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CV12Hornet Cleans Out His Fanfiction Favorites List (Beware of Shit Taste)

Which list should I go through first?

  • Fanfiction.net

    Votes: 24 66.7%

  • FIMfiction.net

    Votes: 8 22.2%

  • Spacebattles

    Votes: 2 5.6%

  • Sufficient Velocity.

    Votes: 2 5.6%
  • Total voters
    36
  • Poll closed .
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An American Geek in a Halkeginian Court
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    • An American Geek in a Halkeginian Court

    By: Inner Legions
    An American commits cultural appropriation against a hapless Japanese youth. Typical, just typical. WARNING: CONTAINS RAW, GRAPHIC KIPLING. May only be suitable for mature readers.
    Rated: Fiction M - English - Romance/Adventure - Louise, OC - Chapters: 40 - Words: 545,636 - Reviews: 538 - Favs: 1,231 - Follows: 1,316 - Updated: Nov 14, 2017 - Published: May 12, 2012 - id: 8110477
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    Impressions before reading:
    Remember what I said about the familiar summoning ritual being a really good vehicle for crossovers? It's also an exceptionally good vehicle for self-inserts. That's what this is, and on top of that it's a very Spacebattles SI. Into a medieval setting. I expect much tech uplifting efforts.

    Review:


    On the one hand, there's actually quite a bit to like about An American Geek. On a technical level, the writing leaves little to complain about. It's crisp, flows well, and is only very rarely awkward or confusing. The one issue is that sometimes it tricks me into thinking it's first-person instead of third, but meh. And the author puts in a lot of work towards verisimilitude and some more... period-sensible worldbuilding. Like clothing. Canon ZnT shows the Academy's uniform for girls as... basically a Japanese school uniform with a cape, complete with miniskirt and elastic panties. As you might guess, this is not particularly realistic for an actual Renaissance-era setting. Louise's school uniform here has a long skirt and features a much more complex and frankly uncomfortable-sounding set of undergarments.

    This carries over to a lot of other things, like the translation spell not working on certain words and concepts that Tristainian and English don't share, to say nothing of idioms or poetic verse. Or sandwiches being a new concept to Halkeginia1​. Or, most notably, turning ZnT magic into a proper system, which as I understand it it really wasn't in canon. A lot more thought is put into mechanics and progressions2​ and how ubiquitous magic would affect how nobles live their lives. That last is what really separates this attempt from the usual Spacebattles schlock: Louise's issues with magic mean that she has to do a lot of things the commoner way, which drives a lot of characterization for her.

    Speaking of, Louise is abrasive and temperamental here, but she's not the poster child for badly-written tsunderes. Hell, here I'd say she's a well-written tsundere, in that she doesn't go over the top with her reactions and we're given more reason as to why she's the way she is. It helps that the OC/SI establishes boundaries early and doesn't budge from them. His characterization is mostly on point, too - I say mostly, for reasons I'll get to shortly - and you're also given enough backstory to see why he's the way he is. Also? Saito's stereotypes about Americans upon briefly seeing him in the second chapter are hilarious.

    Oh, and the fic skips over the early stations of canon.

    Which is a nice segway into why I'm conflicted about this fic. First, and most importantly, the relationship between the OC/SI, Jason, and Louise. Now, on the one side, Jason is supportive, friendly, and patient but firm with Louise without being condescending about it. It's a different combination than Hill of Swords, but it works here, too. Hell, he might be a little too easygoing about things, but that's easily handwaved by the familiar bond. However, there's one more aspect to the fic: Jason3​ is sexually attracted to Louise and it creeps me the fuck out. Honestly, if we weren't privy to his inner thoughts this wouldn't bother me nearly so bad, even if the story is slowly moving towards a Jason/Louise ship, because it all too often dips into outright perving. I dunno, maybe it's the fact that I'm an SB Amicus now so I've seen way too much of this shit over the past couple of months, but it bothers me greatly.

    So, yeah, that was my status until recently, when the story finally hit a Station: the Charming Fairy Inn. Now, I'm not conflicted! Because all the good stuff I mentioned earlier doesn't changed the fact that the current arc is boring as fuck. All the major plot threads from the first arc are essentially locked into a holding pattern in favor of... well, the kind of light novel harem romcom bullshit people write ZnT to generally avoid. Ugh. I've tried to power through it and see if it gets better later on, but I've given up at this point.

    Verdict:


    1. As ubiquitous and intuitive as the sandwich is to modern eyes, it's easy to forget that, in its modern form, the sandwich is an 18th-century invention.
    2. Can you tell this is a Spacebattles fic?
    3. Who's at least 23.
     
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    • I am surprised you got that far. I think I gave up around the 2nd or 3rd chapter. Really the only FoZ stories I have fate in are the ones that do not give a fuck about the canon and...Hmm, I can't remember... Wait, the ones that die off really early because they have lots of hooks with no downside because the story died to early to see the downsides.
     
    Louise is a 16-year old at least, her size just gives an unfortunate impression. I just tried to view it as the SI becoming attracted to Louise as a person, not because she has the body of a child. As a result, I could handle that element decently enough.

    Also, the author at least works really hard to take in constructive criticism. He spent a lot of time reworking older chapters to improve them once he got feedback. So if you have any issues with the fic, it's not a bad idea to bring them up with him directly. Who know? He might take your problems into consideration.

    Also, while the story is staying true somewhat to ZnT's rom-com roots, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, because it does help it stick out from fics that throw out that genre altogether (which in itself can be problematic since it can feel like you're breaking too much from the original spirit of the series). And it's not like he's just sticking to the old stations, he's bringing in a lot of interesting twists and exploring new angles of the relationship. So while the fic isn't without its flaws, I do feel that, of the many FoZ fics I've read, it is the most successful at building beyond the limited scope of the canon while still embodying the overall spirit of the original.
     
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    I remember that fic...
    completely forgot about that...
    I remember it had some interesting things, and Jason introduced all kinds of things and was went into the ramifications of them...
     
    If I remember right part of the jutisification is she is 16 by Halk standards but the year is longer there so it turns out she is 18 according to Earth standards
     
    Suryn said:
    If I remember right part of the jutisification is she is 16 by Halk standards but the year is longer there so it turns out she is 18 according to Earth standards
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    Two things.

    1) That's still fairly creepy.
    2) Fucking Transformers had a better argument when they tried something like this. When Michael Bay does a better job of justifying this sort of thing than you did, you know you dun fucked up.
     
    Look, Louise's age/appearance is an elephant that, no matter how you look at it, is always in the room for ZnT fics, and since Albert is trying to go for a similar, albeit improved feel to the original story, he can't really avoid it. The age difference isn't that big overall - even if you go by the 16 marker, that's just 7 years, and a difference in ages isn't as important once you get past youth and both sides are mature. You also have to consider that there's a culture clash where medieval cultures like Louise's often give adulthood a lower threshold and have less of an issue about age differences given the popularity of arranged marriages (just look at the canonical arranged marriage between Louise and Wardes - while it never got fulfilled, that was more of Wardes being a jerk/traitor than the age issue). I give the author props for at least trying to somewhat address the complexities of such a relationship and bringing in the different cultural aspects.

    Point is, I think that people are really making a mountain out of a molehill on the whole issue. The reasoning for the pairing is relatively plausible and fleshed out enough to satisfy me. Heck, Sailor Moon had the whole Usagi/Mamoru relationship justified by deus ex machina reincarnation, and I've still found things to be okay. This fic's pairing isn't enough to make me give up on the story or the romance. And if you have an issue with it, just go and talk to him about it; he's actually responded well to feedback and has been trying to handle things realistically, so if you share your concerns he might do something about it.
     
    Cataquack said:
    so if you share your concerns he might do something about it.
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    If he was gonna not do this he could have made the choice way back at the start not to make the SI 23. I keep saying this but the author is effectively omnipotent and nothing a story happens save by the author's making it so. And now that he's done it it's a problem and it's not just a problem with the story that can be retconned, it's a problem with the author's attitudes that let it happen in the first place.
     
    My point is, 16/18, especially in a medieval culture where age of maturity is lower, is high enough to be past the especially squeamish elements of age differences. Still a little uneasy, but not the worst it could be. By both cultures's standards, the two are each at about the same state of being at the verge of maturity.

    That aside, I think that the author is making the best he can of a bad hand. Louise is well-known for having a young-looking demeanor. He made the best of the circumstances as he could, and since he's been trying to find ways to improve his work, if you share your concerns with him, he might temper things a little. I know in the past he's expressed uncertainty on how to handle the relationship, so it's not like he's unwilling to change. He made some early mistakes, but he's really improved his act since the beginning, in part due to constructive feedback. He fact that he spent a lot of time outright rewriting old arcs shows his willingness to change.
     
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    Cataquack said:
    My point is, 16/18, especially in a medieval culture where age of maturity is lower, is high enough to be past the especially squeamish elements of age differences. Still a little uneasy, but not the worst it could be. By both cultures's standards, the two are each at about the same state of being at the verge of maturity.

    That aside, I think that the author is making the best he can of a bad hand. Louise is well-known for having a young-looking demeanor. He made the best of the circumstances as he could, and since he's been trying to find ways to improve his work, if you share your concerns with him, he might temper things a little. I know in the past he's expressed uncertainty on how to handle the relationship, so it's not like he's unwilling to change. He's really improved his act since the beginning, in part due to constructive feedback .
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    Can you stop? You're barking up the wrong tree entirely. I wouldn't care overmuch about the age difference if it weren't for Jason perving on Louise in his thoughts, which soured me on the whole ship in the process. And even that might not have been a dealbreaker if the Charming Fairy arc hadn't bored me out of my skull.
     
    Yeah, the outright perving was a big blunder on his part. But I don't think it's irreversible. He's made significant changes to his fic in the past, so while the age difference is an issue that's always going to be present, if people point out the problem with him directly lusting after Louise in his thoughts, the problem is salvageable.

    Edit: Also, I'm sorry I sort of dragged this matter on.
     
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    Cataquack said:
    Yeah, the outright perving was a big blunder on his part. But I don't think it's irreversible. He's made significant changes to his fic in the past, so while the age difference is an issue that's always going to be present, if people point out the problem with him directly lusting after Louise in his thoughts, the problem is salvageable.
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    Then someone else is going to have to do it, because I can't be arsed to do so.
     
    Rule 4 violation: Disruptive posting.
    CV12Hornet said:
    However, there's one more aspect to the fic: Jason3 is sexually attracted to Louise and it creeps me the fuck out.
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    And you're being an hypocrite here. If you agree with period compliance, then the age difference and sexual attraction should not be an issue, as it was nothing to write home about back then. 50+ men married to eight year old girls happened, granted usually for political reasons, as the moral of a marriage was dictated by the families, even in commoner families. and age difference was not a factor. That simply is your prejudice rearing its ugly head.
    CV12Hornet said:
    Can you stop? You're barking up the wrong tree entirely. I wouldn't care overmuch about the age difference if it weren't for Jason perving on Louise in his thoughts, which soured me on the whole ship in the process.
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    Nope. That's the whole point. It's normal to perv on someone you find attractive. Acting on that or letting those thoughts show is another thing. You are acting as thought police here, which is in my book, way worse and more immoral than the perceived immorality you are commenting on.

    Which brings me to the point of my post:
    Cataquack said:
    Yeah, the outright perving was a big blunder on his part. But I don't think it's irreversible. He's made significant changes to his fic in the past, so while the age difference is an issue that's always going to be present, if people point out the problem with him directly lusting after Louise in his thoughts, the problem is salvageable.
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    "THOU SHALL NOT TELL THE WRITER WHAT TO WRITE. EVER."

    Correcting grammar and spelling is okay. In the case of deviations on canon characters, pointing to characterization flaws is also okay, unless the author wrote them that way on purpose and for some reason, in which case insisting on changing that is plain wrong. But here we are talking about an OC/SI character that is totally new, with no base characterization from canon to draw upon.

    Simply put, if you don't like how the character is portrayed, you drop the story and move on. The story is clearly not meant for you. You can leave your opinion as a reader, but it's just that: you personal opinion about the story. Thinking that your opinion merits a rewrite of the story according to your prejudices is incredibly arrogant.

    Just to be clear and to the point: telling an author how to write may improve his writing and result in a more enjoyable story, telling the author what to write, though, is simply wrong.
     
    Darth Thanatos said:
    And you're being an hypocrite here. If you agree with period compliance, then the age difference and sexual attraction should not be an issue, as it was nothing to write home about back then. 50+ men married to eight year old girls happened, granted usually for political reasons, as the moral of a marriage was dictated by the families, even in commoner families. and age difference was not a factor. That simply is your prejudice rearing its ugly head.
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    Isn't the 23 year old in question summoned from modern day earth? So this wouldn't really apply to that.
    Though, even if it did, I don't think it would necessarily be hypocritical to enjoy period accuracy in most things but to feel the creepy aspect of the internal monologue of a 23 year old being attracted to a 16 year old outweighs any benefits of the accuracy.
     
    cB557 said:
    Isn't the 23 year old in question summoned from modern day earth? So this wouldn't really apply to that.
    Though, even if it did, I don't think it would necessarily be hypocritical to enjoy period accuracy in most things but to feel the creepy aspect of the internal monologue of a 23 year old being attracted to a 16 year old outweighs any benefits of the accuracy.
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    That's almost the age difference between my parents when they met and started dating. My father was finishing medical residence, and my mother was starting Nurse School practice at the same hospital. They married way later, at the more respectable ages of 35 and 26, but in today's society, their relationship would not only have been nipped in the bud, but ended with my father in jail.

    And that didn't happen centuries ago. It's my parents we are talking about.

    As for the internal monologue of a 23 year old, he may or may not find himself creeped by the attraction. He, at least, has the decency of being honest with himself, with no internal censorship. What he allows to come out into the open, though, conforms to today's standards. It tells me more about you and how brainwashed molded by society you are than about the character himself.

    Also, this was not the point of my post, so I'm dropping from this discussion.
     
    The whole "Historical Accuracy(tm) doesn't prevent my gag reflex from triggering" seems to have been covered, but there's another idea lurking here that I'm not really a fan of either.

    Cataquack said:
    That aside, I think that the author is making the best he can of a bad hand.
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    This isn't really true either, because canon isn't an ironclad, immutable thing. Especially once you're an author! Double Especially in a freaking Familiar of Zero fic! In this series especially you're given nearly infinite latitude to squish canon in any direction you want because most people either don't know or don't like the canon.

    If you want Louise to be 18, you just have to say she is. It's actually that simple. Just because the author didn't think to or didn't want to does not actually make it any less simple.

    "It's not his fault because the source material was a rotten foundation to begin with" doesn't work as an argument because as an author you have the power to fix that. He just didn't.
     
    Schwer-Muta said:
    "It's not his fault because the source material was a rotten foundation to begin with" doesn't work as an argument because as an author you have the power to fix that. He just didn't.
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    That is also true. Whether he did that due to negligence or on purpose, I cannot know, as I haven't read the story, or the comments from the author about why he chose to keep certain aspects of canon or drop some others.

    CV12Hornet's comments about the story hitting a dry spell and being consistently boring past a certain point do not entice me to read it myself and find out. But, in my experience, these kinds of dry spells usually come from the story having reached the point the author wanted to reach, and then going past that point in order to please the readership. I don't know if this is the case, though.
     
    cB557 said:
    Even if it's not illegal in some countries, a 23 year old wanting to get with a 16 year old is still pretty creepy.
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    I... don't really see anything wrong with that. 16 is legal here, and the age difference isn't that great. Late twenties and sixteen is where it starts getting creepy, because you would think by then the sexual tastes would have matured more.
     
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