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Command: Modern Air & Naval Operations: Let's Play and Expansions

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LordSquishy said:
I can sort of understand the whole large groups of land units thing but honestly it just gets in the way a lot of the time. Just have one airport, not 50 different substructures.
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The problem with that, as @poaw stated in his thread, is that a couple bombs or missiles can then destroy the whole thing - including all of the aircraft inside it. An obviously disproportionate amount of resources for the gain. Doing it that way relies on the player choosing not to attack airports at all.
 
Wakka said:
The problem with that, as @poaw stated in his thread, is that a couple bombs or missiles can then destroy the whole thing - including all of the aircraft inside it. An obviously disproportionate amount of resources for the gain. Doing it that way relies on the player choosing not to attack airports at all.
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Urgh, I know, I suppose, it's just weirdly inconvenient.

Also this IS his thread. :p
 
LordSquishy said:
I can sort of understand the whole large groups of land units thing but honestly it just gets in the way a lot of the time. Just have one airport, not 50 different substructures.
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I didn't know better at the time (Ambalat Island could defo use a single unit airfield for SHIA), but for Changjiang the multiple unit airfields are needed because attacking them is a huge part of the scenario.
 
poaw said:
I didn't know better at the time (Ambalat Island could defo use a single unit airfield for SHIA), but for Changjiang the multiple unit airfields are needed because attacking them is a huge part of the scenario.
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Yeah, I guess it depends entirely on the scenario.

Also, this goes more to the way the AI tracks, but I noticed that as soon as my SSN launched tomahawks against the airfield, the Indonesians went hostile. Does the AI actually have to see that you're shooting at it first or does it track weapons release/targeting independently?
 
LordSquishy said:
Yeah, I guess it depends entirely on the scenario.

Also, this goes more to the way the AI tracks, but I noticed that as soon as my SSN launched tomahawks against the airfield, the Indonesians went hostile. Does the AI actually have to see that you're shooting at it first or does it track weapons release/targeting independently?
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LOL That's your posture that changed, not theirs. When you fired on them the game automatically set them hostile.
 
Whiskey Golf said:
I live here mate, I know. :p

Having said that, to be fair the policemen sent were part normal coppers (IIRC), and part General Operations Force (Pasukan Gerakan Am, PGA) and Special Operations Force (Pasukan Gerakan Khas, PGK), who're more like paramilitary semi-soldiers (the PGA grew out of what was the Jungle Squad, and PGK has honest to goodness commando units).
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Modified for emphasis.
 
poaw you should make some wacky unrealistic crazy scenarios.

Like, 1950s USN (with nukes) versus 2010 USN (no nukes)-can your awesome superiority in technology make up for the other guy having NUCLEAR FIREPOWER?

Or like, I don't know, one rogue USN carrier battlegroup (Poaw's Peacekeepers) versus a multinational fleet sent to take it down, how many can you sink before being sunk?
 
I want to see Adm. Poaw teaching Lt. Squishy to be a 'competent' fleet command, both are completely in character.

That said, can CMANO do multiplayer at all?
 
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Side Show in the South China Sea
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    • ZeroXSEED said:
    I want to see Adm. Poaw teaching Lt. Squishy to be a 'competent' fleet command, both are completely in character.

    That said, can CMANO do multiplayer at all?
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    It's not really "in character" if it's my real personality though...
    -------------------------------------
    Anyway:


    Side Show in the South China Sea
    Orders for Cmdr US Joint Forces
    Situation
    At 0400 20 MAR 85 ZULU hostilities began between NATO and WARPAC forces. Heavy fighting is occuring in the Central and Northern European theaters as well as in the North Atlantic. The Western Pacific has only small scale operations. 7th Fleet ships have been removed from the South China Sea due to the presence of the Soviet base at Cam Ranh Bay.
    Enemy Forces
    Stationed at Cam Ranh Bay is the 169th Guards Seperate Composite Regiment of Naval Aviation-Pacific Fleet (VVS-TF) The regiment consists of:
    1st Squadron 20x Tu-16 BADGER aircraft consisting of 12-14 bombers, 4-6 EW aircraft and at least 2 refuling aircraft.
    2nd Squadron 4x Tu-142 4x TU-95TS BEAR aircraft making up the maritmie recon component
    3rd Squadron 12x MiG-23MLD FLOGGER K make up the fighter component. This squadron is manned by the most capable pilots in the Soviet Navy.
    We are aware that at least 1 BN of SA-6 have been to deployed to Cam Ranh Bay for at least 2 weeks, and it is possible SA-10s have been deployed as well.
    Satellite intelligence has noted that 3 submarines left port 3 days ago. There is a limited amount of Soviet naval activity in the South China Sea and a submarine tender in Cam Ranh Bay.

    Friendly Forces

    Clark AFB: 2x F-4 Squadrons (3rd TFS, 90th TFSw/ 8 F-4Gs) 6x KC-135A, 1 KC-135Q

    NAS Cubi Point: Marine Detachment (12x A-4, 6x A-6, 4x EA-6, 2x KC-130) 4x P-3C

    Anderson AFB: 8x B-52G (2 Harpoon capable) 6x KC-135A 1x SR-71



    Mission
    1. Cam Ranh Bay must be nuteralized as a base for Soviet forces in order to establis control over transit of the South China Sea.
    2. Cam Ranh Bay itself must be mined to prevent normal operations or resupply by sea.
    3. Any Soviet naval units are considered high value targets and are to be attacked
    Execution

    At your discretion.

    Command & Signal

    Command: PACAF, 3rd Fighter Wing
    Signal: EMCON StateC, unrestricted emissions

    Rules of Engagement (RoE)

    Vietnam has declared neutrality in the conflict entrance of their airspace is limited only to the area of Cam Ranh Bay. Vietnamese forces are only to be attacked in self defense.

    I've decided to address one of the major issues that prevented me from being successful in the previous scenario, namely losing ships. To achieve that end I'm playing a scenario in which I have no ships. Say what you want about me, I am nothing if not logical. Also I'm playing AMERICA again, so that takes care of another third of the problem (still need to manage tankers though :V) and I read the briefing which I suspect will benefit me in some intangible manner.
     
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    • *steps into thread*

    So.....finally had time to read through this thread today......

    And at first....I was like this:



    Then.....as I came to recognize the utter strategic brilliance of SV's very own Clausewitz....I turned into this:



    If I had the time and patience to learn the ropes of this game I would totally buy it---alas...i'm left to watch with popcorn-filled delight as 1st Sealord-Grand Admiral poaw leaves his mark on the world. It is a sight to behold. I commend you sir, long may you reign!

    *notices his name mentioned*
    CV12Hornet said:
    Oh! Or maybe that "Brazil invades French Guyana" idea that Doc Holliday got roasted for a while back.
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    Ooohhhh......I really like this idea. It would shut Rufus up once and for all! Use the editor to give the Brazilians 120 Gripen NGs plus a decent ADN, then poaw can command a French CVBG, and let the magic begin! :cool:

    Rufus Shinra said:
    Bwa ha ha, that would be awesome! Especially if the scenario involves his fancy hypotheses, like the Brazilian subs teleporting all over the Atlantic, sinking US civilian ships in Martinique without any political consequence while if poaw's French forces do something like having the fighters' engine noise annoying someone who's distantly related to a US citizen, the US declare war on him.
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    Ahem.....you appear to be wearing rose-tinted glasses. I never hypothesized Brazilian SSKs "teleporting" all over the Atlantic, much less the sinking of civilian ships in Martinique.

    A B-2 being detected 30 km out and its PGM being taken out by enemy defence is quite an interesting counter-point to the proponents of stealth as a silver bullet sending everything else into irrelevance.
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    Not really. As it's consistently been repeated on SB---LO isn't about acting as a silver bullet, but rather "raising the bar" in terms of making detection that much more difficult. In the real world a B-2 has done something horribly wrong if it's ever in a position where it's 30 km away from an emitting enemy radar site.

    It gives an advantage, but a well-managed defensive grid flying F-16 and willing to take losses is clearly a tough opponent to consider, especially as they targeted your tankers.
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    Interesting. That sounds suspiciously like a general point I recall making about a well-managed defensive grid of Gripens and F-5s willing to take losses.... ;)

    poaw said:
    I decided to avoid making scenarios involving nations of active posters pitted against one another. Someone will get mad.
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    No wait! You'll be doing us a favor and putting that debate to rest once and for all!

    I want to bathe in glorious schadenfreude dammit!
     
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    Blackout said:
    I sense canards incoming in 3, 2, 1...
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    Please, the canards were there from Day 1 and owned everyone. *wiggles charmingly*
    Doc_Holliday said:
    Ooohhhh......I really like this idea. It would shut Rufus up once and for all! Use the editor to give the Brazilians 200 Gripen NGs plus a decent ADN, then poaw can command a French CVBG, and let the magic begin! :cool:
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    Hem, so you have a "decent ADN" miraculously teleported all over Guyana even though we all pointed out during your thread how hilariously impossible it would be to support the logistics of a large invasion force given the extremely narrow access points to Guyana, which is separated from its neighbours by large bodies of water with only a few bridges.

    You know perfectly that these logistical problems would be handwaved in this scenario, which becomes just as likely as teleporting Russian ultranationalists, like, well... everyone else on the thread told you.

    But let's remain on topic, okay? ;-)

    To satisfy your question, I concede that if Brazil can teleport a ADN and two hundred planes to Guyana and completely ignore the geographical problems and logistics, then we will have no other choice than to break the nukes.

    Which France already did for a hostage situation in the poaw-verse, BTW. :p
     
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    See poaw? This is why you'd be doing Rufus and I a favor. Brazil v. France remains a hot point of contention between us.

    Rufus Shinra said:
    But let's remain on topic, okay? ;-)
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    Fine by me, this will be my last post on the subject. If you want to revisit that "old bean" we'll have to take it elsewhere.

    Hem, so you have a "decent ADN" miraculously teleported all over Guyana even though we all pointed out during your thread how hilariously impossible it would be to support the logistics of a large invasion force given the extremely narrow access points to Guyana, which is separated from its neighbours by large bodies of water with only a few bridges.
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    Just as how we also pointed out to you in that thread that the Brazilians: A) Don't need a particularly large invasion force. B) Have both air mobile and sealift capability that would bypass the jungle constraints C) Don't necessarily need to put all their eggs in the Guyana basket.

    You know perfectly that these logistical problems would be handwaved in this scenario, which becomes just as likely as teleporting Russian ultranationalists, like, well... everyone else on the thread told you.
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    Everyone did not agree with you in that thread Rufus. Some were willing to actually play around with the hypotheticals rather than handwaving "automatic French victory" as you did. Indeed, based on the results of poaw's adventures to date, your "magical SCALP EGs destroy everything undetected without running low on stocks" line has taken quite the hit in my estimation.
     
    Doc_Holliday said:
    Everyone did not agree with you in that thread Rufus. Some were willing to actually play around with the hypotheticals rather than handwaving "automatic French victory" as you did. Indeed, based on the results of poaw's adventures to date, your "magical SCALP EGs destroy everything undetected without running low on stocks" line has taken quite the hit in my estimation.
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    There's a difference between attacking... an actual large radar station with a wide open field in front of it, and attacking a target surrounded by a jungle with no more than mobile radars in unoptimal positions or small AEW crafts, far from air bases. And that's of course without considering the small detail that you also have a few hundred Foreign Legion soldiers willing to play along somewhere in the jungle.

    Just as how we also pointed out to you in that thread that the Brazilians: A) Don't need a particularly large invasion force. B) Have both air mobile and sealift capability that would bypass the jungle constraints C) Don't necessarily need to put all their eggs in the Guyana basket.
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    Don't need a particularly large invasion force and have the aerial logistics to support a full ADN plus squadrons of air defense a good thousand km away from their nearest air base without going on the ground?

    Yeah. Sure. :rolleyes:


    The overwhelming majority of the people on that thread pointed out how you moved the goalposts every time, putting everything in favor of Brazil and inventing more and more absurd international reactions against the Froggies just to not face the problems.


    Though, that question was dealt with before on the Other Forum, so please don't derail this thread, okay? I want to see poaw wrecking the entire planet and redefining the words "political shitstorm", not having a spaghetti post exchange with you.
     
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    To surmise my response:
    You're wrong, I vehemently disagree, and pot calling the kettle black on goalpost shifting. Will not elaborate further out of respect to poaw and to prevent further thread derailment. Make a new thread or PM me, but please refrain from making another post so we can both enjoy poaw's shenanigans.
     
    FYI I ain't doing that shit.
    ------------------------------------
    Anyway, several hours in after a slight delay....

    I've decided against a sustained air campaign, and instead favor a large raid(s). My SR-71's pass over Cam Ranh Bay revealed the presence of civilian shipping, several surveillance radars, and a whole lot of fighters (a few on CAP, and a whole lot more on ground alert. Not unexpected, but the biggest problem will probably be the fuel situation as my objective is 700nmi away....
     
    Now the only question is how many civvies will die when all the ships in the harbor sink?

    Well, and the tanker bit, how many of those are going to be lost...
     
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