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Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)

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Ah, perhaps there is something that can be done to tip the scales in Philosopher's favor, then. Please let it be the Philosopher Aspect, so that at least one of Lorgar's Human Aspects is intellectual by its very nature.

Well, one is not enthused about Destruction currently being in the lead for the final Light Aspect. Hm, but then, as effort is required, perhaps Lorgar can undertake some action that will push Nurture to the forefront as the final Light Aspect.
 
Trexfromants said:
[X] Technocratic Dominion
Best thing
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There is something to be said for just being effective and with Chaos having to eat a-5 dice the main issue of the government (encouraging rebellion is inherently less of a problem). We might have rebellions, but it would not be the kind that come with tentacles. On the other hand though since rebellion is only going to happen in extremis we would have to deal with low level dissatisfaction and any issues that may cause for Lorgar, he is pretty mentally fragile when it comes to moral compromises.

Trexfromants said:
Lorgar won't be on Colchis forever
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He can just come back and fix it. We are an Defiler, if we do not have personal scale intergalactic teleportation cracked by the time we need it what are we even doing with our time? :V
 
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SouvikKundu said:
@Yzarc what we need to do to get Infinite light concept of Judaism or Luminosity/reflection of Buddhism aka Luminous mind concept for lorgar?
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You do not know how to unlock them but I have dropped hints. Also here is the list of aspects.

[Light Aspect]
-[] Illumination
-[] Intensity
-[] Destruction
-[] Reflection
-[] Speed
-[] Radiation
-[] Warmth
-[] Nurture
-[] Refraction
-[] Energy
 
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SouvikKundu said:
@Yzarc what we need to do to get Infinite light concept of Judaism or Luminosity/reflection of Buddhism aka Luminous mind concept for lorgar?
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That does not sound like an actual light aspect. Light has to be elemental thing, not metaphoric, not mystical, a thing you can actually do with actual physical light. You can nurture things with light, that is part of the food web for instance and you can destroy them, if you put enough power behind it. Light can illuminate and it does have intensity.
 
The concept is limited that way, yes. But how you make use of them is up to your ingenuity.
 
On a slightly different note, we have talked before about what various other primarchs would do with some of our more big ticket tricks like Enlightened Essence or Awakening their own Mythos via Rebel, but what about something more modest. Mind Partition allows Lorgar to take an extra action, he only gets one per turn base. This thing allows a primarch to do twice as much and it is only a Level 2 Gift. Especially for the more shamanically inclined primarchs like Rus and the Khan, but also Magnus because it is a kind of magic this could be a game changer... and one that does not require us to give up near as many of our secrets as some of the other things we have talked about.

All you need is a little Faith in the Machine God who has faith in you. ;)
 
Hm, as to getting the house in order, these tasks have not yet been addressed:

[] Train Special Forces Units:
[] Create Defensive Drones and Automatons:
[] Enhance Soldier Equipment:
[] Develop an Intelligence Network:

Some tasks from this turn are not yet complete. Lorgar clarifying his philosophy is going to take the most time, but on the other hand, it may be what is needed to tip the scales in favor of the Philosopher Aspect over Champion. Fingers crossed and all that.

As to the remaining ones, well, the intelligence network would probably be the objective of highest priority. There is no particular rush for the other three.

Otherwise, the house seems to be in sufficient order to prepare for wider projects, such as restoring the Ring of Iron and becoming a proper interstellar polity.
 
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[X] Democratic Republic

We've been going all out on buffing social options for the planet and this continues the trend

[X] Cybernetic Collective

I also love this. Natural evolution of Machine Spirits rights
 
Hm, as to the government types and how they correspond to Alpha Centauri factions:

Theocracy of the Enlightened would correspond to the Lord's Believers, led by Sister Miriam Godwinson.

Technocratic Dominion would be the University of Planet, as said before, led by Academician Prokhor Zakharov.

Democratic Republic would probably be UN Peacekeeping Forces, led by Commissioner Pravin Lal.

Military Junta would be the Spartan Federation, led by Colonel Corazon Santiago.

Anarcho-Syndicalist Commune would map to the Free Drones, led by Foreman Domai.

Oligarchic Council does not seem to have a clear counterpart.

Cybernetic Collective would be the Cybernetic Consciousness, led by Prime Function Aki Zeta-Five.


Of course, one could also try to map the government options here to government types in Stellaris.

Now, it finally seems to be the start of the 4X phase. One does love 4X games like Alpha Centauri and Stellaris.
 
[X] Democratic Republic
[X] Cybernetic Collective

On the balance of things Cybernetic Collective could also work well, especially if we enhance the population which we plan to and it will play into the Ad Mech holy world narrative which will give us more leverage on the Emperor. The Mechanicus is the only faction that even comes near to challenging him in power and we are going to need all the friends we can get. Also for human autonomy, just make the humans better.
 
DragonParadox said:
Also for human autonomy, just make the humans better.
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And one thing I'd emphasise is that this is something strongly in theme with what we've been doing all quest.

We've worked out how to enlighten people, we've uplifted Thalassa from mortal to demigod, we've encouraged Lorgar to develop a philosophy that promotes human transcedence, and we've invested Thalassa's action this turn on building gear that allows humans to compete with machine intelligences*.

I think picking this option will also encourage our population to embrace our philosophy as they strive to catch up.

The cybernetic collective might also allow things like radical forms of cyber-democracy.

And if T3 gear can grant T2 gifts when incarnated, then when we get a pipeline of priests of the Machine Priests established, we can probably get to the point where each Cyberbrain has a Machine Spirit that grants the Mind Partition Gift, and, ideally, becomes something like a lesser version of what Thalssa is, a union of human, machine, and machine spirit.
 
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Well, one is in luck regarding inspiration for cyber-democracy. With the Machine Age expansion, Stellaris has some interesting forms of advanced government for such things.

One will, for the time being, forego explaining the Synthetization versions of governments, since one would presume that the players collectively are not in favor of going the Necrontyr route of uploading into fully synthetic bodies.

However, in Stellaris, there are Cybernetic advanced authority types. It depends upon the authority type being democratic, oligarchic, dicatorial, or imperial. There is also a further subdivision of whether it shall be individualist or collectivist.

If one is only interested in the democratic authority type, then the Cybernetic advanced democratic authority types are Democratic Concurrency and Democratic Interlink.

Democratic Concurrency is the Cybernetic individualist democratic authority type. In its own words:

"Highly advanced neurosecurity protocols allow citizens to vote on policy decisions in real-time directly."


Democratic Interlink is the Cybernetic collectivist democratic authority type. Its description is:

"Consciousness interfaces allow real-time sharing of sensory data, emotional responses, and thought patterns between full cyborgs. As a safeguard against the sensitivity of intense extra-body responses, emotional firewalls filter out unwanted responses to shared emotive data packets."


Real-time e-democracy/digital democracy, in other words, even with the option to share sensory data, emotions, and thoughts in real-time, complete with firewalls.
 
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Tzaphquiel said:
Well, one is in luck regarding inspiration for cyber-democracy. With the Machine Age expansion, Stellaris has some interesting forms of advanced government for such things.

One will, for the time being, forego explaining the Synthetization versions of governments, since one would presume that the players collectively are not in favor of going the Necrontyr route of uploading into fully synthetic bodies.

However, in Stellaris, there are Cybernetic advanced authority types. It depends upon the authority type being democratic, oligarchic, dicatorial, or imperial. There is also a further subdivision of whether it shall be individualist or collectivist.

If one is only interested in the democratic authority type, then the Cybernetic advanced democratic authority types are Democratic Concurrency and Democratic Interlink.

Democratic Concurrency is the Cybernetic individualist democratic authority type. In its own words:

"Highly advanced neurosecurity protocols allow citizens to vote on policy decisions in real-time directly."


Democratic Interlink is the Cybernetic collectivist democratic authority type. Its description is:

"Consciousness interfaces allow real-time sharing of sensory data, emotional responses, and thought patterns between full cyborgs. As a safeguard against the sensitivity of intense extra-body responses, emotional firewalls filter out unwanted responses to shared emotive data packets."


Real-time e-democracy/digital democracy, in other words, even with the option to share sensory data, emotions, and thoughts in real-time, complete with firewalls.
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Any democracy we form is going to be sadly inherently limited by our allegiance to the Imperium of Man. That said the more democratic we make our state the more solid their loyalty will be to us since people will know they are fighting for their own interests and seeing as a significant amount of our power will come from Colshis and its industry that will matter quite a lot IMO.
 
DragonParadox said:
Any democracy we form is going to be sadly inherently limited by our allegiance to the Imperium of Man. That said the more democratic we make our state the more solid their loyalty will be to us since people will know they are fighting for their own interests and seeing as a significant amount of our power will come from Colshis and its industry that will matter quite a lot IMO.
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Why would it be limited by allegiance to the Imperium of Man nothing I've ever seen seems to suggest the greater Imperium has any ability or want to mess with the actual governing body of a planet Beyond will you pay the tithe yes or no?
 
Degorium said:
Why would it be limited by allegiance to the Imperium of Man nothing I've ever seen seems to suggest the greater Imperium has any ability or want to mess with the actual governing body of a planet Beyond will you pay the tithe yes or no?
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Because you have to obey the Emperor and you cannot democratically decide to tell him to go take a long walk off a short pier. That is by definition a limit on democracy. There is no getting around the personal rule enforced with copious amounts of propaganda. At the best of times the IoM is an military autocracy that allows some local delegation of power. Being forced to pay the tithe in resources is in fact not democratic, having to send out people to die in his wars even more so.
 
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[X] Cybernetic Collective

Yeah, I think I'll go with this. The World Soul is part Machine Spirit, so technically it'll make sure nothing corrupts happen, not to mention we're setting up the rumor mill with the Spirits which are directly connected to the World Soul.

Also, for some reason, this option leads me to believe this... Might help the World Soul grow?

That, and we're having the Machine Spirits have their own rights too and this (I think?) help integrates them barring those that know wished to be part of the Government since it's kinda RNG on which Machine Spirit is born from the items/equipment being made. Human and Machine Spirit working side by side? Like, wonder what the Mechanicus nearby will react to it?

...huh. Actually, I wonder.how they will react to it. Can we help that one person who was gunning for Fabricator-General over there?
 
DragonParadox said:
Because you have to obey the Emperor and you cannot democratically decide to tell him to go take a long walk off a short pier. That is by definition a limit on democracy. There is no getting around the personal rule enforced with copious amounts of propaganda. At the best of times the IoM is an military autocracy that allows some local delegation of power.
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That makes complete sense thank you for your time.
 
DiscordOxymoron said:
...huh. Actually, I wonder.how they will react to it. Can we help that one person who was gunning for Fabricator-General over there?
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We technically already did, Thalassa's old boss, he even knows we can make Machine God rites... though admittedly we have gone far, far beyond that. How he takes it now it hard to say, though one can hope that ambition and faith align to maintain his alliance with Lorgar's rising star.
 
DragonParadox said:
Any democracy we form is going to be sadly inherently limited by our allegiance to the Imperium of Man. That said the more democratic we make our state the more solid their loyalty will be to us since people will know they are fighting for their own interests and seeing as a significant amount of our power will come from Colshis and its industry that will matter quite a lot IMO.
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The thing is, if well managed the people will understand that we can't openly defy the Imperium of Man because it's too powerful.

As we can ensure that the decision makers/influencers who guide the development of the consensus are hyper-intelligent polymaths with Common Sense (the Merit) who Lorgar has brainwashed taught, then we can be reasonably confident that they'll ensure that the don't vote to pick a fight.

Thinking about it more, I think that the Cynernetic Collective is even better than I thought, because of the way it interacts with VEE.

We can grant people Influence or Fame dots with VEE, and that's very effective. We can also probably get the charm that can transfer Background dots, so we can make people less relevant to the collective decision making as well, if we need to.
 
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