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Combinatorial Explosion (Worm/Original)

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This conversation leads me to suspect that Mana exposure had infected QA with something far more insidious and disruptive than merely a fritzed-out scanning module.

Namely, full sapience. What could be more disruptive than a mere piece of 'smart' but ultimately uncreative and subservient administrative construct actually becoming self aware and developing it's own opinions, thoughts, and plans? Oh, and a sense of self preservation, if I'm reading some of that right.

Also, based on the results of the initial vote, I suspect that Taylor actually doesn't have a Conflict Drive, and instead has a Research Drive. Though, as also said here, she didn't really need one. We voters are excellent at providing plenty of research impulse without additional assistance.
 
hyrushoten said:
Well we can't be summoned anyways since the magic is too decayed and lost the destination. Which is a bit weird when you think about it. This magic letter is supposedly amazingly complex and well constructed. Not only that it took degradation into account in its design. Yet it managed to both remain cohesive enough for Taylor to make all those awestruck observations about it and yet decayed enough to lose the most important piece of information that was the sole purpose of the magic letter.
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All mana decays over time. It doesn't matter how complicated your remote control is if the car no longer exists. The summon was meant to go to taylor, request a summon, and then give her control over a mana construct body. If the summon failed the first time, and the body no longer exists, it literally does not matter how complex and well designed the spell is. There's still nowhere to send Taylor's consciousness temporarily.

The map is fine, but the exact house it leads to no longer exists.
 
Hmm, even if you did have a way to keep the mana around, if you cast a summon for some specific task and it failed, and then you did something else and forget about it, would you really want that summon to poof in next to you three months later while you're in the shower?
 
This is unrelated to the current update, but I just had a (hopefully) great idea for the next time we're doing research and wanted to share before I forgot it. Specifically, how to research conceptual magic and everything else safely.

We've seen that we have access to the result of all experiments, even those conducted solely in thinker simulations. So theoretically, we should be entirely protected from any dangerous results of an experiment if it's only performed in such a simulation. And hey, we just hired a thinker!

This should still be experimented with carefully to be sure it's safe. Conceptual magic is weird enough that we're going to want to verify that it can't somehow leak back into reality before going wild with it. And I could see too much of this at a time giving Lisa a thinker headache. But if it does work, we can test almost anything safely.
 
Shadestyle said:
All mana decays over time. It doesn't matter how complicated your remote control is if the car no longer exists. The summon was meant to go to taylor, request a summon, and then give her control over a mana construct body. If the summon failed the first time, and the body no longer exists, it literally does not matter how complex and well designed the spell is. There's still nowhere to send Taylor's consciousness temporarily.

The map is fine, but the exact house it leads to no longer exists.
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That makes sense, but wasn't really conveyed in the chapter. We weren't given an explanation for why there wasn't a valid destination for the summon anymore so my assumption was that information was corrupted due to decay since right before that they talked about how the letter's magic had decayed. The RC car analogy makes more sense with this explanation though. Actually some version of this explanation would work a lot better than the analogy in the chapter as well. This is because you used the analogy in place of the explanation instead of to clarify or simplify the explanation after it was given. To put it another way the analogy didn't help me understand what was going on while your explanation did.
 
I don't know... reading QA talking felt weird. It was like she was making her speech harder to be understood, answering questions with questions or rather than directly say what she means, she spins it in a more poetic kind of speech.

I don't think I liked this version of QA. Can we unsummon her and cease talks?
 
BeepSmile said:
I see a very clear nothing where mention of the conflict drive would otherwise be.
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Every second cape and their dog being mastered by their power is a surprisingly persistent fanon. Maybe because it's exactly the kind of grimderp crap Wildbow is (in)famous for.

SCO said:
unless QA agrees to stay with Lisa (which would be... uncomfortable... to her
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But oh so spectacular to us. :drevil:

hyrushoten said:
Which is a bit weird when you think about it. This magic letter is supposedly amazingly complex and well constructed.
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Unless it's not an invitation, but something designed to convincingly look like one. My guess, the letter was sent not through space but through time, and this whole mana clusterfuck is a stable time loop. A self-fulfilling prophesy destined to create a brighter future for all involved parties and deal with Golden Idiot in the meantime.

hyrushoten said:
unless we're bringing QA home with us this isn't something to really talk about with Danny.
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Why tho? The sooner dude grow tolerance to bullshit the better. If he want to be closer to Tay-Tay's life and all the weirdness that entail, he can have his own soul unshackled any day.

BagFullOfLizards said:
So theoretically, we should be entirely protected from any dangerous results of an experiment if it's only performed in such a simulation. And hey, we just hired a thinker!
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Unless those results are conceptual. Or a memetic hazard. Or any other flavor of magical nonsense.
And our newly-recruited thinker is not expendable.
 
BeepSmile said:
Also also, QA is a lying liar who lies. Or at least an omitting omitter who omits. I see a very clear nothing where mention of the conflict drive would otherwise be.
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Genuinely, I think that Talor should just talk to Danny about this - she's been keeping secrets, he's picked up on it and talking about this will go a long way to getting past that.
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Taylor actually just has a Research Drive, which QA fully admitted to.
Also yeah, I feel Armogeddan and the Nature of Powers is something Dear Old Dad should know about.
FeatheredSerpent said:
Unless those results are conceptual. Or a memetic hazard. Or any other flavor of magical nonsense.
And our newly-recruited thinker is not expendable.
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Yeah, Lisa got a nosebleed last time, we don't want to make her quit or consistently over-use her power.
She wants a piece of the pie, let's not include her flesh and mind in the recipe.
 
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Hmmm, should we posit the response that as problematic as magic might have been for QA, it is probably also the answer to the problem she has listed? We've already snapped a few of the other laws of physics over our knee, and used Reroll to twist reality into a screaming knot until it decided that our armor was a robe; why should entropy be exempt? We'll be generating energy from nothing but sheer will and beating the laws of thermodynamics over the head with an angry dragon in no time!
 
So, question for the thread, because I feel we don't discuss enough, and I think we should try to plan more. Lisa has spoken of the Pie sage will eventually create. What would you have this Pie be?
 
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I assume she meant a monetary one, and the actual *creating value* part is not really an issue, it's making sure we don't release extremely dangerous things into the wrong hands in the process of doing so, and working around NEPEA-5, that are the real challenges.
 
The Shallow said:
So, question for the tread, because I feel we don't discuss enough, and I think we should try to plan more. Lisa has spoken of the Pie sage will eventually create. What would you have this Pie be?
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Well, since Tayor can awaken the magic in others, I personally want Taylor to eventually become the headmistress of the world's first magic academy. So first master the fields of magic until we can teach them, then build a school. Bonus points if we can transform Brockton Bay into the first magical city in the world(with access to other magical worlds).
 
ArmokGoB said:
I assume she meant a monetary one, and the actual *creating value* part is not really an issue, it's making sure we don't release extremely dangerous things into the wrong hands in the process of doing so, and working around NEPEA-5, that are the real challenges.
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I don't think it's all just money. Lisa sees a lot of potential in taylor, besides a big buck. Taylor can shake shit up a lot if she wants, and once she begins to, Lisa wants to be on the "winning side" if you will.
 
Let's see, I can see several possibilities;

1: As stated, if she can get around the legal troubles, Taylor will have little trouble raking in ludicrous amounts of cash. She can already create self-sustaining mutated ecosystems that can generate organic products at a truly ludicrous rate, potentially cornering the markets for food, spices, cloth, and just about anything else that grows on a plant simply because no one without magic plants can possibly compete. Considering that the Endbringers have ruined overseas trade, this could be a big deal.

2: Also as stated, Taylor could potentially infuse others with the ability to use magic. If Lisa can sense this, it is absolutely sensible that she wants to be on the short list of people who get it first. Because if you avoid killing yourself, magic appears to be something that builds on itself endlessly as you continue to study. Without perfect memory, there's probably a plateau, but said point is probably on the same level as even the most powerful of Parahumans, if not higher. The first people to get magic have a solid shot at ending up as demigods walking among men, and Lisa totally would want to jump on the chance to actually be as much smarter than everyone else as she thinks she is.

3: Sage could already completely alter the power structure of the city at the very least if she let out what she was really capable of. Proper application of alchemical or conceptual magic could probably kill Lung, or even the Triumvirate. Or turn them into mindless zombie slaves. If Taylor ever ends up deciding she wants to be the Dark Sorceress-Queen of Brockton Bay, Lisa probably wants to be in the position of 'trusted lieutenant' as opposed to 'dangerous liability'... given that the latter might end up getting quickly reclassified into 'brainwashed minion' or 'piteous toad'.
 
Shadestyle said:
All mana decays over time. It doesn't matter how complicated your remote control is if the car no longer exists. The summon was meant to go to taylor, request a summon, and then give her control over a mana construct body. If the summon failed the first time, and the body no longer exists, it literally does not matter how complex and well designed the spell is. There's still nowhere to send Taylor's consciousness temporarily.

The map is fine, but the exact house it leads to no longer exists.
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Hmmm... I wonder if we could use the invite as a focus for summoning our summoner. Also the "come by any time" is kind of disingenuous if it's time limited.
 
Probably the "come by any time" is a detail shaped by their intent and emotional approach at the moment of casting, but the time limited nature is inherent to the one-size-fits-all summoning spell.
 
Razzocnor said:
As stated, if she can get around the legal troubles, Taylor will have little trouble raking in ludicrous amounts of cash. She can already create self-sustaining mutated ecosystems that can generate organic products at a truly ludicrous rate, potentially cornering the markets for food, spices, cloth, and just about anything else that grows on a plant simply because no one without magic plants can possibly compete. Considering that the Endbringers have ruined overseas trade, this could be a big deal.
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Yes, there is a lot of money to be made, but if we start producing more than non-capes feasably could, NEPEA fucks us over.
Maybe once we've made up with Emma we can see if we can convince Uncle Allen to pick up Cape Law and help us out?
We need a Lawyer specialized in Parahuman shit.
 
Dealing with the legal problems would be the big hurdle. Or, well, we could try doing something like having Sage sell a couple warehouses full of mutated farms to the DWU as 'tinkertech creations', have them employ their members managing them, picking the products, bringing in fresh dirt etc. and sell the products as a non-cape organization, then feed some of the money back to Taylor somehow (maybe hire her civilian identity as an intern or something?) or other such convoluted plans, but we might want an actual lawyer to organize it all so that its legal (or make Lisa read a bookshelf full of lawbooks, she seems like the kind of person who could find *all the loopholes*).
 
Razzocnor said:
Dealing with the legal problems would be the big hurdle. Or, well, we could try doing something like having Sage sell a couple warehouses full of mutated farms to the DWU as 'tinkertech creations', have them employ their members managing them, picking the products, bringing in fresh dirt etc. and sell the products as a non-cape organization, then feed some of the money back to Taylor somehow (maybe hire her civilian identity as an intern or something?) or other such convoluted plans, but we might want an actual lawyer to organize it all so that its legal (or make Lisa read a bookshelf full of lawbooks, she seems like the kind of person who could find *all the loopholes*).
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...Selling tinkertech farms is FEASABLE but a terrible idea. Like, that's biotinkering and possibly skirting on NEPEA territory. Also less convoluted is Sage taking care of upkeep in return for a portion of sales, but I think this is a terrible plan.
 
The Shallow said:
So, question for the thread, because I feel we don't discuss enough, and I think we should try to plan more. Lisa has spoken of the Pie sage will eventually create. What would you have this Pie be?
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Apple!

No, wait. Gooseberry. Gooseberry pie.

But in all seriousness, when we next spend time with Lisa, we should order her some pie.

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But we should also very much plan more. Make wards and "notice me not" defences to help reduce chaces of people figuring out Taylor is Sage.

Tracking/Divination spells to help find Coil (metagame: Baccuda and her bombs too).

Actual defences to equip Danny and Lisa and maybe Amy if she wants some, like deflection shields or luck boosters.

When we eventually make a sand-to-magic[1] recharging station for them.
[1] highly limited, only works when a rechargeable item is in it and needs charge, and other such reasonable limitations.
 
This is such a good quest, no idea how it hasn't blown up yet!

How do you come up with all the results of interactions though???
 
QM probably planned out at least the skeleton of the mechanics.
 
AzureShogun said:
This is such a good quest, no idea how it hasn't blown up yet!

How do you come up with all the results of interactions though???
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cryptoam said:
QM probably planned out at least the skeleton of the mechanics.
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This game is a crossover with another setting I created over the past couple of years. Almost everything you guys have done or do has mostly already been theorycrafted or had guidelines prepared in advance. This quest is a way of refining certain aspects of that. So, while I'm making up a lot of it as I go along, I do actually have a definite ruleset or guidelines that I use for almost every interaction and test.
 
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