Those look good if we are allowed to use them, I would probably replace the garlic one and the touch of frost with them. Both would be a minor social pain.
Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
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Those look good if we are allowed to use them, I would probably replace the garlic one and the touch of frost with them. Both would be a minor social pain.
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Ah, so many things to offer, yet so many of the other Primarchs will be uninterested at best.
Oh, well. One would be content with Lorgar and Magnus becoming best friends as a start. Who cares if they are not popular with most of their brothers?
Oh, well. One would be content with Lorgar and Magnus becoming best friends as a start. Who cares if they are not popular with most of their brothers?
The problem with that is Magnus is kind of an idiot, I do not want to be tarred with the same brush when it comes to warp safety as him since that brush is made of the eye-lashes of flirtatious daemons when it comes to the Thousand Sons.
The impact of getting him to make a Wish that can be interpreted to grant the Judge's Ear and Common Sense merits…
I will admit that's kind of true but it's also completely untrue Magnus like every other being that isn't omniscient has to work off the information that he has set him up poorly. He's knowledgeable and acts in a competent manner in the most cases up to and including trying to get to Terra to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayal but when you don't know all of the information you are bound to make choices that have unforeseen consequences and inherently every factor of his life up to and including the fact that Tzeencth is fucking with him at every step means he never really has enough despite studying and working and trying to get more information at every juncture.
On some level Magnus is the Primark who would benefit most from cracking open crafts worlds and studying all of their lore to get a more complete picture of what psychics are capable of and what the consequences of those actions can be inversely he's the Primark least likely to do that simply because Magnus if you read a lot of the Horus heresy books is a fucking bleeding heart despite being a conquering tyrant. Even when already corrupted by chaos when he lands on Terra he's still trying to preserve people's lives and not destroy things indiscriminately.
Unless the Eldar attacked him first he would never bother trying to break them apart and no other force in his life would want him to try and take their knowledge whether that be chaos or the emperor so he's just left kind of a lurch.
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See I do not think those two things are connected. Cruelty is not a necessary, nor even particularly good way to do rational inquiry. I take issue with his common sense or lack thereof not his compassion.
The best way to learn things from the Eldar is to talk to them. He is a super wizard with a super wizard army, promise them soul stones for teaching. Most of the eldar population in 30K is desperate refugees who do not know how to keep their souls safe.
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I'm more saying that his Common Sense based on the information he has is seemingly correct. There's a massive caveat there based on the information that he has.
The reason I said cracking open craft world is because the Eldar would never give a jumped up Mon-Kai their information ever. It doesn't need to be cruelty to take it from them but that's the only way he could ever get it he would need to take it from them and unless they attack him first he would never try to.
The fact that him getting information would massively increase his knowledge base would fuck over chaos (Tzeentch) intently so they don't do anything that would possibly engender the craft worlds moving in on Magnus, the emperor just doesn't want Primark consorting with xenos even if it's only in their information. As well as the fact that Magnus because he won't attack them first they'll never try to make a preemptive attack on him like they do some of the other Primark.
Why crack open? Craftworlds are trading ships of a dead empire, filled mostly with desperate refugees? Why not talk to them? Why not make them offers of his enormous psychic might and army of wizards? He could probably harvest a ton of soul-stones in the Eye. Yes, yes Eldar are disdainful of humans, but as is shown in canon time and again they want to not get their souls eaten far more than they want to lord over the Mon'Kegh.
As for what Magnus did being common sense from his perspective... no he even ignored the warning signs of his own adoptive planet's psychic traditions, the one the Chaos Gods themselves hand picked to send him to I will remind you. This was as good of a place to turn him as any in the galaxy and even they thought making deals with daemons was a bad idea
From what little we know, Magnus had cordial relations with the Eldar he encountered.
All the more so it would have been reasonable for him to try to get psychic lore off them by diplomacy.
How much information is that worth because that is a trip directly to the eye of Terror. I don't doubt that you can negotiate something with that it's just that is a real ass and I don't know how much information you would need to get to make it worth it to try and take a deep dive directly into the asshole of hell. Though that is a good point that is pretty much the only thing I can think of that they would trade for and man you could probably get a high price for it, I just don't know how much you would need it to make that worth it.
Though didn't they learn from or by studying the tutillaries that were on their planet that were demons that immediately started trying to eat them the second the space wolves showed up. The planet was chosen on purpose they were not dissimilar to the Interex demons suppressing their want to consume The Souls of Mortals just long enough that their Overlord gets what they want.
His soul and the souls of his sons, that is what he had to gain. Anyone with the vaguest gasp of the Eldar Empire's history as a galactic empire spanning back 65 million years on their power and understanding of the Warp. Realistically and looking at their achievements IC (not that GW likes to show it) the Eldar at their height should make the Emperor looks like a particularly bright caveman who skipped the steps all the way to learning iron forging. Even the broken remnants of that lore would be worth far more than one could gain from any other material source and most of the galaxy agreed that material sources were safer.
I meant what would the Eldar be willing to part with as far as knowledge goes to Magnus that would make it worth actually diving into the closest thing to literal hell there is. On some level you're right but on another level the Eldar literally were a lucky caveman got to skip all the steps and just kind of sat on a legacy of a species that actually did all the work. Then there's the fact they are massively reduced from that silver spoon status anyway so what shreds of Lore they have would need to be worth a lot to make a dive into literal hell worth it. Though I do not doubt they can have a lot of lore that would make it worth it.
I'm not making a point about power and worthiness, just about power and knowledge, that Eldar were that powerful and that knowledgeable. I would bet that is anyone in the galaxy could just fix the Flesh Change, just make it not a problem anymore, with some caveats and resource investments it would be the Eldar. Those are the stakes, soul stones for souls. But Magnus thought he could solve it on his own and Chaos lead him by the nose so we got canon.
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Hm, speaking of the Flesh Change, Sanguinius was not so different from Magnus where the Red Thirst was concerned.
I don't doubt the Eldar could do that I just doubt extremely they would be willing to. On some level the Eldar like anyone else tries to get the most out of a deal while giving the least and on some level their institutionalized view of lesser races means they tend to give a very obviously shorter end of the stick then what is necessary for the price they're asking and that tends to piss people off extremely and relatively quickly especially if those people think they could fight the Eldar which because they are no longer a Galactic Empire a lot of people can.
I do not doubt that Magnus with a good negotiation hand either on the Eldar side or his own could get the information necessary to undo the flesh change. He doesn't know that in Canon though as you have said they are just refugees aliens in admittedly interesting vessels but not particularly helpful towards his ends so in Canon he doesn't know that they have a massive history of psychic power, Knowledge and prestige he just knows that they are no longer relevant on a galactic stage, with the information he has on hand studying it and figuring out the flesh change is pretty much the only thing he could do.
On some level trading an eye for a momentary cure for the flesh change is about as dangerous as diving into a crone world I think. Never mind the fact that one of those definitively has a likelihood of destroying you mind body and soul while the other only costs an eye.
- Location
- Arcadia
Here, as in canon, Magnus' flaw is hubris. However, he can be taught better. He is open to learning. The entire point of such a quest is to change things, after all.
It is presumably going to be difficult enough with many of the other Primarchs as it is. Properly tempered, Magnus would be the best possible ally and friend as far as the Primarchs are concerned.
It is presumably going to be difficult enough with many of the other Primarchs as it is. Properly tempered, Magnus would be the best possible ally and friend as far as the Primarchs are concerned.
I think the Eldar would do just about anything to save their souls. As for the rest of it see 65 million year history of psychic empire, what they are refugees of matters. They were an empire that strode the stars when the Emperor's closest ancestor was an arboreal shrew-like creature. And for proof manifest of enduring capability... the Webway, Black Library included, the greatest store of psychic lore in the galaxy.
I think that some Eldar may have known how to cure the Flesh Change.
However, they may not be the same Eldar who lived on the Craftworlds.
The people who would very likely have been able to help were the ancients who ran the Haemunculi covens, and they were total bastards.
However, they may not be the same Eldar who lived on the Craftworlds.
The people who would very likely have been able to help were the ancients who ran the Haemunculi covens, and they were total bastards.
Isn't their tech purely material, divested of all psychic elements? The Flesh Change was/is pretty blatantly a warp effect. I think you would need at least some eldar psykers on that.
At some point Post-Fall, the Haemunculi reinvented their tech base to no longer be dependent on the user's psyker powers, after it was realised that using pysyker powers in Commorragh risked letting Daemons bypass the Wards and invade. Vect made the use of psyker powers in the Dark City a capital crime when he took over, but even after several thousands of years of brutal enforcement that doesn't stop all Dark Eldar from doing so, even if it's very hard to find someone to teach them how to do so relatively safely.
The Haemunculi alive during the Great Crusade would have been the survivors of those ancient Pre-Fall Eldar who were so bored of their existence that they wanted to transcend the limits of the Eldar body and soul, some to become gods of some kind, as some of the Dark Muses had done, and others just for the experience. These were people who'd apparently learned everything possible to know about both the Warp and the Materium.
Vect's ban hadn't happened by the end of the Horus Heresy, so while the Heamunculi would be greatly restricted in the use of their powers by the risk of Slaneesh eating from them if they used them too strongly or daemons invading their home if they messed it up, they'd still probably be able to use them to some degree, and could well have many millions of years of experience doing so.
They would have been probably the most knowledgeable people in the galaxy about the interaction of the warp, body, and soul.
They were the people who later discovered how to reclaim the Eldar ability to resurrect, how to extract a soul from Slaneesh's clutches so it could regrow from a sample of their body
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OK, you've convinced me. Add 'kidnap Homunculus' to the list of places to get good warp lore. I'm sure Fan will love it. 🧐
Is anyone interested in making a spy chief Akuma as well, not a spy, a spy chief? I was thinking about someone with
- Socialize 5 (4 BP) just because that is a good part of his day job
- Bureaucracy 5 (6 BP) since that is the other half of his job
- Obtenebraton 1: Shadowplay for the extra dice of intimidation and also to be able to get.... (- 1 Discipline Point)
- Harbinger of the Abyss (+5 BP Flaw) which in this case would be helpful since it also reduces intimidation DCs against mortals by 2
- Vulnerable to Silver (+2 BP)... mostly because I cannot grab glowing eyes for even more intimidation
- Eidetic Memory to keep track of thingss (-2 BP)
- Auspex 2: Aura perception, because it helps with reading people (-2 Discipline points)
- Dominate 5... this keys off intimidation. Mr Spy Chief here would be rolling 9 dice at -2 DC to mind control people and that is assuming we do not buff Fan's social Atribute next turn with how cheap it is now that Thalassa has Lore of Flesh