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Breaker of Chains (30k Angron Quest)

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So, I generally agree with the idea of getting someone else powerful in on it. I don't agree it should be a Primarch — most of the reliable ones have good reasons to say 'no, not doing that', I think the best we could get is Dorn, which would get... interesting in the aftermath. Russ would be great if he didn't want Angron deader than dead or under his bootheel, but he does.

No, instead we should approach Malcador. He has a motive (he truly believes in the Crusade, albeit not for the stated reasons), a means (if he hasn't had a contingency for the Night Lords for at least a hundred years I will eat my hat) and after the political hits he and the Imperium's institutions took at Nikaea, he will absolutely take an opportunity for personal favours from two of the more unreliable Primarchs.

What could go wrong?
(Lots of things, all of them in very cool or funny ways)
 
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tbh curve does not fuck around with justice stuff I def believe he gave a full throated effort on trying to convince horus or emp on killing curze...they said no... so we can't have it both ways we either don't do it cause horus or other stuff or we do it their no way around that
 
Honestly, if we're looking for someone higher up (a la Horus) to help kill the Night Lords and dispose of the bodies afterwards...

Malcador the Sigilite isn't a completely crazy option?

He's got the resources and influence to help run down the Night Lords and put them down AND to cover it up afterwards, he's at odds with Horus and in the doghouse with the Emperor, which means he needs connections and allies (like Corax and Angron), and he absolutely has no objections to killing Curze and his Legion, he probably already has a plan to clean that mess up not because he has moral objections industrial scale flaying but because the Night Lords are sloppy and uncontrollable.
 
Lisafication said:
So, I generally agree with the idea of getting someone else powerful in on it. I don't agree it should be a Primarch — most of the reliable ones have good reasons to say 'no, not doing that', I think the best we could get is Dorn, which would get... interesting in the aftermath. Russ would be great if he didn't want Angron deader than dead or under his bootheel, but he does.

No, instead we should approach Malcador. He has a motive (he truly believes in the Crusade, albeit not for the stated reasons), a means (if he hasn't had a contingency for the Night Lords for at least a hundred years I will eat my hat) and after the political hits he and the Imperium's institutions took at Nikaea, he will absolutely take an opportunity for personal favours from two of the more unreliable Primarchs.

What could go wrong?
(Lots of things, all of them in very cool or funny ways)
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I think it's an idea that fills me with glee for how wonderfully it would both succeed and also go completely sideways in a manner that would be incredible to read. I'm all for it. The guy has like, three black ops war crimes organisations for doing exactly this sort of shit, and is busily constructing his fourth. He's perfect.

It's also worth noting that like, the 'favour' we'd owe him is blackmail material that basically nobody would actually care about after the fact. I can think of plenty of Primarch's who'd balk at being personally involved in shanking Kurze. I don't think any of them would actually object to him getting offed, if it just Mysteriously Happened one day.
 
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[?] Yes
- [?] Volunteer our upcoming marriage to Lotara as cover for any suspicious movements. She'll probably be pissed but maybe the following fight will be a good present?
 
Tabascoheath said:
HOLY SHIT I JUST REMEMBERED, those Eldar chumps, the ones we fucked up with sanguinius, they owe us a Solid for not blowing up their craftworld, sounds like we could call in that debt to hunt down the myriad warbands of the bastard 8th.
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That was a very specific "come save me when I'm in mortal danger" debt, but the conversation with Sanguinius that followed did reveal that Angron had other outstanding debts that he could call upon. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a "help me find someone I need to kill" somewhere in his book of IOUs.

That said, the news of the planet's destruction needs to be general knowledge before kill the bat. Otherwise... misconceptions might be cultivated, that'd lead to needless conflict.
 
My issue with approaching Dorn specifically is that I just can't see him, not even tattling to the Emperor afterwards, going straight to either Horus or Big E the moment Corax & Angron make their pitch , Dorn is many things good and bad, but he just isn't wired to be a vigilante on the edge playing by his own rules, he'd gladly put Curze down but he'd want it approved by the Proper Authorities first.

Also in general the more Primarchs and other figures of note Angron & Corax approach for their criminal conspiracy the higher the odds that somebody rats the whole thing out to the Emperor, when you're killing someone theoretically on the same side as you and covering it up you want to run a tight ship with a small crew.
 
Wade Garrett said:
My issue with approaching Dorn specifically is that I just can't see him, not even tattling to the Emperor afterwards, going straight to either Horus or Big E the moment Corax & Angron make their pitch , Dorn is many things good and bad, but he just isn't wired to be a vigilante on the edge playing by his own rules, he'd gladly put Curze down but he'd want it approved by the Proper Authorities first.

Also in general the more Primarchs and other figures of note Angron & Corax approach for their criminal conspiracy the higher the odds that somebody rats the whole thing out to the Emperor, when you're killing someone theoretically on the same side as you and covering it up you want to run a tight ship with a small crew.
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Yeah, on reflection I like Malcador more for this, and one of the big reasons why is that the guy is King Spook, The Spook of Spooks, he can absolutely keep this under wraps. I mean he'll keep it quiet to try and use it as blackmail material later, but be honest, anybody who can be blackmailed against us for killing the guy who personally designed mass-producible flaying pits was never going to vibe with us to begin with. The only Primarch who actually likes Kurze is Mortarion, and Mortarion already hates us enough that all it would take to convince him to fuck with us is an opportunity.
 
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the primarch I be down with apporaching plus mal, sang we just made friends with him and he be down with destroying this evil, vulkan hate the guy is the chillest primarch great overall one of the best for it tbh, Khan ain't no snitch and he does not care about emp and be down with destroying this monster and maybe gullinamn he bring a shit ton of troops to the table is indepentish, does not like curze at all
 
Wasn't Night Haunter destroying his homeworld in canon partly instigated by Dorn letting his mouth run in the worst possible way? I'd prefer to avoid a reprise of that.
 
I'll admit that I'm pretty against Malcador being brought in on this on any level. It just doesn't seem wise in the grand scheme of things.
 
I'm definetly down with approaching Malcador but that option does have the problems of going over Horus's head and 100% gives the power of which Primarch lives or dies to him.
 
We can't start a civil war without at least bringing this to Horus. It would also be a good idea to get some other Primarchs involved. Who would Corvus be okay with bringing in?
 
Look, I know everyone hates Konrad, and for good reason, but something about this doesn't sit right with me. This whole situation feels like massive Heresy bait, like someone is trying to get us to go fight him. Angron has just now decided to make more of himself than a guy who's really good with an axe—I think now is an excellent time to put that to the test by deciding not to shoot first and ask questions later.

With that said: capturing him for trial isn't a half-bad option in that it would at least give him a chance to talk about what's going on. There's also the alternative of going to (what's left of) Nostromo, to see if there are any survivors who might be able to shed light on what Konrad is doing.
 
You know, the whole fight about keeping Malcador out of Horus's matters would be made somewhat meaningless if we bring Malcador into something that is undoubtedly Horus's domain. I don't really see how we would justify going over the Warmaster's head here.
 
Tomsawyer18 said:
I'm definetly down with approaching Malcador but that option does have the problems of going over Horus's head and 100% gives the power of which Primarch lives or dies to him.
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I mean, killing Kurze at all is going over Horus' head. The guy isn't going to be happy to find out that at least three legions are fighting a civil war less than a month into his reign as Warmaster. Pissing Horus off is basically taken for granted, at this point.
 
We are gonna have to go over horus head if we want to keep our oath to corax to help him out with what he needs help with(kill curze) thand it dick move and imo out of angron chac to go back on his word to corax
 
Killing an insane sadistic super post-human Batman with twisted (but sometimes correct) visions of the future would be tough even for an insane raging super post-human Spartacus expy.

That's what'll make it fun.
 
Tomsawyer18 said:
I'm definetly down with approaching Malcador but that option does have the problems of going over Horus's head and 100% gives the power of which Primarch lives or dies to him.
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I figure that you can either go over Horus's head or make an enemy of Corax by going over his head to someone he hates, there's not really any in-between there, because Corax has tried official routes and he has negative faith in Horus.
Kirook said:
Look, I know everyone hates Konrad, and for good reason, but something about this doesn't sit right with me. This whole situation feels like massive Heresy bait, like someone is trying to get us to go fight him. Angron has just now decided to make more of himself than a guy who's really good with an axe—I think now is an excellent time to put that to the test by deciding not to shoot first and ask questions later..
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Y-yes, Corax is trying to do that. He is explicitly trying to get us to go and fight Curze with him.
 
Kirook said:
Look, I know everyone hates Konrad, and for good reason, but something about this doesn't sit right with me. This whole situation feels like massive Heresy bait, like someone is trying to get us to go fight him. Angron has just now decided to make more of himself than a guy who's really good with an axe—I think now is an excellent time to put that to the test by deciding not to shoot first and ask questions later.

With that said: capturing him for trial isn't a half-bad option in that it would at least give him a chance to talk about what's going on. There's also the alternative of going to (what's left of) Nostromo, to see if there are any survivors who might be able to shed light on what Konrad is doing.
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Look, just because Corax is an idealistic rebel and upsetter of apple carts by inclination (Tzeencht bait) whose Legion already has an aesthetic and modus operandi that would fit well with "Tzeencht as the sneaky plots guy" and "Tzeencht the my daemons are freaky bird things" guy, and Angron has Legally Distinct From Tzeencht hopping around offering him totally legit bargains, that doesn't necessarily mean we're waltzing right into a canon Burning of Prospero style Tzeencht plot, right?

.......right?
 
Yeah, a reminder for folks:
Maugan Ra said:
"I'd have rather avoided it, but I can't look away any longer," Corax admits in a low voice, "We have let evil fester in our midst for a century or more, and now we must cut it out. Like you said, the Emperor has stepped back, so now we have to step up. I'll do this alone if I must, but… it would be better to have you by my side on this, Angron."
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Corvus Corax, the principled revolutionary, is not trying to entrap Angron into going rogue, lol. He's pulling the trigger on offing Kurze whatever happens, he'd just like us on-side.
 
Aleph said:
I might go so far as to say - and I swear I'm not just trying to reenact the Drop Site Massacre here, though it is a hilarious coincidence - that we might want to drop or leak or set up something that will attract the Night Lords, bait of some kind so tempting that they can't resist clustering up to go for it, in order to pen them in and wipe as many of them out as possible without any escaping.
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Not to try for 'to clever by half' but if we could bait them into something that like, we can plausibly go 'they attacked, we just defended'. Well... I doubt it's going to fool people, but it gives a 'out' for everyone to pretend that we didn't just go rogue on a legion. It's not like legions and primarchs haven't been removed before.
 
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