idea of stacking mutations was to deliberately get that 'cross-contamination', so we could build up a growing package of mutations reverse engineered as a single compete genetor treatment, so they didn't conflict with each other when there wasn't Exalted magic applying them, to produce an eventual complete transhuman treatment.
Unfortunately it looks like that would take about thirty years to get a really full set of the good plausibly natural mutations. Still, it presumably wouldn't be costly to have that ticking away as a very long term project in the background, just a handful of uses of VEE every year (to get a sample population rather just one).
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- Location
- India
[X] Genetor
[X] Dominus
- Location
- Russia
[X] Genetor
Having a carrot for the future meet with the Emperor would be nice
[X] Dominus
That said, there should be a Man of Stone on the planet and having a Dominus might help with them, both in "hide them until we have a better solution" or "fix if there's anything wrong there and then replicate results" way
So I'm fine with both options
Having a carrot for the future meet with the Emperor would be nice
[X] Dominus
That said, there should be a Man of Stone on the planet and having a Dominus might help with them, both in "hide them until we have a better solution" or "fix if there's anything wrong there and then replicate results" way
So I'm fine with both options
I'm not sure that being a Domitor Savant would help with a true AI.
They're quite different. A combat robot has a biological 'brain' in charge. Augmented by lots of computers that allows the Magos Dominus to exert direct control, but there's a bit of an animal (or person) in there which there isn't for an A.I.
Combat robots are on the far end of the servitor spectrum rather than the near end of the A.I. spectrum.
They're also big and expensive, having a strong resemblance to space marine dreadnaughts.
I don't think it's a carrot for the Emperor. It's a carrot for our potential allies during the unification of Colchis and when Lorgar goes out crusading.
If anything, it's something that the Emperor doesn't need to be told about. Not hidden, just not made a big deal of. Then we can keep it as something that compensates for Lorgar's other disadvantages on campaign.
The Empire probably has comparable genetic implants, but what it very likely doesn't have is the complete coherent package that works harmoniously together that we can create by the time the Empire turns up if we keep plugging away at it.
They're quite different. A combat robot has a biological 'brain' in charge. Augmented by lots of computers that allows the Magos Dominus to exert direct control, but there's a bit of an animal (or person) in there which there isn't for an A.I.
Combat robots are on the far end of the servitor spectrum rather than the near end of the A.I. spectrum.
They're also big and expensive, having a strong resemblance to space marine dreadnaughts.
I don't think it's a carrot for the Emperor. It's a carrot for our potential allies during the unification of Colchis and when Lorgar goes out crusading.
If anything, it's something that the Emperor doesn't need to be told about. Not hidden, just not made a big deal of. Then we can keep it as something that compensates for Lorgar's other disadvantages on campaign.
The Empire probably has comparable genetic implants, but what it very likely doesn't have is the complete coherent package that works harmoniously together that we can create by the time the Empire turns up if we keep plugging away at it.
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- Location
- Arcadia
Hm, one would favor Cordantor and Logis above all others. However, at the very least, since she herself desires Dominus first and foremost, she should be accommodated if possible.
[X] Dominus
[X] Dominus
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The question is where she's going to get the several tonnes of processed hypertech materials she needs to make a combat robot, along with the wide range of hyper tech tools needed to turn them into the required mechanical and electronic components plus manufacture the biological parts somehow without a genetor skill set.
Even worse, even if we can somehow miraculously get the materials, a giant multi ton walking humanoid is a terrible option for the desert terrain we're in. They're good for urban combat on a forge or hive world with reinforced floors. Not somewhere they'll sink into the sands.
This is a sequencing question. It's very unlikely we'll have the resources to make a combat robot for many years. We can probably start reverse engineering genetor treatments from mutations the next turn, and we also have the Ambuls as biological heavy infantry units. As far as I know there's nothing we need combat robots to fight on Colchis (the only major enemies are likely daemons which are the worst opponents for a combat robot), they're incredibly triggering for 30K humanity so would undermine our diplomacy, which seems a terrible idea when we're allied with the social primarch.
The Genetor option has really good synergies with our charms and resource base. Basically all we have is people. The Dominus option is likely to go unused for several years, and quite possibly until the Emperor arrives in a few decades. This is something that whole Forgeworlds can struggle to find the resources to manage.
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- Location
- London
[X] Dominus
[X] Genetor
[X] Dominus
