Don't Miss Your Deadline! (Manga Editor Quest)
- Thread starter zamin
- Start date
- Original Modern
zamin
The Watcher in the Dark
Sorry, that was a misclick. I rolled 5d20 instead of 4d20. Please ignore the +6 from the fifth die.
ah, my bad, I only looked at the total and totally missed the additional die for that roll
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Subara and Fake Teacher are fine.
Vampire needs 20 points to bring all stats to 40.
Lesser/Greater needs 24 points.
44 points out of 50, leaving us with just 6 left.
Vampire needs 20 points to bring all stats to 40.
Lesser/Greater needs 24 points.
44 points out of 50, leaving us with just 6 left.
- Location
- Italy
also the rerolls
- Location
- Canada
The great thing about Yuzuki is that she is effectively self editing, albeit at the cost of her highest rolls
That plus her +10 and free reroll from being an experienced mangaka makes her extremely reliable, if unremarkable
And because of that for this week we can easily afford to not edit her work at all, saving her alotted 12 points to distribute amongst the others
We'll likely need that, since Vampire and Evil are in rough states
Honestly even with all our editing points I wonder if we should strongly consider rejecting either Vampire or Evil in order to better ensure the success of the other 3 series
I'm not sure of the exact consequences of skipping a weeks release on one of the Manga, but continuing to spend all our effort pushing every Manga to the minimum bar of quality is very likely to see most if not all of our series cancelled in the long run as they fail to attract a readerbase due to being mediocre
Crunch is an option of course, but that system is designed to be untenable long term as well since it burns the Mangaka's health, and is also a bit luck dependent
@zamin I may have missed this info somewhere, but what exactly happens if we decide to reject a submission? I suspect we'll be forced to do this eventually even if we don't do it this week
That plus her +10 and free reroll from being an experienced mangaka makes her extremely reliable, if unremarkable
And because of that for this week we can easily afford to not edit her work at all, saving her alotted 12 points to distribute amongst the others
We'll likely need that, since Vampire and Evil are in rough states
Honestly even with all our editing points I wonder if we should strongly consider rejecting either Vampire or Evil in order to better ensure the success of the other 3 series
I'm not sure of the exact consequences of skipping a weeks release on one of the Manga, but continuing to spend all our effort pushing every Manga to the minimum bar of quality is very likely to see most if not all of our series cancelled in the long run as they fail to attract a readerbase due to being mediocre
Crunch is an option of course, but that system is designed to be untenable long term as well since it burns the Mangaka's health, and is also a bit luck dependent
@zamin I may have missed this info somewhere, but what exactly happens if we decide to reject a submission? I suspect we'll be forced to do this eventually even if we don't do it this week
with that opening chapter Lesser/Greater is in for a hard time. Like, the art is overall pretty bad *and* the story isnt even good enough to make up for it.
I'd say we crunch the story in the hope that it gets good enough that the readers will forgive the underwhelming art
I'd say we crunch the story in the hope that it gets good enough that the readers will forgive the underwhelming art
- Location
- USA
...what happens if we reject the first chapter of a manga? It's more pages than would normally need to be made up for, but it also doesn't have the penalties of disruption of an ongoing series.
zamin
The Watcher in the Dark
I talked about it a bit here, but TLDR rejecting a chapter will have three main effects:
- You lose some Favor cause you're basically giving the Editor in Chief more work to handle. This Favor loss can be reduced if you can give him a good reason for doing so. For example, if the stats are just SUPER terrible, you can argue that it'd require taking away too much effort from other, more successful series to shore it up. Doing this too often will piss him off though. Also, if a specific series gets rejected too many times, he might decide to give that series the chop since it's obviously not performing to standard.
- The mangaka obviously won't be happy about getting rejected, though once again this can be somewhat mitigated if you can point to an actual good reason for the rejection. So rejecting someone for turning in bad work is usually understandable, while rejecting someone just because you feel like being a dick is not. Regardless of reason, if a mangaka gets their work rejected too often they're going to get disheartened. This may cause them to ask for a new editor or even drop the series altogether.
- On the reader's side, delaying a chapter will cause a Popularity penalty since they'll move on, forget details about the story, etc. The longer the gap between chapters, the bigger the penalty (though it only goes up to a certain point). For obvious reasons, this wouldn't apply if the rejected chapter is the very first chapter, but the other two effects (the Favor loss and mangaka unhappiness) will still apply.
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- Location
- Italy
that's acceptable. the longest they last, the more experience our mangaka get, which allows them to go up a tier.
We also get more time we can use to gain more editor points, or to get other concessions like paid assistants.
hey, Bakuman taught me that the Mangaka has no right to ask for a different editor, it's their fault for not being good enough and/or standing up to them when they get it wrong!
GoukaRyuu
Shadow Cabal Made Man
- Location
- New Jersey
While we are playing as an editor here so I don't necessarily want to contradict you, I really don't think Bakuman really helped make editors look good, at least in the West. That attitude just makes really stupid turns in manga seem to be more the editorial teams fault than the mangaka.
- Location
- Italy
oh, I agree. or, to be more precise, Bakuman showed both very good and hilariously bad/incompetent editor... and mangaka.
I mean, the second editor (I think he was called Miura) for PCP basically ignored his mangaka's talents to force them to go with what was popular, but the first one (...Azuma? I'm not going to check for the name) was actually very good. and the chief was presented as harsh but fair.
In the end... I think it was mentioned in the show, but the lesson there is that "if an editor knew what the perfect manga is like, they'd publish it themselves". they're there to help and advise, but they can't do the mangaka's job for them, AND they can get it wrong. Especially if they're inexperienced.
- Location
- Italy
they're definitely good for the big picture, having an eye on current trends, and all kinds of advisory and support help. They're simply not always right.
Also you can always use another set of eyes to notice problems. I actually liked that mangaka's idea of using a hundred advisors from an online chat to help him create the "perfect" manga. He took it too far, and should have realized that sometimes (...more than sometimes, really) the fans get it wrong, but it had potential.
- Location
- Somewhere else
Looking at the feedback bonuses currently for our mangaka, Subaru-kun has +3, Vampire (assuming we use editor points to bump up everything to at least 40) will be -6, GFT has +6, and LEGE will be -1 (if we bump up all the low stats to 40, like Vampire).
Ouch on Vampire, there definitely needs some crunch time.
Ouch on Vampire, there definitely needs some crunch time.
- Location
- Canada
Part of making sure they actually last long enough to level up is ensuring the health of their series
A Mangaka whose series has just been cancelled is unlikely to immediately come up with another idea to pitch within a week and immediately get back on the treadmill
And in that span of time I doubt our dear Editor in Chief is going to just let us coast on a reduced workload, far more likely he'll tell us to go find another series to pick up and we could easily end up with another novice Mangaka
There's no guarantee that once the cancelled Mangaka does find a new idea to pitch that we'll be their editor again because of this, as far as I can tell
And a Mangaka who has suffered Burnout is effectively in a death spiral, as they will start to suffer penalties that will demand more crunch which will result in more Burnout
Inevitably, that will result in them suffering a breakdown, and after that they are definitely not going to be able to throw themselves right back into the grinder and may in fact quit entirely
In a numbers game like this Burnout needs to be avoided like the plague
Rejecting a submission should be an option that is actively considered in situations like this, as it can allow us to concentrate our efforts and ensure our Mangaka's longevity in the longterm
Rather than having to Crunch them and eventually have to deal with increasing Burnout penalties
Furthermore, play to Maeda's strengths here, he's Silver Tongued
He can offset a fair bit of the consequences of rejecting a submission since he's good at dealing with management and accruing favors
His weakness is that his actual ability as an Editor is lackluster, even after having upgraded and gained more points and suggestions
Trying to constantly push every series over the minimum bar of acceptability is playing to Maeda's weaknesses, and a recipe for mediocre series that will likely get cancelled and end up resetting a lot of our progress with our Mangaka's as they get replaced
That's called losing
So like, don't do that. Reassess, change tactics
Don't just fight to keep our head above water, start considering how we are going to get out of the pool
Seriously, lets say we delay Evil's release here
The Editor in Chief and Gendou will be a bit grumpy, but we have a legitimate reason: the art is quite frankly terrible which is unacceptable for a visual medium like Manga
We can further offset Editor in Chief's grievances with Favor, which we have a lot of because again Maeda is Silver Tongued (22 Favor is banked right now. 22!)
And we can avoid the third consequence entirely because Evil hasn't had its debut yet, it has no popularity to lose
And with the time we buy by doing this maybe we can find Gendou an assistant artist, which he desperately needs
In exchange for this we gain the 24 editing points that we would have otherwise needed to pull it out of the fire, which we can use to save Vampire and give Subaru a big comeback and give Teacher some bells and whistles
Alternatively we could reject Vampire, as it's easily the most lackluster of the bunch
I admit, due to the popularity loss this is likely the first step to its eventual cancellation unless it starts getting real lucky with rolls, but better accept the loss of one Mangaka in return for levelling up three other Mangakas
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- Location
- Somewhere else
I don't know if what we have will enough to save Vampire after this:
20 pts- evening out Vampire
7 pts-Layout/Background up to 70
6 pts-Characters up to 70
9 pts-Dialogue: up to 50
for a total of 42 points for a -1 total Feedback bonus.
- Location
- USA
Space Racer Subaru-kun (Chapter 3)
Writing
Supporting Characters: 41 + 5 = 46
Story: 45 + 5 - 5 = 45
Setting: 35 + 5 + 5 + 20 + 5 = 70
Dialogue: 61 + 5 = 66
Art
Layout/Background: 28 + 5 + 5 + 5 = 43
Characters: 28 + 5 + 5 = 38 49 + 5 + 5 - 5 = 54
Dynamic Art: 53 +5 + 5 + 10 = 73
Special Effects: 44 + 5 + 5 + 15 = 69
Writing
Supporting Characters: 41 + 5 = 46
Story: 45 + 5 - 5 = 45
Setting: 35 + 5 + 5 + 20 + 5 = 70
Dialogue: 61 + 5 = 66
Art
Layout/Background: 28 + 5 + 5 + 5 = 43
Characters: 28 + 5 + 5 = 38 49 + 5 + 5 - 5 = 54
Dynamic Art: 53 +5 + 5 + 10 = 73
Special Effects: 44 + 5 + 5 + 15 = 69
So story got unlucky with our suggestion failure. It happens. I dislike how the auto reroll was automatically assigned to characters over Layout though since the way the mechanics work it would have been better placed there. Although now we can use a crunch time more usefully there, so there's pros and cons to the situation.
+1 to special effects and we can see if there's points leftover to help more.
She'll have +4 to pop without needing much from us.
Our Daughter is Actually a Vampire! (Chapter 3)
Writing
Supporting Characters: 33 + 5 = 38
Story: 23 + 5 = 28
Setting: 32 + 5 = 37
Dialogue: 36 + 5 = 41
Art
Layout/Background: 58 + 5 = 63
Characters: 34 + 5 + 25 = 64
Dynamic Art: 13 + 5 = 18 35 + 5 = 40
Special Effects: 21 + 5 = 26 37 + 5 - 5 = 37
Writing
Supporting Characters: 33 + 5 = 38
Story: 23 + 5 = 28
Setting: 32 + 5 = 37
Dialogue: 36 + 5 = 41
Art
Layout/Background: 58 + 5 = 63
Characters: 34 + 5 + 25 = 64
Dynamic Art: 13 + 5 = 18 35 + 5 = 40
Special Effects: 21 + 5 = 26 37 + 5 - 5 = 37
Jesus his rolls were cursed. Crunch time Story and +8 points to get the easy ones to good enough let's us publish the chapter without too much pain. Unless his luck significantly turns around he's on the way out. Sad to see it, but the only other option is to reject the chapter and that's no good.
He's gonna have like -4 to his popularity after all.
(I'm assuming we can pass the ~73% chance to crunch time to 35 raw for story, but we would otherwise need to spend 12 more points to get him publishable)
The Greatest Fake Teacher (Chapter 18)
Writing
Supporting Characters: 30 + 10 + 15 = 55
Story: 57 + 10 + 5 = 72 - 12 = 60
Setting: 35 + 10 + 10 = 55
Dialogue: 56 + 10 = 66
Art
Layout/Background: 28 + 10 = 38 + 12 = 50
Characters: 16 + 10 + 5 = 31 39 + 10 + 5 = 54
Dynamic Art: 61 + 10 = 71
Special Effects: 61 + 10 = 71
Writing
Supporting Characters: 30 + 10 + 15 = 55
Story: 57 + 10 + 5 = 72 - 12 = 60
Setting: 35 + 10 + 10 = 55
Dialogue: 56 + 10 = 66
Art
Layout/Background: 28 + 10 = 38 + 12 = 50
Characters: 16 + 10 + 5 = 31 39 + 10 + 5 = 54
Dynamic Art: 61 + 10 = 71
Special Effects: 61 + 10 = 71
Everything turned out great, gonna have +6 to pop even if we do nothing. I've got a new favorite for us because she has the skills to deliver with our help.
She could crunch time supporting characters if she wants to try and take No. 1 in the polls. If so we could help polish dialogue for +4, but there's not much room for our help and points are very tight this time around.
Future reference though -- we basically have to give her suggestions every turn. If her highest isn't really high (or her lowest not that low) we can get into trouble. But if we do she'll probably stick in a top spot.
Lesser Evil, Greater Evil (Chapter 1)
Writing
Supporting Characters: 60 + 5 + 10 = 75
Story: 24 + 5 + 10 = 39
Setting: 48 + 5 + 10 = 63
Dialogue: 45 + 5 + 10 = 60
Art
Layout/Background: 48 + 5 - 10 = 43
Characters: 31 + 5 - 10 = 26 39 + 5 - 10 = 34
Dynamic Art: 34 + 5 - 10 = 29 22
Special Effects: 39 + 5 - 10 = 34
Writing
Supporting Characters: 60 + 5 + 10 = 75
Story: 24 + 5 + 10 = 39
Setting: 48 + 5 + 10 = 63
Dialogue: 45 + 5 + 10 = 60
Art
Layout/Background: 48 + 5 - 10 = 43
Characters: 31 + 5 - 10 = 26 39 + 5 - 10 = 34
Dynamic Art: 34 + 5 - 10 = 29 22
Special Effects: 39 + 5 - 10 = 34
Cancel the chapter and any future ones until he has a partner artist. He's unpublishable on his own.
If we can't just cut this chapter, spend +23 to get him publishable, and then crunch time the story. We can't rely on crunch time to get him to the publishable threshold for art with his penalties after all.
Crunch time to story gets a good chance of him launching with +0 but basically guaranteed to at least get publishable (~93% chance). We can also spend 1 more to get him to publishable with no crunch time.
Going forward, our core priority is to get him an artist or a way to reduce his penalty. Getting it down to just -5 means art will be publishable on average.
*****
@zamin can we get an emergency meeting with the Editor in Chief to discuss rejecting the chapters? There's merit to rejecting either, and we also can technically get everything to the publishable threshold, albeit at significant expense of the other works.
- Location
- Canada
Saving Vampire would be dependent on Crunching its lowest scores yeah
A prospect I'm wary of, but I don't think we can afford to reject more than one submission
It's doable, though I'd start tracking Akira's mental health very carefully after this likely heavy crunch session
The alternative that I would tentatively suggest is rejecting the Vampire submission
This also has legitimate excuses, the writing is in deep trouble that needs a lot of fixing and the art is mixed at best
With the points we spare by doing this we could make Evil passable enough to buy some breathing room on its debut
This would very likely also be the first step toward Vampire's cancellation however, as it will lose popularity when it doesn't have a ton of staying power to begin with
But that may just be the cost we have to pay
To echo Masaru
"if you want to get anywhere in this industry, you need to understand that a lot of manga series end up failing. Even if you and the mangaka put in 100%, sometimes it's still not enough."
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- Location
- Leeds
Something to keep in mind.
I don't think we're anywhere near that point at the moment.
However I'm a little worried about being too eager about delaying the Daughter manga since its already in the cuttable popularity range. If we lose 1 or 2 popularity from the delay then it becomes that much more difficult to get it above 10.
On the other hand if its going to take all our effort to get it to just a -1... Suddenly that looks like a bargin.
- Location
- Italy
I find myself in favour of cutting/delaying the new manga. The fact it doesn't yet HAVE popularity to lose is the tipping point in its favour. And it's also relatively easy to excuse. There's probably a few one-shots in reserve the magazine can use.
I don't think we can afford to do it for TWO series, though. Vampire is already in some trouble, AND while its easy to excuse the new mangaka needing more time to polish his work (especially considering we JUST MET HIM), it's harder to justify two series and not make it look like it's our fault.
I don't think we can afford to do it for TWO series, though. Vampire is already in some trouble, AND while its easy to excuse the new mangaka needing more time to polish his work (especially considering we JUST MET HIM), it's harder to justify two series and not make it look like it's our fault.
I dont see a reason to go for a crunch time for subaru. Like, there are downsides to using it too often and we already had Tana do one recently. Subaru meets our minimum standards already, and the few weaker rolls can be turned into average results, just by spending a few editing points on it. So I'd really want to avoid a crunch time here.
Similary, Teacher is perfectly solid. We can spend some points here, if we feel like we have some to spare, but honestly, we can just take it as it is without any issue.
Vampire and Evil though are painful, yeah. Vampire needs to pray to RNGesus for better rolls. and with Evil: he needs a good story roll, yeah. Like, even if we push all his art stats to 40, this would be about the worst drawn chapter in the entire magazine. For an opening chapter this is really rough and imo can only work if the story is just really good.
Like, if we crunch any of the art stats and get an ok result that way, then the other 3 are still going to be pretty meh. and if you pair this with a meh story(if we spend the 1 point to boost it to 40), then even good side chars and above average dialogue cant save this.
It would've been worse had we not have our editor points upgrade. We would have either reject one of them or crunch both with 20 to spread across the two of them.