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Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 6: Fatal Fires Flagrantly Fry Frantic Friends, Family

Can we not restart that whole existintialist reincarnation crap with Taylor's identity again? It serves absolutely no purpose. We know that this isn't how normal Exalteds work but we also know that Autochthon made us special. Heck if we were a regular Exalt we'd be the size of a Warstrider given our likely essence rating. Whether EOC is Taylor or just THINKS she's Taylor is up to Grom and our arguing over it distracts us from more important concerns.
Menma said:
More scared of us then someone who can and will torture and kill her? why?. Worst we will do is just kill her after all.
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I'm not talking about scaring her into cooperation or make her think we're willing to kill her. I want to RECRUIT HER. A decent amount of intimidation plus the whole kited the Hero Killer thing could convince her that we can take on Coil. If we can find some way to actually keep her safe while we move on Coil she'll likely switch sides. There's also the fact that if Coil knows we know who she really is he'll probably kill her to cover his ass. If she sides with us he'll probably kill her. If she stays with Coil he WILL kill her now that she's a liability.
Menma said:
Facing an endbringer is nothing like fighting Coil- only Cauldron knows his real identity, and it would be trivial for him to slip away even if TT told us where his base is.
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My point is that if an Endbringer has to struggle to kill us than Coil can't even muss our hair. If Lisa tells us where he is the trick would be to overwhelm him so he can't slip away. If we know that he can't see us in his possible futures (might have this Quest and the Solar!Taylor on mixed up on this point) than that makes our job immeasurably easier. Setting up a plan that makes it impossible for him to slip away once we attack him would still be difficult, but not impossible. The trick would be to force him to collapse his timelines and then hit him before he can branch out again, or to force him to over use his powers and then drop the boom on him when he overextends himself. Such a plan would be VERY difficult, but we're pretty much the best tactician on the planet at this point. I'm pretty sure we could pull it off.
Menma said:
Lisa stopped showing up at school around the time coil tried to assassinate us.
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Crap, I'd forgotten that bit. This complicates things.
Menma said:
We have NO idea what she figured out, if she even figured out anything.
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I understand that have no idea what she figured out, but from her standpoint it was obviously an epic revelation. With a little luck that might help us, but I admit that's just something I hope will happen and not something I'm actually planning.


@Doomlord9: I'm hoping Coil will go to ground. If he decides to try to go on the offensive again or clean up shop then all bets are off and we have to salvage what we can.
 
sainen said:
wrong, taylor is E3 right now and Alchemicals go colossus at E6
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I can't find our Essence rating on the first page, but I was going off the bonus we were getting from IED. The book says the boost is X(Essence value) and our boost is 6 that's what I thought we were at. I knew Grom was tweaking it somewhere, but apparently I guessed the wrong spot.
 
Oops. I really need to read over the Charm lists again.
 
Okay, will people stop going all "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime!"/"The law must be upheld!"/"hard men making hard decisions" and grimly announcing that Danny Hebert committed a CRIME which makes him CRIMINAL which means he has to PAY FOR IT, by going to JAIL.

Actually engage your brain for once.

Don't get biased by trying to over-compensate too hard for the fact that Danny is a family member and that things are personal for us here.

Think about, you know... circumstances and actual responsibility of who-done-it.

Think about why Danny did what he did, and how he was convinced into doing what he did.

Hint: a powerful thinker was involved.

What do you think that means in terms of Danny's decision-making process? Could they, perhaps... be highly compromised? No shit!

Somebody who gets social-fu'd by a powerful Thinker or Master (hi, Jack Slash) has less agency and thus less responsibility for their actions.


If you guys stopped and took the time to think about this responsibly and reasonably instead of going for the kneejerk of "He did it! Get'im! He's a criminal!" you'd probably realize that situations can be complicated or nuanced.

EIDOLON
For some Alchemicals, memory-echoes of more than simply past heroism endure into their present incarnation. They remember quiet moments spent with friends and lovers, the tedium of daily labor or other defining moments of their previous lives as heroic mortals. Moreover, such Alchemicals can learn to immerse themselves in these memories, reliving the experience of wearing mortal skin and living a mortal life. An Alchemical with this Background draws on her brightest and strongest memories from her past lives to simulate the effects of a meaningful scene of human contact (see "Losing Clarity," p. 110), with the same mechanical benefits, a number of times per story equal to her rating in this Background.
Trait Effects:
○○○○○ (None) - Either your character retains no special connection to her previous lives, or she has embraced the machine wholeheartedly.
●○○○○ - If she strains, your character can remember the faces of a few past lovers.
●●○○○ - With a bit of effort, your character can match names to the faces of some of her friends and children from previous incarnations.
●●●○○ - Incidents in daily Autochthonian life often remind your character of quiet moments in her former lives.
●●●●○ - When she sleeps, your character relives memories from centuries ago as often as any other sort of dream, and usually with great vividness.
●●●●● - Your character has almost complete recall of several of her most notable incarnations and remembers significant emotional moments from most others.
Changes For This Quest:
You have Eidolon 3, and thus may only call upon it 3 times each Arc to reduce Clarity, but otherwise it acts as Eidolon 5 in terms of your recollection of Taylor Hebert's life prior to her exaltation (since she is the only soul in her soulgem).
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●●●●● - Your character has almost complete recall of several of her most notable incarnations and remembers significant emotional moments from most others.
You have Eidolon 3, and thus may only call upon it 3 times each Arc to reduce Clarity, but otherwise it acts as Eidolon 5 in terms of your recollection of Taylor Hebert's life prior to her exaltation (since she is the only soul in her soulgem).
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No, we pretty much have all of Taylor Hebert's memories.

Consider that in Worm Earth, people are the sum of their physical existence. Think about how resurrection would work in Worm.

Then think about what that means for "identity" for a person in that state.

Now, consider Taylor's current existence. Consider if it hits all the same qualifications of continuation/resurrection/restore-from-backup that any other Worm!Earth human would if they were resurrected/uploaded/cloned+memories.
 
Azure said:
That's nice alliteration and all but it might help if he put "Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 7:" before it so people actually know what the fuck the thread is about.
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Yeah, I fat-fingered that. Trying to get a mod to fix it, but doing anything from my phone on this forum is a right pain.
 
Except I actually agree with him. Danny has screwed up badly, but he was manipulated into it without much reasonable chance of resisting, and the fact that we never actually spoke to him while he was locked up downstairs after he spent a week being tormented by the belief that his daughter was dead and his eventual Trigger and meltdown likely exacerbated that. I've argued that we had good reasons for forgetting about him, but we DID still leave him by himself. When I talk about slapping the stupid out of him what I mean is overcoming the mental conditioning and subterfuge he's been subjected to.

It doesn't help matters that Taylor really did die, and while by Earth Bet standards EOD is Taylor reincarnated/resurrected, while we ARE Taylor we're technically not the Taylor he knew. Combined with the fact that they've been pretty distant for the last year and his mental image of her is likely how he remembers her from before his wife died, the changes are especially jarring.
 
.IronSun. said:
Except I actually agree with him. Danny has screwed up badly, but he was manipulated into it without much reasonable chance of resisting, and the fact that we never actually spoke to him while he was locked up downstairs after he spent a week being tormented by the belief that his daughter was dead and his eventual Trigger and meltdown likely exacerbated that. I've argued that we had good reasons for forgetting about him, but we DID still leave him by himself. When I talk about slapping the stupid out of him what I mean is overcoming the mental conditioning and subterfuge he's been subjected to.

It doesn't help matters that Taylor really did die, and while by Earth Bet standards EOD is Taylor reincarnated/resurrected, while we ARE Taylor we're technically not the Taylor he knew. Combined with the fact that they've been pretty distant for the last year and his mental image of her is likely how he remembers her from before his wife died, the changes are especially jarring.
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And the stress and heartbreak Taylor will have inflicted upon her as Danny denies that she is his daughter and utters death threats at her will drive up her Clarity reinforcing his manipulated views, etc. It's a damned feedback loop of anguish on both sides. I'd rather avoid that entirely, thanks.
 
landcollector said:
And the stress and heartbreak Taylor will have inflicted upon her as Danny denies that she is his daughter and utters death threats at her will drive up her Clarity reinforcing his manipulated views, etc. It's a damned feedback loop of anguish on both sides. I'd rather avoid that entirely, thanks.
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good point, but we do need to handle this eventually and the sooner we do the better. Our high Clarity likely also makes talking to Panacea a bad idea.
 
.IronSun. said:
good point, but we do need to handle this eventually and the sooner we do the better. Our high Clarity likely also makes talking to Panacea a bad idea.
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True. We need to speed our impending hospital stay socializing with surviving capes to drive down our Clarity in between meditation sessions before approaching Amy.
 
uju32 said:
Are we doing this again?

We are never technically the person we were five minutes ago, a day ago.
If a person has amnesia, do they become someone else?
A person is more than just their meat chassis.
If we remember being Taylor, with a new body and a one week interval of unconsciousness, who can say different?

Now Danny has a case for diminished capacity on account of Thinker mindfucking.
And we should be able to cut him a deal because 1) He didn't accomplish anything and 2)The attack was on us.
Hopefully.
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I'm not talking about existentialist 'we die every second' crap. Exalted Taylor has pieces missing, pieces added and pieces tweaked. And the fact remains that Danny's mental image of Taylor is drastically different from the Taylor that's running around with the capes.
 
landcollector said:
True. We need to speed our impending hospital stay socializing with surviving capes to drive down our Clarity in between meditation sessions before approaching Amy.
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I think we need to do that Eidolon thing and drop our Clarity a bit first. If talking to our friends just freaks them out because of how cold we're acting because of our Clarity we'll be doing more harm than good.
 
Z000 said:
i have a question, why did Coil release Noelle in the first place ???
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To kill Taylor. He wants her dead really, really badly. He already broke the truce by releasing Danny on us, so this is barely any more extreme, just a lot more visible. He's also an ass who's so arrogant about himself that he thinks he can get away with breaking the truce whenever he wants with no consequences just like in canon.
 
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