Congregation of Despair (Mafia - Second Attempt)

@Terrabrand My problem with you 'scumreading' me is that you are using that instead of giving reasoning why you think I might be scum. You keep saying I am scum, but don't give reasoning for it. Instead you just say you are scumreading me.

So just stop saying that you are scum-reading me and give some actual reasoning for why. You say this:

Now explain it. Which of my actions have led to believe that? Because right now you are just saying I am scum, but refusing to elaborate.



How is it unbelievable? What grounds do you say that on?

I also made it quite clear what I lied about and that was that my cult immunity was full rather than the partial I was claiming in the hopes of baiting the cult into targeting me with recruitment. I have been completely upfront about my lighting rod ability and it has been confirmed by other players that you claim to believe and the only way that I don't have a lighting rod ability would be if of QT, Nani and Nictis, at leas two of them are lying.
QFC.
A culted Vigilante or serial killer could as could the cult if they got enough people culted to push a lynch through.
It's highly unlikely either are cultable. If they were, we could get a cultafia, and that takes a whole other kind of balancing.
Also, what are these GM confirmed role variants?
By GM confirmed I mean roles that can have the GM confirm them in-thread. By definition they are confirmed Town and so are unlynchable. I was just talking about combining these with other roles.
Your claim which may be fake.
 
[x] lynch 1kbestk

If this is what's going to happen, I'd prefer just to do it rather than watch people squabble with obvious scum.
 
So given that we had a couple of people do it now, how does self-voting fit in with this rule?
  • Finally, do not act against the spirit of the game. This is a nebulous term, but includes such things as "Taking your ball and going home". Always keep fighting for yourself, always be trying to win. Don't give up, basically.

I'm pretty sure voting for your own death means that you are giving up, but Nictis didn't run afoul of this rule when he did it so I'm wondering how things work.
 
Since I am newbie at Mafia, who thinks that my claimed role of Lighting Rod plus Cult Immunity is overpowered or unbalanced?
 
Dovah and 1K are both claiming doctor and both got roleblocked.
DG was killed Night 2 and was apparently recruited into the cult from this flavour text:
Soon though it doesn't take long for the accusations to begin...who could have done this to their queen!
This means that DG was culted Night 1. During that Dovah was roleblocked while 1K wasn't so if 1K or Dovah are a cult recruiter, it would mean that it has to be 1K who is the cult recruiter due to the timing of things.
 
So given that we had a couple of people do it now, how does self-voting fit in with this rule?


I'm pretty sure voting for your own death means that you are giving up, but Nictis didn't run afoul of this rule when he did it so I'm wondering how things work.
You're all operating with the assumption that I am scum, which is wrong and will get you killed. The only way it looks like I'll be able to convince you that you're wrong is to die.
 
No, I mean: cult leader is one of you, Dovah, or 1k, culted Nani two nights ago who then announced Ossha as still clean, and then culted Oshha last night, with the only risk being me blocking culting?
Awake again.

This is possible but is also kind of a dick move since Nani asked to not be Culted, and is a tad too risky for my tastes since Nani is nearly always targeted by stuff Night One and so makes for an obvious protective target. I do feel like it's getting something wrong on what the situation was then but I can't place my finger on why right now. It's an incredibly specific series of choices that would have been reliant on chance and the assumption that Oshha wasn't lying about the Magical Artifact only working when it's intercepting stuff meant for someone other than the wielder, which honestly just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me fluff wise and makes perfect sense as a bluff to make the Cult waste an action.

"I'm totally cultable, just not when I'm stopping you from culting people."
Yes, I clearly have manufactured the least beleivable role fluff possible on purpose. I did this with full knowledge of the existance of the previous games, and also knowing what many other current players are called.

Also, you're obvious scum because the moment it comes out I'm a town role you start trying as hard as you can to get me killed.
"You called me scum because I claimed a role that nobody would believe."

Umm. Do I actually need to respond to this or is it ridiculous enough to stand on its own?
We can debate that kind of thing after we get through dovah, though.
...
With 63 Hours and 39 Minutes Remaining, let's just rush out a hammer on this guy, we can talk more when we win.

What happened to me being Obvious Scumtm ​again?
I tried to heal Nictis Night 1, self-healed Night 2, and healed QTess Night 3.
@Dovah I'm gonna need a much better explanation of how your power works, because this doesn't work.
First of all, I am going to admit that I lied about my second power. I claimed that it only protected me from dark magic of evil creatures when I used my lighting-rod ability. The truth is that it is called the Seal of the Unicorn and it has protective magics that safeguard me from the vile corruption of the undead and specifically states that vampires as being one of those undead. It is always active and not only when I am using my lightning rod.
Called it, but I'll admit that when I noted it I was worried that you would retract that bit and people would use that to believe that you got culted.
Okay, anyone want to convince me that I shouldn't vote for 1K right now?

Also, curtesy tag @1KBestK
Hold off on voting if possible, we don't want to accidentally hammer before all the information is out here. I haven't seen @Nanimani share info yet for example. Also, @QTesseract who did Dovah visit last night?
We still don't have a night report from @Nanimani and given the, you know, watcher could confirm or deny stories here, that's risking scum hammer and, you know, us myslynching.

It should wait. ideally, we get unvotes at least until nani chimes in.
This.
Looking like Dovah is definitely scum then. I guess if you all want to lose thw game you can vote fo me.
This is not how you get people to work with you. This is how you get people to vote you out of spite.
I'd been starting to think I'd been too paranoid. But this throws scum!Ossha back into question- I'm not sure how even an every night cult would have reliably played around that? He basically stops culting on two slots- himself and one other- each night.
Countermeasures for a Cult Setup that keeps its powers?
Dovah previously said he tried to visit Nictis n1, but was roleblocked by me, which I know to be true. He says he self healed night 2, and as I recall QTesseract said he visited no one night 2.
Most of the time Trackers see people self visiting. It's possible that they didn't this time, but there's something else too that I need to check.
But there isn't a convenient list of all the terms for me to reference and I am reliant on asking those in the thread for what terms mean. For that matter, no one has bothered to explain to me what a transporter is despite you have been accusing me of having that role on different occasions.
Sorry, thought I had answered this earlier. Transporter is a role that switches two people's positions at night, making all visits target the other.

I'm actually pretty sure I did answer this earlier, but whatever.

I'll link a page for role terms later.
But if you claim, nobody is going to kill you. Not the vig, not the SK, cult can't touch you ... you're unstoppable.
Friendly reminder that he is occupying two slots for them to do exactly that. If his role is too unbelievable, the Vig could choose to just kill him directly, or the Vig could choose to kill someone entirely unrelated that he just so happens to have decided to protect. Or the Serial Killer is trying to knock out the people who are Too Town in order to find Cult, and gets redirected into him.

Honestly, his role isn't actually that unbelievable considering some of the other Cult Games like Light And Shadow @Terrabrand @Dovah.
 
Actually, I just realized we're at the numbers where I literally can't do that or we just lose. Lovely.

[x] null
 
Ah, right. QT didn't watch Dovah last night.

@Terrabrand Dovah claims to have visited me Night One, meaning that Nani would have seen them. We've seen no evidence so far of the Cult having any kind of Strongman, and having a way to prevent Cult from Culting people is necessary in games with minimal vigilantes and an every night Cult. If the Vigilante and SK were to die, and we didn't have a way to stop the Cult more reliably than blocking the specific member that is culting, Town loses, period.

I'm pretty sure Dovah is the one who is lying here, but I need to go look at Nani's reveal again.
 
If it's just vampires, a vig, and the court like I suspect it might be, then it's possible there's three scum left on the same team, which means if we don't get this right now we could lose automatically next round.
 
@Dovah i can confirm that they are, in fact a lightning rod.
Night 1, they redirected from Nictis. That means either transporter or lightning rod. We can both agree it's not a town transporter, because they would have claimed that. That leaves scum transporter or lightningrod. If they were scum transporter, there is no reason to swap with Nictis, who has night actions hitting him up the wazoo pretty much every game. Sure, maybe you would get a cop on them to get a guilty result, but you'll also get caught out too easily, especially if a tracker (like me, who had claimed already) went after Nictis. I think I would have gotten both transporter targets even if they targeted themself, and they almost certainly would have no way of knowing that ahead of time.

From the fact that we know they're a Lightningrod in a cult game, we can then assume they have some kind of protection; godfather (unlikely, requires mafia rather than serial killer), cult immune, or nightkill immune, at least while lightningrodding - most likely cult immune - or else there's no real point in doing it. Imagine blocking a culting aimed at Nictis, only to get culted yourself; your town beneficial play would directly hurt you.

As such, I'm pretty sure that Oshha started as a redirector, and is cult immune if he redirects the culting. The question is if they're immune to direct culting. My bet is on no, but I'll happily be proven wrong when we lynch the cult leader and he wins with us.
 
Okay, yeah, I can't throw in the towel yet. No matter what the setup is, we can't actually lynch another town. Actually, I'm not even sure if that's enough. If there are three scum by the end of the night, they win. That means they can win by going into and surviving the night with 3 scum, or by going into the night with 2 scum and culting/vamping someone. We might also need to get lucky and block their culting attempt.
 
He visited Nictis, and no one else did. Therefore, that was a lie. Nictis, also, is a good target for cult.
...

Nani would have had to have been redirected by the interception to see QT visit me, but Oshha couldn't be a Ninja because QT saw them visit me. Nani lied here.
 
  • Dovah
    • Pro: Was not seen visiting anyone Night Two despite claiming to take an action.
    • Con: Entirely unnecessary reveal for the lynching of 1K.
    • Pro: Infinite Self Healing.
    • Pro: No sign of Strongman so far.
  • 1KBeskK
    • Pro: Role Name matches up with our missing vigilante.
    • Con: Power fluff seems irrelevant to the Cult, potentially only works against the killing powers. Different kind of protective.
    • Pro: Immortality Loop with Oshha.

I clearly need to think on this more.
 
@Dovah i can confirm that they are, in fact a lightning rod.
Night 1, they redirected from Nictis. That means either transporter or lightning rod. We can both agree it's not a town transporter, because they would have claimed that. That leaves scum transporter or lightningrod. If they were scum transporter, there is no reason to swap with Nictis, who has night actions hitting him up the wazoo pretty much every game. Sure, maybe you would get a cop on them to get a guilty result, but you'll also get caught out too easily, especially if a tracker (like me, who had claimed already) went after Nictis. I think I would have gotten both transporter targets even if they targeted themself, and they almost certainly would have no way of knowing that ahead of time.

From the fact that we know they're a Lightningrod in a cult game, we can then assume they have some kind of protection; godfather (unlikely, requires mafia rather than serial killer), cult immune, or nightkill immune, at least while lightningrodding - most likely cult immune - or else there's no real point in doing it. Imagine blocking a culting aimed at Nictis, only to get culted yourself; your town beneficial play would directly hurt you.

As such, I'm pretty sure that Oshha started as a redirector, and is cult immune if he redirects the culting. The question is if they're immune to direct culting. My bet is on no, but I'll happily be proven wrong when we lynch the cult leader and he wins with us.
Yeah, good point. It was the "always cult immune" bit that was getting me.
Awake again.

This is possible but is also kind of a dick move since Nani asked to not be Culted, and is a tad too risky for my tastes since Nani is nearly always targeted by stuff Night One and so makes for an obvious protective target. I do feel like it's getting something wrong on what the situation was then but I can't place my finger on why right now. It's an incredibly specific series of choices that would have been reliant on chance and the assumption that Oshha wasn't lying about the Magical Artifact only working when it's intercepting stuff meant for someone other than the wielder, which honestly just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me fluff wise and makes perfect sense as a bluff to make the Cult waste an action.

"I'm totally cultable, just not when I'm stopping you from culting people."

"You called me scum because I claimed a role that nobody would believe."

Umm. Do I actually need to respond to this or is it ridiculous enough to stand on its own?

...
With 63 Hours and 39 Minutes Remaining, let's just rush out a hammer on this guy, we can talk more when we win.

What happened to me being Obvious Scumtm ​again?

@Dovah I'm gonna need a much better explanation of how your power works, because this doesn't work.

Called it, but I'll admit that when I noted it I was worried that you would retract that bit and people would use that to believe that you got culted.

Hold off on voting if possible, we don't want to accidentally hammer before all the information is out here. I haven't seen @Nanimani share info yet for example. Also, @QTesseract who did Dovah visit last night?

This.

This is not how you get people to work with you. This is how you get people to vote you out of spite.

Countermeasures for a Cult Setup that keeps its powers?

Most of the time Trackers see people self visiting. It's possible that they didn't this time, but there's something else too that I need to check.

Sorry, thought I had answered this earlier. Transporter is a role that switches two people's positions at night, making all visits target the other.

I'm actually pretty sure I did answer this earlier, but whatever.

I'll link a page for role terms later.

Friendly reminder that he is occupying two slots for them to do exactly that. If his role is too unbelievable, the Vig could choose to just kill him directly, or the Vig could choose to kill someone entirely unrelated that he just so happens to have decided to protect. Or the Serial Killer is trying to knock out the people who are Too Town in order to find Cult, and gets redirected into him.

Honestly, his role isn't actually that unbelievable considering some of the other Cult Games like Light And Shadow @Terrabrand @Dovah.
The role makes sense now, at least in its originally claimed form.
 
How does your role work Dovah?
Preventative medicine.

Being the Spymaster, I can't actually fix anything. Instead I pretty much just interfere at the scene. Anyone attacking people doesn't want to be caught, so my presence serves to dissuade them. When not trying to protect someone, I stay in areas where there's people around so there would be witnesses to any attack.

The fluff's honestly a bit weird; would've expected a bodyguard or something instead of a doctor.
 
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