"I could advance my forces. Or try to order the other generals too. They're falling back, if we go forward we could turn it into a rout… but what if they're feigning. And even if they're not, they could rally, and I'd be moving the troops farther away from the cannons, which means--"
If the enemy manages to rally their troops, it's back to fighting a slogfest. And this time our troops wouldn't have the terrain advantage and firing the cannons would be a bit harder since our troops being further away increases the chance of accidental friendly fire. And then there's the possibility of if being a trap to take out the cannons. We could keep the Hanin behind to guard them, but that would make Niu's advance weaker, which kind of defeats the entire point of pushing forward, and we might have fewer Hanin than you think.
The Army of the Capital: Combining the Imperial Army, the Armies of Xissand, the men of Hari-Bueli, who raced there even ahead of Yeadalt, closer to the capital, the forces of Hirand, and a number of troops from quite a ways farther, it is a powerful, united weapon, having within it all manner of forces, all kinds of units. It is strong, and it is spread out some, for their numbers long ran beyond what would fit in the capital, and so all around the countryside they'll have to gather.. Special Units: Wind Dancer Rassit (1k), Hanin (3k), Kueli's Scouts and Skirmishers, The Cannons of War (Dozens and dozens), Others. Total Troops: 175k, yes, a lot of troops. Enough that moving all of them out on the roads would be dangerous indeed.
The Army of the Capital had 3k Hanin total and a large number are still with the reserves. So the right flank has perhaps 1-1,5k Hanin max. A sudden surprise attack by thousands of enemy cavalrymen (assuming that is the Prince's plan of course) would still be pretty hard for them to deal with. And again, if we leave more troops behind to support the Hanin, we weaken our attack.
[X] Stay here. Bombard the enemy, hold the line, make sure they're running away with their tails between their legs. See to the wounded as best you can, and stand there, proud and unharmed, your own dead going off to decent burials, as the enemy has to *watch* this failure.
The Hanin wield long spears and heavy crossbows. They seem much better suited to holding a position than to charging foreward. And if Jinhai's troops rally and a chaotic melee erupts, our cannons will have trouble shooting at the enemy without risking hitting their allies.
-Niu seems like a cautious man, which, even if it also means he wont deal as much damage as a more hot blooded fellow would, should decrease the chance of him falling into any trap in a way that really hurts us.
Once he commits to a push it doesn't matter how cautious he is, it's like trying to brake an 18 wheeler to reverse a pushing army without routing it by accident.
Okay, I guess having recently read a couple dozen chapters of the manga "Kingdom" is a bit of a handicap when it comes to thinking about more realistic battles.
[X] Stay here. Bombard the enemy, hold the line, make sure they're running away with their tails between their legs. See to the wounded as best you can, and stand there, proud and unharmed, your own dead going off to decent burials, as the enemy has to *watch* this failure.
My strategy would have totally been rad if Niu was some handsome swole superhuman who controls his troops as if they were his own limbs though!
[X] Attack. The enemy is disorganized. If you push on hard enough, they can really be hurt here and now. This is far from the end, but at least do some violence to them, but be wary of being led into a chase.
Okay, I guess having recently read a couple dozen chapters of the manga "Kingdom" is a bit of a handicap when it comes to thinking about more realistic battles.
[X] Stay here. Bombard the enemy, hold the line, make sure they're running away with their tails between their legs. See to the wounded as best you can, and stand there, proud and unharmed, your own dead going off to decent burials, as the enemy has to *watch* this failure.
My strategy would have totally been rad if Niu was some handsome swole superhuman who controls his troops as if they were his own limbs though!
The Army of the Capital had 3k Hanin total and a large number are still with the reserves. So the right flank has perhaps 1-1,5k Hanin max. A sudden surprise attack by thousands of enemy cavalrymen (assuming that is the Prince's plan of course) would still be pretty hard for them to deal with. And again, if we leave more troops behind to support the Hanin, we weaken our attack.
Yeah, because attacking an elite spearmen formation, or indeed attacking any halfway organised spear formation, with light cavalry is a smart idea. You need heavy, well trained and well armoured cavalry for such a manoeuvre which is something neither side here possess. And the sheer size of the armies deployed here makes the traditional flanking and rear attack a tad more difficult - especially since or reserves could easily act in such a case.
Yeah, because attacking an elite spearmen formation, or indeed attacking any halfway organised spear formation, with light cavalry is a smart idea. You need heavy, well trained and well armoured cavalry for such a manoeuvre which is something neither side here possess. And the sheer size of the armies deployed here makes the traditional flanking and rear attack a tad more difficult - especially since or reserves could easily act in such a case.
[X] Stay here. Bombard the enemy, hold the line, make sure they're running away with their tails between their legs. See to the wounded as best you can, and stand there, proud and unharmed, your own dead going off to decent burials, as the enemy has to *watch* this failure.
I would be very surprised if the troops falling back rally in range of our cannon even if we don't pursue. There is also the fact that if we win here, we'd rather they stay as organised groups that can surrender to be demobilized back to productive civilians or used against the Sea Raiders rather than be dead or scattered into banditry.
If the our troops stay where they are, they can dig in, recover and be ready to come down from the heights against forces that it's urgent that we hit*. All the while the guns keep killing.
*E.g. we could send more troops from the center left knowing that if we draw their center into an attack we can hit it in the flank.
Adhoc vote count started by The Laurent on Jul 1, 2017 at 7:18 PM, finished with 24 posts and 11 votes.
[x] Stay here. Bombard the enemy, hold the line, make sure they're running away with their tails between their legs. See to the wounded as best you can, and stand there, proud and unharmed, your own dead going off to decent burials, as the enemy has to *watch* this failure.
[X] Attack. The enemy is disorganized. If you push on hard enough, they can really be hurt here and now. This is far from the end, but at least do some violence to them, but be wary of being led into a chase.
If this was victory, than what was defeat like? The enemy kept on retreating, harassed to the end, the cannons continuing to fire all the while, and the men gathered their strength. Even though far fewer Imperial men had died, that meant far less than Jaw-Lung had expected. Going among their numbers, silently paying attention to them and the cannons as if they were the same thing, pieces of equipment to be judged, there was the same feeling.
Exhaustion. Men had been fighting for dozens and dozens of minutes, calling on their spirits to help them keep going, and now they were collapsing, or leaning on their spears. Some of them threw themselves to the ground after exchanging out with a back row that was less exhausted.
There were exceptions, of course. The proud Hanin, both spearmen and crossbowmen, all stood, seemingly barely used. They'd taken a few losses, but against the enemy's push, Jaw-Lung began to realize, they hadn't been pressed hard enough. Or rather, they'd seemed to be everywhere. The enemy had thrown strength against strength, and they'd almost won.
Without the cannons he thought were his, this wouldn't even be a question. This wouldn't be a fight at all.
But what a fight it was. Corpses lay everywhere, defiled, broken men, all of them dressed in Csiritan armor, and yet some were enemies and some were allies. Some were traitors, while some fought for all that was good and right. But it was harder than it should be to tell them apart, at least at first.
Both sides wore the same armor, and once a banner had been trampled into the muck by fleeing enemies, what was there to tell a man apart? Jaw-Lung wanted to talk to someone about it. Wanted to say some piece of poetry that would make sense of it, but he was a Mage, not a poet, and so he just shook his head and paced, nervous and afraid.
Meanwhile, in the chaos on the left side, death stalked, and at its head…
********
Jun coughed, well aware that he might have died there. An arrow had entered one of his guards, who was laying on the ground. The man had laughed at any joke, had been the sort of fellow who couldn't help but be satisfied with life. He'd died like a dog, the arrow going straight through his throat, and then the blasts had hit.
Men torn in two screamed for a moment, their spirits holding them to life even after it became a grotesque and doomed mockery. Teach your spirits poorly enough, and they'd think they could save you, when all they did was make your last moments a pointless agony. It was experience Jun didn't brag about, having seen it happen on both sides. Chop a man in half, and he was supposed to die, not scream for a minute longer as glowing white spirits tried to save their master.
Jun drew his sword, moving this way and that. "Get together, men! Spears up, spears up! They're coming on again!"
But of course, the formation had been broken. There was fighting going on in every direction, a chaotic melee aided by the dust and mist that had been purposefully thrown up by Jinhai's Mages.
The ground was on fire at places when he appeared.
He, for Jun knew of him.
Lord Isato, said to even have some Sea-Raider blood in him, distantly, though perhaps it was merely a dark rumor. Lord Isato, a warrior without peer, and a rival who constantly undermined Jun's boasts.
Dark haired, with eyes that blazed with fury, wearing a red suit of armor, the overlapping layers gleaming as if soaked in blood. And around him were five barbarians, each of them in heavy armor, but with the paper seals on their faces.
"Jun! General Jun. We meet again. I come here not to praise you, but to slay you, my old enemy."
Isato drew his sword, holding it in two hands as he and the barbarians, armed with their leg-breaker clubs and swords in the cases of others, advanced, slowly, on Jun and what remained of his guard.
Two men, two men out of six.
Fuck this for a game of soldiers.
Jun drew his own sword, settling into a ready stance. He breathed in, and then breathed out a dozen names. The names of the spirits and the names of the Gods. He was a warrior, as much as a soldier, and Isato had to die. If he died now, the enemy would know it, Jun had his ways. And they'd know that one of their greatest warriors and general was dead.
Jun's legs itched, but he would not run. But that didn't mean he'd fight with honor, no. A man like Isato had no honor at all. A man like Isato was best killed. One of Jinhai's friends, one of Jinhai's closest allies.
Jun leapt, and battle was joined.
What does Jun do?
[] Go for the scrolls. Slice them, and perhaps the odds will shift.
[] Draw Isato forward, as if it were a one-on-one, but have one of the guards kill him.
[] A simple trick for a simple fighter. This is a dusty, dirty place, and a spirit of wind could blow the dust into Isato's eyes at the right moment.
[] Write-in.
Always Attack!: +2 to Martial and Personal Combat when attacking.
Bragging Rights: The defeat of bandits has led to him having a very good reputation… and the knowledge of how to improve it. +1 to Diplomacy when in a situation where someone cares about that time you beat all those bandits.
Connected: +3 to Learning when remembering families, noble politics, etc.
Bandit-Killer: +5 to Intrigue when using a dirty trick in a fight.
Sword of the Mourning Star: An ancient sword, said to call to spirits more strongly, it is one of Jun's prized possessions. +2 to combat Magic.
Well, of the default options his traits clearly favour Pocket Sand! +5 is nothing to sneeze at.
[X] A simple trick for a simple fighter. This is a dusty, dirty place, and a spirit of wind could blow the dust into Isato's eyes at the right moment.
EDIT: And even if we get the scrolls, it's still 6 vs 3. We need to kill Isato before this turns into a prolonged fight.
Well, of the default options his traits clearly favour Pocket Sand! +5 is nothing to sneeze at.
[X] A simple trick for a simple fighter. This is a dusty, dirty place, and a spirit of wind could blow the dust into Isato's eyes at the right moment.
EDIT: And even if we get the scrolls, it's still 6 vs 3. We need to kill Isato before this turns into a prolonged fight.
[X] Go for the scrolls. Slice them, and perhaps the odds will shift.
-[x] In a practised move, one of Jun's bodyguards hurls his spear at Isato as Jun switches targets.
It's an experiment we need to do anyway and it has the biggest payoff if it works - every Sea Raider we free is an ongoing distraction and I don't think we'd finish this fight in a single pass even if the dust in the eyes works. I don't think dust would work because Isato has chosen to raise dust himself so he must have made preparations to keep stuff out of his eyes.
now, if one of Jun's bodyguards were to throw a weapon at Isato just as Jun steps off line to go for a scroll, that might get a cheap shot in.
I'm not too sure what's the best thing to do. If we focus on Isato, then given we only have 2 guards and there are 6 sea raiders, then even in the event we kill Isato it's likely to just end up with Jun himself dying to them. Is a mutual kill good for us, or bad? It could be good if Jun's correct and he has a way to broadcast Isato's death out wide, while his own would be more obscured.
[X] Go for the scrolls. Slice them, and perhaps the odds will shift.
I'll just go for this for now, although it could be a mistake if the time needed to free just one raider is too great. Or the raider after being freed isn't in a condition to fight. If it works it should even up the score, via both reducing the enemies soldiers and giving us a temporary ally. It should also be fine with Jun's stats given it seems predominantly about personal combat, and actually slicing off the scrolls.
