Remove ads

Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 6: Fatal Fires Flagrantly Fry Frantic Friends, Family

uju32 said:
THAT's why I'm voting for him.
Note that he was recovered ie there's a body.
If he's just brain dead, he's a prime target.

Remember that Wormverse humans are biological constructs; no soul.
Depends on how the GM rules it, but I see no reason why we shouldn't check.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You're reaching even more than those who expressed an interest in putting forth Bonesaw as an Exalt candidate.
 
Carrnage said:
You are aware that bonesaw has done several heroic deeds in canon, she's killed heroes created artifact equivalents and even brought back the dead, non-heroic mortals can't do that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Her motive is based on pleasing her parental figure because of horrible, horrible trauma. The heroism needed for Exaltation isn't about accomplishments - it's about the willingness to stand up in moments when most people would sit down and shut up.

Riley might meet the standard for Exaltation, but Bonesaw? Eh.
 
WizardOne said:
Panacea is ruled by her fear.

She's not heroic. Not by any definition of the word.

She actively hates healing people, its destroyed her. She won't heal brains because she's afraid of the temptation.

She's a coward, and not only a coward, but a selfish one.

Her fear is so overpowering that she won't even try to save her own adopted father. Her fear is so powerful it turns her into a monster. And not the 'epic' kind of monster.
The pathetic kind.

I don't like the character, and I strongly dislike Panacea as a person. If we HAD to choose between Bonesaw and Panacea for an exaltation, I'd choose Bonesaw, because her redemption was genuinely impressive.

Panacea just sort of... gave up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well now, that escalated quickly. I say again, Bonesaw's "redemption" required a bullshit set of circumstances to even occur in the first place.
 
The problem is that this information is in their brains, which are probably going to be too damaged to extract the necessary information from.
 
We need to see how Panacea shakes out after the dust settles. Her motivations may well change after she processes her sister's death and we get to see the kind of person she is now that she's not stuck getting whammied by Glory Girl's aura almost constantly. Probably wouldn't hurt if we managed to get her away from her ass of a mother either.

But yeah, if her motivation is to validate her own existence rather than to help the people around her out of altruistic reasons than she doesn't qualify as an Exaltation candidate. Armsmaster, Miss Militia, Chevalier, Tattetale, a few others. There actually aren't that many good candidates once you really look at them.

And leet took Behemoth's Plot Device Beam of Death and Chafeage point blank, he is the very definition of dead. That bit about his smoking armor was from an Omake.
 
plus the bit that gets harvested and used to make someone into an Alchemical Exalted is the soul gem on their forehead. WHICH NOBODY ELSE HAS. Therefor it is impossible for us to attempt to exalt someone post-mortem
 
.IronSun. said:
plus the bit that gets harvested and used to make someone into an Alchemical Exalted is the soul gem on their forehead. WHICH NOBODY ELSE HAS. Therefor it is impossible for us to attempt to exalt someone post-mortem
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not really. The soul gem got implanted and absorbed our memories. If we took someone who's brain was still in perfect condition, the blank soul would probably get the right memories. The question is how fast the brain degrades.
 
Bonesaw is exaltation material just not alchemical material. Her mad science thing is totally Twilight material. She survived as a small child without any inherent brute powers to keep her safe surrounded by some the most dangerous people in the world, that's totally Lunar material. Infernals select solar canidates in a moment of weakness after a failure so that works as well.

She however was most definitely bad for her community, so no alchemical exaltation for her.

I wouldn't give any exaltations to Sophia exept a small maybe for lunar. She doesn't have the ambition and willingness to face the impossible that you need to be a solar. She is a danger to the community with her issues so she wouldn't be a good candidate for Alchemical exalted. Some of the castes can be ruthless but it's always for a greater good not their own sadism motivating them. Skitter not Shadow Stalker. We never see anything that would make her work as a lunar but we don't have any hard proof of how she would react so that one is a maybe. There are certainly some lunars who have similar worldviews as her so that wouldn't be a barrier.
 
You talk about your contempt for Panacea's fear of turning into a monster preventing her from fixing brains in a way that makes me assume you don't really understand that kind of fear. Do you have any friends who grew up with an abusive alcoholic for a parent? I know a guy who is so terrified of turning into his father that he refuses to even be in the same building with alcohol if he can help it, let alone sling back a beer at a cookout with his friends.

Now you can make the [valid] point that a traumatic fear of becoming a raging alcoholic is in no way a reasonable comparison to Panacea's fear of turning into a monster preventing her from messing with brains. The thing about fear though is that IT'S NOT REASONABLE, especially not at the levels we're talking about. And it doesn't help when you factor in the points that if she does succumb to temptation the damage she could cause would be far beyond that of a single abusive parent by several orders of magnitude, as well as the niggling little voice in the back of her head whispering 'power corrupts.'


Don't get me wrong, you have a good reason to dislike her character and every right to do so. Just don't expect to sway too many people to your school of thought
 
WizardOne said:
Panacea? A girl ruled by her fears who runs from terror to terror and just accepts when the world shits on her?

That isn't someone who I can imagine exalting. She isn't worthy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Based on this, Taylor never should have been exalted then. Why are you here then, when by proxy you disagree with how this quest even started?
 
Panacea has spent her entire life getting beaten on emotionally by her family. She is a young woman who between her mother treating her more like a heal-bot than a person and her sister's aura beating into her that she is NOTHING compared to her sister has never had much of an opportunity to develop any sense of self-worth, let alone develop any moral fiber or positive personal convictions. She is a textbook example of an abused child, and you can't reasonably hold her mindset against her. She is terrified of becoming a monster because she's already half convinced she IS one already, and from that perspective her healing could be seen as either a form of penance, an attempt to prove to herself that she isn't the monster she's terrified of becoming, or both.

Her character is flat-out tragic, but with her sister's corrosive aura out of the picture, if we can get her away from the rest of her family and get her some professional help she could have very good odds of reaching her potential and becoming a damn good Exaltation candidate.

However, that day is a LONG way off, especially if we don't 'help' the process along*. I agree that we need to be looking for people who make good candidates NOW, and that list is distressingly short.

*Despite my concerns of going for the full mind control suite, in cases like this if the subject actually ASKS for our intervention and can be shown to be of sound mind and fully understands the ramifications I wouldn't be opposed to using it.
 
landcollector said:
Based on this, Taylor never should have been exalted then. Why are you here then, when by proxy you disagree with how this quest even started?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Have you read Canon Worm? How about how this quest started? In both cases you see Taylor growing and becoming stronger than what she was, while Panacea only seems to break down.
 
uju32 said:
Why?
It goes to prove what's possible in this cosmology.
You might as well say that we shouldn't use the exploits of canon Alchemicals to establish a baseline for what they're capable of.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If what a person does is what qualifies them for an exaltation, if they have never done here whereas they have in canon, then it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is what they have done so far in this quest.

Establishing a baseline is fine and dandy, but it doesn't matter if said parahumans haven't done anything to match said baseline as of the latest update.
 
Overmind said:
Have you read Canon Worm? How about how this quest started? In both cases you see Taylor growing and becoming stronger than what she was, while Panacea only seems to break down.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Why yes, I have read Canon Worm. I have been involved in this quest since almost the beginning. As for Panacea breaking down here, how would you react to finding out that a family member of yours just got f-ing vaporized? Probably the same damn way. I agree Panacea isn't a viable Exalt candidate RIGHT NOW, but she could be later. The Panacea condemners/Bonesaw apologists popping up here make no sense.
 
uju32 said:
???
Read my statement again, and check what I was replying to.
I was suggesting that it might be possible to exalt brain dead, or otherwise unrevivable parahumans, and used canon instances of it being done by parahumans to suggest that it's possible for an Alchemical/Auto-kun.

I said nothing about picking Exalts based on things they haven't done.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Your first quoting of me seems to state otherwise.
 
AkatsukiLeader13 said:
Actually no, we're choosing souls we think will be worthy of Exalting. Not every soul they select to become an Alchemical is deemed worthy to become one. It's entirely possible that we could choose a dozen souls and only one comes back. Perhaps none will come back.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We aren't choosing souls, we are choosing people with skillsets we think are useful because Worm!Humanity don't have souls.
 
uju32 said:
I'm no particularly advocate of Exalting Panacea, but this?
Bullshit.

Girl has been one of the most important capes Wormverse threw up.
Despite a home life that can be charitably described as dysfunctional.
Through her confusion, her doubt, her fear, she continued to do good, to both mundanes and parahumans.

When she decided she might not be safe to be around, she voluntarily committed herself to jail.
Quiet heroism is not flashy, but it is heroism all the same.
So no, I want people like that on my side.

People who realize they have limits.
Who don't believe their own propaganda.
Who can work through their own doubts and fear.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
With this reasoning we can theorize that she is even MORE eligible than Taylor was at the beginning of this quest. While Bonesaw's redemption came through some stupidly improbable events, Panacea's actions were a result of her inherent nature.

I'm still iffy about trying to Exalt her before she gets some serious therapy though.
 
I'd like to correct something people are misinterpreting:

Alchemicals are usually MADE, not Chosen. After a long string of mortal heroism of a specific flavor, a soulgem containing all those past souls is stuck into a blank Alchemical body. Voice of Authority is a self-centered ass, yes, but he still does his job for his nation. Conviction is the name of the game for Alchemicals.

Most importantly, you have to remember that Alchemicals are (usually) the very definition of state-created supersoldiers designed for a very specific need/task. Thus, here are some questions you should be asking yourself regarding choosing Candidates:

- Does this person have the willpower to catalyze an Alchemical form? (Does this person have high Willpower and/or Conviction stats?)
- Will the person follow Taylor's guidance/orders/administrating? (A positive Intimacy towards Taylor would likely help here.)
- Will this person be fine with allowing mortals to rule? (Alchemicals are servants of the state, not lords or tyrants.)
- Does this person's skill set (and personality) help the Assembly? (You should really determine what sort of general abilities you want for your party, as the other new Alchemicals will NOT be gaining XP as quickly as Taylor has been!)
- Will this person accept Glorious Bullshit Robot Communism into their hearts? (Are they unsatisfied with the way things are now to the point where they would accept the fundamental rewriting of reality itself?)

These are the sorts of questions to answer via extended Investigations into someone's background and face-to-face talks. Going off Canon personalities is going to be a risky proposition from here on out as we are now wildly off the rails and Butterfly Effect is in effect.
 
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top