When he starts experimenting I would love to see some UNSC based ships
Daidalos Rises - nBSG AI/SI Story - Interwar Period!
- Thread starter Cave_Canem
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
Cave_Canem
Giant Transforming Robot
Eh, on the one hand, funny!
On the other, Daidalos doesn't much like the metal cylons either - remember the protohybrid experiments were their idea, not the human models.
Not to the point of wanting to wipe them out, but he'd be wanting assurances that shit doesn't happen again.
Of course, Scorpia's situation is an easy way to avoid having to see the colonial government as legitimate and having to follow their orders.
He's just unlikely to actually try to 'free' them, because then he'd have to follow their orders.
Probably no ships from other settings, sorry.
Regarding Ships, Daidalos doesn't really need to make interiors for crew beyond dedicated boarding craft and ships designed to accommodate humans/Cylons.
His battleships can largely be all armour, engines and weapons.
Just pound for pound more bang for his buck, really take advantage of being an A.I. made for this rather than a bunch of rebellious domestic servants.
His battleships can largely be all armour, engines and weapons.
Just pound for pound more bang for his buck, really take advantage of being an A.I. made for this rather than a bunch of rebellious domestic servants.
Oh yeah, this is right up my alley!
me luv me some AI MC,
me luv me some BSG,
simple as
me luv me some AI MC,
me luv me some BSG,
simple as
Cave_Canem
Giant Transforming Robot
^ pretty much.
To be clear, there IS a lot of space that can be saved by not needing to provide for an organic crew, and yeah there is no reason to even have control stations for things - but damage control is still a thing, and will require either a lot of redundancy or a way for 'crew' to get in and repair/bypass components.
But yes, even basic optimisations with this in mind along with a massively shortened CnC Loop (and therefore much faster reactions) will mean his ships will hit a lot harder pound-for-pound than anything that needs to carry thousands of gallons of water, air, food, etc.
I'm glad you like the idea lol
I'm planning to have the next chapter up by the end of this week, hoping to get some momentum going both in story and in my writing.
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Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
Yes but no.
Frankly Cylons are themselves the bottom of the barrel for what an AI can do. That they venerated the human form enough to become meatbags is the only justification for them remaining humanoid.
A full AI can use its processing power to make bodies of whatever shape is best for the ship, and multiple types simultaneously at that. Whatever maintainance access an AI ship has will be vastly smaller and more optimized than for humans.
Cave_Canem
Giant Transforming Robot
Definitely true! Just remember that Daidalos is not a ship *design* AI, nor is he a being of pure intelligence - he's a human-ish mind melded to an automated fleet command and production AI.
He will be able to do it eventually, but it will take quite some time for him to get good enough at designing ships to refit all his designs to this standard, and in the meantime humanoid robots allow him to continue using the tools and equipment he already has, plus a variety of other tasks that aren't limited to fixing things or shooting at people.
Or in other words, he will definitely get nonhumanoid units eventually, but humanoid and animal-themed robots are still going to be a thing.
You know you mentioning the various robots got be remebering what they did in OBSG
I present the peak of the refugees fleet robotics program, built by apollo and starbuck(the male one)
Moffit the robot daggot(colonial dog analogue)((it was actually a nice chimp in a suit))
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Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
If the MC can't throw processing power at designs like a proper AI, then he's already crippled in the E-War field since he can't compete with Cylon E-War, and he will have to lock down his ships like the Colonials do, which is doubly crippling because he loses his entire coordination advantage there.
Some concept art.
Cylon gym rat, you know when you just have to have a robot weightlifter.
When you just want to feed the steriotype of cylons being immoral menegles
The fanciman model cylon.
When legs just dont cut it bring on the treads.
when you didnt think it could get worse, well guess it can.
and finally for the inevitable meeting between an avatar of daidalos and adama in the future.
Daidalos avatar: "Hi i built your ship, isnt she beautiful and well built?"
Adama: "Yes she is."
Silence.
Adama: "Now get the hell of my fracking ship" ....... "how the hades did you even get in here anyway"
Daildalos: Suriprised Pikachu face.
Cylon gym rat, you know when you just have to have a robot weightlifter.
When you just want to feed the steriotype of cylons being immoral menegles
The fanciman model cylon.
When legs just dont cut it bring on the treads.
when you didnt think it could get worse, well guess it can.
and finally for the inevitable meeting between an avatar of daidalos and adama in the future.
Daidalos avatar: "Hi i built your ship, isnt she beautiful and well built?"
Adama: "Yes she is."
Silence.
Adama: "Now get the hell of my fracking ship" ....... "how the hades did you even get in here anyway"
Daildalos: Suriprised Pikachu face.
Hummm intresting designs for some raiders frankly they look way more badass than the sycths.
And if he wants to design a actual baseship that doesnt look like a luxury sports car(i mean the obviously had a pool on those things, they had custom baths afterall.)
Yuo know for when a flying city would just be ideal.
Cave_Canem
Giant Transforming Robot
"Just throw processing power at it" is THE most boring and overdone part of PA fics because the writer wants an excuse to skip the design stage, or wank their progenitor ewar systems with AI magic hacking.
The Cylons had to get a backdoor into the Colonials network system once they had time to make rewrites, they don't have magic hacking, and Daidalos runs on the same hardware they do, but with software and network protocols designed specifically to fight Cylons. He's fine.
The Cylons never seemed to me to have superhuman intellect or anything, and even lack the simple advantage of the central computer being intelligent, so the idea this is a disadvantage is luducrous.
I COULD just do this, but it would be a completely different story to my intention.
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Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
The Cylons had to build a backdoor to bypass Colonial airgapping by having an in to their secure systems.
The Colonial solution to E-War is to not let anything in. The few times on screen they do, we see the Cylons immediately batter down their inferior defenses (they actually secretly break through at the last second in that episode, so quickly nobody even noticed).
And yes, for normal designs, throwing processing power at it is the solution, since you can build a hallway that takes weeks for humans to design as fast as you can simulate their manhours. It might not work for developing brand new technology since you could have unsimulated interactions, but for just making a new ship it does.
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Even if the MC just takes a minute to strip out a lot of the systems required by humans, kitchen, bathrooms etc. his ships will have a slight speed advantage against comparable ships because they aren't hauling thousands of tons of supplies and equipment. While also speeding up production and reducing the cost of his designs.
Edit: As for future designs I think he will go for a Minotaur that adds a few long-range missile tubes to create a destroyer equivalent to bulk out his fleets. Something pretty simple and easy to resupply.
Edit: As for future designs I think he will go for a Minotaur that adds a few long-range missile tubes to create a destroyer equivalent to bulk out his fleets. Something pretty simple and easy to resupply.
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Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
If BSG sublight engines are realistic, yeah.
But if that's the case, he could go much farther and make a Battlestar that's like 90% engine and outrun fighters and similar insanity, which would be hilarious and also a very specific niche only avaliable to the MC because he's a mobile dock that can support huge capital ships that are merely short range parasite craft.
A Battlestar size torpedo bomber would totally shred any Basestar around with sheer numbers of missiles.
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Cave_Canem
Giant Transforming Robot
You seem to misunderstand what CNP was.
The entire point was that it was a return to networking and greater automation for the fleet, and the Cylons apparently needed to get an insider to give them a backdoor.
Daidalos thinks somewhat faster than a human, but he can't just 'simulate manhours'. You have to know how to design a ship in order to do it still. That is what I am talking about, using 'but simulations!' to bypass actually knowing how to do something.
Look, I'm not going to respond on this topic anymore, it's just a distraction from actually writing the story, and I'm not going to change things for you.
Both are good points to be honest. the problem daidalos has is he is a human mind merged with what is basically a mobile command center/shipyard. while yes he had a small RnD facility it was only used when producing the arcadias and jupiters nothing else. most colonial research was planetside where it would be massivly protected. in blood and chrome they show a cylon attack on a facility on virgon in a flashback. It literally took them using tanks legions of troops and air and orbital attacks to take it and even then they ended up destroying what they were after.
While yes the colonials werent exactly the most logically military minded people they certainly knew how to turtle the hell up when they needed.
Its also one of the reason why they used car and truck bombs to take out the oribital command centers planetside before the attack, simply because they could get to them with their viruses without protracted fights..
As for E-war abilities its abit hit and miss with canon, it was implied that the only way the cylons could fight the modern fleet was by installing a backdoor in the CNP and certainly do it before the CNP became active. This implies that they were afraid of the colonials abilities to fight them. In one of the canon comic stories its mentioned that colonial intelligence actual kept a first war cylon brain in their basement, and they would use it to test out their software before approving it, its mentioned thats why they originally landed in so many numbers on picon after they nuked the station.
The reason they were able to hack the galactica so quickly when it was networked was becuase of her commanders and her tech, she was 40years old and mostly analgoue. coupled that with all her commanders refused pointedly to update any of her computer systems including her landing bays odds are they still used the original programs which the cylons would have had as a legacy. and even then they werent 100% effective.
The other example was the pegasus, even when they broadcasted the virus to the systems they could along with having an internal saboture onboard, it still was able to break free from her berth, fire her close in weapons systems, and finally program and utilise a pure random jump fast enough to avoid inbound nukes, and it took meer hours to purge her systems and bring her network backup.
As for intelligence if you watch the episodes with the cylons in, you notice that pretty much all the cylons seem to be pretty dumb, they all seem to be programed for one job only you rarely see them doing things to far out of their duties unless they are named chars or rogues. and when you compare the biocylons to the mech cylons its even more apparant.
When the inhibitors are removed the mech cylons rapid start to outpace the biocylons to the point that cavil lobotomises the raiders, i mean look at SCAR he became downright lethal once he could be resurrected and his inhibator was off.
Techwise the mech cylons were inventors/engineers/soldiers/sailors and even morbidly doctors. yes they were programmed originally dut they rapidly evolved. hence you ended up with the first versions of updated baseships, the cylon tanks, smart missles/torpedos, the various cylon ships for escorts. They even invented the first hybrid(knighmarish but true). The biocylons didnt invent anything really, everything they used was basically either simply minitarised or given to them from the final five. It was even said the basehips they had were simply scaled down versions of the Colony the final five created for them.
Same goes for processing power, its great having it and using it to simulation 10`000s of manhours, the problem is utilising that information. Just look at the ajax AFV here in the UK its had millions of manhours sunk into it, along with billions of pounds and in the end all he have is a tracked box that actually injures its crew when used. and thats been designed by people that are supposdly the best in their fields, and by a company thats one of the top military contractors on the planet.
The odds of some random person melded to a computer being a even basics shuttle right out of the box is tiny, never mind baseships or battlestars. and whats worse is any engineer will tell you modifying a design is a hell ov a lot harder than from scratch, as most things are their for a reason, remove on part even a rivet or weld might compromise hundreds of other things. you would literally need to simulate every single change for every single thing. otherwise it might fail at the worse moment.
Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
A backdoor to shut down the entire Colonial fleet simultaneously, allowing the all the colonies to immediately get nuked. I think that's a fair reason to say that the project was a failure.
Granted, you are right that the backdoor helped, and maybe without it the system would be unhackable.
Or more likely, the Cylons would be able to hammer the system with E-War like we see them do to Galactica, and Colonial ships would just turn off their CNP and operate normally without it, which would still be a win for the Cylons but a much lesser one.
In any case, from what we see of Cylon E-War, the Colonials don't seem to be able to compete, and if the MC can't contest the Cylons in E-War, that means he has the same networking limitations the Colonials operate under, so his Battlestar will need independent computer brains to carry out his orders without direct communication being available to him.
If the MC isn't equipped with design abilities, he will be extremely limited in new production, yes. And if he is stuck running a 1x human speed, he won't be creating much of anything new period, save kitbashing components together and seeing what does and doesn't work. (Which is actually a sadly underappreciated design style, I love Zwiling planes for example)
Sorry to break it to you but the colonials had a gunstar that was mostly engines and could outrun fighters and was hilariously agile.
It was the Gunstar Defender. apparantly it was never able to operate at 100% as its drive would contort the ships frame, they even made it so the heavy batteries recessed into the hull so it got more speed(not sure how that works in space!!)
It originated in the OBSG but still ended up in NBSG there was even a civilianised version in the refugee fleet stock footage.
Its also in blood and chrome, but the sizes are super weird as in BNC it was bigger than the jupiter class.
Abit of trivia, two intresting points, are one the ship was also in the Firefly movie and was a captured reaver ship(cannibal space humans) and was actually seemingly based of a fan design from back in 2001 which is cool but makes me wonder if they asked the original maker to use it.
Cave_Canem
Giant Transforming Robot
Basically, this.
Daidalos thinks somewhat faster than a human (not 'every second is an eternity' or dodging bullets, but just a bit faster), but his main advantage is in multitasking due to having a bunch of MCP's connected together.
That's great for micromanaging ship tasks or individual units in combat, but not as much for knowledge related tasks.
So, he can put thousands of manhours into something... But those thousands of man hours are from someone that needs to figure out the ship design software as well as the simple basics of building ships themselves, and there's only so much you can parralelize learning.
Yes, there is still whatever was used to finalize the Jupiter design, but I don't even know how to use a 3D modelling tool.
Daidalos is supposed to be a more 'real' SI, with both the advantages and disadvantages if having the psyche of a frankly pretty average present day human. One of those is that even with a thousand of me I can't build you a battlestar.
Edit:
Just focusing in on this a bit...
Yes.
Colonials don't have FTL communications and only a fraking idiot brings their entire industrial output anywhere near a fight if they can help it.
Daidalos has no urge to pull a Supremacy.
Accordingly, Daidalos's ships will need and always have needed their own MCP to operate independently, this doesn't change anything.
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Erm he CNP program did do exactly what they intended it to do, the cylons added a few lines of code specifically to allow them to broadcast a virus either through the communications array or through the sensors, they talk about it pretty early on, and when pegasus is examined and used it is using a unsabotage version of the CNP to run as all their guns are automated they arent human crewed. its how the pegasus was able to core baseships when it rescued the galactica and how it seemingly steered into the final collision course. you can even see when it powers up its engines to gain more speed even when the crew is already evac`d, (unless theres an engineer who stayed behind).
Whats even more impressive is it takes baltar mere moments to diagnose and find a solution to the problem when he examines it in one episode, he doesnt bring it up as he things rightly they might blame him for everything.
the other thing is the virus isnt even something that advanced or even hard to get rid of, in one episode the literal do what call centers tell you to do when your pc stops working, Turn it off and then on again. and it seems to purge it. The also had a older version of the CNP system that was what the new one was replacing i think it was called the Fleet navigation program. and its mention in the first episode where they basically tell them to format and install it back onto the remaining mark 7s will the mark 2`s fight it out with the raiders.