Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane

Pre-Vote Running Tally: Who Are Your Top 3 Choices For Orichalcum?


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Remote Sensory Drone.
Taylor's SoPA range does not extend to New York from Philadelphia, so it's not a bug drone. I presume she's using Essence vision mode as well(which the charm could use, but not a tinkertech drone).
Thanks.
I can only assume that the drone shrinks/grows as needed, as an eyeball is not the size of a grape-fruit. And I assume the hologram is thematic/cosmetic and she could just use it as a one way camera instead of video chat.
 
Eh. That may help somewhat with motes, but not WP.
Each Level 2 stunt can regen 1 willpower instead of 4 motes, if the PC chooses.
And social stunts are a thing.
So yes, she'd burn out of WP eventually, but much slower than it would first seem.
I don't think it was outright stated, but she's spent the equivalent period of time around Armsmaster all day
So it was.
Good catch.

Well the easiest way to deal with him is send someone he can't detect up close, and reprogram him to restore his victims to reasonably independent functionality(I wouldn't try to revert them with his powers, since it's unlikely he knows what their personalities were like well enough) and disarm any bombs he remembers.
Pretty much.

While she's not going to recover willpower THAT quickly, I'd also note that once they observe the qualities of her Sanctum, we could box up all the Simurgh overstayers and use the Sanctum's imprisonment feature to put them into stasis, while she fixes each one and release them as willpower regenerates.
Do note that she can choose to recover 1wp per Level 2 stunt, instead of regenning motes.
So the situation there is not as bad as it may first seem.

yeah I can see how that would happen
(Dexterity + Dodge + Specialty + Essence)/2.
(2 + 1+ 0 + 3)/2 = 3DV
I blame budget XP constraints that at the time I argued were enough
All that dodge training. Wasted.
Not really an issue; as long as she stunts her dodge, she gets an extra +2DV, bringing her to 5 DDV.
And because she has Radiant Iconography Array, she can ALWAYS stunt her dodge.

Just means that she looks less competent in practice than in the field.
Trying to figure out if Taylor's new drone is just more fancy tinker-tech,
Yes.

Remote Sensory Drone.
Remote Sensory Drone has a range of [Essence]miles; NYC is way out of range.
That's a tinkertech drone; she's just likely using her full 2nd Perception Augmentation to boost her already transhuman Perception 6.
 
Saki has pretty amusing perspectives compared to Prayer. Also, needs a threadmark on the new segment.
 
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Yeah, thats true. The problem is that WE know Saki won't be going around torturing people, implanting false personalities, reprogramming everyone and so on. But do the people in the story know that?

Yes, of course they will. Because Saki will say so, and they will believe her because lol Manipulation 7.
 
Yes, of course they will. Because Saki will say so, and they will believe her because lol Manipulation 7.
If that doesn't scream POD people then I don't know what does. That's exactly the problem, only people in the general vicinity will believe her and the rest would develop paranoia thinking everyone else has been mastered... Sure, we might be able to convince a director that what we are doing is legit but then everyone else who wasn't in that conversation would consider him mastered.
 
It's going to be really awkward when Missy and Aisha both turn up with Husk-Sculpting Apparatus isn't it?
Since HSA does allow you to increase your Appearance, you could have both of them as well as Saki walking around with App 7.
I doubt it'd be able to raise past human norms unless boosted by 4th Augs though. Since, well - otherwise, it renders 4th Augs (almost) completely redundant. And technically, it doesn't say anything about changing App (and, more relevant, I believe Grom only talked about using it to lower App).
? Like, it does look really wrong to me not capitalised.
If that doesn't scream POD people then I don't know what does. That's exactly the problem, only people in the general vicinity will believe her and the rest would develop paranoia thinking everyone else has been mastered... Sure, we might be able to convince a director that what we are doing is legit but then everyone else who wasn't in that conversation would consider him mastered.
Nah, that's what the Charms to target organisations are for. Nothing could possibly go wrong with Mastering the entire PRT :rolleyes:.
 
"Now that I think about it, Tatsu," Miss Militia frowns, giving you a considering glance, "I need to report to Legend, Chevalier, and Director Uriel first before I can agree to staying in New York much longer. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have… agreed so easily."
PRT: The Master/Stranger Protocols, they do nothing! :o:mad:

"Bladedancer could counter that strike, young one," Prayer intones, her helmet poking into your field of view from the top as she leans down from above.

Her tone is as cheerful as you've ever heard it.

"So, no."
I see that Sirkalla may have acquired Kali's love of tort- uh training. Yes, training.

… all of that, and it's still a wash.

You've somehow forgotten how to dodge.
Ominous cackling is heard in the background.

If Saki is astounded that she can do kung fu now, imagine her reaction when she gets PLM installed and can do bullshit magic kung fu.

Erm, I missed the reference with the blue thing.
I did as well.
 
If that doesn't scream POD people then I don't know what does. That's exactly the problem, only people in the general vicinity will believe her and the rest would develop paranoia thinking everyone else has been mastered... Sure, we might be able to convince a director that what we are doing is legit but then everyone else who wasn't in that conversation would consider him mastered.
...not quite. Her social skills work just fine on a mass combat scale as well. They will agree as well, it works on entire organizations, at a moderate penalty. They would need to constantly recheck their decisions to realize it's even happening.

Erm, I missed the reference with the blue thing.


I dunno what the blue thing was about either, but I was still amused.
Say it out loud after putting your mind in the gutter like a fic writing fujoshi.

Then take your mind back out of the gutter because she's underage.
 
The closest I can think of is this:

But that doesn't quite work with that syntax
 
I mean seriously, f they had left those three charms in VBoS?
You would have people using Unobstructed Blow(4m for a Piercing tag and halving enemy DV) with a fucking grand daiklave(Damage 11L, Overwhelming 4, Acc +1, Speed 5) as a form weapon. At Essence 2.
After perfects had been errata'd to between 8m and 12m cost.
Yeah no; that's a perfect or die situation if I ever saw one.

It gets even more preposterous when you consider that the core charm of VBoS, Blade of the Battlemaiden, allows the martial artist to stack the starmetal MM bonus on top of whatever other MM bonus the grand killstick was already rocking.
I am no expert at charm design, but it seems to me that it got moved away from VBoS for very good reason.
Not exactly. Unobstructed Blow, Horrific Wreath and Crimson Palm Counterstrike aren't part of Throne Shadow Style, they're extension Charms Sidereals can learn. As such, they're considered Sidereal Charms and are not subject to the restrictions of Throne Shadow Style. Instead they're just restricted to any use of the Martial Arts Ability. A Sidereal who's mastered Violet Bier of Sorrows Style is perfectly capable of applying Unobstructed Blow to its form weapons, as they are able to treat the form weapons as unarmed attacks.
 
Well the easiest way to deal with him is send someone he can't detect up close, and reprogram him to restore his victims to reasonably independent functionality(I wouldn't try to revert them with his powers, since it's unlikely he knows what their personalities were like well enough) and disarm any bombs he remembers.

Saki could probably do it though. Granted, the WP cost is annoying, but its been pointed out that stunts would work. And undoing brainwashing like this would probably get us more trust from PRT and make our nasty spike thing look a bit better.

This is a positive. Excessive aggression is one of the things you can treat with that.

Yeah, but I was talking about going DOWN to 1. 1 dot of virtue is abnormal I believe, while 2 is average. So yeah, taking a Valor 5, Temperance 1 guy to more normal to Valor 2 and Temperance 2 would probably help that person significantly. Pushing one (or worse, all) virtues to 1 on a victim would be pretty damaging though.

While SV has an enormous level of belief in sanctity of mind, there are going to be quite a lot of people willing to pay to end a self admitted toxic personality spiral that they can't dig themselves out of.

Yeah, but odds are these issues can mostly be dealt with virtue modification and/or intimacy removal. A drug addict could likely be more or less cured with increase of temperance, removal of addiction intimacy, and a injection of exalted healing to help with withdrawal.

Particularly for former abused children and the like, the ability to construct something good, even if they know it's fake, to remember is going to be a valuable part of recovery. This is important for the Heartbroken, who're in possession of emotional control powers, were born and raised in a toxic environment, and generally doomed from the start due to that.

Yeah, this is kinda what I brought up with Bonesaw, when we talked about potentially just erasing all memories of Jack Slash and her life among S9. Heck, it occurs to me that in theory, she might even give "permission" if Saki fully socially attacked her.

While she's not going to recover willpower THAT quickly, I'd also note that once they observe the qualities of her Sanctum, we could box up all the Simurgh overstayers and use the Sanctum's imprisonment feature to put them into stasis, while she fixes each one and release them as willpower regenerates.

Are they in stasis though, or just contained? I know Gromweld stated that it forcibly keeps people alive even in cases where someone should die (so a C53 separated from his shard will die if Taylor uses optical cloak on him, but Sakis charm will keep him alive). However did he ever say that it would keep people in stasis, or just immobile? I mean if people are imprisoned, utterly immobilized, and yet fully aware and forcibly kept alive, then that would be a pretty horrific experience.

Bonus in that it screws up Simurgh's plotting even more, since from the point they get slurped up, they don't show up accurately on precog until they come out.

Yeah, though arguably having multiple alchemicals going totemic anima banners and letting go of Loom-Server Migration during the battle would presumably mess up her precog pretty badly already. The anti-endbringer armor will also not help. Also, Taylors expanded SoPA range (especially with drones), means Simurgh will be drowning in butterflies both literally and figuratively.

On the other hand, I could see this causing her to make more "obvious" Simurgh bombs. Less "Rube Goldberg machine" that relies on complex prediction that this person will be at exactly the right place at exactly the right time to achieve exactly the right effect (since Essence use basically guarantees he won't be there, making that "bomb" a dud), and more "When you see this important person, kill him". Or "In 2 weeks, go berserk and try to kill everyone around you".


I had to read that several times to get it.

I did not get it at all. :p


Trying to figure out if Taylor's new drone is just more fancy tinker-tech, or an essence formed drone that Iris flash forged. Or maybe that was one of the eye drone charm?

Can't be a normal Remote Sensory Drone due to distance limit of 4 miles. Nor could it be a SoPA drone since it has even less range (especially now). Most likely its tinkertech, though I guess in theory Iris could have made something up. Tinkertech seems more likely though, since we know flash forging magic materials is apparently VERY expensive.


Actually no. Pretender's possession is completely undetectable, he passed as Alexandria perfectly after some coaching.

Ah, OK. Was he limited to just one possession, or was he basically just poor mans version of E5 Taylor. Regardless while nasty, its still nothing comparable to Saki being able to easily and quickly do permanent things to someone and then just leave.

Go back to classic Stranger protocols: Test for knowledge that Saki had no reason to be in possession of.

Given that all C53s are from alternate dimensions, there would be no way for PRT to check if the memories Saki restored are real or not. Yeah, it would work on known local victims, but then PRT could probably just assume that in such cases Saki was being extra carefull and not doing any obvious memory tampering.

Heck, if Saki starts restoring memories of Case53s, PRT could easily become suspicious, since all of them conveniently have recovered memories from other earths and don't have anything that could prove to the PRT that the memories are real. We know its because Cauldron has Doormaker and mostly harvested from other Earths. But if you don't know, that, it is kinda suspicious that every case of recovered C53 memory has no proof of its validity.

I dunno, I guess there could be some who bought the vial and mutated massively? But majority are probably like Prayer, and not from Earth-Bet, making independent verification impossible.


does Tatsu have enough space once her Charms are Arrayed to plug in some of the cool charms stored in Lord Grasp's Mini-Vat?
if she doesn't have enough space to plug every thing we want from there in, then TBP is the first charm I think should be to unplugged to make room.

Well, it is pretty handy charm for combat. But its true that its not Sakis primary objective, so if Taylor for example makes her some Perfect tinkertech weapon, I would be fine with getting rid of TBP. Especially if it won't work great with whatever MA style she has. And because the ability to send people to her prison dimension does make its usage slightly obsolete (if she is close enough to slash the target with TBP, she can probably just banish the target instead).


Nah, that's what the Charms to target organisations are for. Nothing could possibly go wrong with Mastering the entire PRT :rolleyes:.

I am actually kinda hoping that maybe we could get this past them if we are slow and carefull. Remember that Prayer will presumably be promoted since Backing 5 won, so she will be one of those making the major decisions and helping decide where the organisation goes. We can do stuff such as having Prayer do passionate speech and such, and push toward a desired objective. Then have Saki speak in favor of that and do obvious PR (shh. its a decoy.), while also using the organization charm rarely enough not to be too suspicious, and any changes could easily be assumed to be natural. Or atleast "natural" in the sense that the super-PR person helped one of the leaders campaign for it and wrote the speeches with Linguistics 5 (presumably we will get all those to 5 at some point) and so on.

The obvious APP7, socialize/performance 5 thing might be used to hide the more unnatural effects. Especially with Prayer and Taylor both helping to hide things. If we get a higher Ally status with Legend (which might be smart considering what Gromweld said about it being able to Backing background), this is even more true.

Obviously the organization changed because a member of the Triumvirate and the known hero that helped beat S9 campaigned for the changes so much with the help of a known socialite. Nothing unnatural there. No sirree. No need to worry, no masters capable of altering entire organizations here.
 
Not exactly. Unobstructed Blow, Horrific Wreath and Crimson Palm Counterstrike aren't part of Throne Shadow Style, they're extension Charms Sidereals can learn. As such, they're considered Sidereal Charms and are not subject to the restrictions of Throne Shadow Style. Instead they're just restricted to any use of the Martial Arts Ability. A Sidereal who's mastered Violet Bier of Sorrows Style is perfectly capable of applying Unobstructed Blow to its form weapons, as they are able to treat the form weapons as unarmed attacks.
...Definitely seems to be part of TTS. I mean, unless there's another Scroll of Errata, Horrific Wreath has Throne Shadow Form as a pre-req, and all are listed under Throne Shadow Style. And Sids still being able to access them doesn't really apply too much as good a reason to not deny them to randoms practicing VBoS (which is what moving them out of VBoS would do), since they wouldn't be able to access Sid expansion Charms (or TTS without added difficulty and jumping through hoops with regards to form weapons).
Are they in stasis though, or just contained? I know Gromweld stated that it forcibly keeps people alive even in cases where someone should die (so a C53 separated from his shard will die if Taylor uses optical cloak on him, but Sakis charm will keep him alive). However did he ever say that it would keep people in stasis, or just immobile? I mean if people are imprisoned, utterly immobilized, and yet fully aware and forcibly kept alive, then that would be a pretty horrific experience.
From memory, how it works is they take a penalty every [length of time], and if that penalty exceeds their dice pool, they're knocked unconscious and stay that way until released. So I do believe 'stasis' is applicable, yes.
On the other hand, I could see this causing her to make more "obvious" Simurgh bombs. Less "Rube Goldberg machine" that relies on complex prediction that this person will be at exactly the right place at exactly the right time to achieve exactly the right effect (since Essence use basically guarantees he won't be there, making that "bomb" a dud), and more "When you see this important person, kill him". Or "In 2 weeks, go berserk and try to kill everyone around you".
Pretty sure she does that at current anyway (I mean, I definitely remember stuff like that happening in the actual Ziz fight, and I'm almost positive that was some of her Ziz bombs - just randoms who'd suddenly go nuts and kill their family/go on a rampage etc).
I am actually kinda hoping that maybe we could get this past them if we are slow and carefull. Remember that Prayer will presumably be promoted since Backing 5 won, so she will be one of those making the major decisions and helping decide where the organisation goes. We can do stuff such as having Prayer do passionate speech and such, and push toward a desired objective. Then have Saki speak in favor of that and do obvious PR (shh. its a decoy.), while also using the organization charm rarely enough not to be too suspicious, and any changes could easily be assumed to be natural. Or atleast "natural" in the sense that the super-PR person helped one of the leaders campaign for it and wrote the speeches with Linguistics 5 (presumably we will get all those to 5 at some point) and so on.

The obvious APP7, socialize/performance 5 thing might be used to hide the more unnatural effects. Especially with Prayer and Taylor both helping to hide things. If we get a higher Ally status with Legend (which might be smart considering what Gromweld said about it being able to Backing background), this is even more true.

Obviously the organization changed because a member of the Triumvirate and the known hero that helped beat S9 campaigned for the changes so much with the help of a known socialite. Nothing unnatural there.
It was (partly) tongue in cheek. Basically this:
No sirree. No need to worry, no masters capable of altering entire organizations here.
 
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This is pure mindrape.

Eh, if you do it against their will sure. But if the guy gives his full consent with full understanding (and I mean actual consent, rather than to App7 Saki suggesting it), I see it more as being medical treatment. Do you consider it mindrape for therapists to help people get over their problems? Is it rape when people with mental issues willingly take drugs that alter their brain chemistry and behaviour to help them be happier and deal with mental illnesses?
 
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Do you consider it mindrape for therapists to help people get over their problems? Is it rape when people with mental issues willingly take drugs that alter their brain chemistry and behaviour to help them be happier?
False equivalences, given that neither involves using effective magic to effectively permanently alter someone's personality/Virtues.
 
There are changes and changes.

If you extract three virtue dots of a person, the person coming at the other side won't be the one that came in.

It's borderline personality murder.
 
False equivalences, given that neither involves using effective magic to effectively permanently alter someone's personality/Virtues.

I don't really see the difference between it being magic or just longterm "Natural Mental Influence" (in other words, therapy).

To me, whats important is the informed consent of the patient. Who the hell cares if its "magic" (though frankly, Essence usage is arguably just a different kind of science)? So long as the guy suffering gives his free unmanipulated consent and understands whats going to happen, I see no difference between "magic" or any other treatment option.

Heck, magic is actually quite a bit better in this instance, since therapy and drugs are difficult and slow to work.


There are changes and changes.

If you extract three virtue dots of a person, the person coming at the other side won't be the one that came in.

It's borderline personality murder.

Fine, reduce it less then.
 
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