Army of Liberty: a Fantasy Revolutionary Warfare Quest

But if the 251st shoots from the south theyll presumably be damaging important enemy units(because if not, why put them there?)
I'm not pulling the 251th south because there is an important unit there, I'm putting them south because it increases our fire volume via the longer front line. If we have a line of 6* infantry against an advancing one of 4-5 infantry, we are flat out able to do more damage. Making more attacks than the enemy is advantageous, since it increases the chance of routing an enemy and inflicting a critical hit that actually hurts.

By comparison, keeping them in reserve is just a safety blanket for us, considering we already have a unit in reserve (the 45th) and our line is unlikely to buckle. I prefer making more attacks to a greater reserve. The north is unlikely to need a reserve force considering we have elven units going up against the 148th, the 200th with an offensive genius and artillery support.
Does brace last more than a turn? If not it would probably be better to hide.
Brace only last a turn. Though on second thought, I should make them ready fire east, considering there is a slight chance of the enemy moving closer.
 
I'm not pulling the 251th south because there is an important unit there, I'm putting them south because it increases our fire volume via the longer front line. If we have a line of 6* infantry against an advancing one of 4-5 infantry, we are flat out able to do more damage. Making more attacks than the enemy is advantageous, since it increases the chance of routing an enemy and inflicting a critical hit that actually hurts.

By comparison, keeping them in reserve is just a safety blanket for us, considering we already have a unit in reserve (the 45th) and our line is unlikely to buckle. I prefer making more attacks to a greater reserve. The north is unlikely to need a reserve force considering we have elven units going up against the 148th, the 200th with an offensive genius and artillery support.

The thing is, if the 251st is in position to meaningfully contribute to the fight, it turns into a prime target for the artillery too.

Shooting at the infantry in woods/villages deals very little damage, while shooting at our infantry on the open plains can have the enemy achieve a rout in 1/2 turns, cutting out the dps from an entire regiment.

Still, getting that damage out during these turns where they get shot at may be worth it, because damage against the enemy will invetiably reduce damage against us too and the 251st will deal full 1d100 damage with charge and hob melee boni. Even if the 251st routs, the slight reduction of damage elsewhere from the distraction to the artillery and earlier route of their target may mean that we save more troops in the long run by cutting down enemy damage output
 
Shooting at the infantry in woods/villages deals very little damage, while shooting at our infantry on the open plains can have the enemy achieve a rout in 1/2 turns, cutting out the dps from an entire regiment.

Still, getting that damage out during these turns where they get shot at may be worth it, because damage against the enemy will invetiably reduce damage against us too and the 251st will deal full 1d100 damage with charge and hob melee boni. Even if the 251st routs, the slight reduction of damage elsewhere from the distraction to the artillery and earlier route of their target may mean that we save more troops in the long run by cutting down enemy damage output
That was my thinking, yes. Keep in mind that missing out on 1-2 turns of artillery fire is by no means a slight damage reduction - if they devote their shots to an auxiliary unit, they can't shot us in the centre and consequently have to face a stronger line of infantry while we happily blast them.
I'm not sure if moving two SE is the best move. It commits us to finishing moving next turn and its a bit too far forward for my likeing if the enemy does choose to move forward this turn.
This is necessary for how I plan to position them (just west of the hill). I also don't forsee the enemy line moving forward this turn, considering they are still blind to us and the cavalry is in ready charge range. The 251th Hob is 2-3 turns of full movement enemy away from combat and with the line standing still, so I think spending 2 turns on positioning the 251st Hobs is pretty reasonable.
 
This is necessary for how I plan to position them (just west of the hill). I also don't forsee the enemy line moving forward this turn, considering they are still blind to us and the cavalry is in ready charge range. The 251th Hob is 2-3 turns of full movement enemy away from combat and with the line standing still, so I think spending 2 turns on positioning the 251st Hobs is pretty reasonable.
If that's the case then sholdn't the 28th Halflings move E twice?
 
If that's the case then sholdn't the 28th Halflings move E twice?
I don't think I can do that considering the 251st are inside the tile. And if they weren't, I don't plan to move the 28th Half. Pfd. more than 2 east (4 movement cost), considering both their extended range and vulnerability in melee. From their final position, they can ready fire and wait for the 14th Hum. to come in closer, so that position is alright.
 
That was my thinking, yes. Keep in mind that missing out on 1-2 turns of artillery fire is by no means a slight damage reduction - if they devote their shots to an auxiliary unit, they can't shot us in the centre and consequently have to face a stronger line of infantry while we happily blast them.

Two turns of artillery fire causes an average of 88 casualties spread across 4 shots, so 7 cohesion damage maybe? Thats not nothing, but one infantry regiment in melee deals more damage on average during this battle, so its not the thing that will decide it.

And of course, you need 100 casualties to reduce enemy damage output by -10 or deal their entire cohesion to reduce it to 0, so dealing less damage but routing is usually stronger than dealing more damage without routing.
 
Two turns of artillery fire causes an average of 88 casualties spread across 4 shots, so 7 cohesion damage maybe? Thats not nothing, but one infantry regiment in melee deals more damage on average during this battle, so its not the thing that will decide it.

And of course, you need 100 casualties to reduce enemy damage output by -10 or deal their entire cohesion to reduce it to 0, so dealing less damage but routing is usually stronger than dealing more damage without routing.
I think we have debated this point enough, and I don't want to fill this thread solely with our back and forth. If you prefer an alternate way to handle the 251st Hobs, you are free to make a variant of my plan.
 
[X] Plan Shoot the Dwa
-[X] Picture of Plan
-[X] 10th Hum. Art. Fire 20th Dwa
-[X] 5th Hob. H. Art. Fire 20th Dwa
-[X] 19th Half. Pfd. Rapid Move E, Fire 20th Dwa
-[X] 31st Elv, Art.: Ready Fire [NE,E] Medium Range
-[X] 84th Elv, Art.: Ready Fire [NE,E] Medium Range
-[X] 251th Hob.: Move SW (Move after 108th Elv. Hsr and 13th Hob. Lan)
-[X] 200th Hob. Fire (2*E of your position)
-[X] 72nd Hum.: Fire 20th Dwa
-[X] 148th Hum. Fire into woods (E,NE of your position)
-[X] 42nd Elv. Resupply 5th Hob. H. Art. [Transfer 2 Munitions]
-[X] 16th Half. Move E (Move after 108th Elv. Hsr and 13th Hob. Lan)
-[X] 45th Elv. Resupply 42nd [Transfer 2 Munitions]
-[X] 28th Half. Pfd. Move SE (Move after 108th Elv. Hsr and 13th Hob. Lan)
-[X] 55th Elv. Hsrs: [-] (Routing)
-[X] 108th Elv. Hsr. Move SW,SW,SE
-[X] 13th Hob. Lan. Move NW,SW,SW

AnyDice Number Calc At least a 85.63% chance to do 17 cohesion damage to the 20th Dwarf, enough to rout them. Numbers might be off since I'm not sure how to exactly calculate damage.

The basic idea with this plan is that we rout 20th Dwarf, and in the south I plan to not advance the infantry up too much. Most of the infantry are out of artillery range in the plains, with one Halfing being medium range of the 61st. And the other being the 19th. Cavalry position is about similar to Red Rationalist's plan, except with the lancer being shifted one SW.

I considered having the 200th ready fire east of the village since firing on the Nymph is unlikely to do much damage but considering how conservative Von Wachenheim is it seems unlikely that ready fire east of the village is needed, and units that could charge the village are the 20th with a 85.63% to rout and the 93rd Elv which I don't think is much of a concern. Charging with the Nymphs would be a big blunder, and most definitely won't happen.

Edit: I noticed I made an error in the calculations, it should be a 85.63% chance to do 17 cohesion damage to the 20th Dwarf instead of 78.94%.
 
Last edited:
@Photomajig Do charging units that are hidden retain advantage from ambush if they charge a unit even though they move right next to an enemy unit. Could we order someone to charge a unit we suspect to be in a tile but they're hidden. And is the tile, 3SE from the 251st a forest tile, there is a little bit of forest on the tile.

They do, yes. You can Charge a Hex you suspect to be occupied. Do note that the enemy will get Ambush Advantage on any Ready Fire or Brace counterattack. That's a Plains Hex, apologies for the confusing placement of the terrain there.

I guarantee i read that three times without seeing the word "adjacent", but fair enough.

I'm not surprised. The rain is obviously granting +2 Concealment to the word.

@Photomajig do nymphs get advantage on attack and defense in their tiles?
The wording here is a bit unclear, I initially thought it meant "Advantage against [enemy] Unit in Village, Urban, Bridge and Fortified", adding "this" before Unit I think would clear it up.

They get Advantage on attacks. I realize now the description is still a bit unclear for what counts as attacking. So as examples:

A) Nymphs are in Forest. They Fire at an enemy from that Forest. They have Advantage.
B) Nymphs are in Forest. An enemy Charges them. The enemy does not have Disadvantage, but the Nymphs will have Advantage on their counter-attack if Braced.
C) Enemy is in Forest. Nymphs Charge them. This counts as fighting in the defender's Hex, so they have Advantage.
D) Enemy is on Plains and Nymphs are in an adjacent Forest. Nymphs Attack the enemy in melee. This counts as fighting in the defender's Hex of Plains, so the Nymphs do not have Advantage.

Enemy gets Advantage attacking them when they are in Village/Urban/Bridge/Fortified tiles. I'll clarify the description in a bit, thanks for the heads-up.

That said, I've half a mind to revise the Nymph trait later. Something like them treating their favored Terrains as Plains for movement costs would have been evil on this map.
 
They get Advantage on attacks. I realize now the description is still a bit unclear for what counts as attacking. So as examples:

A) Nymphs are in Forest. They Fire at an enemy from that Forest. They have Advantage.
B) Nymphs are in Forest. An enemy Charges them. The enemy does not have Disadvantage, but the Nymphs will have Advantage on their counter-attack if Braced.
C) Enemy is in Forest. Nymphs Charge them. This counts as fighting in the defender's Hex, so they have Advantage.
D) Enemy is on Plains and Nymphs are in an adjacent Forest. Nymphs Attack the enemy in melee. This counts as fighting in the defender's Hex of Plains, so the Nymphs do not have Advantage.

Enemy gets Advantage attacking them when they are in Village/Urban/Bridge/Fortified tiles. I'll clarify the description in a bit, thanks for the heads-up.

That said, I've half a mind to revise the Nymph trait later. Something like them treating their favored Terrains as Plains for movement costs would have been evil on this map.

Does that mean that shooting at nymphs in a forest does not have a disadvantage beyond the forest itself?
 
I'm not surprised. The rain is obviously granting +2 Concealment to the word.
I think the rule about concealed units getting revealed if their tile is attacked should also be added to the stealth rules. That one is pretty important, considering it's one the second way to reveal hidden units.
They get Advantage on attacks. I realize now the description is still a bit unclear for what counts as attacking. So as examples:
So in short, nymphs have advantage on launching ranged attacks or counterattacks from favourable terrain (woods/forests/wetlands), get an advantage while charging or melee attacking into favourable terrain, but enemies get an advantage against nymphs that are standing in unfavourable terrain (village/urban/bridge/fortified). Have I gotten that right?
 
Last edited:
AnyDice Number Calc At least a 85.63% chance to do 17 cohesion damage to the 20th Dwarf, enough to rout them. Numbers might be off since I'm not sure how to exactly calculate damage.
Doing my own calculations, I came up with a significantly lower probability. You forgot to add "the highest 1 one of 2d100" in some places, leading to the calculations treating the advantaged rolls as 2 attacks, which massively inflated the actual cohesion damage.

Based on my own calculations, we only have about a 40.3% chance of routing the 20th Dwarf this turn, but a pretty good chance to do 12 damage (82%), which would result in them ending the turn with only 6 cohesion left. Still, we will very likely rout them next turn, especially if the formations moves in close enough to be subjected to 3 artillery units firing rather than 2. Overall, the first line of dwarves will probably break over the 2 next turns, leaving the question how Wachenheim will react to that.

Edit: I also played around with the numbers a bit, and holy shit halflings are OP on this map! An infantry mid ranged attack against them has a mere 47% chance of doing a single point of cohesion damage., with normal artillery getting a 61% chance for 1 damage and 47% for 2. With the notable exception of the 75th Elv. Art. due to offensive genius, our halflings are almost invincible in a artillery standoff. If you can prevent the enemy from charging halflings, they are incredibly resilient infantry.
 
Last edited:
To get back on the topic of voting: I have some issues with the alternative plan "Shoot The Dwa", which I believe make it a bad choice.
-[X] 72nd Hum.: Fire 20th Dwa
-[X] 148th Hum. Fire 20th Dwa
This action reveals our human infantry units, for the sake of two literal longshots against a single dwarven unit. Both units are 3 tiles away, giving us a 61% of inflicting of at least 3 cohesion damage. I don't think this attack is worth sacrificing our stealth for, especially as we can wait for another unit to come closer. By comparison, simply readying fire at medium range gives us a 57% chance of inflicting at least 5 cohesion damage. Routing one dwarf unit this turn isn't important, the threat of routing them is.
-[X] 251th Hob.: Move SW (Move after 108th Elv. Hsr and 13th Hob. Lan)
-[X] 28th Half. Pfd. Move SE (Move after 108th Elv. Hsr and 13th Hob. Lan)
Secondly, due to preference against moving the 251th Hobs south, this plan also move our second halfling sniper regiment, one of the most valueable units we have, away from the important centre lane and further south. Due to this disorganization we are far less able to put pressure on the southern flank. By comparison, my plan positions the second halfling regiment in such a way that they ready a fire at mediun range if the enemy formations advances even once. Since we are starting with the intense artillery barrage, there is a not insignificant chance the enemy formation marches forward.

This plan sacrifices two of our crucial ambush advantages for little benefit except to rout one unit and leaves us our second halfling sniper unit out of it's centre line, all for the sake of avoiding some artillery bombardment against one unit of infantry. I don't think this trade-off is worth it, and think my proposal []Preparing To Slaughter is the better choice.
 
Last edited:
This action reveals our human infantry units, for the sake of two literal longshots against a single dwarven unit. Both units are 3 tiles away, giving us a 61% of inflicting of at least 3 cohesion damage. I don't think this attack is worth sacrificing our stealth for, especially as we can wait for another unit to come closer. By comparison, simply readying fire at medium range gives us a 57% chance of inflicting at least 5 cohesion damage. Routing one dwarf unit this turn isn't important, the threat of routing them is.
There may be the chance that the enemy doesn't move and decides to fire into the woods/village. They likely, given their hesitance, will attempt to try and reveal our units. I think you have a good point about the threat of routing a unit, so I'll move the 148th to attack the Nymphs instead.
Secondly, due to preference against moving the 251th Hobs south, this plan also move our second halfling sniper regiment, one of the most valueable units we have, away from the important centre lane and further south. Due to this disorganization we are far less able to put pressure on the southern flank. By comparison, my plan positions the second halfling regiment in such a way that they ready a fire at mediun range if the enemy formations advances even once. Since we are starting with the intense artillery barrage, there is a not insignificant chance the enemy formation marches forward.
I plan to move the 28th Halfing Pfd east next turn, given that the southern infantry is further back we have more time to move them. For using the artillery, we only used the 10th this round and last round as well, given their cautiousness I don't think one artillery unit even if it is an offensive genius unit will make the enemy advance. It's only until next turn when they learn of our horse artillery that they will be forced to advance.
 
I plan to move the 28th Halfing Pfd east next turn, given that the southern infantry is further back we have more time to move them. For using the artillery, we only used the 10th this round and last round as well, given their cautiousness I don't think one artillery unit even if it is an offensive genius unit will make the enemy advance. It's only until next turn when they learn of our horse artillery that they will be forced to advance.
The problem with this is that you include an attack with the horse artillery in your own plan, which will reveal it. Consequently there is a decent chance that the enemy decides to advance. I think the halflings should stay in the centre-line, given their long range, ambush potential and resiliance against enemy artillery fire. What's the benefit of having them south-east, where they can take shots at fewer units of the enemy line? There isn't a good reason not to skip a round of halfling sniper fire by moving them out of position, which is one of the best weapons we have to pressure the enemy.
 
The problem with this is that you include an attack with the horse artillery in your own plan, which will reveal it. Consequently there is a decent chance that the enemy decides to advance. I think the halflings should stay in the centre-line, given their long range, ambush potential and resiliance against enemy artillery fire. What's the benefit of having them south-east, where they can take shots at fewer units of the enemy line? There isn't a good reason not to skip a round of halfling sniper fire by moving them out of position, which is one of the best weapons we have to pressure the enemy.
They can only react to the horse artillery next turn? I'm a bit confused about the point you're making. Also, even if we move them the 28th halflings east then they'll still be in long range of the enemy for their rifles. Medium range would be one turn space away, in which case going SE and the E wouldn't be much different if the 28th halflings in both hypothetical positions were to start firing in medium range.
 
Also, even if we move them the 28th halflings east then they'll still be in long range of the enemy for their rifles. Medium range would be one turn space away, in which case going SE and the E wouldn't be much different if the 28th halflings in both hypothetical positions were to start firing in medium range.
The main difference is that moving them SE,E rather than E,E has them cover less of the advancing infantry. Due to being one tile more away from the infantry line, the medium ranged attack of the 28th can reach fewer positions the enemy infantry would occupy. In plain terms, you miss out on a turn of firing if the enemy moves next turn and you're less able to fire on already weakened units due to range limitations. The main question isn't just "could they fire at some part of the enemy line?", but "can they put pressure on most of the enemy line?". Since we work with concentrated artillery fire, this is especially vital for trying to rout a specific unit.
 
Back
Top