Why would they pray to him? They do not think he is a god who can hear prayer, that is against the Imperial Truth. They just believe in him as a leader so hard they manifest anti-daemon resistance.
Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
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Why would they pray to him? They do not think he is a god who can hear prayer, that is against the Imperial Truth. They just believe in him as a leader so hard they manifest anti-daemon resistance.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Let me put it this way. Where does it say, "The Emperor is a god?" Where does it say, "They worship the Emperor?". They believe in him and it talks about them having Faith in the Emperor. Keep in mind that most SMs view the Emperor, even in 40K as their Spiritual Liege.
Where did you get the idea that the Emperor can "Hear Prayers"? Besides which, True Faith explicitly does not send out Prayers, regardless if the deity you worship is real. It is purely internal, so even IF they worshiped the Emperor, and IF he was able to hear prayers, he would not be bombarded by it from the Heralds because True Faith is internal.
Second, I reiterate, that they are using traits of True Faith and not deriving any power from the Emperor. In the last interlude, I hinted at this, and they were deployed only after Extensive testing.
Meaning both the Marines AND the Emperor had tested fully, what True Faith is before they were deployed against the Cults and daemons. So they know quite well, that the Emperor is not "Granting" them power.
Finally, I again reiterate. The above is a Propaganda piece from very early in the Crusade meant not for the General Public but the Soldiers and Politicians, where the Emperor still has not quite nailed down just WHAT true faith is, just that it helps greatly against Chaos and is internal as opposed to external.
I will not say more on this as I have hinted enough on what he is trying to achieve here.
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Wait a sec, weren't we planning to give Lorgar and Dharok both Biomancy 5 so they could take on baseline human shape for infiltration tricks? Might as well give them Biomancy 1 now instead of psy invisibility and precognition they are not going to use at this low a level anyway.
The thing is, the Nexrosphinx is very likely evil. That means that Dharok would have a x11 physical multiplier, Lorgar, by contrast; has a x5 multiplier. Dharok can also teleport. Lorgar can't. I just don't think that Lorgar can do enough damage. We're basically talking about enemies the size of buildings. The only people I think can are Dharok with his massive multiplier and Thalassa who has incredibly powerful ranged weapons.
Thalassa has to never get caught against any of the enemies she's facing. Any of the enemies can probably kill her with a single blow, but it's much easier for her to avoid the Warsphinx, as it's the slowest and least manoverable and has no ranged weapons. It should be basically impossible for it to catch up with her as she can teleport and has Extra Speed.
The Necrosphinx is an incredibly dangerous enemy. Dharok is much more suited to fight it. It's not about taking damage, at this scale; it's about avoiding it. Dharok is both much faster and can teleport.
The Tomb Scorpion, by contrast, is an ambush predator. We really want the person who fights it to have Precognition, to avoid surprise attacks. That's Lorgar alone. Thalassa's Preternatural Avoidance isn't enough.
Thalassa's heavy weapons are probably overkill against the Tomb Scorpion, but we really need them against the much larger and much tougher other constructs. Lorgar can probably kill the Tomb Scorpion with his power fist or a Melta gun, unlike the other constructs, as it's so much smaller and more fragile. We really want to be using heavy ant-tank weapons against the enemies the size of large tanks than against enemies the size of a small car.
I think you're focusing to much on immediate term survivability of taking a single blow and not on the fact that to survive to the end of the duel they need to be able to kill their opponents. Their ability to damage the enemy they face fast enough is key.
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Sure I think it is likely, it is assured that Lorgar has twice the health and more soak, also he actually rolls x7 successes when accounting for Solar Hero Style. Also push come to shove he knows Enuncia and rolls 12 dice for will. He can bring it down.
I do not think you can ambush someone in a cage match with a giant statue.
You're neglecting dodging though. With a x11 rather than x5 physical multiplier, Dharok is enormously less likely to get hit at all, even if he finds himself in a place where he can be.
As a teleporter, Dharok can also do thinks to teleport to stand on it back and punch it in the back of the head. Lorgar has to run around punching it in the ankle and hoping that somehow kills it
Dharok can also do hit and run attacks. Teleport in, punch it, then teleport back out of its range. Extra Speed plus Psychoportation is an amazing combination that's very, very hard for it to deal with as it does not have ranged weapons. Lorgar can't do that. He has to run around with a single action, meaning that if he's close enough to hit it, it'll be able to hit back.
This combination is a very big deal that makes it massively more likely that they'll be able to kill very powerful opponents like this. It's why I think we need to put the two people who have it against the two nastiest non-ranged weapon using enemies. What can they do about it apart from gradually die from getting whittled down?
Both Thalassa and Dharok have a very hard to counter way of just whittling the enemy down in a way they can't respond to. Lorgar cannot. He's much less capable of fighting this kind of battle than either of them, which is why he needs to go against the weakest opponent.
He probably can beat the Tomb Scorpion toe to toe in a way impossible for the others. If only because he can target a Vorien at the exposed sarcophagus in the centre of mass and kill the spirit that animates it.
You can when you're in a desert and you can swim through sand.
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10 dice +5 Successes x5... you can by WoD rules jump several stories high with that many successes. That is an average of 50 ft. straight up The thing is not 50 ft high. If he wants he can jump on it and pound it or he can just stand back and try talking it to death with his 12 dice of willpower. Or if it's that evil he can use true faith. And that is not even mentioning the fact that Lorgar can heal those 30 HLs of his if they start getting too low.
That hit and run tactic only works if the thing has only one action per round which I would not count on... and if it is too stupid to hold its action for a simultaneous attack which I really would not count on
Actually, looking at it in the video, the Necrosphinx may be 50 feet tall.
The thing about held actions is; hold an action to do what? If Dharok teleports in to the side of its head and punches it in the ear, it physically takes time for it to move. These things are fast for their size, but they're also incredibly enormous. What can it actually do before he teleports out, given it wouldn't how where to ready a blow to respond to, as the attack could come from anywhere, including a ranged attack with a Melta gun or a Melta Bomb being thrown.
Note, in game mechanical terms, what Dharok would be doing when teleporting out of its line of sight and then back to attack from a blind spot would be re-establishing surprise, which denies the enemy the chance to act in response in the first turn of the attack.
As a side note, Lorgar already has Biocontrol 3.
It does not look 50 ft tall, even if it were that just means he cannot just it in a single bound, he can still get on one of the power bits.
In game mechanical terms if you are in base contact with something it can punch you, you don't just get a new surprise round every round just because you have the actions to dash in and out. Also I am pretty sure magical stone from ancient lost civilizations empowered by the blessings of ancient gods does not burn, it's punching or magic
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@Yzarc first all I am more concerned about how normal population viewing Emperor seeing how Marine more or less worshipping him. I am not going to True Faith vs Warp or any other Debates. Rather how such event perceived by Population. I am mean they just saw a miracle no matter how propagandists try to present it as rational and no way supernatural or without any sorta religious undertone normal Imperial not just going to accept it in facevalue. I admit hard-core atheists will just accept Emperor's Propaganda because of their Bias but average Joe not going to do so. I am sure there will those who will see such events as proof of Emperor's divinity. Plus how People defeated or saved or under their control by 17th view such events where marines are invoking miracles though their Faith? They are not aware of Mental gymnastics Marines do. But they are seeing genuine supernatural situations despite Emperor's rationalist explanations. Will they not try to interpret event the way most human try to interpret like we do in normal situation?
Just to make summery my question was.
1. How Imperials viewing such events particularly when they experiencing them first hand?(eye witness account)
2. How Emperor not censoring those sorta events? He can do that just by removing any sorta supernatural references or removing any Mention of how Marines invoked miracles. I mean if there is no mention of invoking or miracles then it will be easier to brainwash Imperials believe more rational explanation.
3. how terrans are dealing with such events without direct experience and spoonfeed by Imperial Propaganda? Do they believe in Emperor's godhood or do they believe those are just psychic nonsense? How they view Heralds without a eyewitness experienc?
Just to make summery my question was.
1. How Imperials viewing such events particularly when they experiencing them first hand?(eye witness account)
2. How Emperor not censoring those sorta events? He can do that just by removing any sorta supernatural references or removing any Mention of how Marines invoked miracles. I mean if there is no mention of invoking or miracles then it will be easier to brainwash Imperials believe more rational explanation.
3. how terrans are dealing with such events without direct experience and spoonfeed by Imperial Propaganda? Do they believe in Emperor's godhood or do they believe those are just psychic nonsense? How they view Heralds without a eyewitness experienc?
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
They are not. The people are not exposed to any warp/daemon related stuff and when they normally meet them, they seem more Zelous and adhering to the Imperial Truth. The faith they have in the Emperor is not as a God but as their Leader. There are no overt religious over tones, more along the lines of, "Trust the Emperor, he knows best"
Because they are not Religious. People, Astarties and otherwise, are NOT worshiping him. They have strong faith that he knows better and will see them through. They have faith in him, not that they worship him. It is an important distinction.
You can have faith that things will go well. You can pray to god for things to go well.
One is different from the other.
As for mentions of Miracles, there are none? Beyond what is normally there in any Propeganda piece. Can you point out a few? Because as far as I know, there are mentions of Miracles in the sense that, "Wow I cannot believe that they pulled that off, it was a miracle that they did."
Then there is mentions of having Faith in the Emperor, not Worshipping the Emperor. Key difference.
Third? You Forgot Psykers. Psychic powers are a well known things and most of what does not come in the top are handwaved in this. Like the Anti-Psyker field. It was a Faith Miracle but handwaved as a Psyker power. It is also why a Psyker was highlighted. To point at this as a convenient explination.
This you do not know.
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Ugh, such devotion to the Emperor and Imperium is utterly nauseating. The entire propaganda piece exhorting the Emperor's "righteous glory" is enough to induce vomiting.
As soon as Lorgar reunites with his Legion, he should immediately set to work on weaning them from the Emperor.
As soon as Lorgar reunites with his Legion, he should immediately set to work on weaning them from the Emperor.
To be fair we are seeing this from the PoV of imperial propaganda, of course everyone is loyal. People are not stupid, even people in totalitarian societies like the Imperium are going to have their quiet doubts about the rightness of this or that policy. Only so many orphanages you can carpet bomb as a show of force or because there are aliens integrated into the society before you start empathizing with the orphans, not everyone maybe, not even chose, but some.
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@Yzarc was there changes occurred due to such collaborations between Legions? I mean are Heralds trying to imitate Ultramarine incase of statecrafting? What they do after they win? Just leave of do they try to reshape culture of that planet?
Are they Legion with greatest number of psykers after the sons?
Any info about their power in Psychic scale on average?
Are they Legion with greatest number of psykers after the sons?
Any info about their power in Psychic scale on average?
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Most of this you do not know, but yeah, they have the highest number of Psykers outside the Thousand Sons.
In game terms you can roll to restablish surprise every turn. It's just hard to manage if you don't have a good way of disengaging. And breaking their line of sightPaycoportaruon is that for Dharok.And it makes sense in fluff terms. It's hard for a giant construct to respond if the enemy is going all Nightcrawler on them.
Even with that, with multiple actions and being much better at dodging Dharok is much more likely to be able to dodge the Necrosphinx than Lorgar is, and it's quite possible that it does more than thirty ranks of damage at once. We'r talking about enough damage to splatter through multiple people with seven health levels in a single blow.
I'm pretty sure magical stone from an ancient civilisation can be carved up with Melta beams, because that's very similar, but worse, than the magical ceramite plates on the ten thousand year old daemon possessed tanks that the Chaos Space marines deploy have. Melta beams carve them up just fine.
Presumably, the second highest per-capita, and if they keep growing faster than the others (the Thousand Sons were always a small legion), they could get absolutely more.
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Hm, there is already a decent foundation for friendship with the Thousand Sons, however skewed the propaganda's telling of it is.
Once Lorgar weans his Legion off the Emperor, it will be even better. Besides, as a Defiler, Fan Morgal will surely have opportunities to bond with the Thousand Sons in their pursuit of knowledge.
It is also good that the groundwork has already been set for befriending Guilliman.
Once Lorgar weans his Legion off the Emperor, it will be even better. Besides, as a Defiler, Fan Morgal will surely have opportunities to bond with the Thousand Sons in their pursuit of knowledge.
It is also good that the groundwork has already been set for befriending Guilliman.
KnightofTempest
The Man who would be King
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Should this not be put in the sidestory tab?
It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the main story. . .
It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the main story. . .
I really doubt that thing does 30 levels of damage after soak from three but related perspectives:
A) It does not have heroic killing blow in Warhammer Fantasy, it does not do that in its native setting even if we are to assume that Random Empire Captain Hans is somehow as tough as a primarch and Heroic Killing blow is just a chance to kill a hero in one hit not a guarantee
B) 30 Damage after soak would mean 40 Damage before soak which conceptually would mean this thing would have to either have maxed out physical stats and Primarch level supernatural multipliers, or lower stats and even higher multipliers
C) It would be rather odd for a primarch, one of the demigods of the Emperor of Mankind not to be able to take a hit from large statue bound to a dead god seeing as what primarchs, including those with no psychic bullshit do to the Avatars of Kaine
If this thing is worse than a random Chaos tank at taking fire from mundane weapons, it should be worse than a random chaos tank at dishing out damage.
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Unless it's supposed to be a glass cannon? We don't know for sure either way. And there are other foes which are/can be on par with Primarchs, or even surpass them in physical abilities.
Krorks, anyone? High-end Daemon Princes (or the equivalents) maybe as well.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
This is canon but fair as it is not an interlude.
Magnus nearly got punked by being stepped on by a Titan I think,
And ability to deal damage doesn't reflect ability to ignore damage. You can eventually cut apart the armour on a Titan or void ship with a Melta gun, but their weapons would atomise an army or detachment of space marines.
On a smaller scale, consider a shadowsword tank. A squad of marines with Melta guns can kill it pretty easily if they get to it, but any marine hit with its weapon is gone.
This thing isn't a Titan though, those are like fortresses that someone built into a bipedal frame for some insane reason, this is just a big pile of magically animate rocks.