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Attempting to Fulfil The Plan: ISOT Edition

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always_confused said:
The funny thing is, there's so many factions so much more powerful than a clan - or even a collection of clans - that adding the PRM into the mix wouldn't actually change the game too much. The world itself is another thing (admittedly I know very little of the franchise lore), but in the relatively short timeframe of KoDP itself? It'd be just one more faction to trade with and avoid pissing off.
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Well, the Stonemakers/PRM would change one thing in that they will pay a stupid amount of Goods for Cows and Horses (which might mean that the Crafter Economy is no longer as game-breaking) and steel weapons will increase casualties during raids (and might make raids more frequent because people want cows to trade for steel), but otherwise yeah. That was part of the appeal actually, since it let us keep everything from the Orlanthi POV as it would be in-game.
 
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[X] Plan Guns and Wire
glad people arent sleeping on the wire production.

on a side note, how good is our education system in relation with our neighbours? given we are a second generation state, are first generation states lightyears ahead of us, or did they not invest in education as much as we have? im sure we are still pretty behind as our education system is still not in full swing and those types of things take a long time. (im extremely new to the lore so any explanation is welcome)
 
1st Wave states at least try to do general education of their American section of the population, which generally makes up a majority. But only the CKE would try educating Downtimers. And the 1st wave has been ravaged by war.

Among 2nd Wave States I think we're up there at the top, alongside Rome for just trying for universal education. Crete has an elites only education IIRC. Not sure about Naxos, but they'd probably try for universal education? But they have far less resources and have taken repeated hits.
 
Chimeraguard said:
1st Wave states at least try to do general education of their American section of the population, which generally makes up a majority. But only the CKE would try educating Downtimers. And the 1st wave has been ravaged by war.

Among 2nd Wave States I think we're up there at the top, alongside Rome for just trying for universal education. Crete has an elites only education IIRC. Not sure about Naxos, but they'd probably try for universal education? But they have far less resources and have taken repeated hits.
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I wouldn't say Crete is Elites only education, that would be incredibly wasteful, but elites are heavily favored once you get beyond a basic secondary education
 
TurnSeasonNew Primary SlotsTotal Primary SlotsRequired Secondary SlotsNew Secondary SlotsTotal Secondary Slots
11-100
21-200
31-300
42-120002000
52-202000
62-340006000
73-106000
83-206000
93-306000
104-1060000
114-260001200000
124-330001500020002000
135-1015000030005000
145-21000025000005000
155-3900034000005000
166-10340002000500010000
176-234000200010000
186-334000600010000
197-134000600010000
207-234000600010000
217-334000600010000
228-134000600010000
238-2340001200010000
248-3340001500010000
259-1340001500010000
269-2340002500010000
279-3340003400010000

I went back through the quest and made a table of our estimated educational capacities to get a sense of how we should be timing our secondary school builds.

Note that the pre-Turn 11 primary school numbers are basically estimates since we didn't get information on how many school slots a given stage produced, or how many slots we had total, until then.
 
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HeWhoAdds said:
I went back through the quest and made a table of our estimated educational capacities to get a sense of how we should be timing our secondary school builds.
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would you mid expanding it to include tertiary education, demand?

also, how much of our youth are we putting into formal schooling (ballpark)?, IIRC we are doing pretty well in our urban settings, but still have a ways to go on the countryside and the conquered territory. corollary to that, how is our rural/urban split in terms of population?
 
Nevis said:
So we have 7ish turns to more than triple our secondary schools capacity? No pressure.
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i mean, given how undereducated our adult population is, if we were to just create secondary schools, we would probably be able to saturate it as is with our adults rather than the kids currently working through the system. so im unsure if the problem is more serious than the table shows. what im more worried about is that a lot of our institutional knowledge is sitting inside the living brains of our uptimers, if we dont get tertiary education up and running, we run a real risk of losing out on the modern knowledge of entire discipline because our people will just simply die out before they are able to impart that knowledge. i get that to a a certain extent, we can ask them to write that stuff down, but as any university student will tell you, its 10x easier to learn math from a professor rather than listlessly reading written proofs.
 
Nevis said:
So we have 7ish turns to more than triple our secondary schools capacity? No pressure.
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AND we're adding 21k more primary school slots in this plan.

iceman66 said:
would you mid expanding it to include tertiary education, demand?
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We're currently putting a couple hundred people through a rudimentary tertiary education and I don't think we'll have the option of doing more than that until our secondary education students are approaching graduation, so expect tertiary education demand and production to start up around Turn 24 when the first round of secondary education graduates hit the economy.

iceman66 said:
also, how much of our youth are we putting into formal schooling (ballpark)?, IIRC we are doing pretty well in our urban settings, but still have a ways to go on the countryside and the conquered territory. corollary to that, how is our rural/urban split in terms of population?
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I think we're providing our urban youth with access to a full primary and secondary education at this point, and when we finish Stage 4 Liberated Territories Primary Schools a supermajority of our rural children will have access to primary education, and we'll have closed the education gap between the new and old PRM territories. We need to do Stage 5 Primary Schools in the Peloponnese and the Liberated Territories to get universal primary education.

iceman66 said:
i mean, given how undereducated our adult population is, if we were to just create secondary schools, we would probably be able to saturate it as is with our adults rather than the kids currently working through the system.
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Unfortunately the pool of adults who can benefit from the secondary educaton system is pretty small because you need to be literate and numerate enough to follow the curriculum, and most of our adults haven't had the benefit of any primary school education at all. Our adult education system is pretty hard pressed to get most of our adult population literate enough to sign their names.

iceman66 said:
what im more worried about is that a lot of our institutional knowledge is sitting inside the living brains of our uptimers, if we dont get tertiary education up and running, we run a real risk of losing out on the modern knowledge of entire discipline because our people will just simply die out before they are able to impart that knowledge. i get that to a a certain extent, we can ask them to write that stuff down, but as any university student will tell you, its 10x easier to learn math from a professor rather than listlessly reading written proofs.
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We're somewhat alleviating that problem with our first stage of Advanced Education, but we need secondary-educated students in sufficient numbers before university-level education becomes viable.
 
Editted my table as it reflected a 3-year primary school cycle rather than 4, so we're a bit more ahead on secondary schooling than I thought
 
Vote called for [X] Plan Guns and Wire

Port Facilities (Stage 4) 1d 90+334=424/350 complete stage 5 74/400
Telegraph Network (Stage 4) 2d 23+97+93=213/200 complete quality dice 63 stage 5 13/250
Acheolus River Dredging 2d 77+48+0=125/100 complete
Paved Road Construction (Stage 2) 3d 42+92+51+0=185/125 complete stage 3 60/175
Thríambos Ironworks (Stage 4) 1d 60+501=561/525 complete quality dice 89 stage 5 36/650
Prometheus Heavy Machinery Plant (Stage 3) 2d 5+66+219=290/250 complete quality dice 67 stage 4 40/325
Attica Coal Mines (Stage 2) 2d 61+14+38=113/150
Lefkandi Ironworks (Stage 1) 2d 13+23+0=36/80
Semicoke Plants (Stage 2) 2d 36+54+0=100/200
Textile Industry (Stage 4) 3d 24+59+12+205=300/250 complete stage 5 50/325
Wire Product Production 2d 80+1+0=81/100 (nat 1)
Low-Pressure Hydrogenation Reactors 1d 56+5+7=68/60 complete quality dice 90
Polymer Production (Stage 2) 1d 91+5+92=188/150 complete quality dice 27 stage 3 38/200
Zakinthos Oil Extraction 1d 80+5=85/65 complete quality dice 18
Pesticide Production (Stage 1) 2d 38+76+10=124/100 complete quality dice 81 stage 2 24/150
Agricultural Mechanization (Stage 3) 3d 65+96+1+30+161=353/300 complete nat 1 stage 4 53/375
Formalize Mutual Aid Teams 2d 9+95+10=114/100 complete quality dice 52
Liberated Territories Primary Schools (Stage 4) 5d 97+81+28+37+98+39=380/600
Adult Literacy Campaigns (Stage 5) 3d 78+31+32+89=230/425
Liberated Territories Agricultural Education (Stage 2) 1d 43+164=207/175 complete stage 3 32/250
City Reconstruction and Modernization (Stage 2) 3d 38+29+36+130=233/250
Cannon Production (Stage 6) 2d 71+16+0=87/200
Bolt Action Rifle Production (Stage 3) 3d 70+67+76+28=241/150 complete quality dice 60 stage 4 91/200
Submachine Gun Production (Stage 3) 3d 47+18+47+100=212/150 complete quality dice 39 stage 4 62/200
Land Fortifications (Stage 2) 2d 39+25+28=92+10=100/100 omake complete quality dice 66 stage 3 0/135
Universal Military Training (Stage 2) 3d 4+84+42+9=139/100 complete quality dice 16+15 omake=31 stage 3 39/150
Recruit Downtimers to Ministry, 3d 73+3+46=122
Evaluate Replacements (Light Industry) 1d 23+15 omake=38

Scheduled vote count started by garphield on Nov 9, 2023 at 10:52 AM, finished with 23 posts and 14 votes.
  • [X] Plan Guns and Wire
    -[X] Port Facilities (Stage 4), 1 die (10 Resources)
    -[X] Telegraph Network (Stage 4), 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Acheolus River Dredging, 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Paved Road Construction (Stage 2), 3 dice (15 Resources)
    -[X] Thríambos Ironworks (Stage 4), 1 die (15 Resources)
    -[X] Prometheus Heavy Machinery Plant (Stage 3), 2 dice (40 Resources)
    -[X] Attica Coal Mines (Stage 2), 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Lefkandi Ironworks (Stage 1), 2 dice (40 Resources)
    -[X] Semicoke Plants (Stage 2), 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Textile Industry (Stage 4), 3 dice (30 Resources)
    -[X] Wire Product Production, 2 dice (30 Resources)
    -[X] Low-Pressure Hydrogenation Reactors, 1 die (20 Resources)
    -[X] Polymer Production (Stage 2), 1 die (20 Resources)
    -[X] Zakinthos Oil Extraction, 1 die (10 Resources)
    -[X] Pesticide Production (Stage 1), 2 dice (30 Resources)
    -[X] Agricultural Mechanization (Stage 3), 3 dice (30 Resources)
    -[X] Formalize Mutual Aid Teams, 2 dice (20 Resources)
    -[X] Liberated Territories Primary Schools (Stage 4), 5 dice (25 Resources) 2 lib
    -[X] Adult Literacy Campaigns (Stage 5), 3 dice (15 Resources)
    -[X] Liberated Territories Agricultural Education (Stage 2), 1 die (5 Resources)
    -[X] City Reconstruction and Modernization (Stage 2), 3 dice (30 Resources)
    -[X] Cannon Production (Stage 6), 2 dice (40 Resources)
    -[X] Bolt Action Rifle Production (Stage 3), 3 dice (75 Resources)
    -[X] Submachine Gun Production (Stage 2), 3 dice (60 Resources)
    -[X] Land Fortifications (Stage 2), 2 dice (20 Resources) 2 lib
    -[X] Universal Military Training (Stage 2), 3 dice (30 Resources)
    -[X] Recruit Downtimers To Ministry, 3 dice (15 Resources)
    -[X] Evaluate Replacements (Light Industry), 1 die
Click to expand...
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Plan Total: 742
90 90 23 23 97 97 77 77 48 48 42 42 92 92 51 51 60 60 35 35 66 66 61 61
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Plan Total: 463
14 14 13 13 23 23 36 36 54 54 24 24 59 59 12 12 80 80 1 1 56 56 91 91
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Plan Total: 703
80 80 38 38 76 76 65 65 96 96 1 1 9 9 95 95 97 97 81 81 28 28 37 37
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Plan Total: 609
98 98 78 78 31 31 32 32 43 43 38 38 29 29 36 36 71 71 16 16 70 70 67 67
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Plan Total: 504
76 76 47 47 18 18 47 47 39 39 25 25 4 4 84 84 42 42 73 73 3 3 46 46
garphield threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: Plan Total: 23
23 23
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Secret Total: 630
66 66 54 54 91 91 29 29 95 95 22 22 3 3 55 55 56 56 50 50 80 80 29 29
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Secret Total: 654
10 10 94 94 56 56 53 53 75 75 14 14 75 75 55 55 27 27 30 30 77 77 88 88
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Secret Total: 413
79 79 33 33 5 5 50 50 24 24 15 15 9 9 38 38 52 52 21 21 71 71 16 16
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: Secret Total: 763
98 98 37 37 76 76 95 95 49 49 70 70 27 27 89 89 26 26 85 85 51 51 60 60
garphield threw 9 100-faced dice. Reason: Secret Total: 451
82 82 55 55 31 31 3 3 33 33 98 98 61 61 25 25 63 63
garphield threw 12 100-faced dice. Reason: quality dice Total: 668
63 63 89 89 67 67 90 90 27 27 18 18 81 81 52 52 60 60 39 39 16 16 66 66
 
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Infrastructure, 8 dice

Port Facilities (Stage 4), 1 die: 334 + 90 = 424/350
Telegraph Network (Stage 4), 2 dice: 93 + 23 + 97 = 217/200
Acheolus River Dredging, 2 dice: 77 + 48 = 125/100
Paved Road Construction (Stage 2), 3 dice: 42 + 92 + 51 = 185/125

Heavy Industry, 8 +1 free dice

Thríambos Ironworks (Stage 4), 1 die: 501 + 60 = 561/525
Prometheus Heavy Machinery Plant (Stage 3), 2 dice: 219 + 35 + 66 = 320/250
Attica Coal Mines (Stage 2), 2 dice: 38 + 61 + 14 = 113/150
Lefkandi Ironworks (Stage 1), 2 dice: 13 + 23 = 36/80
Semicoke Plants (Stage 2), 2 dice: 36 + 54 = 90/200

Light Industry, 5 dice

Textile Industry (Stage 4), 3 dice: 205 + 24 + 59 + 12 = 300/250
Wire Product Production, 2 dice: 80 + 1 = 81/100

Chemical Industry, 5 dice

Low-Pressure Hydrogenation Reactors, 1 die: 7 + 56 = 63/60
Polymer Production (Stage 2), 1 die: 92 + 91 = 183/150
Zakinthos Oil Extraction, 1 die: 80 = 80/65
Pesticide Production (Stage 1), 2 dice: 38 + 76 = 114/100

Agriculture, 5 dice

Agricultural Mechanization (Stage 3), 3 dice: 161 + 65 + 96 + 1 = 322/300
Formalize Mutual Aid Teams, 2 dice: 9 + 95 = 104/100

Services, 6 +2 lib dice

Liberated Territories Primary Schools (Stage 4), 5 dice: 39 + 97 + 81 + 28 + 37 + 98 = 380/600
Adult Literacy Campaigns (Stage 5), 3 dice: 89 + 78 + 31 + 32 = 230/450

Liberated Territories, 8 - 4 assigned elsewhere dice

Liberated Territories Agricultural Education (Stage 2), 1 die: 164 + 43 = 207/175
City Reconstruction and Modernization (Stage 2), 3 dice: 130 + 38 + 29 + 36 = 233/250

Military, 9 +2 lib +2 free dice

Cannon Production (Stage 6), 2 dice: 71 + 16 = 87/200
Bolt Action Rifle Production (Stage 3), 3 dice: 28 + 70 + 67 + 76 = 241/150
Submachine Gun Production (Stage 2), 3 dice: 100 + 47 + 18 + 47 = 212/150
Land Fortifications (Stage 2), 2 dice: 28 + 39 + 25 = 92/100
Universal Military Training (Stage 2), 3 dice: 29 + 4 + 84 + 42 = 159/150

Bureaucracy, 4 dice

Recruit Downtimers To Ministry, 3 dice: 73 + 3 + 46 = 122
Evaluate Replacements (Light Industry): 23
 
Didn't have a chance to bring this up during this turn, but can we do Peloponnese City Modernization next turn? The last results post mentioned we had substantial housing shortages partially due to the influx of refugees.
 
Yeah, there was a debate over Roads or City Modernization first and it was decided Roads first would be more beneficial, but it was also agreed on we'd do the other next turn.
 
Ooof, that Nat 1 on Wires hurts, and the City Modernization of the Liberated Territories getting completely subpar rolls also hurts.

But overall I would say this turn went pretty well. All of our weapons manufacturing is now appropriate to our current needs, Conscription got to the next stage to start building that force for the upcoming Air Force conflict, HeWhoAdds is living up to his name, all of the heavy industry projects that needed to be complete this turn got there, our ports are completedish and the Telegraph system is fully online with a healthy capacity.
 
Good turn good turn! Aside from the nat ones my only real quibble is lib territory city reconstruction going slow, feels like we've been neglecting them a bit. Hopefully with thriambos done we can now pivot to lefkandi and start developing Aetolia.

The nat one in wire will probably be annoying but fairly minor. Agriculture mechanization I'm more worried about, mostly due to me not having a decent idea how much peasant unrest there really is.
Also were a bit over halfway done with the gun production goals. I expect the shell plant to unlock after we finish stage six of cannons and formalized officer training to hit after a certain level of universal training, but that's just me speculating.
 
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