Except the Fog explicitly have quantum communication systems with literally instantaneous transmission times. With "telepathy" a full, complex, concept can be transmitted and understood instantly. I see no reason why this expedition should not have full broadband access to Earth's systems (free TV and e-mail for the crew + political updates, etc.).
Blue Steel 2199: Arpeggio of Blue Steel/Space Battleship Yamato 2199 Crossover
- Thread starter Kiyone4ever
- Start date
Except the Fog explicitly have quantum communication systems with literally instantaneous transmission times. With "telepathy" a full, complex, concept can be transmitted and understood instantly. I see no reason why this expedition should not have full broadband access to Earth's systems (free TV and e-mail for the crew + political updates, etc.).
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Fundamentally they'll have access to whatever OP wants them to, but—
What's your evidence for Concept Comm being instant? Keep in mind that most of the instances we've seen in the manga are at very short range, where lightspeed delay would be below 1ms. It'd be hard to notice the lag.
The liner notes (not sure what they're called) that were at the end of each chapter back when the manga started (also found in the special book).
I believe something was also mentioned when they were installing/using the quantum comm module on Hakugei.
- Location
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Virtually instant communications obviously exist in the 2199 universe. Brigadier Schulz was able to establish a 2-way link to Gamilas with no noticeable time lag at all.
Whether the concept comm operates on the same or similar enough principles is an open question
Whether the concept comm operates on the same or similar enough principles is an open question
- Location
- Vancouver, Washington
In consideration of my previous statement, I need to add something: Even if the EDF-Fog technology were able to provide any reliable degree of direct communication between SBY and Earth, Once outside the solar system, I would think such a system would be restricted to emergency use by the Captain or XO exclusively. Check the Battle of the Atlantic. One primary reason for the German defeat was the over use of Radio, which permitted them to be located and hunted down easier. It was a careless radio signal from Admiral Lutjens which permitted the British to locate the battleship Bismarck and send in the fatal Swordfish strike, and it was the fact that the large German wolf packs required too much radio communication to organize their attacks which eventually led to their downfall.
Yamato's crew does not know the Gamilans know exactly where they are going and don't need to attract every Gamilan ship in the universe to their coordinates. (Even though they apparently did anyway.) Could the Gamilans track the Concept Comm? Probably not, but when you are on the most important voyage in the history of mankind, you minimize as many of the risks as you can.
Yamato's crew does not know the Gamilans know exactly where they are going and don't need to attract every Gamilan ship in the universe to their coordinates. (Even though they apparently did anyway.) Could the Gamilans track the Concept Comm? Probably not, but when you are on the most important voyage in the history of mankind, you minimize as many of the risks as you can.
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Chapter 9
- Location
- Vancouver, Washington
Blue Steel 2199: Part 9
Several Months later...
Okita looked up as Admiral Hijikata entered his office. Okita gestured to an open seat and pulled out a bottle, pouring a cup for his guest and then one for himself.
"How did today's exercises go?" Hijikata asked his old friend.
"Getting better." Okita answered. "This morning I oversaw the simulation between Kodai and Chihaya. Fairly well matched. Chihaya is making long strides in appreciating the limits and possibilities of his equipment. Kodai is improving in his instincts. Tomorrow we will see how well they work together."
"What did you have in mind Jezu?"
"Two Isokazes versus a Mogami. "
"Yamanami will be op force I presume?" Hijikata said referring to Okita's Flag Captain.
Okita shook his head. "Me."
Hijikata chuckled. "Save me a seat then Jezu. This is a show I want to see."
His old friend nodded.
"By the way, I saw part of your simulation against Kongo this afternoon. Hijikata noted to Okita, who looked up with a small smile.
"I should think so. That scenario had your fingerprints all over it Ryu." The battle in question was a fleet action with Kongo commanding the defending fleet and Okita commanding the hostiles. It simulated the Battle of Second Mars, where Okita had managed to win Earth's only victory to date against the Gamilans. To reduce Okita's advantage in the scenario, Kongo's fleet was reinforced by an additional task force led by Kirishima and Haruna.
Yamato had sat in as an observer, making one of her rare appearances away from the building slip where Yamato was rapidly taking shape. The new ship was some seventy meters longer than the Supreme Flagship and had now proceeded far enough along in her construction that Hyuga had turned her attention to two new designs that would make an even greater use of Fog Technology than Yamato, being intended for a more defensive role, allowing easier maintenance of their systems.
"She almost pulled it off." Hijikata noted, regarding the simulation with Kongo. Okita agreed.
"If she had committed to the attack just a little sooner. Kongo is still reluctant to deviate from doctrine."
"But she is learning."
"Indeed."
***
Kongo sat in her assigned quarters sipping a cup of Darjeeling Tea as she ran the day's simulation again. After learning the origins of the day's exercise, she had accessed the EDF database on Operation K2. Supreme Flagship was correct after all. So much to learn...I hope that I am up to the task.
***
Mamoru Kodai entered the dining hall with an amused grin as he spotted where Gunzou Chihaya and the rest of Blue Steel were seated, enjoying their evening meal. Walking over, he plopped himself in an empty chair. Yukikaze followed behind him and found an empty seat near Iona
"Ah! Kodai!" Gunzou greeted him pleasantly as meantime, Sensor Operator Shizuka Houzumi got up.
"I'll be right back, just need to refill my glass." She announced. Iori Watanuki noted with amusement that Shizuka did not retake her chair when she returned a minute later, but took a new seat next to Kodai.
After discussing the day's simulation at length, and the detailed breakdown Admiral Okita had given both Kodai and Chihaya, Kodai took a deep breath.
"Better bring your 'A' game tomorrow. A little bird told me we can both expect to die in many horrible ways tomorrow."
"Oh?" Gunzou asked, his curiosity aroused.
"The Admiral; himself, is going to be blowing our collective butts off tomorrow." Kodai grinned.
"Okita san?" Gunzou asked.
Mamoru nodded.
"Ah!" Kyouhei grinned. " Our Captain! Still the King of Silver after all this time!"
"King of Silver?" Kodai asked the slightly embarrassed Chihaya.
"Ah yes!" Kyouhei grinned. "You see, once upon a time…"
Several Months later...
Okita looked up as Admiral Hijikata entered his office. Okita gestured to an open seat and pulled out a bottle, pouring a cup for his guest and then one for himself.
"How did today's exercises go?" Hijikata asked his old friend.
"Getting better." Okita answered. "This morning I oversaw the simulation between Kodai and Chihaya. Fairly well matched. Chihaya is making long strides in appreciating the limits and possibilities of his equipment. Kodai is improving in his instincts. Tomorrow we will see how well they work together."
"What did you have in mind Jezu?"
"Two Isokazes versus a Mogami. "
"Yamanami will be op force I presume?" Hijikata said referring to Okita's Flag Captain.
Okita shook his head. "Me."
Hijikata chuckled. "Save me a seat then Jezu. This is a show I want to see."
His old friend nodded.
"By the way, I saw part of your simulation against Kongo this afternoon. Hijikata noted to Okita, who looked up with a small smile.
"I should think so. That scenario had your fingerprints all over it Ryu." The battle in question was a fleet action with Kongo commanding the defending fleet and Okita commanding the hostiles. It simulated the Battle of Second Mars, where Okita had managed to win Earth's only victory to date against the Gamilans. To reduce Okita's advantage in the scenario, Kongo's fleet was reinforced by an additional task force led by Kirishima and Haruna.
Yamato had sat in as an observer, making one of her rare appearances away from the building slip where Yamato was rapidly taking shape. The new ship was some seventy meters longer than the Supreme Flagship and had now proceeded far enough along in her construction that Hyuga had turned her attention to two new designs that would make an even greater use of Fog Technology than Yamato, being intended for a more defensive role, allowing easier maintenance of their systems.
"She almost pulled it off." Hijikata noted, regarding the simulation with Kongo. Okita agreed.
"If she had committed to the attack just a little sooner. Kongo is still reluctant to deviate from doctrine."
"But she is learning."
"Indeed."
***
Kongo sat in her assigned quarters sipping a cup of Darjeeling Tea as she ran the day's simulation again. After learning the origins of the day's exercise, she had accessed the EDF database on Operation K2. Supreme Flagship was correct after all. So much to learn...I hope that I am up to the task.
***
Mamoru Kodai entered the dining hall with an amused grin as he spotted where Gunzou Chihaya and the rest of Blue Steel were seated, enjoying their evening meal. Walking over, he plopped himself in an empty chair. Yukikaze followed behind him and found an empty seat near Iona
"Ah! Kodai!" Gunzou greeted him pleasantly as meantime, Sensor Operator Shizuka Houzumi got up.
"I'll be right back, just need to refill my glass." She announced. Iori Watanuki noted with amusement that Shizuka did not retake her chair when she returned a minute later, but took a new seat next to Kodai.
After discussing the day's simulation at length, and the detailed breakdown Admiral Okita had given both Kodai and Chihaya, Kodai took a deep breath.
"Better bring your 'A' game tomorrow. A little bird told me we can both expect to die in many horrible ways tomorrow."
"Oh?" Gunzou asked, his curiosity aroused.
"The Admiral; himself, is going to be blowing our collective butts off tomorrow." Kodai grinned.
"Okita san?" Gunzou asked.
Mamoru nodded.
"Ah!" Kyouhei grinned. " Our Captain! Still the King of Silver after all this time!"
"King of Silver?" Kodai asked the slightly embarrassed Chihaya.
"Ah yes!" Kyouhei grinned. "You see, once upon a time…"
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I have a question since I do not know the Arpeggio story: What is nanomaterials and how is it made? The name and the comments in this and other tics make it sound like the tropish omnipurpose nano tech goo in most science fiction genre that uses it (Replicators of Stargate television series, Livewires comic limited series, the mimetic polyalloy technology of the Terminator franchise, the technology in Cannon God Exxaxion manga, etc.)
Given the lack of supply lines for the trip, if the technology is basically nano tech, maybe they can make some "vats" for processing raw materials into nanomaterials?
Given the lack of supply lines for the trip, if the technology is basically nano tech, maybe they can make some "vats" for processing raw materials into nanomaterials?
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The best explanation for nanomaterial right now is an extremely small artificial exotic matter. It can replicate the structure of atoms, which would put it at least the size of quarks or smaller. It has copied fully functioning human bodies down to the cellular level, and created complex pieces of technology.
Nanomaterial doesn't seem to have unlimited flexibility. It must be slaved to a Fleet of Fog ship's core to change form, and immediately breaks down into an indistinct silver sand when the core loses control of it. There's a little ambiguity as to whether it can maintain its shape if the core is not actively running it, but my personal guess is that nanomaterial is able to form a giant distributed processor that makes it semi self-sustaining. As long as the core that "owns" that nanomaterial is awake and aware, they don't need to devote resources to controlling it actively.
Nanomaterial is not self-replicating. The Fog have home ports where they manufacture it. So, no, Fog ships can't just regenerate from damage instantly. While they are able to self-repair in battle, they have limited spare mass to replace damaged components with.
We have no idea how nanomaterial is manufactured, so we don't know what if any raw material is required to produce it.
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- Location
- Vancouver, Washington
We do know that certain components of a Fog ship MUST be constructed with nanomaterials while others can be replaced by man made parts which can be of less exotic, naturally occurring elements. I'm sure Yamato will have equipment to extract those naturally occurring elements from asteroids or other planetary bodies and draw on them to build replacement parts as needed. Nanomaterials will have to be a finite supply secured deep in the ship's hull to repair those things which must be made of nanomaterials.
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- Location
- Vancouver, Washington
That is true. It even gives me an idea for later...
With all their advanced technology aren't they also painting a huge bullseye on earth?
The gamillans would probably take notice of the technologies deployed by earth and be interested in aquiring those.
The would probably also take the threat that the Yamato poses far more serious early on.
Something else I am wondering about is the maturity discrepancy that would probably now exist between the frozen mental models and those that were active all that time.
It would be nice to see how some of those mental models had grown over all those years.
The gamillans would probably take notice of the technologies deployed by earth and be interested in aquiring those.
The would probably also take the threat that the Yamato poses far more serious early on.
Something else I am wondering about is the maturity discrepancy that would probably now exist between the frozen mental models and those that were active all that time.
It would be nice to see how some of those mental models had grown over all those years.
GeshronTyler
Kleiner Giftzwerg
It would seem that the FOG had been mostly passive, and defensive, up till now, and focused much (if not most) of their efforts on civil defence. With the Iscandarians now having chosen to intervene, and the "Sleepers" (especially Hyuuga) having awakened, I forsee a shift in policy between the FOG and EDF towards a more unified effort towards forward defense, if the Shin Yamato can punch out the local system Gamilon patrols/gatidons. My understanding is, that the EDF has not actually been using much in the way of FOGtech, and that after the way the initial contact with the Gamilons turned out, that the FOG has not deployed any more MM with the EDF.
If that's the case, the Gamilons will be surprised by the effectiveness of FOGtech, and given Sol had a fairly low priority as a front for the invaders, shifting priority, resources, and more competent commanders to that ftont will take time. Meanwhile, the Shin Yamato will focus a good deal of attention on itself...
Or so I picture it to be.
If that's the case, the Gamilons will be surprised by the effectiveness of FOGtech, and given Sol had a fairly low priority as a front for the invaders, shifting priority, resources, and more competent commanders to that ftont will take time. Meanwhile, the Shin Yamato will focus a good deal of attention on itself...
Or so I picture it to be.
Sakuya's Butler
A refined Butler to a knife wielding Mistress.
- Location
- ↓, ↘, → + Punch
Heh. Keep it rated PG13.
- Location
- Vancouver, Washington
No problem, but it will allow me to take care of one reader request.
- Location
- Vancouver, Washington
That's pretty much so. Of course I make the assumption that the forces that Yamato defeated at Jupiter and Pluto do not represent all the Gamilan forces stationed in system, let alone those nearby.
I have a theory germinating in my head. The reason Kongou is running simulations against human opponents is that she's being prepped for a command role in Earth's defense while the Shin Yamato is gone. That means she's going to be on Earth the whole time, which in turn means that she's going to have ample opportunity to get into squabbles with General Serizawa. The same man who started the whole war and maneuvered himself to avoid the political consequences (for now).
Eventually, his petty jackassery will become too much for her to take, and Kongou is going to outright murder him in a rage after he pulls his racist Japanese-centric obstructionist bullshit one time too many.
Eventually, his petty jackassery will become too much for her to take, and Kongou is going to outright murder him in a rage after he pulls his racist Japanese-centric obstructionist bullshit one time too many.
TheBleachDoctor
Secretly a Cat
- Location
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
Kongou crushing Serizawa sounds so wonderful.
Sakuya's Butler
A refined Butler to a knife wielding Mistress.
- Location
- ↓, ↘, → + Punch
The ironic hilarity that she is named after a (and effectively IS a) Japanese warship, makes that even more enjoyable.
True, but the matter still remains that Pluto was the Gamilias' main base in the Sol system. So any other remaining assets are either in the cateogory of 'withdrawal to the next closest base or die-on-the-vine', or are at least tertiary threats at best that could easily be handled by whatever defensive units Hyuuga cooks up.
No matter what, the base being removed from the picture is going to buy Earth a -lot- of time it normally wouldn't have gotten. In canon, the base being taken out actually DID give Earth a few more months of breathing room, which was needed while the Cosmo Removal/Reverser system was setup. With this Fog AU, those few months could very likely see Earth quickly re-take not only the Moon, but Mars as well, instead of huddling back like in canon.
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TheBleachDoctor
Secretly a Cat
- Location
- The Plane of Infinite Kittens
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- She/Her
Hey, and Mars isn't as badly off as Earth. In fact, it's better off. Earth has been bombed into a poisonous dustball, while remains of settlements are still visible on Mars, and it even still has its oceans!
If the final design is open for suggestions, here are some ideas:
If SB Yamato has a fixed amount of nanomaterials, then this will greatly affect the final design. Any part that is expected to either be damaged in a fight or be expended probably will have to be made of non-nanomaterials (basically outer armor, most of the structural elements, missiles and other expendable ammo, etc.). They probably should include the ability to do full repairs and replacement of those components and convert raw materials to finished products. They might also include the ability to salvage enemy ships and equipment. A large storage area filled with nanomaterial could be included and set up so that as nanomaterial is used up then the freed up storage space can be used to store excess material for the repair/replacement of the non-nanomaterial parts of the ship.
The surface of the ship (and possibly include in the geometry of the outer surface) might include camouflaged, energy/corrosion-resistant paint. This could allow a certain amount of stealth when the ship is not throwing out a huge thermal bloom from its weapons and propulsion. While there is likely to be sensors out there that makes it useless, it still might help to make it hard to detect by most of the electromagnetic spectrum including by visual sensors. Along that line of thought, maybe there could be consideration of making personal body armor, weapons, and small vehicles with some attempt to allow for stealthy operations (to allow for the possibility to infiltrate bases, seize information and material, and perform sabotage). While a very long shot, if they can acquire information of things like how to intercept enemy communications it could be very useful.
Maybe they get more robots that can do repairs under combat conditions?
Maybe have the maneuvering and propulsion (and weapons) be designed so that when the engine is at full power, the ship can pull maneuvers and evasive actions that makes it almost impossible to get a target lock on it. On a more strategic level this allows the possibility to run away from enemies or make any enemy organized fleet arrangements useless. While destroying enemy forces is important (at least the logistics and command structures in the solar system), the main priority is to get to Iscandar and pick up the device and return.
GeshronTyler
Kleiner Giftzwerg
In the Arpeggio manga, nano-material can be used to simulate living human bodies, to the point of having blood and organs, without needing any of the actual elements that normally compose the human body.
In regards to some of the restrictions of nano-materials that the MM/Cores face, is that special equipment is often not replicable by nano-materials, and have to be replaced/delivered/authorized by the support ships. This probably holds true for the Wave Motion Core.
What I think would be an interesting design concept, is if the human habitable/accessible parts of the ship are pretty much self contained modules placed with the framework of the ship. Whenever Fog Ships cut lose, they tend to open themselves up and expose the exotic equipment that actually comprises their weapons and sensors, rather than simulate the function of the "mundane" weapons and sensors of the ships they emulate. As an example, if the author and others are familiar with the anime "Heroic Age", the "protagonist" human ship had the human habitation modules and command nodes shift internally into more protected/effective configurations. So, instead of Shin Yamato being built with all the companionways, compartments, bulkheads and frames of "mundane" human construction, the ship is configured mostly like a Fog ship (i.e. packed full of machinery), along with modular compartments/holds for the purposes of the human crew and their requirements.
In regards to some of the restrictions of nano-materials that the MM/Cores face, is that special equipment is often not replicable by nano-materials, and have to be replaced/delivered/authorized by the support ships. This probably holds true for the Wave Motion Core.
What I think would be an interesting design concept, is if the human habitable/accessible parts of the ship are pretty much self contained modules placed with the framework of the ship. Whenever Fog Ships cut lose, they tend to open themselves up and expose the exotic equipment that actually comprises their weapons and sensors, rather than simulate the function of the "mundane" weapons and sensors of the ships they emulate. As an example, if the author and others are familiar with the anime "Heroic Age", the "protagonist" human ship had the human habitation modules and command nodes shift internally into more protected/effective configurations. So, instead of Shin Yamato being built with all the companionways, compartments, bulkheads and frames of "mundane" human construction, the ship is configured mostly like a Fog ship (i.e. packed full of machinery), along with modular compartments/holds for the purposes of the human crew and their requirements.
No not murder him. That is to good for him. Break him mentally by showing him just how badly he fuck up and show him that Japan is a part of a whole while she screw up all of his policating by showing the whole fucking solar system by that he is the one the cause it by releasing ALL the files that on his computer. Hopefully after he does something that he wants hidden, was how I read Kongo in both the anima and manga is that she really gives no fucks about that type of thing.