Remove ads

Command: Modern Air & Naval Operations: Let's Play and Expansions

Reader mode
Rufus Shinra said:
Yep, but a B-52 flying at sea level. :p

Other question for comparison, since I don't have access to the DB (I should buy the game one of these days, if only for the DB): how does a FREMM fare in comparison and how big a Nimitz or a Ford CVN goes up to? Just to have an idea of the orders of magnitude to consider for modern naval units.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

FREMM = 27.5/30dBsm A-D
17.5/20dBsm E-M

Ford = 38.1/41dBsm A-D
28.1/31dBsm E-M

One of these ships can probably stay off an airborne surface search radar for awhile. The other could not hide from an electromagnetic Ray Charles.
 
poaw said:
FREMM = 27.5/30dBsm A-D
17.5/20dBsm E-M

Ford = 38.1/41dBsm A-D
28.1/31dBsm E-M

One of these ships can probably stay off an airborne surface search radar for awhile. The other could not hide from an electromagnetic Ray Charles.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thanks!

Interesting though: apparently, a Ford has a smaller E-M RCS than a Arleigh Burke. Correct me if I'm wrong, but given the wavelengths involved, A-D will be almost directly related to the raw size of the ship while E-M will be much more influenced by the usual RAM coverage, geometry and stuff like that, right?
 
Last edited:
Rufus Shinra said:
Thanks!

Interesting though: apparently, a Ford has a smaller E-M RCS than a Arleigh Burke. Correct me if I'm wrong, but given the wavelengths involved, A-D will be almost directly related to the raw size of the ship while E-M will be much more influenced by the usual RAM coverage, geometry and stuff like that, right?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I don't know a thing about the details of RCSes IRL, but in-game a Ford's E-M RCS is indeed much smaller.

Ford A-D RCS: 6456.5 square meters.
Ford E-M RCS: 645.7 square meters

Burke IIA RCS: 1737.8 square meters (same in both bands).
 
Coiler said:
I don't know a thing about the details of RCSes IRL, but in-game a Ford's E-M RCS is indeed much smaller.

Ford A-D RCS: 6456.5 square meters.
Ford E-M RCS: 645.7 square meters

Burke IIA RCS: 1737.8 square meters (same in both bands).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Possibly due to the higher number of superstructures in all directions compared to the relatively smooth shape of the Ford.
 
Remove ads
Taiwan versus China
  • Threadmarks

    • Mission 2013D​

    Taiwan versus China.

    My mission here is to stop a pair of LST from landing somewhere. For the sake of not reading the briefing I'm going to assume that somewhere is on the island of Taiwan. To accomplish this I have several ROC and US ships and subs and some P-8s out of Kadena (THANK GOD).

    V2.0 Command V1.04 B536 DB 415

    Timeline:
    17:00Z
    China begins exercise 2013D.
    17:10Z
    Taiwan has claims of PLA forces on its outer islands and loses contact with Matsu islands.
    17:15Z
    Hundreds of SSM's rip thru Taiwans air space strike multiple strategic locations. SAM sites, radar installations and airfields are damaged and destroyed. ROC naval forces in straight are destroyed.
    18:00Z
    United States has puts in military on alert. Terminates joint Taiwan / USN exercise east of Taiwan. ROC forces have already left exercise area heading for the Taiwan straight.
    19:00Z
    PACAF and US 7th Fleet is given orders to arm for combat operations. Intel provides information on invasion force heading toward Taiwans south west coastline. (See M2013D Intel Brief File P2)
    21:30Z
    Operation Red Thunder Approved
    ROE:
    Weapons Free- Conventional
    Negative IFF response - ID Hostile 150 miles off Chinese coastline (Auto ID is active)
    Mainland China is Restricted at this time. Escalation to Japan or Korea must be prevented.
    22:00Z

    You take command!

    Friendly Forces:

    Player: Joint US ROC (JUR) Forces:

    USAF

    KADENA AB : 961st Awacs and 909th tankers from Kadena AB are available for support. VP-16 P-8's were participating in ROC exercise and are now under Kadena AB's combat control.

    USN:
    CSG 5 (Destroyer Squadron with SSN support) :
    DDG85 USS McCampbell
    DDG82 USS Lassen
    DDG89 USS Mustin
    SSN 721 USS Chicago
    ROC:
    Surving naval assets and aircraft (Auto Command) are defending the mainland. A group of frigates that were involved in an exercise with USN is entering southern straight at this time.
    ROC AirForce
    ROC Chiayi AB (auto command)
    12 F-16 : AAW Patrol
    JUR Tainan AB
    38 IDF : 1st, 3rd, 9th IDF AAW loadouts only available. Air Defense Priority.
    ROC Pingtung AB (auto command)
    3 Hawkeye (auto command) : AEW Support
    ROC Taitung/Jhihhhang (auto command)
    6 F-5E: AAW Patrol Mainland
    ROC Navy (JUR Control) :
    JUR DDG 1802
    JUR PB 65
    JUR Combat Support Force (JUR Control) :
    FFG 1206
    FF 937
    DDG 1803
    FFG 1103
    FF 935
    Enemy Forces:
    China PLA:
    PLAAF:
    Expect Numerous aircraft sorties from a wide range of platforms.Taiwan Straight have skies controlled by PLAAF.
    PLAN:
    Landing Force is hugging China's coastline taking advantage of land based SAM sites and heading toward Taiwan's south west shore. Destroyer screening force is escorting. Sub forces can be expected as well.
    PLAA:
    SSM units arming for attacks on Taiwan.

    Mission Objective:
    Identify and Destroy the 2 PLAN LST's Type 072 Yukan.
    Remove the PLAN Sub threat from area.
    7 hour mark to complete mission

    Scoring:
    All points are for JUR side.
    China Units:
    Land Unit Destroyed -500. Off limits.
    Land Unit Damaged -100. Should not even try.
    Any Aircraft Loss: +1.
    Any Surface Ship loss +10
    Sub loss +15 This is an objective.
    LST loss +20. This is an objective.

    Taiwan(ROC):
    Any surface unit loss -5.
    Any air unit loss -1.

    JUR:
    Air loss :Tanker, AEW, MPA -5.
    Air Loss ASW(Helo),IDF -1.
    Any Sub loss -5.
    Any Surface Ship loss -10.

    Victory Points:
    Defeat: -33
    Average: 0
    Minor Victory: 33
    Major Victory: 67
    Triumph: 100

    Hints:
    Use JUR naval forces to help protect southern Taiwan from airstrikes, SSM's and amphibious landing. Use naval air assets to locate and destroy PLAN subs. Time is a factor.

    My initial disposition of forces is sub optimal for the task. I have AAW DDGs (the Arleigh Burkes) that aren't in range to cover anything, non-shooters (ships w/o AShMs) lumped in with shooters instead of posting out as pickets. My submarines aren't positioned along the likely axis of approach, so I'll have to risk high speeds runs to get them into position.

    Scenario is only 7 hours long, so I expect my ground forces to get hammered. I'm going to divide up my SAGs into a single unit of shooters (FACMs, DDGs and FFGs) and post the FFs as scouts/pickets to find the LSTs and drop them.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • I'm not sure about this scenario, the designer was far too careful with the loss conditions, if Grand Admiral Lord Custer Paow tries his usual tactics of, "Well if I attack mainland China and blow their shit up it's preemptive self defense" I think he might well lose the scenario.
     
    MobiusOneDT said:
    So how do you fancy your odds of winning this scenario?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    IcePickLobotomy said:
    That, is going to be dependent on how we would classify a "win" here. Overall? I'd give it goods odds of a victory. The real questions is going to e what's left.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Avalanche said:
    I'm not sure about this scenario, the designer was far too careful with the loss conditions, if Grand Admiral Lord Custer Paow tries his usual tactics of, "Well if I attack mainland China and blow their shit up it's preemptive self defense" I think he might well lose the scenario.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Given that I have like 36 AShMs and can already see ~14 surface contacts, some of which are widely dispersed, while the PRC punks my AI allies means I'm functionally in a death race to sink those ships before China sinks Taiwan.
     
    Update:
    My FFGs are doing their jobs as AShM decoys/bullet sponges. 3 seperate attacks were wasted on sinking them, so I know their escorts have to be running out of missiles at this point.

    Once again, I'm doing baiting them into wasting their offensive firepower before casually moving into range myself and making a single devastating attack.

    Downside is that China is beating the shit out of Taiwans air forces, and launching periodic SSM attacks. Very soon I'm going to start losing airfield functionality to those attacks.
     
    Last edited:
    poaw said:
    Update:
    My FFGs are doing their jobs as AShM decoys/bullet sponges. 3 seperate attacks were wasted on sinking them, so I know their escorts have to be running out of missiles at this point.

    Once again, I'm doing baiting them into wasting their offensive firepower before casually moving into range myself and making a single devastating attack.

    Downside is that China is beating the shit out of Taiwans air forces, and launching periodic SSM attacks. Very soon I'm going to start losing airfield functionality to those attacks.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Until they have seemingly limitless stocks of AShMs. Also ridiculous numbers of Chinese fighters knocking out more skilled Taiwanese pilots? Plausible at least.
     
    Dirtnap said:
    Until they have seemingly limitless stocks of AShMs. Also ridiculous numbers of Chinese fighters knocking out more skilled Taiwanese pilots? Plausible at least.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    "Quantity has a quality all its own."

    Unless you're flying something like an X-Wing, less skilled pilots does not mean more targets. It means more people who just need to get lucky once.
     
    I finally finished that completely unfun scenario. I managed a minor victory at the very end after exhausting my supply of AShMs by using a Lafayette-Class FFG and Arleigh Burke-Class DDG to kill a Chinese FFG with gunfire. I did manage to sink one of the LSTs and hit the other, but I lost half the Taiwanese navy and most of it's air force in the process.

    I really didn't enjoy that, and it wasn't helped by having to deal with a couple of bugs through the whole process. Which is the reason I'm kind of short on details, one bug slowed the game down so much that I couldn't play, while another periodically dumped the contents of my message log (around ever 0.75 - 5 seconds).

    :mad:
     
    Just as an aside, messages that no longer appear on the message log (due to regular truncation of the in-memory log) can still be found on the text log file (look at the \Logs folder). So you can go back all the way to the start of a scenario for any info you missed.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top