always_confused
Perpetually unwanted
- Location
- SEA
[X] Plan Years of Agriculture, Learning, And Goods
Attempting to Fulfil The Plan: ISOT Edition
- Thread starter garphield
- Start date
- Alt. History
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- Tags
- plan quest
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
they are expecting a lot? i feel somewhat unrealistly a lot.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
[X]A Partially Achievable Plan
Only thing I really object to with this plan is Military. I imagine Stage 6 Cannons is gonna be a pain. But on the other hand, we do have the Iolcus-WestCom alliance to bully at some point. Might as well build up more so we canconquer liberate their territory.
Only thing I really object to with this plan is Military. I imagine Stage 6 Cannons is gonna be a pain. But on the other hand, we do have the Iolcus-WestCom alliance to bully at some point. Might as well build up more so we can
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean not really, no. We could easily beat Iolcus with what we have now and we basically don't have the ability to fight Rhodes at the moment and won't until we have something resembling a fleet, which will take more than 3 years to build.
Not so much for a navy, more for sticking one or two on our merchant ships to chase off opportunistic pirates, most of which will be Rhodian.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh yeah their expectations are unrealistic but that's part of the point, we're riding high off a massive win, are kind of assuming the massive growth we've achieved can be sustained, and probably a few in the Central Committee want our character to bite off more than she can chew.
[X]A Partially Achievable Plan
[X]A Partially Achievable Plan
The Ag target is the sticking point for me, I don't think we have the social or technological infrastructure to actually mass mobilize tens of thousands of (presumably Egyptian/other downtime immigrant?) peasants into a Bronze Age Virgin Lands Campaign. In another 5-10 years maybe, but I don't think it's sustainable this Plan. We need more industry, more transport and communications infrastructure, and more well-educated bureaucrats before we can coordinate that effectively.
The Ag target is the sticking point for me, I don't think we have the social or technological infrastructure to actually mass mobilize tens of thousands of (presumably Egyptian/other downtime immigrant?) peasants into a Bronze Age Virgin Lands Campaign. In another 5-10 years maybe, but I don't think it's sustainable this Plan. We need more industry, more transport and communications infrastructure, and more well-educated bureaucrats before we can coordinate that effectively.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Admittedly come around to this as well, My main issue with A Partially Achievable Plan is I feel the Military stuff is gonna be too much of a resource sink at time we can afford to not go ham on Military production. And less attention to the military suits us politically since Sean Gordon, our character's main political rival, is in charge of the army.
- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
Oh yeah we're getting fucked over by high expectations created by ridiculous growth rate when we were going from 0. We've already exhausted a lot of the quickest gains yet they still ask for the same rates of improvement.
This is why we should spend a bunch of political power on reducing expectations.
There was a good point in the effortpost about military being very kind on the dice economy since it's separate dice. But it's true that it's going to be hard on the resources economy. I'm kinda unsure right now. I feel like the other plans don't spend enough political power on downplaying expectations for me. But I agree the resource drain of the military could fuck us over, especially since we don't even really have targets to aim it at.
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I think Blackstar is massively underestimating the gains that can be made by switching from hoe-and-handplow agriculture to even animal-plows and mechanized reaping machinery for grains. When the farmers can do all their farming in their current fields in a week instead of a month, won't they logically look to increase their field areas? And the plan makes it clear that heavy investments in fishing and sourcing new labor via immigration are part of the 55% target.
[X] Plan Years of Agriculture, Learning, And Goods
[X]Plan Simping For the Peasantry: A Maoist Agricultural Miracle.
-[X]Decreased Resource Allocation: While current tax burdens may not be horrific to the level of causing famines, it still causes considerable hardship to many of our citizens. Giving them a break for some time will prove quite popular. (350 base resources per turn, +20 Political Support)
-[X]150% increases in MFCE: The further construction of more mines, steel mills, cement plants, and a few scattered power plants is something that must be done, but it must be balanced with investments in other areas of the economy. (-15 Political Support)
-[X]130% increase in capital goods production: While mechanization of all areas of the economy is extremely important, the simple fact is that limits on the availability of trained personnel and raw materials limit what can be done to a certain extent. (-15 Political Support)
-[X]150% increase in consumer goods production: With the coming ability to mass produce plastics in large quantities, many previously impossible or expensive goods can be provided to the citizenry in massive quantities. If we actually want to improve the lives of the workers, investing in the possibilities they provide should be a priority. (+5 Political Support)
-[X]55% increase in agricultural production: Heavy investments in agriculture and fishing, alongside attracting immigrants from other countries to increase our agricultural workforce yet further, will enable a great increase in agricultural production. (+20 Political Support)
-[X]Nationwide Compulsory Education: Top priority must be given to all educational efforts, giving us the possibility of becoming the first nation on Earth to give compulsory and free education to all of its inhabitants within three years. Building up an educated population, even if subpar across the board for now, will give us a massive advantage on the world stage and bring us closer to the dream of fully advanced Communism. (stage 5 primary across country, stage 3 secondary, stage 1 advanced education, Nationwide Compulsory Education) (+30 Political Support)
-[X]Moderate Expansion: Giving more and better equipment to our military is a necessary action, as a few thousand pipe guns aren't going to be enough against anyone who didn't enslave 95% of their population. Massively increasing the production of black powder rifles will do good enough to arm most of our troops for now, with the few more modern weapons produced being given to professional formations. Starting the mass issuance of mortars on the battalion level should also be enough to ensure that the Revolution is able to defend itself, at least for the near term. (cannon production (stage 5), rifle production (stage 5), bolt action rifle production (stage 3), submachine gun production (stage 3), monitor construction campaign) (-20 Political Support)
[X] Plan Years of Agriculture, Learning, And Goods
[X]Plan Simping For the Peasantry: A Maoist Agricultural Miracle.
-[X]Decreased Resource Allocation: While current tax burdens may not be horrific to the level of causing famines, it still causes considerable hardship to many of our citizens. Giving them a break for some time will prove quite popular. (350 base resources per turn, +20 Political Support)
-[X]150% increases in MFCE: The further construction of more mines, steel mills, cement plants, and a few scattered power plants is something that must be done, but it must be balanced with investments in other areas of the economy. (-15 Political Support)
-[X]130% increase in capital goods production: While mechanization of all areas of the economy is extremely important, the simple fact is that limits on the availability of trained personnel and raw materials limit what can be done to a certain extent. (-15 Political Support)
-[X]150% increase in consumer goods production: With the coming ability to mass produce plastics in large quantities, many previously impossible or expensive goods can be provided to the citizenry in massive quantities. If we actually want to improve the lives of the workers, investing in the possibilities they provide should be a priority. (+5 Political Support)
-[X]55% increase in agricultural production: Heavy investments in agriculture and fishing, alongside attracting immigrants from other countries to increase our agricultural workforce yet further, will enable a great increase in agricultural production. (+20 Political Support)
-[X]Nationwide Compulsory Education: Top priority must be given to all educational efforts, giving us the possibility of becoming the first nation on Earth to give compulsory and free education to all of its inhabitants within three years. Building up an educated population, even if subpar across the board for now, will give us a massive advantage on the world stage and bring us closer to the dream of fully advanced Communism. (stage 5 primary across country, stage 3 secondary, stage 1 advanced education, Nationwide Compulsory Education) (+30 Political Support)
-[X]Moderate Expansion: Giving more and better equipment to our military is a necessary action, as a few thousand pipe guns aren't going to be enough against anyone who didn't enslave 95% of their population. Massively increasing the production of black powder rifles will do good enough to arm most of our troops for now, with the few more modern weapons produced being given to professional formations. Starting the mass issuance of mortars on the battalion level should also be enough to ensure that the Revolution is able to defend itself, at least for the near term. (cannon production (stage 5), rifle production (stage 5), bolt action rifle production (stage 3), submachine gun production (stage 3), monitor construction campaign) (-20 Political Support)
- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
I agree the assessment on agriculture is probably too pessimistic but probably just enough to get the middle target, the top one is still pretty unrealistic. And all the plans that aim for more agriculture are too ambitious on other fronts simultaneously.
Like, your plan is outright political power positive, which is a good sign it's way too ambitious. We really need to spend political power right now to reduce unrealistic expectations.
We're restoring the agriculture post war. I'd bet they're still lower this year than in the time of New Arizona mismanagement, and that's lower than regular bronze age yields pre-NA.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Canonically, Agriculture was one of the few things that New Arizona did right shortly after its foundation. Because they had an actual agronomist in charge of that sector.
They had issues from the bad harvest same as everyone else, but a lot of that was prioritizing selling food to buy guns and ammo from WestCom over feeding the Helots rather than poor management of the agriculture itself.
They had issues from the bad harvest same as everyone else, but a lot of that was prioritizing selling food to buy guns and ammo from WestCom over feeding the Helots rather than poor management of the agriculture itself.
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- Location
- The Golden State
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X]A Partially Achievable Plan
- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
Well yes but the war collapsed a lot of it, and they didn't have the industry to roll out labour saving implements and water infrastructure either. I think there's a good amount of gain to be had by putting it back in order and applying what we already know how to deploy.
Completely forgot that. Though, what is the extent an agronomist can effect change to without an industry for tools and chemicals? These are our main bottlenecks, why wouldn't these be bottlenecks for NA as well?
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
I'll admit I'm a little confused why the low-agri-commitment plans aren't going for the Agricultural Modernization option. Are we really expecting such a cavalcade of new Agriculture projects that we won't get a chance to do 2 phases of Dams and 3 of Mechanization?
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Depending on other circumstances we might cut Agri a bit to free up resources for other projects.
And personally, I'm hoping that trade with Egypt means we can import a lot of various animals from them, since that's one thing that Egypt has plenty of that we can't exactly mass-produce in a factory.
Which would probably open up a lot of new Agri Projects to use our Agri dice on because Animal Husbandry is one of the things our MC is actually genuinely good at.
And personally, I'm hoping that trade with Egypt means we can import a lot of various animals from them, since that's one thing that Egypt has plenty of that we can't exactly mass-produce in a factory.
Which would probably open up a lot of new Agri Projects to use our Agri dice on because Animal Husbandry is one of the things our MC is actually genuinely good at.
PUT THE COWS ON THE BOAT AND NOBODY NEEDS TO FUND ANY REVOLUTIONARIES, PHARAOH
But yeah, mass deployment of tractors is decades away optimistically, so agricultural power is gonna have to come from draft animals for the forseeable future. It would definitely be a good idea to stock up. And even after we manage to get tractors going, military logistics aren't going to have trucks (or roads to run them on) for even longer so we'll still need plentiful livestock.
But yeah, mass deployment of tractors is decades away optimistically, so agricultural power is gonna have to come from draft animals for the forseeable future. It would definitely be a good idea to stock up. And even after we manage to get tractors going, military logistics aren't going to have trucks (or roads to run them on) for even longer so we'll still need plentiful livestock.
- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There is no real miracle of agriculture we can pull out, not in three years, especially since per acre yields are static and we cannot multiply populations in agriculture, in fact, most of our industrial program explicitly relies on us looting the agricultural sector for workers. The below image basically shows the start of mechanization and the improvements made in the US since the Civil War.
To even accomplish the 25% goal that means we need to increase effective labor power by more than twenty-five percent and arguably far more if we want to continue the looting of the agricultural sector for industrial aims. This disparity is only deepened since we need to both bring new lands under cultivation/develop virgin lands and we are likely already farming the best lands we have, leaving mid and lower-grade soils left for utilization. Even if we stole literally no one from the farms, that would be a transition on the order of thirty percent in relative agricultural efficiency per person. Made even worse in that there is no source of nitrogen for soils outside of cover crops, limiting per-acre operations to the amount of nitrogen we can pump into the soil via inefficient crop rotations.
Historical Corn Grain Yields in the U.S. (Purdue University)
The Corny News Network was created by RL (Bob) Nielsen, Extension Agronomist at Purdue University. The articles written for the CNN pertain primarily to corn production & management issues important for Indiana corn growers and their consultants.
www.agry.purdue.edu
To even accomplish the 25% goal that means we need to increase effective labor power by more than twenty-five percent and arguably far more if we want to continue the looting of the agricultural sector for industrial aims. This disparity is only deepened since we need to both bring new lands under cultivation/develop virgin lands and we are likely already farming the best lands we have, leaving mid and lower-grade soils left for utilization. Even if we stole literally no one from the farms, that would be a transition on the order of thirty percent in relative agricultural efficiency per person. Made even worse in that there is no source of nitrogen for soils outside of cover crops, limiting per-acre operations to the amount of nitrogen we can pump into the soil via inefficient crop rotations.
- Location
- Europe
The location of the land matters, as the closest to the cities the land is the better its productivity can be increased.
Even if some of that would be a bias that would increase the apparent production, the closesness to the cities will majorly increase the chances to make the mechanization of agricolture more effective that it would be otherwise, because there would be a Better chance to resolve the eventuale complicati in and effettuate mechanical reparations.
Also, with the amount of people around we aren't even necessarily using all of the better land.
I don't know that we're actually equal to the US in 1866, in terms of agricultural intensity.
We aren't using pesticides at all, and I'm uncertain if there are any low-grade fertilizers we might be able to access. If we want to talk crazy, we could try an expedition to expected guano deposits, or means of attracting them ourselves.
We aren't using pesticides at all, and I'm uncertain if there are any low-grade fertilizers we might be able to access. If we want to talk crazy, we could try an expedition to expected guano deposits, or means of attracting them ourselves.