- Location
- Britain
In this continuity, they haven't, see the informational threadmark on the Lost Primarchs.
Breaker of Chains (30k Angron Quest)
- Thread starter Maugan Ra
- Start date
- Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Tabascoheath
Unkempt, Evil-eyed Charlatan, and Pseudo-Mystic
- Location
- Your Nearest Orbital Habitat
I'm on board with outing Curzes atrocities on the other Primarchs, if we do that and go to Horus with an offer of "hey guess what we can do" we could pull off something real nasty, but as I said in an earlier post, fuck the old man, involving Malcador in this is inviting more trouble than we want, better to join our brothers in dragging Curze to a trial so rigged you'd call it seaworthy.
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The QM should correct me if I'm wrong, but it is important to remember that this Quest is not canon.
The actions of the Primarchs in canon do not determine their actions in this Quest. There may be broad similarities, but citing the choices people made in canon is not evidence of the choices they will make in this Quest. Please stop using the actions of canon Primarchs to predict the actions of Quest Primarchs, as the two are not the same.
Exhibit A: Angron
I think Yes.
I don't want to work with Malcador because if we work with Malcador then he'll be in charge. However, I suspect that he will be less than upset by our decision. Malcador likes things nice and orderly, and Curze is a mad dog.
The basic plan is to go after Curze, kill him, and then claim that Curze attacked us when we tried to reason with him. We were forced to kill him along with his Legion, such a tragedy. The great advantage to this plan is that no one likes Curze or the Night Lords. He has no friends or allies who might call for an investigation. Even if our enemies try to use it against us, "Corax and Angron put the mad dog down" is the kind of deed that gets you a medal, not a trial.
The humanitarians hate Curze because he is a monster, while the True Believers hate Curze because he is a lunatic who doesn't care about the Imperial Truth and kills people for his own amusement. We have plausible deniability, because everyone knows that Curze absolutely could go mad and attack his fellow Primarchs. Will they actually believe that was what happened? Probably not, but they also won't care.
I want to say Yes, and Angron has to say Yes. It's in-character for him to keep his word and put down the mad dog Curze. The question is how, and that's when it gets complicated.
Going behind the Warmaster's back will not make him happy, but if we tell him and he says No then we would be disobeying a direct order. That would be...unwise. It is easier to ask forgiveness than permission, but the damage to his authority and our relationship could be substantial.
I'm inclined to say not; Corax approached us for help, he didn't trust Horus, and we can truthfully say that we didn't approach Horus because Corax didn't want us to. We owe him a debt of honor, and Horus will understand even if he is displeased.
In the aftermath, we claim that Curze Shot First. It might even be true!
The actions of the Primarchs in canon do not determine their actions in this Quest. There may be broad similarities, but citing the choices people made in canon is not evidence of the choices they will make in this Quest. Please stop using the actions of canon Primarchs to predict the actions of Quest Primarchs, as the two are not the same.
Exhibit A: Angron
I think Yes.
I don't want to work with Malcador because if we work with Malcador then he'll be in charge. However, I suspect that he will be less than upset by our decision. Malcador likes things nice and orderly, and Curze is a mad dog.
The basic plan is to go after Curze, kill him, and then claim that Curze attacked us when we tried to reason with him. We were forced to kill him along with his Legion, such a tragedy. The great advantage to this plan is that no one likes Curze or the Night Lords. He has no friends or allies who might call for an investigation. Even if our enemies try to use it against us, "Corax and Angron put the mad dog down" is the kind of deed that gets you a medal, not a trial.
The humanitarians hate Curze because he is a monster, while the True Believers hate Curze because he is a lunatic who doesn't care about the Imperial Truth and kills people for his own amusement. We have plausible deniability, because everyone knows that Curze absolutely could go mad and attack his fellow Primarchs. Will they actually believe that was what happened? Probably not, but they also won't care.
I want to say Yes, and Angron has to say Yes. It's in-character for him to keep his word and put down the mad dog Curze. The question is how, and that's when it gets complicated.
Going behind the Warmaster's back will not make him happy, but if we tell him and he says No then we would be disobeying a direct order. That would be...unwise. It is easier to ask forgiveness than permission, but the damage to his authority and our relationship could be substantial.
I'm inclined to say not; Corax approached us for help, he didn't trust Horus, and we can truthfully say that we didn't approach Horus because Corax didn't want us to. We owe him a debt of honor, and Horus will understand even if he is displeased.
In the aftermath, we claim that Curze Shot First. It might even be true!
Da Boyz
The Cutest Apocalypse.
Weren't Chaplains as a station founded during the Council which we just left?
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
In canon for the Legions, yes. Here they're a civilian office that Lorgar helped set up for territories the Chainbreakers conquered for the purposes of integration (and kicking out Iterators on the down low).
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
Problem: Every other faction we approach to help with this is one more group who can blow any pretence of secrecy open. This needs to be kept lean and quiet. I'd be uncomfortable going to more than like, two significant figures.
So, before we rule it out, Horus is an option.
Yes, Corvax won't like it. But Corvax wants rid of Night Haunter. The question here, Angron might pose to him, is whether he wants rid of Night Haunter more than he wants to keep his hands clean of dealing with Horus.
And again, the option might exists to... well, "use" Horus for a measure of legal cover. Abuse his trust, basically. Which will make him very mad, but in private, afterwards. For example, if Angron goes to Horus with something along the lines of "we need to bring Night Haunter in to talk to Horus and understand exactly what the focus he is doing and why he appears to be off the reservation - I volunteer to do that" and oh hey for some reason Corvax joins Angron (and maybe some of Vulkan's boys) and oh hey Night Haunter's people started shooting back, what a mess, but look he's got a guilty conscience...
Horus will Not Be Happy, but he won't be able to say that in public because Horus isn't going to go to the wall for one basically-rogue primarch in the face of three.
Yes, Corvax won't like it. But Corvax wants rid of Night Haunter. The question here, Angron might pose to him, is whether he wants rid of Night Haunter more than he wants to keep his hands clean of dealing with Horus.
And again, the option might exists to... well, "use" Horus for a measure of legal cover. Abuse his trust, basically. Which will make him very mad, but in private, afterwards. For example, if Angron goes to Horus with something along the lines of "we need to bring Night Haunter in to talk to Horus and understand exactly what the focus he is doing and why he appears to be off the reservation - I volunteer to do that" and oh hey for some reason Corvax joins Angron (and maybe some of Vulkan's boys) and oh hey Night Haunter's people started shooting back, what a mess, but look he's got a guilty conscience...
Horus will Not Be Happy, but he won't be able to say that in public because Horus isn't going to go to the wall for one basically-rogue primarch in the face of three.
- Location
- Britain
I really don't think 'get official sanction and eight legions' is on the table as an option here, for the people suggesting it.
On the other hand, I generally agree with this as a conceptual possibility but I actually think it'd piss off Horus more than asking forgiveness over permission.
On the other hand, I generally agree with this as a conceptual possibility but I actually think it'd piss off Horus more than asking forgiveness over permission.
Oh, indeed, Angron would be blatantly taking Horus's name in vain to do that. But it is an option for legal cover - and I suspect that this, for example, would be part of a "get Dorn on board" set up because that turns into "Angron goes to Dorn, presents his case, Dorn and Angron go to Horus, Horus reluctantly signs off on it and oh whoops the Raven Guard just happened to be in the area with marine-killing numbers of plasma guns".
Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
The problem I have with "Presenting evidence of Curze's atrocities" to sway people is that the Night Lords haven't been covering up what they do.
At all.
Any Legion that's fought alongside them, any Primarch who has checked the records of their campaigns, anybody who has had a five minute conversation with Konrad is well aware of what the Eighth Legion does.
It's gonna take something more to get, say, Roboute Guilliman to move past "I am once again expressing grave concerns about the Night Lords Legion."
At all.
Any Legion that's fought alongside them, any Primarch who has checked the records of their campaigns, anybody who has had a five minute conversation with Konrad is well aware of what the Eighth Legion does.
It's gonna take something more to get, say, Roboute Guilliman to move past "I am once again expressing grave concerns about the Night Lords Legion."
HalfTangible
Only half sane (it's less cringe)
- Location
- Valkyrie, Primus
Corvus probably won't go for it if we suggest Horus. That much is obvious.
Getting rid of the Night Haunter MIGHT matter to him more than his personal animosity for the warmaster, but that's not something I'd personally bet on >.> could be a way to patch up their relationship maybe, if we're into that.
Getting rid of the Night Haunter MIGHT matter to him more than his personal animosity for the warmaster, but that's not something I'd personally bet on >.> could be a way to patch up their relationship maybe, if we're into that.
Meet The Spy(ace Marine)
Oh no he fell onto a bunch of chain axes and bolter rounds when we were taking him into custody.
And so did his entire legion.
And so did his entire legion.
- Location
- Britain
[X] Yes
-[X] Approach the Sigillite.
Malcador has a motive to help with this specifically, a means to assist and plenty of reasons to want to firm up his power base more generally. And perhaps, it might even put him even more at odds with the Emperor, and we are missing an evil ally from our collection...
(Perhaps Mortarion is not the only one who looks at Angron and sees the Emperor)
-[X] Approach the Sigillite.
Malcador has a motive to help with this specifically, a means to assist and plenty of reasons to want to firm up his power base more generally. And perhaps, it might even put him even more at odds with the Emperor, and we are missing an evil ally from our collection...
(Perhaps Mortarion is not the only one who looks at Angron and sees the Emperor)
I'd go for "zero". Two Legions is enough for the Night Lords.
Odds are that Corax says No.
We swore a debt of honor, and this isn't an unreasonable request. Unless we want to contact Horus behind Corax's back, which would be a betrayal of our agreement, then we can't inform him.
We can refuse to pay our debt to Corax in this manner, but informing on him to the Warmaster would be an act of treachery.
Horus is going to be upset with us, and that worries me. Unlike Angron, who makes dubious choices, I have the good sense to be terrified of Horus.
There are Primarchs who are smarter than we are and Primarchs who are tougher than we are and Primarchs who are more charismatic than we are.
Horus is all three. The Warmaster is a charming, friendly brother, but I have no doubt that he makes a very bad enemy. Abusing the trust of the Apex Warlord is not the kind of thing that the Apex Warlord forgets. If we need to ask Horus to trust us at some later date, his likely answer will be "No".
Go with Corax, kill Curze, and then tell everyone that Curze went mad and attacked us. I cannot list a single Primarch who will actually care. Horus will be annoyed that we went behind his back, but Curze already went rogue with censure, and we didn't defy a direct order. We just happened across the Night Lords flaying compliant Imperial citizens, such terrible crimes, and we tried to talk Curze down before he turned on us.
Malcador wants to kill Angron, of course, but this isn't the best casus belli and he'll probably be pleased. Curze was on The List too, so that's less work for the future!
Why are we approaching someone who is far better at sneaky backstabbing conspiracies than we are?
Even if Malcador helps us wipe out Curze, which is quite possible, he could easily find several ways to screw us over in the process.
Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
[X] Yes
-[X] Approach the Sigillite.
-[X] Approach the Sigillite.
I love the idea to bring in Malcador. May as well see if Alpharius wants in too on that route. It's a chance to show off his giant tacticool cock killing off a Legion so he may be up for it.
We might be able to do something with 'mistaken identity' if we can catch the Night Lords attacking a Compliant World. Killing a Primarch for whatever he does to people outside the Imperium is one thing, 'accidentally' offing a Primarch actively assaulting an Imperial world might be another. We could argue we never thought it could be Kurze because why would a Primarch do such a thing?
We might be able to do something with 'mistaken identity' if we can catch the Night Lords attacking a Compliant World. Killing a Primarch for whatever he does to people outside the Imperium is one thing, 'accidentally' offing a Primarch actively assaulting an Imperial world might be another. We could argue we never thought it could be Kurze because why would a Primarch do such a thing?
- Location
- Leeds
Or..... We tell Pert and get him to try and do it before Dorn can.
- Location
- SF Bay Area
What I meant by that is that it seems as if someone behind the scenes is trying to orchestrate a situation in which two Legions end up going to war on false pretenses, much like the canon Burning of Prospero as has already been mentioned. Just because Corvus Corax wants the Chainbreakers to fight the Night Lords doesn't mean he's the only person who wants that.
Imrix
Periodically Malevolent QM
Because,
a) he's far better at sneaky backstabs than we are
and
b) it'll be fucking hilarious.
Like, a good chunk of this vote is from a meta, 'what kind of story do we want to see?' perspective, and the prospect of Old Man Genocide going full-tilt apeshit on someone seems like a good time.
[ ] Yes
-[ ] Approach the Sigillite.
I could be convinced to talk to maybe Dorn and/or Horus as well, but for now Malcador is the must-have, for me.
EDIT: Vote later amended.
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Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
[X] Yes
-[X] Approach the Sigillite.
-[X] Approach the Sigillite.
Tabascoheath
Unkempt, Evil-eyed Charlatan, and Pseudo-Mystic
- Location
- Your Nearest Orbital Habitat
[X] Yes
- [X] Suggest tactics and allies (Vulkan) Your brother has always been the most humane, that much is obvious to anyone whose met him, given the loyalty between us and no love lost over the Eighths tactics it would be an easy thing to convince the Dragon to face the Night haunter. Upon gathering the three legions suggest a form of bait to bring the most of the Nightlords to bear in one system, then use the combined might of your legions and brothers to bring down Konrads bastard sons and haul their father before the gates of terra for judgement.
- [X] Suggest tactics and allies (Vulkan) Your brother has always been the most humane, that much is obvious to anyone whose met him, given the loyalty between us and no love lost over the Eighths tactics it would be an easy thing to convince the Dragon to face the Night haunter. Upon gathering the three legions suggest a form of bait to bring the most of the Nightlords to bear in one system, then use the combined might of your legions and brothers to bring down Konrads bastard sons and haul their father before the gates of terra for judgement.
- Location
- Planet Earth
[X] Yes
- [X] Suggest tactics and allies (Vulkan) Your brother has always been the most humane, that much is obvious to anyone whose met him, given the loyalty between us and no love lost over the Eighths tactics it would be an easy thing to convince the Dragon to face the Night haunter. Upon gathering the three legions suggest a form of bait to bring the most of the Nightlords to bear in one system, then use the combined might of your legions and brothers to bring down Konrads bastard sons and haul their father before the gates of terra for judgement.
-[X] Suggest tactics and allies: we're Angron. Don't overthink this. Approach Konrad's compound and wreck his shit. Corax will take care of stragglers, intelligence and opsec.
-[X] Approach Alpharius
-[X] Ensure the destruction of Nostramo is known before taking action, to ensure we aren't wrongly blamed for it.
-[X] Bait him into a confrontation. The one reliable place to find Curze is behind his current target.
-[X] Approach Sanguinius
-[X] Approach Khan
-[X] Approach Guilliman
-[X] Approach Vulkan
Just gonna quickly vote for this one because fuck trying to recruit someone better at sneaky shit and backstabbing than we are into something that'll give him plenty opportunity. Malcador can go fuck himself.
- [X] Suggest tactics and allies (Vulkan) Your brother has always been the most humane, that much is obvious to anyone whose met him, given the loyalty between us and no love lost over the Eighths tactics it would be an easy thing to convince the Dragon to face the Night haunter. Upon gathering the three legions suggest a form of bait to bring the most of the Nightlords to bear in one system, then use the combined might of your legions and brothers to bring down Konrads bastard sons and haul their father before the gates of terra for judgement.
-[X] Suggest tactics and allies: we're Angron. Don't overthink this. Approach Konrad's compound and wreck his shit. Corax will take care of stragglers, intelligence and opsec.
-[X] Approach Alpharius
-[X] Ensure the destruction of Nostramo is known before taking action, to ensure we aren't wrongly blamed for it.
-[X] Bait him into a confrontation. The one reliable place to find Curze is behind his current target.
-[X] Approach Sanguinius
-[X] Approach Khan
-[X] Approach Guilliman
-[X] Approach Vulkan
Just gonna quickly vote for this one because fuck trying to recruit someone better at sneaky shit and backstabbing than we are into something that'll give him plenty opportunity. Malcador can go fuck himself.
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- Location
- London, England
Malcador is an option, for the record.
He's not an option I ever considered, genuinely surprised here, but this is why I write quests so if people vote for it I will roll with it.
Anyway yes, vote is open now.
(Honestly if we end up with too many scattered write-ins for support I might just take those with good reasoning and use a mini-update to make it into a formal vote.)
He's not an option I ever considered, genuinely surprised here, but this is why I write quests so if people vote for it I will roll with it.
Anyway yes, vote is open now.
(Honestly if we end up with too many scattered write-ins for support I might just take those with good reasoning and use a mini-update to make it into a formal vote.)
Getting more time with Malcador will be fun and interesting, if nothing else. For us, anyway.
[X] Yes
-[X] Approach the Sigillite.
[X] Yes
-[X] Approach the Sigillite.
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