And you're being an hypocrite here. If you agree with period compliance, then the age difference and sexual attraction should not be an issue, as it was nothing to write home about back then. 50+ men married to eight year old girls happened, granted usually for political reasons, as the moral of a marriage was dictated by the families, even in commoner families. and age difference was not a factor. That simply is your prejudice rearing its ugly head.
You're arguing that we should be totally a-ok with a fifty-year-old marrying an eight-year-old because it's "nothing to write home about" for it's period?
Would you be singing the same tune if our modern-era self-insert and medieval-era native character were those ages, or would you be concerned that the author was using his self-insert as a paper-thin justification for "legal pedophilia?"
The perverse duality of reader-author relations dictates that yes, the author is not required to listen to the readers; however, it also means they abandoned the right to complain about how readers respond to their work the moment they committed it to the public sphere. If the readers chose to tell the author what to write, they may.
And most importantly, that the author is not required to listen to the readers does not mean they are forbidden or even that they should not. As the captain, they are perfectly allowed to drive their ship onto the rocks. This does not mean that doing so is or should be justified, wise, or consequence-free. Even if readers are rarely a font of good ideas for where to go next they tend to be pretty good about what they don't want.
Guys, this is a debate that's never going to get anywhere productive and threatens to get somewhere really bad, how about you all just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
The perverse duality of reader-author relations dictates that yes, the author is not required to listen to the readers; however, it also means they abandoned the right to complain about how readers respond to their work the moment they committed it to the public sphere. If the readers chose to tell the author what to write, they may.
The author still retains the "right" to complain about the readers' response because it's not actually a right. He is perfectly allowed to complain about it, even if it's his fault, be it from poor writing skills, bad storytelling, or whatever.
And no, the readers do not have the "right" to tell the author what to write. They do have the right to have their own opinions, and express them, specially if the media, like FFN or here, allows for feedback to be sent to the author. Do not confuse expressing an opinion with ordering the author around, as they are entirely two different things.
For the other discussion, it's clear that people confuse "morals" with "morality", and I'm not arguing the point further. Making a law out of morality makes for an immoral law, and very dangerous to have in a corpus iuris, as it has been demonstrated more than once.
From what little I can recall of the myriad of ZnT threads on SB, LN Louise looks like a perfectly normal girl her age who just suffers from feeling inadequate because most of her peers are, to put it politely, generously blessed; she's only lolicon trash fetish bait in the anime.
Actually, Louise is exactly the opposite to a "perfectly normal girl her age" even in the light novels. She is a tsundere through and through, with the characteristic traits of "boys are idiots" and "adult things like kissing are icky" from childhood. A "perfectly normal girl her age" does not resort to physical violence, doubly so in the hyper-polite Japanese society. So even if for the purpose of comedy, she has mental issues. Bad ones. Made more so by her inability to use magic in a "normal" way.
Nope, she is a tsundere cranked to 11 for both increased comedic effect and making any romantic advances slow to a crawl, and at some points, even going backwards.
If her character was so unidimensional as you make her to be, there wouldn't be any fanfiction of it, and it wouldn't have had the success it had.
Actually, Louise is exactly the opposite to a "perfectly normal girl her age" even in the light novels. She is a tsundere through and through, with the characteristic traits of "boys are idiots" and "adult things like kissing are icky" from childhood. A "perfectly normal girl her age" does not resort to physical violence, doubly so in the hyper-polite Japanese society. So even if for the purpose of comedy, she has mental issues. Bad ones. Made more so by her inability to use magic in a "normal" way.
Nope, she is a tsundere cranked to 11 for both increased comedic effect and making any romantic advances slow to a crawl, and at some points, even going backwards.
If her character was so unidimensional as you make her to be, there wouldn't be any fanfiction of it, and it wouldn't have had the success it had.
AFAIK, that applies to the manga and the anime, not the light novels. While I'm fairly sure the LNs do include a physical description, the key issue he is talking about is characterization rather than appearance. He makes a point on commenting the looks in the anime, and being quite judgemental and prejudiced about them.
But his main points are implicitly about characterization due to the fact that both light novels and fanfics are text-based media.
It's kinda funny to me that you objected to the idea that she's a one-dimensional character since she has lots of unique character traits, like being extremely tsundere, end of list.
@Darth Thanatos, there are some severe issues with this post and your whole line of discussion here. The biggest one happens to be the disruption caused. You basically jumped in the thread and declared that the OP is a hypocrite for not liking something. You also borderline defend pedophilia because it's "period compliance." This is a definite violation of Rule 4. It's an edge case on Rule 6 that I'm leaning toward saying that part deserves a staff notice. Because 'do not sexualize minors' is a thing, and while you weren't directly doing that, what you wrote had implications.
That said, the disruption violation outweighs the Rule 6 edge case. You violated Rule 4, as such I am giving you 25 points and a three day threadban.
And you're being an hypocrite here. If you agree with period compliance, then the age difference and sexual attraction should not be an issue, as it was nothing to write home about back then. 50+ men married to eight year old girls happened, granted usually for political reasons, as the moral of a marriage was dictated by the families, even in commoner families. and age difference was not a factor. That simply is your prejudice rearing its ugly head.
Nope. That's the whole point. It's normal to perv on someone you find attractive. Acting on that or letting those thoughts show is another thing. You are acting as thought police here, which is in my book, way worse and more immoral than the perceived immorality you are commenting on.
Which brings me to the point of my post:
"THOU SHALL NOT TELL THE WRITER WHAT TO WRITE. EVER."
Correcting grammar and spelling is okay. In the case of deviations on canon characters, pointing to characterization flaws is also okay, unless the author wrote them that way on purpose and for some reason, in which case insisting on changing that is plain wrong. But here we are talking about an OC/SI character that is totally new, with no base characterization from canon to draw upon.
Simply put, if you don't like how the character is portrayed, you drop the story and move on. The story is clearly not meant for you. You can leave your opinion as a reader, but it's just that: you personal opinion about the story. Thinking that your opinion merits a rewrite of the story according to your prejudices is incredibly arrogant.
Just to be clear and to the point: telling an author how to write may improve his writing and result in a more enjoyable story, telling the author what to write, though, is simply wrong.
Just to let everyone know: you are entirely free to disagree with me on my rulings. This entire exercise is extremely subjective, and I'm perfectly willing to let people discuss in between posts. Just keep that mod ruling in mind as you do, okay?
By: Captain Hair
9-year old Ichigo lived and died about 100 years ago. Sent to district 78 of South Rukongai, Inuzuri, you can guess who he'll meet. He was the one who changed her world. But now he's going to change it, right from the very beginning. Perhaps in death, they'll find happiness. It is but the next great journey...
Rated: Fiction T - English - Adventure/Romance - Ichigo K., Rukia K. - Chapters: 51 - Words: 296,883 - Reviews: 2,145 - Favs: 2,580 - Follows: 2,722 - Updated: Mar 5, 2016 - Published: May 13, 2012 - id: 8114428
Impressions before reading:
Ah, yes, Captain!Ichigo. And one that's pre-canon instead of post-canon, even. Considering I've been batting around a similar idea for a while, I'm looking forward to this.
Review:
You know what's worse than reading a bad fanfic? Reading a bad fanfic and not being quite able to articulate why.
I mean, it's boring. That's the big reason why this is getting kicked off the list at the end. But again, I'm struggling to say why it's boring. A lot of it is dialogue-related, I think: a criminal lack of voice, tendencies towards expository wording, and a bad case of Talking Heads Syndrome. But that's not all of it, either.
I think the big problem is that there's a dire lack of a hook. Ichigo and Rukia becoming friends in Inuzuri could, potentially, be a good story. But here, it's a prelude to Soul Society action, and the reader naturally gravitates towards the latter. Or, at least, I do. Add in the poor execution - among other things, their banter falls flat as a pancake - and... well...
Changing the early backstory of the main character is always something that I view with suspicion, since it's usually a recipe for -INO situations.
I'm not familiar with this story, so I don't know if its the case here, but its always a warning sign. Still, it can be done well, and I have seem it being
done well.
Changing the early backstory of the main character is always something that I view with suspicion, since it's usually a recipe for -INO situations.
I'm not familiar with this story, so I don't know if its the case here, but its always a warning sign. Still, it can be done well, and I have seem it being
done well.
By: Endfall
The end of a long story. A man ground through ten thousand years of war and survival will meet a boy taking the first steps down that same road. Old truths will be uncovered. Kings will be summoned. Judgement is nigh. This is the First, Last, and Final Holy Grail War. This is The Game of Kings. [AU/Spoilers for Entirety of Nasuverse.]
Rated: Fiction T - English - Adventure - Shirō E., EMIYA - Chapters: 5 - Words: 53,105 - Reviews: 126 - Favs: 426 - Follows: 442 - Updated: Jan 4, 2015 - Published: Jun 1, 2012 - id: 8170849
Impressions before reading:
Another entry on the "read at some point before not reading updates" list, I'm honestly not sure what this was about, other than the fact that I got an impression of pretentiousness.
Review:
I'm still not sure what this is about. You can confirm the pretentiousness, though.
Look. The Game of Kings is, on a technical level, well-done, and when the story bothers to ground itself it's very good. The problem is that the story only grounds itself about half the time. The other half is metaphor and mythos and flowery purple prose that coyly hints but never says anything. Look. I've talked about showing instead of telling, and that principle of writing has gotten stories kicked off of here before. But The Game of Kings has the opposite problem: there's so much showing that the story never slows down to make sure the reader knows what the fuck is going on.
The result is a story that spends a remarkable amount of time doing nothing at all. It's all setup for whatever big Holy Grail War action the author is trying to set up, but when you take over fifty goddamn thousand words and spend a large chunk of them on events that are only tenuously connected to what your high concept seems to be, then you've got a goddamn problem.
Really, the author should've just done a post-HGW character study of Waver Velvet, since that's easily the most interesting and easy-to-follow part of the story.
But anyway, when I read fifty thousand words and still aren't sure what the story is about... you've got a problem.
By: lalunaticscribe
A storm sweeps the Thousand Sunny into the centre of the British Empire, in the summer of 1889 of the Victorian Age.The foremost detective of the century is about to have his logic challenged by one man... the pirate captain, Monkey D. Luffy. Written under then Creative Commons. One Piece belongs to Eiichiro Oda, Sherlock Holmes to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. COMPLETE
Rated: Fiction T - English - Supernatural/Mystery - Straw Hats P. - Chapters: 7 - Words: 15,572 - Reviews: 57 - Favs: 221 - Follows: 77 - Updated: Jul 8, 2012 - Published: Jun 7, 2012 - Status: Complete - id: 8192561
Impressions before reading:
Sherlock Holmes. And One Piece. One half a fairly grounded story, the other... being One Piece. There had better be some serious brain-breaking shenanigans.
Review:
Author lalunaticscribe has a knack for tone, nailing both the Sherlock Holmes feel1 and Robin's own distinct voice. The Straw Hat Pirates are, of course, as delightfully nutty as ever, much to the consternation of Holmes and Watson.
Sadly, the actual plot is disappointing. Holmes and Watson do little other than get swept up in the events surrounding the crew - understandable, perhaps, but annoying. And there's not resolution on the dead man found near Luffy.
Verdict: Ah, what the hell. It's fun enough I can ignore the flaws. Keeping.
By: evansentranced
After the Dursleys abandon six year old Harry in a park in Kent, Harry comes to the realization that he is an elf. Not a house elf, though. A forest elf. Never mind wizards vs muggles; Harry has his own thing going on. Character study, pre-Hogwarts, NOT a creature!fic, slightly cracky.
Rated: Fiction T - English - Adventure - Harry P. - Chapters: 12 - Words: 38,289 - Reviews: 855 - Favs: 4,220 - Follows: 1,596 - Updated: Sep 8, 2012 - Published: Jun 8, 2012 - Status: Complete - id: 8197451
Impressions before reading:
Why does this feel like one of those fics I like as much because I haven't read that many Harry Potter fics as the story's own merits? Oh, yeah, since it needs to reassure readers that it's not a creature!fic. I don't know what, exactly, a creature!fic is, but I can guess and it's probably a blight on the fanfiction scene.
Review:
Let me get this out of the way first: GOD, FUCK THE DURSLEYS! SIDEWAYS! WITH A FLAMING CACTUS!
They're especially bad, this time. I continue to be impressed by the ability of fanfiction authors in depicting abuse victims2; the above was mostly in response to the Dursleys leaving Harry behind in the first place, but for convincing him that the police are dangerous? Two cactuses. In every orifice. Unlimited Cactus Works.
The rest is basically Harry steadily descending into a feral child. lalunaticscribe describes him as a "sentient animal" in mindset, and this distressingly accurate. Despite the depressing causes, it is fun watching Harry scamper around Britain playing mysterious elf.
Verdict: Which earns it a continued spot on The List.
By: cerokun
The adventure continues! Ichigo and company have successfully rescued Rukia from Soul Society. All they want now is to relax. Yeah, like that's going to happen. As always, no plan survives first contact. Sequel to "Not Quite as Planned". Read that first or you'll be completely lost.
Rated: Fiction M - English - Adventure - Ichigo K. - Chapters: 12 - Words: 30,629 - Reviews: 1,006 - Favs: 2,135 - Follows: 2,406 - Updated: Dec 26, 2014 - Published: Jun 13, 2012 - id: 8214538
Impressions before reading:
The sequel to Not Quite As Planned, a Bleach fic I heartily enjoyed. I remember this one being not quite as fun, and I have a theory why I'll share in the review section.
Review:
Nope! Still the Not Quite as Planned goodness you come to expect from cerokun. The jokes are excellent, the characterization is on-point. There's only one problem:
The pacing is slower than the first story.
There's a reason for that, of course. Cerokun is going for a major gambit pileup involving filler and movie villains. Shusuke Amagai, the Bounts, and the Valley of Screams are all active simultaneously, which means the story slows down to cover all their actions and plans. Compounding the problem is that there's no payoff. Oh, I wish this would come back, just so we could see the glorious gambit pileup sure to result.
Verdict: Keep anyway.
Grain of salt here. It's been ages since I've read any Sherlock Holmes. Original Sherlock Holmes.
And really don't want to think about why. Some of the stories in the This Bites! Discord...
Fate:Zero Sense by The Infamous Manreviews
In the beginning of the Fourth Holy Grail War, seven Masters summoned their Servants to fight. However with the exception of one, six Masters... didn't quite get the Servants they were expecting.
Crossover - Anime X-overs & Fate/stay night - Rated: M - English - Humor/Drama - Chapters: 20 - Words: 109,266 - Reviews: 884 - Favs: 1,104 - Follows: 491 - Updated: Aug 15, 2012 - Published: Jun 21, 2012 - Waver V. - Complete
Impressions before reading:
So, this sucker came up during my last review of a TIM fic. Fate: Zero Sense is as much a creation of cerokun as TIM. I have the proof right in NQaP II: TIM was inspired by a premise cerokun put up for grabs on his profile. Further, Fate: Zero Sense is a mild Original Sin fanfic. While Crossover Servant fics certainly existed before Fate: Zero Sense, most of those were of a single crossover character. As far as I know, Fate: Zero Sense popularized turning it into a multicross. That, and also ramping up the comedy and leaving one hapless canon servant behind to act as the straight man to the shenanigans.
Put another way, this is a whole mixed bag of good and bad precedents, so I'm not entirely sure what I'm getting myself into.
Review:
Yuck. Yuckyuckyuckyuckyuck.
I will admit, this fic is far better written than the last TIM fic I've read. The grammatical errors are fewer, and the actions taken are more sensible. Well. In-character sensible, considering Deadpool is involved here.
The problem is, that was an extremely low bar to clear. The writing here is still a mess of missing contractions, awkward and repetitive sentence construction, and overall it gets my inner editor screaming at me to fix things. Not fun.
Further, not all of the servants really work here. Kamina, of course, slots into the Iskandar role extremely well, and with my memory (as usual) of the fic coming back to me, I'll admit that TIM handles the roles Deadpool and Shinji Ikari fit very well. Sasuke and Grimmjow, on the other hand, are just kinda... there for most of the fic's run. They don't have any real connections to the other Servants like the ones they're replacing, and they don't push and influence the Holy Grail War otherwise. And I do not remember a damn thing of what Vash does.
My point is, 16/18, especially in a medieval culture where age of maturity is lower, is high enough to be past the especially squeamish elements of age differences
The thing is that they judged "physical maturity" differently in the first place, such that the things they were looking for, namely proper onset of puberty, did indeed occur at around 15 years of age. The needed degree of mental maturity for adults of the time was also present at around that age. The boundary between Pedophilia (attraction to prepubescents), Hebephilia (attraction to early pubescent people, the 11-14 range today) and Ephebophilia (late pubescence, the 15-19 range today) essentially skipped over Hebephilia altogether in medieval times because the three age groupings were so close and they had little concept of such differences. The entire idea of teenagers existing in between adulthood and childhood flat-out didn't exist until some time in the 1900s, codifying in the late 1940s due to WW2's following "boom" giving a lot of adolescent freedom, because there simply wasn't any practical boundary between young adults and teenagers sufficient to put something between children and adults.
Rather importantly, even in modern times, Ephebophilia is seen as skeevy but not abhorrent in a large number of quite developed parts of the world. This is probably why you have hypersexualization of anything over 14 in Japan (and I mean anything), because they draw the line of easily tolerated at 15 or so. A lot of places have the age of consent at 16 or less, actually most places do, with some having specific clauses that enable 16-18 year olds to have sex with people as old as 30. Heck, quite a few European countries put age of consent at 14, with Albania having a sexual maturity clause to essentially specifically define Ephebophilia as legal and Andorra has an interesting clause rendering sex with subordinates illegal in general. The US is one of the prudish weirdos by being so hostile towards teenage sex.
SO
Yeah Zero Sense was funny as heck, but yeah...Sasuke wasn't as much of a highlight as say, Deadpool, Shinji-Get in the damn Robot-Ikari, and Kamina.
