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Dark Prince of Camelot

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Nevill said:
...but wasn't she considered a tyrant anyway by those who joined the rebellion, precisely for that unwillingness to bend? What difference did it make?
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In this context, "tyrant" means someone who rules according to their own dictates, unrestrained by any external factors. A Queen, on the other hand, is granted a legitimacy by their strict adherence to law.

That's part of the tragedy in the end. If she was more human, more selfish, more able to bend and balance the law and her desires, she'd have been better off. You can appeal to a tyrant's sense of rational self interest.

But with a Queen? There's no mercy, no compromise, no second chances. Only justice, regardless of the cost.

Honestly, I'd welcome suggestions for a better word than tyrant. That was just the closest I could think of that fit the voice of the scene.
 
Shura12305 said:
Rule as the next God King, probably, he did seem incredibly rankled at the fact that his mom would be ruling forever, and that he'd been harming his own birthright for her when Merlin revealed his resurrection trick.
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I think it was more she'd just had him commit mass murder and he'd convinced himself that when he was King he'd change things in order to deal with the trauma. When he discovered that Artura would reign forever as an undying God-Queen he realised that would never happen and things would never change which pushed him over the edge.
 
Gally said:
Do you guys think Artura wanted Gwynn to die? This isn't me trying to influence your decisions - I really want to know your opinions. At some point Artura had to make a value judgment, and apparently she decided that enforcing Camelot's law as written was more important than Gwynn's life. Lorelei obviously came to the opposite conclusion - why do y'all think that is?
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No, I don't think so. She hesitated for a split second before launching the spell, so she clearly didn't want to, but she had to. Because Law. At the same time, following said Law might have made things worse for her, but she was in a lose-lose situation either way. It's a matter of legitmacy, of following the laws you are meant to, and some humanity. It would be very human of her to hesitate at killing the man she 'loved', least in public.

Not even sure where to begin on Lorelei. Love? Human decency? Selfishness? All of the above?

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If you'll excuse me, I need to go panic a bit more.
 
runeblue360 said:
In this context, "tyrant" means someone who rules according to their own dictates, unrestrained by any external factors. A Queen, on the other hand, is granted a legitimacy by their strict adherence to law.

That's part of the tragedy in the end. If she was more human, more selfish, more able to bend and balance the law and her desires, she'd have been better off. You can appeal to a tyrant's sense of rational self interest.

But with a Queen? There's no mercy, no compromise, no second chances. Only justice, regardless of the cost.

Honestly, I'd welcome suggestions for a better word than tyrant. That was just the closest I could think of that fit the voice of the scene.
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How about a System?
 
[X] She was accountable to no one, so she held herself accountable to the law. If she hadn't, she would've been a tyrant, not a queen.

Simple, to the point, and it allows Mordred to answer any response from Piper in context.

I think the real issue is there's just so much Mordred doesn't know because of how much younger he was. While a part of the Court, he was clearly on the outside looking in on many sensitive political topics on the Round Table.

It's very likely that the decision to execute Gwyn was partly related to the Court and nobility, but it's also very likely it related to the power of the Round Table. The fact both Arturia and Lorelei came into it naturally and can both control it to an extent. This also further complicates Mordred's relationship with Genma's past self.

Also something I'm not sure about. We know Arturia, Lorelei, Gala, and Mordred developed their heraldries on their own. Did the other Knight's do the same, or were the given them by Arturia using the Round Table. I think it's been mentioned, at least subtlety one way or the other, but I can't remember.
 
Solace2117 said:
The fact both Arturia and Lorelei came into it naturally and can both control it to an extent.
[...]
We know Arturia, Lorelei, Gala, and Mordred developed their heraldries on their own.
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Wait, what?

Why is Lorelei's name on that list? Where was it mentioned?

Original - Dark Prince of Camelot | Page 123
This is the interlude we have on the Round Table, and it only mentions Gala as an exception who manifested a Heraldry on her own. We know of Mordy, but I don't think there is anything on Lorelei.

It would be interesting if Lorelei was set up as a moon to Artura's sun, and there were always meant to be 2 factions.

Rereading the story...
Gally said:
Artura fought her way through the tournament with ease until the final bout, in which she faced an anonymous Knight known as the Dolorous Guard. After a hard fought battle, Artura triumphed, and revealed the knight to be Lorelei, a common-born maid serving under Prince Gwynn. Lorelei had sought to use the tournament as a way to prove her worth as a knight to King Leodegrance, or so she claimed.

Artura was ecstatic, as she had won both the tournament and the romantic attention of Prince Gwynn. But it was then that King Leodegrance revealed the true purpose of the tournament – a way to find someone brave enough to attempt to pull a legendary sword from a chunk of stone. It was said that the only one who could free the sword from the stone was the trueborn King or Queen of all England.

Of course, Artura pulled the sword from the stone easily. As she did so, the stone revealed itself to be the Round Table, a mystical artifact of extreme power. Artura shared a portion of this power with Lorelei, as she was impressed by the common girl's skill and dedication to her lord. Thus, Lorelei became Lady Lorelei Lake, the first Knight of the Round Table.
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Whoa. Not only did Artura 'steal' Lorelei's beloved, but also the entire place in the mythos. Had Lorelei won the tournament, she'd have claimed the Round Table for herself. Still, the legend only mentions her power as a borrowed one. Did something change, or was the legend wrong in the first place?
 
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Solace2117 said:
It's very likely that the decision to execute Gwyn was partly related to the Court and nobility, but it's also very likely it related to the power of the Round Table. The fact both Arturia and Lorelei came into it naturally and can both control it to an extent. This also further complicates Mordred's relationship with Genma's past self.

Also something I'm not sure about. We know Arturia, Lorelei, Gala, and Mordred developed their heraldries on their own. Did the other Knight's do the same, or were the given them by Arturia using the Round Table. I think it's been mentioned, at least subtlety one way or the other, but I can't remember.
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Nevill said:
Wait, what?

Why is Lorelei's name on that list? Where was it mentioned?

Original - Dark Prince of Camelot | Page 123
This is the interlude we have on the Round Table, and it only mentions Gala as an exception who manifested a Heraldry on her own. We know of Mordy, but I don't think there is anything on Lorelei.

It would be interesting if Lorelei was set up as a moon to Artura's sun, and there were always meant to be 2 factions.
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Lorelei only manifested a Heraldry after being Knighted by Artura, but that was about ten minutes after Artura came into her power. Lorelei's Heraldry was also never revoked, even when she was exiled, so there are legitimate arguments for both interpretations.
Nevill said:
Whoa. Not only did Artura 'steal' Lorelei's beloved, but also the entire place in the mythos. Had Lorelei won the tournament, she'd have claimed the Round Table for herself.
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How often do you think Lorelei lay awake at night, thinking about that?
Scify said:
Mind letting the rest of us in on it?
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Damn, sorry. I guess the image doesn't make as much sense without context. With context, it's very ominous.
 
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[X] Legitimacy. Artura was never popular with the nobility, and if she'd spat on their traditions whilst killing the king they loved she'd have lost any legitimacy that she ever had.
 
Nevill said:
This is the interlude we have on the Round Table, and it only mentions Gala as an exception who manifested a Heraldry on her own. We know of Mordy, but I don't think there is anything on Lorelei.

It would be interesting if Lorelei was set up as a moon to Artura's sun, and there were always meant to be 2 factions
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That was me misremembering, though as Gally brought up it could be argued either way. In a lot of ways though they are two sides of the same coin. Arturia was justice, order, law. Lorelei a rebel, chaos, passion. Things probably aren't that simple, but considering she's able to absorb power from one of the dead Knights that followed her, she seems to have been able to circumvent some of the power of the Round Table. I don't know if I'd say there was supposed to be two separate factions, though that is a possibility, but there are certainly parallels that can be drawn.

It also raises a lot of interesting questions about Mordred. We don't really know what Lorelei was like outside of a broad historical description and a few brief images in flashbacks. In fact, I don't think Gally has actually addressed what happened to her following the rebellion, which is actually a pretty important piece of the puzzle. It is interesting though how in a lot of ways, despite the fact he hated her, he follows pretty closely in her footsteps. All the reasons Gaheria gives, which I'm sure originate from Lorelei, are the basis for Mordred's own reason to follow the same path.

I can't help, but feel like the relationship between Arturia and Lorelei to some extent parallel that of Gala and Mordred. I don't know if there's enough information to fully draw a conclusion, and it's probably not clear cut, but there does seem to be a lot of symmetry.
 
Scify said:
Mind letting the rest of us in on it?
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Nothing good.

It's from Darling in the Franxx, an anime that's airing this season. I think that's from Episode 5 since the show took it's time to get there.

That image is from when one of the guys on the team asks people from a different team if anyone on it has ever become an adult. The specifics aren't too important, but the general implication is they're all going to die (or are at least expected to) which is reinforced by a lot of shit you see in the show, but the kids lack the context to make that conclusion. Granted, it's never been outright said, so it could be some other horrible revelation instead.

In this context with it being a response to asking if we fucked up giving Lucy up, it's an ominous meme. Granted, since the original context was a hopeful question and this was the opposite, we might not be that screwed. Wishful thinking, but it is worth considering.
 
A quick update: I'm making good progress on the next post, but it looks like it'll be a couple more days before it's ready to release. I'm trying to be more disciplined in general and write ~1k words every day, but I'm not always necessarily writing DPoC. This update will also be on the longer side.

Overall, I'd say we're probably heading towards the quest's endgame - there's a lot of stuff we still need to cover, but many of the previously established plot threads will be resolving themselves simultaneously, and I'm definitely not going to be introducing any new hooks. I'm not getting bored of the quest, but this is something I really want to have a definitive ending, and that means paring down some stuff and getting ready for the end.

As always, thanks for reading and commenting, and I hope you continue to enjoy the story!
 
*Emerges from the pile of replies*
Finally i have caught up! And I have to say this was an interesting quest to behold. Mordred feels so real and human. the premise and how this evolved from casual anime tropes to right now. It really is a great quest that made me have a roller coaster ride of emotions some more angry flare ups with the votes and what actions were made but it just makes me more interested in it because how it made me care about the characters i'm enjoying and happily gonna join this quest now.

Though since I'm still feeling the happiness, sadness, joy, anger excitement, and fear I'm gonna have to abstain from voting today since I'm in a way volatile do to binging through this quest and need to reign in my feelings
 
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Huh. I am simultaneously relieved there will be a proper conclusion to this tale, and worried because we have accumulated a huge number of plot hooks without actually resolving any of them, making me think we barely entered midgame. So any kind of 'simultaneous resolution' and talks of the endgame at this point bring an image of a forest fire to my mind, because I can't think of much else that would untangle the mess that's been created quickly enough.

Will be looking forward to the ending with baited breath and mild optimism.
 
Wait are we on endgame already? Oh just my luck then oh well at least it has been interesting .
 
Blonddude42 said:
We're already getting to the endgame? Huh. They might actually kill us. Didn't think that was a possibility.
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Nevill said:
Huh. I am simultaneously relieved there will be a proper conclusion to this tale, and worried because we have accumulated a huge number of plot hooks without actually resolving any of them, making me think we barely entered midgame. So any kind of 'simultaneous resolution' and talks of the endgame at this point bring an image of a forest fire to my mind, because I can't think of much else that would untangle the mess that's been created quickly enough.

Will be looking forward to the ending with baited breath and mild optimism.
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Hoshu said:
Wait are we on endgame already? Oh just my luck then oh well at least it has been interesting .
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We're only just now entering endgame, which by my outlines is still going to be a significant chunk of the story. So I wouldn't worry too much about the end just yet - I mentioned it so you guys would know there's a shift coming.
Hoshu said:
*Emerges from the pile of replies*
Finally i have caught up! And I have to say this was an interesting quest to behold. Mordred feels so real and human. the premise and how this evolved from casual anime tropes to right now. It really is a great quest that made me have a roller coaster ride of emotions some more angry flare ups with the votes and what actions were made but it just makes me more interested in it because how it made me care about the characters i'm enjoying and happily gonna join this quest now.

Though since I'm still feeling the happiness, sadness, joy, anger excitement, and fear I'm gonna have to abstain from voting today since I'm in a way volatile do to binging through this quest and need to reign in my feelings
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Glad to have you caught up! Looking forward to your input in the future.
 
Gally said:
We're only just now entering endgame, which by my outlines is still going to be a significant chunk of the story. So I wouldn't worry too much about the end just yet - I mentioned it so you guys would know there's a shift coming.

Glad to have you caught up! Looking forward to your input in the future.
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Thanks btw do you have any other quest starting i can observe? I really like your writing style.
 
Gally said:
We're only just now entering endgame, which by my outlines is still going to be a significant chunk of the story. So I wouldn't worry too much about the end just yet - I mentioned it so you guys would know there's a shift coming.
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Still need to get cracking on making those Fate/Zero crossover omakes.
 
Nah, not worried about the immediate ending, but I thought the shift had already occured back when the Movie was suddenly aired. It was a pretty big break from the already established flow that combined a lot of existing plot elements and 'artificially' brought them together through Dream magic. It was then when we were made aware of Lucy's place in the plot; where the independent actors (that we barely started to explore in the waking world) were dropped on our head as a single entity, the Resistance; where the larger plot elements like the Source of All Lies were introduced etc. It was a big departure from the weekly pace of high-school hijinks... and I think ultimately it made the story more interesting despite being a bit of a shocker.

The quest initially alluded to a much larger scope - the Forces of Darkness having their own entries made me think we'll get to know them on par with Sa'Lanyah, i.e. they will have their own arcs as villains. The entry about the Simian Hordes is still a '???', and not much more is known about Morgana despite her being a player with active involvement in the lives of the Knights, i.e. having the same interests as us. So I thought that perhaps the Movie jolt was to get us back on a collision path with our old 'friends' so we could finally get introduced to the antagonists and define a goal we'd be working towards. You know, it's pretty weird how far we've gone without a clear understanding of what we even want, or - as far as a vaguely defined wish to 'break the cycle' goes - how to achieve it.

So the increase of speed was welcome then. It's been... what, about four days since then? More happened in that timespan than in the last three weeks prior to that. Even though the rapid, feverish pace also brought with it the raising of the stakes and some nasty piece of drama.

But now it turns out that we are still not going fast enough, and will be skipping some of the previously planned stops. Even though I understand why it happens, and I much prefer having an actual resolution, whatever it will be, I can't help feeling uneasy considering what the previous shift brought with it, and the promised change of tone towards deconstruction. There is so much to fix, and the time window is getting even narrower than I thought it'd be. Morgan was said to be a force for Change, but with things going as they are, I am no longer confident it's a change for the better. You know, what with his leitmotif.

I don't know if it's fair to play favorites with the characters, but I really, really hope we can save Lucy from whatever is in store for her. I want all of them to live, obviously, but the reincarnations of the original contributors to Mordred's rebellion - Annabelle, Matthew, Gavin, Lucy and Gemma - have really grown on me. I think I care less about what happens to Mordred than I do about those.
 
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