Attempting to Fulfil The Plan: ISOT Edition

[Blackstar]

I'm envisioning us using the fleet of smaller merchant shipping we have been steadily and explicitly building in part for this task, coordinated to move multiple battalion scale units. Those ships can definitely move a platoon of infantry, artillery or supplies for same, and we have what, a few dozen of them by the time the war starts? Not to mention the 3? Monitors that we will have finished in the next two turns, which could also move at least a platoon each, plus whatever shipping we continue to crank out for both trade and military transport purposes. That is at least two Battalions, and with it going to be at least in part an island hopping campaign that requires us to deploy multiple units to take and hold territory.

We are going to be deploying way more than just those two battalions to the island hopping campaign.

And that's not even including the Zeroth Reich area to the west, which is not a small island we can take with just a single battalion covered by a Monitor. That is likely going to need to be a full Regiment scale deployment, possibly more, and it was the payment we were promised by Crete for our aid in the war. And since it isn't an island we can surround to deny naval access, we have the strong possibility of skilled and well armed combatants retreating into the west, so we have to heavily garrison it to boot.

As for Westcom, while I agree that they are a much larger threat in the long term, they also have their own problems and are not a threat in the short term. They need to win their current wars decisively, then invade their neighbors to the south, win that decisively, and only then can they come for us. That is at least a year of work, even if they have absolutely crushing victories, and we can help delay that further if we have any resources to spare.

Meanwhile we have the pirates, who I'm honestly surprised haven't raided our coasts yet. They are known for taking a city for several days, shipping off the population in chains, then burning whatever they cannot take. And while we can put up a fight they will likely have local superiority in both quantity and quality to any garrison forces present, while it would take us days to form up and get an adequate response to the location. You are correct the pirates are not an existential threat like Westcom is, but you are incorrect about the comparative lack of threat they pose.

It's only a matter of time until we lose some villages to them, and possibly even a larger city. I'm honestly surprised we have not already had such a thing happen, and likely the only reason is the pirates are going for easier targets first. That will cut into our labor pool, our production of trade ships, our trade income, our prestige, our political capital and so on. It won't kill us, but a couple times of that will certainly hurt us and make fighting Westcom much harder, not to mention bolstering our internal opposition. But attacking the Pirates home territory will force them on the defensive and help prevent that from happening.... if we can put enough force behind it.

Click to shrink...

Pirate raids are done on the basis of literal wooden ships. They are not raiding us because we have semi modern arms in terms of cannons percolating out to local units and our big big pile of cannons firing WP is an existential threat to anything not a metal ship. Also, you do realize the sheer scale of a sea-lift and supply operation you are talking about here correct? We are struggling to build a steel hull larger then one with a simple cross beam of reinforcement, our ironclads are all sub 1kt. Our heaviest merchantmen are to be very optimistic a cursed sail powered version of something like a Japanese late war type F and almost certainly more suicidal to operate. 200 tons of available displacement is not a massive amount of infantry carrying capacity, and that's assuming we can even build a ship to 500 tons as a merchantman.

Transportation capacity is far far far more limited then that almost certainly given that the ironclads were literally a case of working out techniques for larger hulls. Us being able to deploy a battalion sized unit overseas is questionable, much less anything larger. Deploying a regiment, even for a light barely opposed landing during the battle of Guam in 1941 took 9 5kt+ transports with loading capacities to match and that was conducted with a minimal supply allocation or provisions to do anything. Additionally, larger transports severely benefit from square cube law in terms of their cargo capacities, leaving us even more fucked with what we have.

The war is going to be almost certainly fought on a company level, even assuming that our largest merchantmen can carry a company much less anything else, and the need for direct unloading is going to severely slow operations as port infrastructure does not exist and we do not have ships large enough to even mount five ton cranes, much less five ton cranes. I think you are massively over-estimating our ship building capabilities, we are a nation that only started large scale construction of merchant ships two years ago to generally inadequate ports and slipways. We aren't going to have anything near the sealift capacity you are talking about, and to a large extent will be stuck using our professionals as the go to units for almost all operations.

 

[Vehrec]

Pirate raids are done on the basis of literal wooden ships. They are not raiding us because we have semi modern arms in terms of cannons percolating out to local units and our big big pile of cannons firing WP is an existential threat to anything not a metal ship. Also, you do realize the sheer scale of a sea-lift and supply operation you are talking about here correct? We are struggling to build a steel hull larger then one with a simple cross beam of reinforcement, our ironclads are all sub 1kt. Our heaviest merchantmen are to be very optimistic a cursed sail powered version of something like a Japanese late war type F and almost certainly more suicidal to operate. 200 tons of available displacement is not a massive amount of infantry carrying capacity, and that's assuming we can even build a ship to 500 tons as a merchantman.

Transportation capacity is far far far more limited then that almost certainly given that the ironclads were literally a case of working out techniques for larger hulls. Us being able to deploy a battalion sized unit overseas is questionable, much less anything larger. Deploying a regiment, even for a light barely opposed landing during the battle of Guam in 1941 took 9 5kt+ transports with loading capacities to match and that was conducted with a minimal supply allocation or provisions to do anything. Additionally, larger transports severely benefit from square cube law in terms of their cargo capacities, leaving us even more fucked with what we have.

The war is going to be almost certainly fought on a company level, even assuming that our largest merchantmen can carry a company much less anything else, and the need for direct unloading is going to severely slow operations as port infrastructure does not exist and we do not have ships large enough to even mount five ton cranes, much less five ton cranes. I think you are massively over-estimating our ship building capabilities, we are a nation that only started large scale construction of merchant ships two years ago to generally inadequate ports and slipways. We aren't going to have anything near the sealift capacity you are talking about, and to a large extent will be stuck using our professionals as the go to units for almost all operations.

Click to shrink...

I dunno, you can fit like 100 guys into those wooden sloops. A regiment might take only 10 of them to get all it's men across-of course, they'd have shit-all in terms of equipment, heavy or personal, but if you really cram them in and are doing unopposed landings, you can probably cram them in MUCH more tightly. How do you think roman armies transported their legions around the Med? Some of those triremes had 200+ man crews.

 

[Magus Zanin]

Transportation capacity is far far far more limited then that almost certainly given that the ironclads were literally a case of working out techniques for larger hulls. Us being able to deploy a battalion sized unit overseas is questionable, much less anything larger. Deploying a regiment, even for a light barely opposed landing during the battle of Guam in 1941 took 9 5kt+ transports with loading capacities to match and that was conducted with a minimal supply allocation or provisions to do anything. Additionally, larger transports severely benefit from square cube law in terms of their cargo capacities, leaving us even more fucked with what we have.

The war is going to be almost certainly fought on a company level, even assuming that our largest merchantmen can carry a company much less anything else, and the need for direct unloading is going to severely slow operations as port infrastructure does not exist and we do not have ships large enough to even mount five ton cranes, much less five ton cranes. I think you are massively over-estimating our ship building capabilities, we are a nation that only started large scale construction of merchant ships two years ago to generally inadequate ports and slipways. We aren't going to have anything near the sealift capacity you are talking about, and to a large extent will be stuck using our professionals as the go to units for almost all operations.

Click to shrink...

That is why I am imagining several merchant ships carrying a platoon each, yes. Assuming 20 tons of capacity and 40ish man platoons, at 200lbs each man the personnel weigh 4 tons, they will be carrying at least half their body weight in various supplies and gear (not all at once, that's accounting for spare equipment and such) which is another 2 tons and then throw in another few tons of food, water and ammo. The various unit sizes and supply ratios will vary (artillery units are heavier on gear and supplies but a bit lighter on personnel), but as long as those ships can carry at least 15 tons we can deploy a company to each island with several of them working in unison and covered by a Monitor. So one or two of those operations for each island we need to take, this very quickly adds up to multiple battalions in theater, with a few leftover merchant ships running supply runs as the island hopping advances.

The only reason I'm not assuming that both Theaters (Island Hopping and Zeroth Reich) need a full Regiment is because I'm assuming Crete will take care of some of those islands, otherwise this quickly balloons even more.

Pirate raids are done on the basis of literal wooden ships. They are not raiding us because we have semi modern arms in terms of cannons percolating out to local units and our big big pile of cannons firing WP is an existential threat to anything not a metal ship.

Click to shrink...

In which case they land on the shore line like most smaller traders/smugglers do, and then form up and march on the city/village? Or hell, land out of sight down the coast, their ships sail off to prevent them from being spotted while they wait for night and launch a raid then? These tactics have been used since the days of the Vikings, I'm sure it's been considered by the Pirates.

Also our coastal defenses don't have a bunch of "semi modern" cannons firing WP shells. The project for building shore defenses hasn't been taken a single time (iirc), and at best we have a garrison unit that has the ACW era cannons that we used in the war for the Liberated Territories with maybe a limited supply of WP shells.

Regardless, there's a LOT of ways to get around such defenses and make them irrelevant. Our average village has no watch tower, much less walls with cannon emplacements watching their ports.

 

[Blackstar]

That is why I am imagining several merchant ships carrying a platoon each, yes. Assuming 20 tons of capacity and 40ish man platoons, at 200lbs each man the personnel weigh 4 tons, they will be carrying at least half their body weight in various supplies and gear (not all at once, that's accounting for spare equipment and such) which is another 2 tons and then throw in another few tons of food, water and ammo. The various unit sizes and supply ratios will vary (artillery units are heavier on gear and supplies but a bit lighter on personnel), but as long as those ships can carry at least 15 tons we can deploy a company to each island with several of them working in unison and covered by a Monitor. So one or two of those operations for each island we need to take, this very quickly adds up to multiple battalions in theater, with a few leftover merchant ships running supply runs as the island hopping advances.

Click to shrink...

At least in terms of Japanese wartime experience, the ratio of men we can load onto a merchantman is going to be something like 1 man per 5 tons of cargo capacity, assuming we are converting it all to dense cabins for a larger ship. For a smaller one, unless we quite literally just pack men in tents on the deck, that's going to be even more challenging. The scale of what your talking about is to cram 45 men and their equipment on something smaller then the HMS Fly, a royal navy cutter that has a deck length of 15m and a beam of 6 meters. And that ship is a 78 tonner so what your proposing is even more cramped. This would give a platoon stored on them, assuming you can use literally every bit of the available deck space, 2 square meters a man and that is a ship that is almost double the size of what you are describing. Naval movements of any sizable unit are challenging and slow, especially in this era and especially with the practically vestigial fleets everyone involved has.

 

[Magus Zanin]

At least in terms of Japanese wartime experience, the ratio of men we can load onto a merchantman is going to be something like 1 man per 5 tons of cargo capacity, assuming we are converting it all to dense cabins for a larger ship. For a smaller one, unless we quite literally just pack men in tents on the deck, that's going to be even more challenging. The scale of what your talking about is to cram 45 men and their equipment on something smaller then the HMS Fly, a royal navy cutter that has a deck length of 15m and a beam of 6 meters. And that ship is a 78 tonner so what your proposing is even more cramped. This would give a platoon stored on them, assuming you can use literally every bit of the available deck space, 2 square meters a man and that is a ship that is almost double the size of what you are describing. Naval movements of any sizable unit are challenging and slow, especially in this era and especially with the practically vestigial fleets everyone involved has.

Click to shrink...

Trireme - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

According to this, Triremes were considered small ships and carried 5ish Archers and 15ish Marines on top of their 150+ man rower crews, cooks, and various officers and provisions. And they carried stockpiles of stones to allow the rowers to throw them in participation in battle, assuming they were not needed to row, as well as fuel for fires and such.

That's a crew of nearly 200 people, plus supplies for same, on a ship 40 meters long and 6 meters wide.

So on our ships that don't need rowers, marines, stockpiles of stones and so on, we can absolutely pack 40ish people and some gear into these small ships.

EDIT: Longship - Wikipedia

Viking Longships are another comparison point, with a size around 20 meters long and 3 meters wide, with a crew of approximately 40 who would both row and fight, with enough room leftover for carrying plenty of loot back and supplies for weeks at sea. And they had very little below deck space, where as ours have more substantial holds for trading.

So in conclusion, this is a challenge, yes. But it's been one that even the local peoples have long since solved, and I'm quite sure we can do better.

 

[Teen Spirit]

No? We have the best industry in the world (in that no one else has anything I would use the term for, barring maybe Crete). and we barely have working electricity, let alone something like even a primitive 1950s clothes washer.

Click to shrink...

Ehh, honestly I think a fair amount of states do have some form of industry, we're a larger state then most so we definitely have a larger industry.

 

[Blackstar]

According to this, Triremes were considered small ships and carried 5ish Archers and 15ish Marines on top of their 150+ man rower crews, cooks, and various officers and provisions. And they carried stockpiles of stones to allow the rowers to throw them in participation in battle, assuming they were not needed to row, as well as fuel for fires and such.

That's a crew of nearly 200 people, plus supplies for same, on a ship 40 meters long and 6 meters wide.

So on our ships that don't need rowers, marines, stockpiles of stones and so on, we can absolutely pack 40ish people and some gear into these small ships.

EDIT: Longship - Wikipedia

Viking Longships are another comparison point, with a size around 20 meters long and 3 meters wide, with a crew of approximately 40 who would both row and fight, with enough room leftover for carrying plenty of loot back and supplies for weeks at sea. And they had very little below deck space, where as ours have more substantial holds for trading.

So in conclusion, this is a challenge, yes. But it's been one that even the local peoples have long since solved, and I'm quite sure we can do better.

Click to shrink...

We are trying to supply a far more modern military and have a far greater burden of ammunition and artilery then anything those units would have, and to an extent experienced ship crews for sail ships are not going to be anywhere near the press gang, because their too valuable for us to press gang. But that is partially besides the point of the balance of trained personnel against that of the production of weapons.

Army: 5200 militia, 500 modern trained infantry, 750 full time, 530 officers, 250 dragoons - total mobilization capacity of ~14,000
Arms: 5300 pipe guns, 1550 rifles, 80 muzzle-loading 12 cm cannons, 33 Uptime rifles, 28 Uptime pistols, 235 breech-loading 12 cm cannons, 27 Uptime shotguns, 24 walkie-talkies, 38 large cannons, 400 bolt-action rifles, 250 submachine guns, 15 60mm mortars, 2 machine guns (currently +250 rifles +260 bolt-action +30 breech-loading 12 cm cannons, +4 large cannons, +100 smgs, +30 60mm, +1000 trained infantry mortars per turn)

Click to shrink...

We are adding a thousand trained infantry a turn, assuming that there are some typo's there. On the other hand we are adding 260 bolt action rifles, 100 SMG's, and 30 mortars taking up the capacity for 540 men trained for skirmish, and technically another 250 in the form of older rifles. This ignores the need to replace the personnel in the artillery arm and that every conventional solder we press gang is going to be deeply useless no matter what weapon we give them just because we are not training them to fight for skirmish. Even if we can deploy a regiment with uptime weapons, them only being trained to fight in line is going to cause a mass casualty event. Even this turn will produce more guns then our capacity to mobilize personnel will be able to support.

[X] Plan Preparing for Mobilization
Infrastructure, 7 dice
-[X] Port Facilities (Stage 4), 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Peloponnese City Modernization (Stage 2), 1 die (10 Resources)
-[X] Telegraph Network (Stage 3), 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Paved Road Construction (Stage 1), 2 dice (10 Resources)
Heavy Industry, 7 + 2 lib dice
-[X] Thríambos Ironworks (Stage 4), 2 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Prometheus Heavy Machinery Plant, 3 dice (60 Resources)
-[X] Attica Coal Mines (Stage 1), 2 dice (20 Resources) 2 lib
-[X] Cement Facilities Expansion, 2 dice (20 Resources)
Light Industry, 4 dice
-[X] Textile Industry (Stage 4), 2 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Complex Goods Production, 2 dice (50 Resources)
Chemical Industry, 4 dice
-[X] Synthetic Flavorings and Scents, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Low-Pressure Hydrogenation Reactors, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Polymer Production (Stage 2), 2 dice (40 Resources)
Agriculture, 4 dice
-[X] Agricultural Mechanization (Stage 3), 1 die (10 Resources)
-[X] Granary Modernization (Stage 1), 3 dice (30 Resources)
Services, 6 dice
-[X] Secondary Schools (Stage 3), 5 dice (50 Resources)
-[X] Adult Literacy Campaigns (Stage 5), 1 die (5 Resources)
Liberated Territories, 8 - 4 assigned elsewhere dice
-[X] Liberated Territories Agricultural Education (Stage 2), 3 dice (15 Resources)
-[X] City Reconstruction and Modernization (Stage 2), 1 die (10 Resources)
Military, 9 +2 lib +3 free dice
-[X] Bolt Action Rifle Production (Stage 3), 1 dice (25 Resources)
-[X] Submachine Gun Production (Stage 2), 3 dice (60 Resources)
-[X] Mine Production, 1 die (10 Resources)
-[X] Improved Coastal Defenses, 1 die (25 Resources)
-[X] Land Fortifications (Stage 1), 2 dice (20 Resources) 2 lib
-[X] Universal Military Training (Stage 1), 4 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Uniform Modernization, 2 dice (20 Resources)
Bureaucracy, 3 dice
-[X] Recruit Americans To Ministry, 2 dice (10 Resources)
-[X] Evaluate Replacements (Agriculture), 1 die

Resources Available: 720
Resources Used: 670
Resources Remaining: 50

Varies from Chimera's plan by going for more synthetic polymers so we can start getting more rubber into our boots and issuing an actually functional boot along with more plastic for the future industry. Military has been partially focused on training so that we can one dice the next stage of universal training the next turn right as the capacity for more guns comes online, that way we can match trained personnel with their weapons in equal measure rather then massively over producing guns and then expecting untrained conscripts to use them. Using the extra funding we have this turn, going secondary education now and starting literacy programs can get us some yields of trained personnel from the various Americans born after the event and the piles of home schooled children, plus ambitious downtimers trying to get an education as we need semi educated personnel now, not in years.

Next turn we can do a massive weapons blitz, probably 3 dice bolt, 4 dice SMG to really pour out the guns and use the rest of the dice to finish whatever did not finish this turn, giving us a massive amount of new production capacity. Training takes months while scaling weapon production is arguably faster to do later. Getting the infrastructure in place also means we are scrambling less in case of needing massive trained units in the actual war. Assuming we are fairly lucky with military dice this turn, we might be able to also do the next stage of cannons to take advantage of new steel production to make higher quality guns and in general more durable guns.

 

[Chimeraguard]

[X] Plan Preparing for Mobilization

 

[Magus Zanin]

Ehh, honestly I think a fair amount of states do have some form of industry, we're a larger state then most so we definitely have a larger industry.

Click to shrink...

The former government of the Liberated Territories was using slave labor with hand tools for their mining as common practice, had firearms barely worthy of the term produced in highly limited quantities, and was primarily relying on uptime weapons stocks to maintain their hold on power.

Sure, some places other than Crete and us have canal systems probably, and maybe even some people have large scale pig iron production if they have the ores for it, or maybe some kind of limited chemical synthesis for specific products. Maybe someone other than us and maybe Crete used cowpox for vaccination on a large scale.

But all of that is only barely worthy of the word industry in the modern meaning. No one other than us is cranking out a thousand semi-modern small arms in a year on top of having the only large scale pharmaceutical/chemical operations, and producing thousands of tons of steel per year.

 

[garphield]

Voting Open

 

[Teen Spirit]

[X] Plan Preparing for Mobilization

 

[Lord_Abaddon]

[X] Plan Preparing for Mobilization

 

[midnight77]

[X] Plan Preparing for Mobilization

 

[Jeggaza]

[x] Plan Preparing for Mobilization

 

[Nevis]

[X] Plan Preparing for Mobilization

 

[TheZealot]

[x] Plan Preparing for Mobilization

 

[Vehrec]

[X] Plan Preparing for Fortification with Mobilization
Infrastructure, 7 dice
-[X] Port Facilities (Stage 4), 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Peloponnese City Modernization (Stage 2), 1 die (10 Resources)
-[X] Telegraph Network (Stage 3), 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Paved Road Construction (Stage 1), 2 dice (10 Resources)
Heavy Industry, 7 + 2 lib dice
-[X] Thríambos Ironworks (Stage 4), 2 dice (30 Resources)
-[X] Prometheus Heavy Machinery Plant, 3 dice (60 Resources)
-[X] Attica Coal Mines (Stage 1), 2 dice (20 Resources) 2 lib
-[X] Cement Facilities Expansion, 2 dice (20 Resources)
Light Industry, 4 dice
-[X] Textile Industry (Stage 4), 2 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Complex Goods Production, 2 dice (50 Resources)
Chemical Industry, 4 dice
-[X] Synthetic Flavorings and Scents, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Low-Pressure Hydrogenation Reactors, 1 die (20 Resources)
-[X] Polymer Production (Stage 2), 2 dice (40 Resources)
Agriculture, 4 dice
-[X] Agricultural Mechanization (Stage 3), 1 die (10 Resources)
-[X] Granary Modernization (Stage 1), 3 dice (30 Resources)
Services, 6 dice
-[X] Secondary Schools (Stage 3), 5 dice (50 Resources)
-[X] Adult Literacy Campaigns (Stage 5), 1 die (5 Resources)
Liberated Territories, 8 - 2 assigned elsewhere dice
-[X] Liberated Territories Agricultural Education (Stage 2), 3 dice (15 Resources)
-[X] City Reconstruction and Modernization (Stage 2), 3 die (30 Resources)
Military, 9 +3 free dice
-[X] Bolt Action Rifle Production (Stage 3), 1 dice (25 Resources)
-[X] Submachine Gun Production (Stage 2), 3 dice (60 Resources)
-[X] Mine Production, 1 die (10 Resources)
-[X] Universal Military Training (Stage 1), 5 dice (50 Resources)
-[X] Uniform Modernization, 2 dice (20 Resources)
Bureaucracy, 3 dice
-[X] Recruit Americans To Ministry, 3 dice (15 Resources -6 PS)


I put three dice on recruiting americans, because one-die replacments ofministers are too risky for my taste, and cut out the fortifications for more Universal Military Training and City Modernization, because I want us to have at least some reinforced concrete bunkers on the frontier in case the Air Force have whipped up some actually good artillery. And you need the cement done the turn before you build such things so the supplies can actually arrive before construction finishes.

 

[Magus Zanin]

We are adding a thousand trained infantry a turn, assuming that there are some typo's there. On the other hand we are adding 260 bolt action rifles, 100 SMG's, and 30 mortars taking up the capacity for 540 men trained for skirmish, and technically another 250 in the form of older rifles. This ignores the need to replace the personnel in the artillery arm and that every conventional solder we press gang is going to be deeply useless no matter what weapon we give them just because we are not training them to fight for skirmish. Even if we can deploy a regiment with uptime weapons, them only being trained to fight in line is going to cause a mass casualty event. Even this turn will produce more guns then our capacity to mobilize personnel will be able to support.

Click to shrink...

This is a reasonable argument, and the math checks out at least in broad strokes. I would like to be able to export some arms to our allies, especially those like New Pueblo who are in dire need of anything we can give them, as well as build up our replacement weapon and ammo production capacity, but I get that we may not be able to do that before the war with Rhodes.

[x] Plan Preparing for Mobilization

 

[Magus Zanin]

I put three dice on recruiting americans, because one-die replacments ofministers are too risky for my taste, and cut out the fortifications for more Universal Military Training and City Modernization, because I want us to have at least some reinforced concrete bunkers on the frontier in case the Air Force have whipped up some actually good artillery. And you need the cement done the turn before you build such things so the supplies can actually arrive before construction finishes.

Click to shrink...

Eh, trench lines and such will still work somewhat on artillery, and the walls we can currently build are decent against small arms. If they are pulling out a battery or two of M777s against us we are screwed for that engagement already, concrete or not. Our only option at that point is hit their rear lines and hope we can string them out and run them out of shells.

The minister replacement thing is a different issue. I can see the argument that we should put more into that when we do it, but at the same time we don't need to select anyone if we don't get candidates we like so the risk is limited. The biggest issue I see in this is one of wasted resources. Should we be putting that dice elsewhere if it has low changes of getting us good candidates for minister? A more steady return like recruiting more Americans for our school projects, for example?

 

[Chimeraguard]

This is a reasonable argument, and the math checks out at least in broad strokes. I would like to be able to export some arms to our allies, especially those like New Pueblo who are in dire need of anything we can give them, as well as build up our replacement weapon and ammo production capacity, but I get that we may not be able to do that before the war with Rhodes.

[x] Plan Preparing for Mobilization

Click to shrink...

New Pueblo we're basically cut off from by New Monthan since they control both sides of the Dardanelles now. New Washington meanwhile is said to have gotten its own SMG production set up during the Vanguardist War (as has Christ's Kingdom) according to QM. Crete we don't know about, but Crete we're asking help from for its navy, not its army.

The minister replacement thing is a different issue. I can see the argument that we should put more into that when we do it, but at the same time we don't need to select anyone if we don't get candidates we like so the risk is limited. The biggest issue I see in this is one of wasted resources. Should we be putting that dice elsewhere if it has low changes of getting us good candidates for minister? A more steady return like recruiting more Americans for our school projects, for example?

Click to shrink...

We can only put one die max on a Minister Replacement.

[]Evaluate Replacements: It is apparent that some Ministers are too incompetent, reactionary, or both to serve the people well in their current positions. This would evaluate various people for a ministry position, followed by firing the current minister if they are judged to be more competent. (1 Dice, rolled) (Possible Political Support loss/gain) (Limited to 1 minister per turn)

Click to shrink...

 

[Teen Spirit]

The former government of the Liberated Territories was using slave labor with hand tools for their mining as common practice, had firearms barely worthy of the term produced in highly limited quantities, and was primarily relying on uptime weapons stocks to maintain their hold on power.

Click to shrink...

The Second State of New Arizona was basically just American Consquaitadors, yes, but they are not indicative of how most states are. Places like Rome, Cyprus and Crimea almost certainly have industry, not to mention even war ravaged New Washington has probably one of the most educated populaces in the world.

 

[Chimeraguard]

The CKE probably isn't too far behind New Washington. While there's a lot of stereotyping them as a bunch of Downtimer cultists, they have the vast majority of the NAR's population, including a lot of the educated personnel the NAR was persecuting for being "too liberal." Plus chunks of former New Washington, Emergency Commission, and ART population.

 

[VonVonson]

Thing to remember is that we had to build a lot of our industrial equipment from scratch while anyone in western anatolia is both closer to Tucson and has had more timer to loot it, so they have uptimer industrial equipment to bootstrap their industry along with more Americans to staff it. Yeah our tooling is getting more precise with every year but New Wash has had computer assisted lathes likely since it was first formed.

 

[RadicalCali]

[X] Plan Preparing for Fortification with Mobilization

 

[Magus Zanin]

Thing to remember is that we had to build a lot of our industrial equipment from scratch while anyone in western anatolia is both closer to Tucson and has had more timer to loot it, so they have uptimer industrial equipment to bootstrap their industry along with more Americans to staff it. Yeah our tooling is getting more precise with every year but New Wash has had computer assisted lathes likely since it was first formed.

Click to shrink...

I do take your point, but I would also like to point out that they are almost certainly not producing any of their own steel or pharmaceuticals.

Yes, they can make up for a lot of that with salvage (especially the steel), but within the next several years that is going to start running out in varying amounts.

Meanwhile we are going to get better over time, not worse.