Deus Pater (Exalted/40k)
- Thread starter Maugan Ra
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Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
Ultimately, zealotry has done a great deal of harm in the Imperium, so I am skeptical of the value of trying to inspire greater faith, or change the direction of existing worship. Bring the guilty forwards that we might make a show of that rarest of virtues, mercy, and actually demonstrate the difference between the rotten edifice that is the Imperium, and what we shall build from its ashes.
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If you're reading in to Preach that the smoothing isn't lasting or genuine, I'm reading in to Expose as present them with an ultimatum. They'll have a chance to repent, we should be prepared that what happens next may not be pretty especially if they don't bend.
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[X] Preach to the Choir. Disputes over doctrine can lead to the most virulent of feuds, and you would rather have a thousand minds in broad agreement than a hundred locked in fanatic loyalty. Smooth over the divisions that lead to the call for the Hereticus, and the rest will fall smoothly into place.
Flipping, wasn't fully comfortable with Expose and it...
Basically, it feels like the leaders of Expose are going for it on the notion that 'it's a chance for sinners to do right and come back.'
I don't trust it'll work like that. Especially given the Imperium's history/traditional ways of dealing with such things.
Unpleasant though it might sound in the grim-dark future of the 40,000th Millienium, I really do think that we're going to need to extend something of an open hand out first.
Basically-
I'm going Preach because should things go wrong it's more in line with the direction I want to take, versus Expose which feels like it has a chance to effectively 'prove' the Imperium right.
Flipping, wasn't fully comfortable with Expose and it...
Basically, it feels like the leaders of Expose are going for it on the notion that 'it's a chance for sinners to do right and come back.'
I don't trust it'll work like that. Especially given the Imperium's history/traditional ways of dealing with such things.
Unpleasant though it might sound in the grim-dark future of the 40,000th Millienium, I really do think that we're going to need to extend something of an open hand out first.
Basically-
I'm going Preach because should things go wrong it's more in line with the direction I want to take, versus Expose which feels like it has a chance to effectively 'prove' the Imperium right.
- Location
- Hollister
[X] Expose the Guilty
- Location
- Austria
Myes, true, but thing is....
There is nothing good that can come out of "reaching an agreement" with deliberate mass murderers.
They can either bend and repent or get bent and fuck off.
There is a room for compromise in doctrinal differences and countless other things, but not in this.
TenfoldShields
Lounging on a Hoard of Words
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But that's literally the Expose vote! It's not the Cardinal coming out swinging it's him extending a hand of forgiveness If They Want To Take It. And if they don't then- well then they don't and we go from there.
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You might be right but...
Okay, I think I have it.
Basically, my thought here is that a call-out MIGHT lead to good things. It might also lead to good men thinking that today is a good day to die for their beliefs/misdeeds in the past.
Especially if I'm right and everyone has kind of a little dirt...
Blech.
[X] Expose the Guilty. You cannot have enemies lurking unnoticed within your own priesthood. Prioritize identifying out the ones who have worked actively against you, and offer them the chance to repent before their peers.
I will say I've been less then interested in Ignite for a few reasons-one, Imperial Saints or whatever they're called+ Cults centered around us sounds like the sort of thing that the Emperor had going up to the point he got hooked up to the Great Golden Toilet, and setting up a person as an Icon sounds like an excellent time for the Changling to show up and take your place and gleefully ram your dominion straight into the Warp.
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It's not an open hand when that last bit is tacked on. Its hunting down our enemies to repent their crimes against us in public.
Again, we need to be ready for what happens when they either don't, or that repentance isn't good enough for the masses.
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- in the trash
[X] Expose the Guilty. You cannot have enemies lurking unnoticed within your own priesthood. Prioritize identifying out the ones who have worked actively against you, and offer them the chance to repent before their peers.
TenfoldShields
Lounging on a Hoard of Words
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It's a confrontation yeah but it's not couched in the inherent aggression of "hunting down" I think. And ultimately I do think a kind of confrontation is necessary, drawing that line in the sand and addressing the issue and it's roots at the start. That's kinda my problem with Ignite and Preach I think, in that both sort of bury the problem/kick the can down the road. Yeah it's getting dealt with but...obliquely, as a side effect of something else rather than necessarily the focus and my concern is that leaving it to later can also just mean leaving it to fester. Or provoke a more extreme response down the line, and if Expose is guilty of bluntness then I'd argue that Preach is, IC at least, guilty of perhaps excessive optimism.
I don't think everything will smoothly fall into place just because we get all the Clergy on the same platform so to speak.
They don't, I think. Ignite turns it into a question of "am I divine or aren't I? I say I am and thus the question of who betrayed me is moot because you are all my flock regardless". Whereas for Expose the question of truth and reconciliation is very much the primary concern and overall it leans away from the fanaticism.
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The way I see it?
Going 'I Am here by the will of the God-Emperor himself!' is more proclaiming our divinity and letting others jump to the fact that yanno, we are legit a sacred icon with the power of the Emperor invested in us in tangible ways that most can only dream of.
Naturally, given the Imperium is held together under the God-Emperor, that in turn basically demands anyone who hears those words basically have a new number 1 priority of serving us. Which in turn means anyone who plotted against us is in turn acting against the God Emperor, and is a Traitor to the Imperium in a far truer sense then is typically possible.
This basically means anyone who acted against us is going to jump up as if their chair turned into magma to throw themselves on our mercy.
Expose, on the flipside, I see as going 'SOMEONE must have ratted me out to get an Inquisitor up here. While I was Divinely Empowered to Backhand him into next week that doesn't change that someone in here called him in. WHO DID IT!?' It's basically saying that Heads Will Roll if we find them before they turn themselves in.
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[X] Expose the Guilty.
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I've been thinking of that as the Vandire option. I'm not sure people that already thought Ignatius was heretical will change that estimation when he declares himself a living saint or whatever.
I'm probably reading 'smooth over the divisions that led to the Hereticus being called' more charitably than you, and vice versa, because all my connotations with expose, and guilty, and enemies, and repenting before their peers screams auto-da-fe.
Assigning flavors to the approaches I settled on Karamazov, Vandire, and Thor. All very effective in their own ways, but preference dictates as it will.
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
[X] Expose the Guilty. You cannot have enemies lurking unnoticed within your own priesthood. Prioritize identifying out the ones who have worked actively against you, and offer them the chance to repent before their peers.
[X] Ignite the Soul. You know better than most the unifying power of faith. Prioritize the clergy's acceptance of you as a divine icon, and they will follow you into the depths of the foulest hell if their duty so requires.
I'm equally in favor of both of the above, and only against 'Preach'. Nothing here is going to be helped by our compromising with the worst elements of humanity, the monstrous and diseased engine that humanity has mutilated itself into. At best you are granting pearls unto swine and just as likely diluting a glass of fresh water in an ocean of salt.
I bear little malice towards those who would style themselves our enemies. But they must cast down their idols, break their own chains, by their own choice.
[X] Ignite the Soul. You know better than most the unifying power of faith. Prioritize the clergy's acceptance of you as a divine icon, and they will follow you into the depths of the foulest hell if their duty so requires.
I'm equally in favor of both of the above, and only against 'Preach'. Nothing here is going to be helped by our compromising with the worst elements of humanity, the monstrous and diseased engine that humanity has mutilated itself into. At best you are granting pearls unto swine and just as likely diluting a glass of fresh water in an ocean of salt.
I bear little malice towards those who would style themselves our enemies. But they must cast down their idols, break their own chains, by their own choice.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
Worth remembering,
The impression I get is that the options given do not have an innate flavour. How we discuss them decides that. If the mood of those voting Expose is, "bring forth the guilty that we might forgive them their trespasses, and thereby make clear the division between ourselves and the Imperium," then... that's what it means.
[x] Preach to the Choir. Disputes over doctrine can lead to the most virulent of feuds, and you would rather have a thousand minds in broad agreement than a hundred locked in fanatic loyalty. Smooth over the divisions that lead to the call for the Hereticus, and the rest will fall smoothly into place.
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- She/Her
So the Expose consensus is that they come forth, have the chance to repent and are forgiven regardless or...
The discussion should assume the action succeeds, but success for Expose doesn't force them to repent. We'd find them and give them the chance. So, what happens next? What do we do with those that repent and those that don't?
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[X] Preach to the Choir. Disputes over doctrine can lead to the most virulent of feuds, and you would rather have a thousand minds in broad agreement than a hundred locked in fanatic loyalty. Smooth over the divisions that lead to the call for the Hereticus, and the rest will fall smoothly into place.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
[X] Expose the Guilty. You cannot have enemies lurking unnoticed within your own priesthood. Prioritize identifying out the ones who have worked actively against you, and offer them the chance to repent before their peers.
The blood of the men and women of the Imperium is the Emperor's currency. To spend it so frivolously on a mere power struggle, something so petty, so base, is the worst sort of blasphemy.
The blood of the men and women of the Imperium is the Emperor's currency. To spend it so frivolously on a mere power struggle, something so petty, so base, is the worst sort of blasphemy.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
That's a difficult question to answer sight-unseen - it greatly depends on how they act. We might end up hashing things out in a lively (Exalted) debate, but assuming they're obstinate and we're left with no recourse but punishment, I'd err on the side of mercy. Execution should be kept off the table, for example, never mind the many and varied fates worse than death the Imperium has up its sleeves. Exile, maybe? Consignment to some minor abbey? Simple demotion? Heck, maybe we just forgive them regardless and allow some heterodox beliefs among our clergy, assuming they don't seem like they're liable to call mass murderers down on our flock again.
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