See the vote. Tomi is explicitly only called in if Integra wants the help. And Tricksters are VERY hard to kill, so that aspect is less of a problem than it might be otherwise.
Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest)
- Thread starter The LD Creature
- Start date
Given the attacks that have happened in Japan I think we should be a bit cautious in what we are committing to Britain since our supernatural population is quite a bit more active than the one in Britain, especially so with all the attacks on the shrines weakening the Kami. While I'm all for helping Hellsing in killing the crap out of Nazi Vampires we also need to make sure our forces aren't too battered by London that we will become unable to fulfill our obligations on the home-front. Our presence has already derailed the canon version of the Major's (already seeing the butterflies such as using Schrodinger offensively against Japan) so we shouldn't assume his plan is the same as from canon. Alucard's comment makes me worry that we may be overplaying our hand here. We'll be dealing with our own war soon enough since Izanagi and Izanami are getting ready to slug it out and our forces will be required to clean up the spill-off from their fight.
Edit:
@The LD Man Does advocating for ghost fleet include deploying it or is it part of the deployment priority vote?
They tried that in canon before sending Alucard, Rip's bullets shredded the Tornadoes and the ASMs they launched. Considering the bullets could also make loops around a diving SR-71 I wouldn't be surprised if they could also target other munitions so short of using a torpedo armed attack sub there isn't really anything that can conventionally destroy the ship. Getting the the Ghost Fleet to begin heading for Britain to provide support would be IC since we don't know when Millennium will attack, they'll be very useful in providing fire-support against the vampires on the ground as well as having the Shokaku's planes attack the Zeppelins.
Edit:
@The LD Man Does advocating for ghost fleet include deploying it or is it part of the deployment priority vote?
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
The fleet is part of the deployment vote unless they are specified in the advocating vote. I figure you don't automatically want your fleet all the time, so you have to specify it. That said, it's basically a free deployment action, even if they are incredibly slow to get to London. Kagutsuchi and Tomi are also very low cost deployments, due to how much space and energy they take to transport. They can essentially take a civilian plane with little trouble.
Anyway, sorry for the radio silence, i've been sluggish and bedridden these last few days. The vote's been open a while, so tally?
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[X] Let her go through with it
[X] Agree with the plan
No. of votes: 1
Hydroplatypus
[X] Let her go through with it
[X] Deployment Priority:
[X] Advocate for using the Ghost Fleet
No. of votes: 5
Sinsystems, jwolfe_beta, Night_stalker, Ars Poetica, TheNotoriousSMP
[x] Let her go through with it
[x] List of units:
[x] Advocate for using the Ghost Fleet
No. of votes: 2
Shador, The3rdCorinthian
[X] Let her go through with it
-[X] Suggest Takauji to assist in her negotiations with the fae, given their similarities, and Takauji's past assistance with similar arrangements.
[X] Deployment priority
-[X] 0) Takauji(if Integra accepts)
-[X] 1) 9 Mystic Swordsmen
-[X] 2) 3 Sealing Squads
-[X] 3) 10 Rangers
-[X] 4) 50 Crow Flyers
-[X] 5) Bone Mecha
-[X] 6) Kagutsuchi
[X] Suggest that she not set the trap off, just bombard the damned thing to bits.
No. of votes: 5
veekie, Imaflatsquid, Slayer Anderson, wingstrike96, ShieldCrown
[X] Let her go through with it
-[X] Suggest Takauji to assist in her negotiations with the fae, given their similarities, and Takauji's past assistance with similar arrangements.
[X] Deployment priority
-[X] 0) Takauji(if Integra accepts)
-[X] 1) 9 Mystic Swordsmen
-[X] 2) 3 Sealing Squads
-[X] 3) 10 Rangers
-[X] 4) 50 Crow Flyers
-[X] 5) Bone Mecha
-[X] 6) Kagutsuchi
[X] Advocate for using the Ghost Fleet
-[X] Assign a Fubuki and Aoba to the task
No. of votes: 1
reborn214
Not a particularily elegant tally...
##### 3.21
[X] Let her go through with it
[X] Agree with the plan
No. of votes: 1
Hydroplatypus
[X] Let her go through with it
[X] Deployment Priority:
[X] Advocate for using the Ghost Fleet
No. of votes: 5
Sinsystems, jwolfe_beta, Night_stalker, Ars Poetica, TheNotoriousSMP
[x] Let her go through with it
[x] List of units:
[x] Advocate for using the Ghost Fleet
No. of votes: 2
Shador, The3rdCorinthian
[X] Let her go through with it
-[X] Suggest Takauji to assist in her negotiations with the fae, given their similarities, and Takauji's past assistance with similar arrangements.
[X] Deployment priority
-[X] 0) Takauji(if Integra accepts)
-[X] 1) 9 Mystic Swordsmen
-[X] 2) 3 Sealing Squads
-[X] 3) 10 Rangers
-[X] 4) 50 Crow Flyers
-[X] 5) Bone Mecha
-[X] 6) Kagutsuchi
[X] Suggest that she not set the trap off, just bombard the damned thing to bits.
No. of votes: 5
veekie, Imaflatsquid, Slayer Anderson, wingstrike96, ShieldCrown
[X] Let her go through with it
-[X] Suggest Takauji to assist in her negotiations with the fae, given their similarities, and Takauji's past assistance with similar arrangements.
[X] Deployment priority
-[X] 0) Takauji(if Integra accepts)
-[X] 1) 9 Mystic Swordsmen
-[X] 2) 3 Sealing Squads
-[X] 3) 10 Rangers
-[X] 4) 50 Crow Flyers
-[X] 5) Bone Mecha
-[X] 6) Kagutsuchi
[X] Advocate for using the Ghost Fleet
-[X] Assign a Fubuki and Aoba to the task
No. of votes: 1
reborn214
Not a particularily elegant tally...
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
Alternately the entire goal of the attack may be to keep us from committing as many assets as possible to the defense of Hellsing out of fear of an attack on the home front.
Seeing as how the original plan was, IIR, to make Alucard desperate enough to just go fuck it and absorb everything including the cat boy poison pill that's a possibility we can't ignore.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
[X] veekie
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
[X] veekie
Might as well actually vote here.
Might as well actually vote here.
Ars Poetica
ULTIMA RATIO NEMO OBLIGATUR
- Location
- The Kingdom of Fiore
- Pronouns
- He / Him / His
I feel like advising we send more flying units in to attack the ship is a poor decision. From an in-universe perspective, we're dealing with someone on that ship who has demonstrated the ability to shoot down multiple targets very easily. Why, oh god why, should we send more? That's the equivalent of doing something that failed all over again and expecting a different result.
Even if those flying things happen to be missiles, why does this make sense and how is this a leading option? At all?
Does this not strike anyone else as a bad idea?
- Location
- Canada
How about just switching bomb to torpedo. Doubt Rip can deal with a sub as easily as an airplane.
Highwind
To Rise From The Ashes
- Location
- Brazil
Get a Submarine or three there and close enough to fire a dozen torpedoes and the boat is toast. Actually, send something else as a distraction maybe a few Over-The-Horizon missiles so she's too busy laughing like a maniac at the explosions to notice the Torpedoes.
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
[X] veekie
Ars Poetica
ULTIMA RATIO NEMO OBLIGATUR
- Location
- The Kingdom of Fiore
- Pronouns
- He / Him / His
If we're just going to send submarines after her on the logic that she can't hit them, we really would be better off calling up the Ghost Fleet. Same logic, same reasoning, same justification; but the difference is time and numbers. If we send the submarines in, it might be fast. But there won't be many. And if they attack, Rip might still have the ability to fight back.
But with the Ghost Fleet, we have to wait for a much larger force. Doing that, and we'll be able to hit her with a heavier strike that can't be struck back at in turn. I'd rather wait and play it safe before going overkill on this trap while filling that area of the ocean with our Ghost Fleet than sit back and wait by sending manned submarines.
It's the safer option, it's the smarter option, and it leaves us a much better option for a counterattack. In-universe, we'd want naval superiority. From a meta perspective, we want those ships there to blast down any incoming zeppelins. It just makes more sense.
- Location
- New York
It may have just been the abridged series, but didn't they say the area around the ship was probably mined to hell?
Arkatekt
Harbinger of Shitluck
Vote Tally : Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest) | Page 191 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.5.6
[17] Let her go through with it
-[8] Plan: veekie — Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest) | Page 192
-[6] Plan: Sinsystems — Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest) | Page 192
-[1] Plan: Hydroplatypus — Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest) | Page 191
-[1] Plan: Shador — Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest) | Page 192
-[1] Plan: reborn214 — Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest) | Page 193
Total No. of Voters: 17
##### NetTally 1.5.6
[17] Let her go through with it
-[8] Plan: veekie — Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest) | Page 192
-[6] Plan: Sinsystems — Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest) | Page 192
-[1] Plan: Hydroplatypus — Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest) | Page 191
-[1] Plan: Shador — Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest) | Page 192
-[1] Plan: reborn214 — Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest) | Page 193
Total No. of Voters: 17
Vote Tally : Covered In Blood And Surrounded By Spirits (Hellsing CK2 Organization Quest) | Page 191 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.5.6
[X] Let her go through with it
-[X] Suggest Takauji to assist in her negotiations with the fae, given their similarities, and Takauji's past assistance with similar arrangements.
[X] Deployment priority
-[X] 0) Takauji(if Integra accepts)
-[X] 1) 9 Mystic Swordsmen
-[X] 2) 3 Sealing Squads
-[X] 3) 10 Rangers
-[X] 4) 50 Crow Flyers
-[X] 5) Bone Mecha
-[X] 6) Kagutsuchi
[X] Suggest that she not set the trap off, just bombard the damned thing to bits.
No. of Votes: 8
[X] Let her go through with it
[X] Deployment Priority:
[X] Advocate for using the Ghost Fleet
No. of Votes: 6
[X] Let her go through with it
[X] Agree with the plan
No. of Votes: 1
[x] Let her go through with it
[x] List of units:
[x] Advocate for using the Ghost Fleet
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Let her go through with it
-[X] Suggest Takauji to assist in her negotiations with the fae, given their similarities, and Takauji's past assistance with similar arrangements.
[X] Deployment priority
-[X] 0) Takauji(if Integra accepts)
-[X] 1) 9 Mystic Swordsmen
-[X] 2) 3 Sealing Squads
-[X] 3) 10 Rangers
-[X] 4) 50 Crow Flyers
-[X] 5) Bone Mecha
-[X] 6) Kagutsuchi
[X] Advocate for using the Ghost Fleet
-[X] Assign a Fubuki and Aoba to the task
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 17
##### NetTally 1.5.6
[X] Let her go through with it
-[X] Suggest Takauji to assist in her negotiations with the fae, given their similarities, and Takauji's past assistance with similar arrangements.
[X] Deployment priority
-[X] 0) Takauji(if Integra accepts)
-[X] 1) 9 Mystic Swordsmen
-[X] 2) 3 Sealing Squads
-[X] 3) 10 Rangers
-[X] 4) 50 Crow Flyers
-[X] 5) Bone Mecha
-[X] 6) Kagutsuchi
[X] Suggest that she not set the trap off, just bombard the damned thing to bits.
No. of Votes: 8
[X] Let her go through with it
[X] Deployment Priority:
[X] Advocate for using the Ghost Fleet
No. of Votes: 6
[X] Let her go through with it
[X] Agree with the plan
No. of Votes: 1
[x] Let her go through with it
[x] List of units:
[x] Advocate for using the Ghost Fleet
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Let her go through with it
-[X] Suggest Takauji to assist in her negotiations with the fae, given their similarities, and Takauji's past assistance with similar arrangements.
[X] Deployment priority
-[X] 0) Takauji(if Integra accepts)
-[X] 1) 9 Mystic Swordsmen
-[X] 2) 3 Sealing Squads
-[X] 3) 10 Rangers
-[X] 4) 50 Crow Flyers
-[X] 5) Bone Mecha
-[X] 6) Kagutsuchi
[X] Advocate for using the Ghost Fleet
-[X] Assign a Fubuki and Aoba to the task
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 17
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
To be blunt: With what? The ship has no weapons suitable to the task without its aircraft. It has a decent sonar system, I suppose, but anyone who's ASW'd can tell you that's not necessarily a defense. At best, Rip would be able to hear death coming as a wire-guided Tigerfish or Spearfish comes up under the keel.
Ars Poetica
ULTIMA RATIO NEMO OBLIGATUR
- Location
- The Kingdom of Fiore
- Pronouns
- He / Him / His
...It's like I'm in a room of people who've forgotten that Rip Van Winkle is like Hol Horse on crack. She can fire a bullet that can be guided and redirected to fly anywhere she wants it to in any way she wants it to. I can't imagine she wouldn't use magnificent bullshit to puncture submarines and decimate them. And with enhanced vampire senses, it seems likely to me that she could just look down and out and see the incoming submarines... assuming that she doesn't just use the ship's radar to determine where she needs to shoot.
Anyone have a calc on how far was the Blackbird when Rip shot at it?
Dream Logic
An offseason swallow
- Location
- In transit
[X[ Abstaining But Active
...I want to vote. Even if I'm not actually voting for anything in particular. Just seems rude to always sit on the sidelines with my half typed comments.
...I want to vote. Even if I'm not actually voting for anything in particular. Just seems rude to always sit on the sidelines with my half typed comments.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
That's great.
You have no idea what you're talking about though, so sit back and let me educate you.
Unless you're telling me Rip can fire through 60-150 feet of water (realistically more, with the slantwise angles; bear in mind water is incompressible and even our own Ghost Fleet ships, who would have the specially designed ASW round the Japanese made towards the end of WW2, could only fire to a depth of about 30-40 feet with a 127mm gun to do it with), and has senses better than ship's own already-mechanically-enhanced-to-several-thousand-times-the-ability-of-a-human-to-hear-conservatively, there's pretty much no threat.
The sub doesn't have to come within sight. It doesn't have to come near the surface at all. Neither does the torpedo. The whole schtick of a modern submarine is silence is golden and Brit subs are pretty decent at silence. The T-class is one of the better SSNs in service in this rough timeframe. They don't ping on sonar. They don't put up periscopes unless they're feeling cocky. They lurk, they listen, they track, and they fire.
Given the need for speed, the mobility issue suggests a Swiftsure or Trafalgar-class SSN. If we're extremely unlucky, Eagle will detect the boat on sonar before the launch. Still, there's nothing to be done unless the sub captain does something monumentally stupid (unlikely; the Royal Navy trains the best submarine captains in the world with the Perisher course). The subs are faster than an Invincible-class carrier if it tries to run, their torpedoes even faster than that. More likely they won't detect the presence of a submarine until a torpedo is actually fired, either by the sound of the compressed-air ejection of the torpedo from its tube, or the sound of the torpedo itself. The torpedo is guided to its target by wire, well below the surface, and brought up only directly beneath the keel of the target. On detonation, a temporary vacuum is formed in addition to the blast effect, removing the support of the water from beneath a major portion of the ship. The hull and the keel fracture. The ship snaps in half and jackknifes. (The effect is quite dramatic; there are videos on youtube from SINKEX if you care to seek them out.)
Game, set match. Vampires are pretty bullshit, but so are SSNs. We're playing a supernatural-hunting agency whose agents have proved time and again that while massive supernatural advantages are good, sufficiently advanced and intelligently applied human firepower can be employed to compensate it.
I mean, from your standpoint, the ghost ships are actually a less-viable option than the SSN, because it is definitely possible to intercept an artillery shell in flight; at the game's point technologically that's still ten-to-twenty years in the future technically, but Rip seems to be a better point-defense system than the ship's Phalanxes, and Phalanx can actually be adapted to intercept artillery. At least shooting through water will mess with the accuracy.
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*Recalls beautiful scene of helicopter sweeping room full of vampires with miniguns*
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Not to mention, I'm pretty sure it's been said the Ghost fleet would take a week or so to get here. Maybe more.