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Dungeon Crawler You!

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Toboe said:
Except for the first boss, did Leo ever have any trouble with killing mobs?
So, as long as we aren't hunting humanoids she shouldn't have any problems.
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If I remember correctly, Leo sleeps with Moose most nights because she can't sleep very well. Between the overall violence of the Dungeon (which is very different from the competitive athleticism that she used to engage in via soccer), the cruelty of the Alien Overlords, the fact that we're going to see more and more Crawlers with skulls, the fact that we may one day have to wear skulls of our own...

Sure, Leo might be (very much relatively) fine right now, but I have no desire to add more to her plate than she absolutely needs to. I know she's not some helpless infant, and that restricting Leo-the-character's agency in such a way would likely be found as infantilizing from Leo, herself...

But Leo, a hitman? Sure, we could probably play it close to "Pest Exterminator" or "Monster Hunter," but the Dungeon won't always be as pleasant as it has been these last few floors. They were the tutorial area. Levi was grave, morose, and final when he said we would encounter more and more Crawlers with skulls.

It's been dark, and it's only going to get darker. Teenager she may be, Leo is just a child. Let's protect her where she'll allow, and cast light where we can.

I don't want her to break.
 
[X] Combat Medic
[X] Democratic Senator
[X] Former Child Actor
[X] Medical Student
[X] Vegas Strip Magician
[X] Wizard Supremacist
 
Absolutely agreed on protecting Leo, but
RandomOTP said:
But Leo, a hitman? Sure, we could probably play it close to "Pest Exterminator" or "Monster Hunter," but the Dungeon won't always be as pleasant as it has been these last few floors.
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Would Leo the Monster Hunter put more stress on her than she would have without it? How would it be worse than her current role? What better class can we give her?

Considering how she is whenever Taylor tells her to be careful, do you think we can give her a support class like medical student (or other healer) or a back-line dd? She would revolt or develop cabin fever.
She isn't the "skate ahead, lure enemies" type because we asked her to, she is because we can't stop her, because it is the only way we have to channel her energy that she will accept help from the group.
As Hitman she can be active and mobile (fitting her demeanor) and we can argue for her to stay close when it comes to fighting because our abilities help her hide and because a Hitman isn't meant to start fights against groups on their own.

Or do you expect mobs will fall away and other crawlers be the only source of kills we have? Then your argument would make total sense.
 
Does Public Education Funding apply to all xp the same way as the Medical Student buff or is that only character level xp?
 
Toboe said:
do you have a policy on tally bot splitting votes? Currently some are voting for classes just with their name and some with "Class:" and then the name. Would you add both versions to get the real winner?
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My general policy is "don't make me think", meaning that if the votes aren't the same in the tally then it's not on me to match them up. So, no. With this vote:
Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on Sep 17, 2022 at 10:53 PM, finished with 61 posts and 16 votes.
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...Relentless Justiciar is losing to Local-Access TV Psychic, not tied with it.
 
eaglejarl said:
...Relentless Justiciar is losing to Local-Access TV Psychic, not tied with it
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...Ok, so I actually need to ask now, since Actor is apparently one of the leading options.

What is the list of Classes available for the Character Actor Benefit? Is it the Classes he actually earned here, meaning it's absolutely worth struggling through the process of keeping him alive to stack partial benefits from several of the leading options? Is it purely generic classes available to literally everyone instead of being affected at all by his popularity and achievements, and thus definitely a waste of what he's earned? Is it partially influenced by his actions, and thus a legitimate debate? Is it random and thus affected twice over by his luck boost, making it something to at least consider where normally the double randomness would drop it out of the running compared to his other options?

Levi should be able to answer at least which of these four general categories it falls into, right? I'm not trying to get specifics, but so far as I can see we have no information at all on what options it actually gives.
 
beowolf said:
What is the list of Classes available for the Character Actor Benefit?
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The list will be built the same way that this one was -- based on his prior actions, social numbers, etc. As such, it's safe to assume that the classes will get better over time, as his stats go up and he has more achievements/fans/etc. There will still be some duds, but it's a safe bet.

From a more Doylist perspective: I have a certain list of classes available already and won't want to create lots and lots of new options each time, so it's a good bet that some of these will be reused in addition to new ones being created.

If you choose Former Child Actor then I will hold another vote to select the class skills for this floor, using the list here. In other words, you can be a Former Child Actor and also be a Vegas Strip Magician, at least for this floor.
 
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eaglejarl said:
The list will be built the same way that this one was -- based on his prior actions, social numbers, etc. As such, it's safe to assume that the classes will get better over time, as his stats go up and he has more achievements/fans/etc. There will still be some duds, but it's a safe bet.

From a more Doylist perspective: I have a certain list of classes available already and won't want to create lots and lots of new options each time, so it's a good bet that some of these will be reused in addition to new ones being created.
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Thanks.

[X]Former Child Actor
 
Not really relevant at the moment, but did the Astronomy Army go down as one big party? Because they might not finish their selections before the level collapses.
 
Toboe said:
Would Leo the Monster Hunter put more stress on her than she would have without it? How would it be worse than her current role? What better class can we give her?

Considering how she is whenever Taylor tells her to be careful, do you think we can give her a support class like medical student (or other healer) or a back-line dd? She would revolt or develop cabin fever.
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Oh, Leo is definitely a combat class. But there's an entire spectrum of difference between "supporting class" and "a class literally called hitman."

Not to mention whatever backlash there would be from the audience and the A.I. from actively choosing a Hitman class, and then trying to spin the narrative play of your class.

The A.I. is dickish enough that Taylor-the-character independently dumped all his napalm because he thought the A.I. was implying that they wanted that. Levi warned against Drew trying to munchkin the "Cockroach" ability, and cited the A.I.'s fickleness.

The A.I. can be our best friend, or our worst enemy, and their fickleness has been well-presented. I'd rather not see the A.I decide that Leo was "being a waste of a Hitman class" or that she wasn't "fulfilling her potential" or some other thing

If there are several dozens of classes that are all similar to each other, then there very well could be "Exterminator" or "Monster Hunter" classes that carry the same generalities as "Hitman", but with a different connotation/theme.
 
I think the math people are using for Medical Student is off? Either that or I'm confused. As I read it, the interest starts at $7500 (1% of 750000), the first payment is thus $378.5 (.05% of 757,500).
 
eaglejarl said:
I'm afraid that the rules that cover what game guides are allowed to do specify that each person must lock in their choices before the next person can check their races. Game guide rules also specify that race must be locked in before class is looked at.
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Perhaps this is metagaming, but I think this is a hint not to take the Manager benefit.
I haven't read the original story, but just started reading Dungeon Crawler Darryl at eaglejarl's recommendation - and in there they specifically say that Managers who don't really care about you don't let you pick race and class simultaneously. The Managers that are willing to spend a bit of time and effort on crawlers let them look at class possibilities before race is actually picked (although once you actually turn into a specific race, you should look at classes again because race choice can unlock new class choices).

Manager seems like something that really requires a Manager willing to put in an effort for us, especially to benefit from crafting and stuff.

By the way, what class does Carl take in the original? I gather that he's a Primal, right?
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Perhaps this is metagaming, but I think this is a hint not to take the Manager benefit.
I haven't read the original story, but just started reading Dungeon Crawler Darryl at eaglejarl's recommendation - and in there they specifically say that Managers who don't really care about you don't let you pick race and class simultaneously. The Managers that are willing to spend a bit of time and effort on crawlers let them look at class possibilities before race is actually picked (although once you actually turn into a specific race, you should look at classes again because race choice can unlock new class choices).

Manager seems like something that really requires a Manager willing to put in an effort for us, especially to benefit from crafting and stuff.

By the way, what class does Carl take in the original? I gather that he's a Primal, right?
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We don't have a manager. How would we get one before choosing race/class options?
 
schlega said:
We don't have a manager. How would we get one before choosing race/class options?
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The Manager perk doesn't introduce a new character to the story. It just makes Levi our Manager. Without it, we lose access to Levi after layer 3 or 4.
Levi isn't giving us these excellent-yet-slightly-inconvenient-for-him options, so I'm not convinced that he'd be a great Manager.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
The Manager perk doesn't introduce a new character to the story. It just makes Levi our Manager. Without it, we lose access to Levi after layer 3 or 4.
Levi isn't giving us these excellent-yet-slightly-inconvenient-for-him options, so I'm not convinced that he'd be a great Manager.
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If the rules here are different than in canon I'd assume it has more to do with Eaglejarl not wanting to write a 70000 word update detailing every possible option and trying to sort out the votes for everything at once.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
The Manager perk doesn't introduce a new character to the story. It just makes Levi our Manager. Without it, we lose access to Levi after layer 3 or 4.
Levi isn't giving us these excellent-yet-slightly-inconvenient-for-him options, so I'm not convinced that he'd be a great Manager.
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The fact that he spent his own money to grant us a quick rest, does make him a pretty good ally.
It was in fact in this chapter that he did it.
 
KreenWarrior said:
I think the math people are using for Medical Student is off? Either that or I'm confused. As I read it, the interest starts at $7500 (1% of 750000), the first payment is thus $378.5 (.05% of 757,500).
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Opps.
378.5 to not miss a payment.
If we want to stay stable (the cost doesn't increase) we'd need to pay at least interest.
You are right that minimum first payment + interest as first payment to stay stable is wrong.
So the math on it is slightly better.

@eaglejarl
if we take Former Child Actor and then pick a "student debt" class as the 1 floor class, does the debt from it disappear with the disadvantage when going down or would we be permanently saddled with that?
 
Levi is HEAVILY hinting that if he becomes a manager he CAN help us with certain things. He also spent money on making sure that this process went well for us. I think he'd be a great manager. I'm picking Former Child Actor because I think the skills it gives are really good, manager is just icing on the cake. I personally also think SFX artist is very underpowered. Justicar has an incredible amount of useful skills and that upgrade scroll could upgrade someone's signature weapon. Imagine if the yoyo got ANOTHER massive buff.
OH SHI TV PSYCHIC SCALES OUR LUCK BONUS EVERY LEVEL

[X] Former Child Actor
[X] Disgruntled Postal Worker
[X] Relentless Justicar
[X] Pirate Captain
[X] Mystic scholar
[X] Local-Access TV psychic

One more note: Wizard supremacist is super powerful, but that drawback is NASTY and hitting something on reflex is very possible.
 
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schlega said:
Does Public Education Funding apply to all xp the same way as the Medical Student buff or is that only character level xp?
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It covers all XP earned by each person in your party. That means XP assigned to skill and character levels.
schlega said:
Not really relevant at the moment, but did the Astronomy Army go down as one big party? Because they might not finish their selections before the level collapses.
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They did, yes. It's going to be a bit of an issue for them.


TalonofAnathrax said:
By the way, what class does Carl take in the original? I gather that he's a Primal, right?
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Compensated Anarchist

TalonofAnathrax said:
Levi isn't giving us these excellent-yet-slightly-inconvenient-for-him options, so I'm not convinced that he'd be a great Manager.
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Which options do you mean? If you're talking about the other 300-ish options that got weeded out before the short list that you're voting on was generated, the party decided which options to include in the list. All that Levi did was help Drew filter the list by whatever criteria he (Drew) chose. (From a Doylist perspective, I didn't want to make up 300 classes.)

Toboe said:
if we take Former Child Actor and then pick a "student debt" class as the 1 floor class, does the debt from it disappear with the disadvantage when going down or would we be permanently saddled with that?
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"I wish I could tell you," Levi said. "Unfortunately, the rules don't allow game guides to answer that." He grimaced. "There's a lot that game guides in particular are not allowed to tell you. Fortunately, there are various types of hirelings who can be more helpful."
 
eaglejarl said:
Compensated Anarchist
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That sounds like a fun class. What does it do? Is there a wiki or something for the story?

eaglejarl said:
"I wish I could tell you," Levi said. "Unfortunately, the rules don't allow game guides to answer that." He grimaced. "There's a lot that game guides in particular are not allowed to tell you. Fortunately, there are various types of hirelings who can be more helpful."
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Well then, I'm clearly totally wrong and he definitely wants to be our Manager. Please be even more unsubtle, I bet that only Taylor noticed this :D

eaglejarl said:
Which options do you mean? If you're talking about the other 300-ish options that got weeded out before the short list that you're voting on was generated, the party decided which options to include in the list. All that Levi did was help Drew filter the list by whatever criteria he (Drew) chose. (From a Doylist perspective, I didn't want to make up 300 classes.)
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In DCD, the guide goes "here's a small selection of the best available races". [They skim 3 or so]. "Here's a small selection of the best available classes" [They skim 3 or so, then they pick a race, then quickly double-check if it unlocks a good class (it doesn't), then they select a class]. The guide then says that most lazy guides don't bother with this, and instead force crawlers to select a race and then select a class because even though you lose a lot of potential it makes things go a bit faster for the guide, who just wants them out of here.
I get the Doylist reason, ofc, and I understand that I was over-interpreting and mis-interpreting a random detail.
But honestly, you could just slap the selected race and class options in a single update and require plan voting (so everyone votes for a race+class combo). That would probably generate more discussion, too.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
Is there a wiki or something for [DCC]?
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Yes. Here's a page I was looking at a moment ago: Compensated Anarchist

TalonofAnathrax said:
Well then, I'm clearly totally wrong and he definitely wants to be our Manager. Please be even more unsubtle, I bet that only Taylor noticed this :D
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Snerk.

TalonofAnathrax said:
But honestly, you could just slap the selected race and class options in a single update and require plan voting (so everyone votes for a race+class combo). That would probably generate more discussion, too.
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I haven't done that for several reasons; first, earlier choices might affect the presentation of later ones and, second, game guides are required to do it this way -- present race and then class for each person in the party with each choice getting locked in before moving to the next. It keeps things simple and moves crawlers through the process faster instead of hitting them with analysis paralysis as they deal with the combinatorial explosion of 200 races and 300 classes.
 
So I brushed up on Former Child Actor because it looks like it's going to be relevant as one of the final contenders. The Skill Character Actor gives you a list of 3 Classes you currently qualify for upon entering a new floor, and then a bunch of factors contribute into how many of the Skill/Benefits you get from the class you pick. The level of the skills/benefits goes up as Character Actor does.

The hidden benefit in canon (more like software bug, it feels like) is that if you level any of the skills/benefits while you have the class on that floor you get to keep the skill/benefit forever, and the xp you put into it gets put into the skill/benefits starting level.

Example: Drew picks Former Child Actor. For this next floor Character Actor gives him a list of Barbarian/Relentless Justicar/Pirate Captain. Drew chooses Barbarian and based on Character Actor's level he gets a chance at each actionable (stat/spell/skill/benefit), I'm guessing this is effected by his Fortune Favored letting him get more of each class even at lower levels.

In this example he gets 5 Strength, +4 to Pathfinder, +3 to Axe, and 25% Movement Speed (not sure if this counts as a stat). Yahtzee! We most likely took this class hoping to hit Pathfinder to add to Drew's build. Strength and movement speed cannot be levelled so Drew only has them for this floor. If Drew levels Pathfinder on this floor from level 4 to level 5 after this floor he keeps Pathfinder and the skill starts at probably around level 3. If he uses Axes but does not level it he loses it as soon as he hits the next floor and gets to pick a new class from Character Actor.
 
If we take mystic scholar (or something like it) for Taylor we could do without a dedicated healer/debuffer class if we can copy the relevant skills from someone else.
Would be ridiculous for no one in Team Astro Army to take a class with Heal Party if they are offered it.

That would leave it much safer to pick Former Child Actor. (If mystic scholar is available for Tay, if we have someone whose heal we can copy (astro army might be very far away, or be railroaded to not have good healer classes))

@eaglejarl
Is experience earned for a skill gotten through Former Child Actor considered an advantage of that class (and disappears on leaving the floor) or do the xp/skill level ups gained with it stay?
 
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