Combinatorial Explosion (Worm/Original)
- Thread starter Shadestyle
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- Sweden
No way in hel will Negotiator let this go though, it will prod Lisa to keep investigating the language until it either is contaminated to a similar degree to QA; or somehow figure out something bad with it.
Better Taylor gifts Lisa magic before she grabs it on her own like a scorned warlock.
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Looking through our list, I have a request to make. Can we fit
Arcane > (Thaum)
info our testing spree at some point? The ability to emulate thaumic magic within our arcane vocabulary would allow for some very interesting possibilities if we can pull it off.
I fully expect Taylor's first couple attempts at this to just 'not work' because doing this is stubbornly bulldozing past magic's self-separation such as it is. It would, however, likely be much less dangerous than alchemy.
Arcane > (Thaum)
info our testing spree at some point? The ability to emulate thaumic magic within our arcane vocabulary would allow for some very interesting possibilities if we can pull it off.
I fully expect Taylor's first couple attempts at this to just 'not work' because doing this is stubbornly bulldozing past magic's self-separation such as it is. It would, however, likely be much less dangerous than alchemy.
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| Air | Arcane > Air | Ambient Noise | Wave | This mana whispers words of magic that seem to lack coherence or any discernible rationale. These words describe the world around the mana, in the languages of magic. | Failed to Properly Scan. Most details unknown. |
This is the mana type you suggested, as it is presented. Arcane > Thaum is just Arcane > Air.
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- Brazil
Where is 20.4? Does it exists? Now that I'm looking, .1.2 are not on treadmarks
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No. I've just been using decimels to split up chapters, sorry.
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Ah. Ok. Gotcha. I was trying to work up to a different dimension of compound mana types, where Arcane > Thaum > Gold is distinct from Arcane > (Thaum > Gold), implementing pointers/structures as an extension of the now-formalized last in first out mana structure, but that was just me spitballing. Also, I don't quite remember what Arcane is, tbh. Need to refresh, honestly.
What was the terminology for forcing mana to change to another type through sheer force of will again? *turns away mumbling and continues poking at the system*
EDIT: I will get object-oriented programming working with your mana mechanics somehow! This is already nearly turing complete. I... just... need... to...
What was the terminology for forcing mana to change to another type through sheer force of will again? *turns away mumbling and continues poking at the system*
EDIT: I will get object-oriented programming working with your mana mechanics somehow! This is already nearly turing complete. I... just... need... to...
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- Dragyxx
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Arcane is mana that was generated/infused in a medium of water instead of air (which is Thaum).
Speaking of which, do we want to try testing other base media? We could probably try sand/earth if nothing else (fire would probably be another, but will wait until we have a way of safely sticking our hands in fire).
Speaking of which, do we want to try testing other base media? We could probably try sand/earth if nothing else (fire would probably be another, but will wait until we have a way of safely sticking our hands in fire).
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Forcing mana to change properties via will doesn't have a specific designation yet beyond just "Channeling" or "Willing" it. In the future, if you guys force attunement chains to change using willpower, that DOES have a specific term.
Arcane Mana is mana attuned in a watery medium, from beginning to end. (It is shorthand for having "water" between, before and after all attunements made.
("Arcane > Ruby > Sapphire > Emerald" is shorthand for "Water > Ruby > Water > Sapphire > Water > Emerald > Water", for example, and the same applies to Thaum, it would be Air > X > Air > Y > Air > Z)
If you want turing-complete magic, I'd go after phonems. IIRC, you've already got a phonem that is LITERALLY the archetypical Turing machine.
| Circuit Board Shard | Dit | Spellcheck | Mana interprets electricity, reading the number of electrical signals recieved within the same timeframe as a phonem for it to repeat among the phonems already applied to it. | |
| Clock-and-Dominoes Experiment | Dingcacklackle | Timer | After this phonem is uttered, mana begins counting upwards the current time, phonems applied to it do not apply until that long after the phonem "Cacklelacklecathack" is uttered. | This phonem was discovered by studying an alarm clock going off to trigger dominoes. |
| Clock-and-Dominoes Experiment | Ringtatatata | Domino Effect | Mana affected by this phonem will apply its phonems to mana it comes into contact with, but only once "Cacklelacklecathack" is uttered. | This phonem was discovered by studying an alarm clock going off to trigger dominoes. |
| Dad-Student Experiment | Ch-ch-ch-ch | Undo Half | Mana affected by this mana undoes half of the phonems that have been applied to it thus far, rounding up. | This phonem was discovered by studying dad study a book intently. |
| Dad-Student Experiment | Frip | Index | Mana affected by this mana will begin to repeat the first phonem cast on it when a new phonem is applied to it, counting upwards as new phonems are applied. I.E, the first phonem after this one is followed by the first phonem overall, the second is followed by the second, and so on. | This phonem was discovered by studying dad study a book intently. |
These phonems are especially useful if you want to make proper Thaumic Spells, and since you can study anything for phonems, you could try to fill out any missing components yourself, if you can think of the right subject of study.
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Thanks! Yeah. I'm aware of the phonems-solution. I just... poking harder at phonems doesn't feel like its expanding the magic system into a platonic-form extension of turing completeness. What it is doing is it allows for magic to emulate a turing-complete computational engine, which is distinct. Rather than applying a turing-complete set of manipulations to phonem-data, I hope to apply the same principle to fundamental mana-aspects. I see this as being an orthogonal goal to what you describe. Does this make sense?
EDIT: For clarification. Yes, my next-step-after-turing-complete is object oriented programming. In the information space of platonic forms, this would mean that instantiating an object is defining a new platonic form. Whether or not reality supports automatic memory collection has yet to be seen.
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Absolutely. I get what you're getting at now. I'm unsure if Mana Attunement is turning complete by default, but there are definitely methods to push it there.
Taylor is a strong willed, fairly skilled Channeler, which comes with some benefits. You could always try just having Taylor attempt to force mana dynamics and behaviors that she wants, where cursory experimentation fail. Dare I say it, it's one of the hallmarks of Channeling, as opposed to other Arch-schools of magic like Spellcraft, (which is designed as a system for more meticulous, less willful designs. It's meant to be like programming in the first place)
If you specifically desire the ability to force all mana to take on Arcane Mana's properties, Taylor can already do that with sufficiently potent willpower, as is demonstrated with her other Willed Magic Effects.
I'm sure, even if you don't want to cheat with willpower, you can still figure out a way to achieve intricate and complex control over Mana effects via attunement. It'll just be a lot harder and possibly inconsistent (After all, at the end of the day, I can't read your mind when you put forth an attunement chain with all the clever care of a master programmer, and I just sort of interpret it as best I can using the rules of Mana Attunement)
You currently have no way of knowing if first attempts at Mana attunement are influenced by willpower, due to having no other channelers to compare notes to.
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Forced attunement chains should not include additional notation, they should be appended with stated intent, like so
Or, if the goal is to simply USE mana a particular way for a one-off project or plan, rather than to create a will-influenced attunement chain for later referral, you would use something like the following,
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Mwahahaha~<extended stereotypical laughter cut for your convenience>! Here you miss the true depths of my genius.
By focusing on implementing pointers and on the compartmentalization of parenthesis-like structures before getting variables working, this issue can be bypassed.
Issue: human meat-brain and fuzzy nature of the language makes for a poor compiler
Solution: test known bits of 'code' and rely on Taylor's true superpower absolute memory for magic to allow for her to call on known attunement-complexes
This will allow for an effective shift from programming in an absurd assembly-adjacent language to working with an ever-growing lisp library with necessarily intuitive functionality.
The shorter the code, the easier it is to parse. It might not be elegant in the mathematical sense, but approaching a Scratch-like drag-and-drop system with big handy code blocks will make that at least marginally viable.
The Shallow
Shallow, Yet Deep
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- She/They
At least, until now.
Last-in-First-Out Magic Tips
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Keep in mind that, (Now that Lisa has spoiled it, I have no shame in explaining this to simplify gameplay OOC), The Last-in-First-Out method of Mana Attunement means that you cannot insert code blocks anywhere except the earliest point of an attunement chain and still receive predictable behavior outside of certain niche chains in which there is only one possible set of results.
Fire > Fire > Emerald = Rocky Road Flames
(Rocky Road Flames) > Fire is a valid use of a 'Pointer' in Mana Attunement terms, as the Last-In-First-Out method interprets the mana attunement as "Do Rocky Road Flames" using "Fire" at the end of the day.
However, the opposite is NOT true, and I've been automatically blowing up attunement chains that attempt to defy this.
Example:
Fire > Rocky Road Flames is an invalid Mana Attunement Chain, as it assumes the result will be "Do Fire using Rocky Road Flames", when in reality, the actual attunement chain is:
Fire > Fire > Fire > Emerald, which is interpreted as "Do Fire using Fire Using Fire Using Emerald". The result would likely have nothing to do with Rocky Road Flames, whatever they may be, as the Last-in-First-Out system can only recognize predictable behavior in the earliest stacks.
All mana attunements beginning with Rocky Road Flames will have results that, at their core, "Attempt to do" Rocky Road Flames, as you can automatically reparse > Fire > Fire > Emerald as that effect, which is then attempted by the next part of the attunement.
Keep this in mind, as it means whatever pointers you want to apply, if you don't want them at the very beginning, you'll have to use Precious Metals (Which slowly revert attunement chains to their original effect with each recursion), or you'll have to use "Convenient" chains that tend towards the same effect (Repeating Salt tends to result in separation that create separation, even if you do it in the middle of a chain or the end of one, and Lead recursions tend to result in stealing mass from things to achieve an effect, even if put later on in a chain)
I feel no shame or annoyance explaining these things, since they're not really "Learnable", and you already know the "Pieces" that lead up to it.
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Indeed! And that challenge is a big part of the fun 
I spend so much time working with normal coding languages that an abstract reality-encoding language would be almost disappointing if it admitted such convenient things as 'code does the same thing in different circumstances'.
Figuring out a logical framework that allows me to consistently conceptualize the dynamics here is going to be a lovely problem to work on.
I spend so much time working with normal coding languages that an abstract reality-encoding language would be almost disappointing if it admitted such convenient things as 'code does the same thing in different circumstances'.
Figuring out a logical framework that allows me to consistently conceptualize the dynamics here is going to be a lovely problem to work on.
MaimakteriAnn
(Verified Sleepy)
- Location
- Enormous And Round Terran Homeworld
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Dr
Thaum, chloride, chloride? What chloride? Alternately how the hell did she get chloride with no cation? How did it not dissolve the vessel?
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Whoops! That's probably meant to be chlorine. I'll have to correct that in the mana docs.
Edit* Corrected accordingly! Thanks for the catch!
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