Against the Tide - Germany 1932.

[KarvokaQueen]

(pending GM approval of course)

Click to shrink...

Approved, good luck!

 

[Gnarker]

Though going by the elapsed time I doubt we're looking at more than a few hundred, maybe the low thousands taking all of Bavaria into account.

Click to shrink...

Given some of the numbers in earlier updates, we're well into the tens of thousands of casualties for Munich alone. Granted, the smaller part of that is fatalities, but you can expect a good number of permanent injury too.


In light of the above information:

[X] Straighten the lines and dig in. You are in absolutely no mood to cede ground to the Nazis, given the rumors of that they do in the areas they occupy. However, even you recognize the necessity of pulling back the most exposed units lest they are cut off. At any rate, the Nazis are on the offensive now. Offensives against fortified positions were always when your station was the fullest during the war, and perhaps a little vindictively, you see no reason why the SA shouldn't learn this lesson too.
-[X] Preferred tactics should make maximum use of our defensive positions (fortifications and barricades), superior training and local knowledge (traps and ambushes), and our heavy mobile forces (rapid reinforcement for flagging sectors, opportunistic counterattacks). Also rotate fresh forces from the Marienplatz for exhausted frontline units as necessary and feasible.

Yes, it cedes momentum, but we're outnumbered and still partially caught off guard. That ship has sailed. Current aim for me would be to stabilize our position and to bleed the enemy, in preparation for a counterattack next turn.

[X] Do a full audit of the camp, and your staff. You won't get much done medically, but you need to replace losses, and figure out who has died. Your doctors still here can hopefully handle the constant intake of casualties.
[X] Sleep. Even after unwinding last night you are still desperately short on sleep. You are being worn down, badly. And a blunted tool is no use to anyone.

 

[JuliusClonkus]

[X] Lightening offensive. Your friend Franz very vocally tells you that his men are mostly unscathed by the fighting, and with flame throwers, grenades, and converted armored cars, he is confident that he can smash a hole in the fascist line, and reach the main Reichswehr barracks. It's a risky proposition, but how strong fortifications can the fascists really setup in a day? And bringing the Weltkreig veterans of the Reichswehr under direct control would be a huge boon.

[X] Do a full audit of the camp, and your staff. You won't get much done medically, but you need to replace losses, and figure out who has died. Your doctors still here can hopefully handle the constant intake of casualties.
[X] Sleep. Even after unwinding last night you are still desperately short on sleep. You are being worn down, badly. And a blunted tool is no use to anyone.

I went through the quest again and noticed that the Reichswehr was also under attack. That's bound to make them "loyal". Cooperating with government forces to clear out the fascists will likely look good with those currently in charge, and as such pushing towards them to establish contact may well be worth it. Consider my earlier vote rescinded.

 

[Arlos]

My thought is that the sooner we end this, the better for everyone(and germany manpower).
If we could surround pocket of SA we could maybe even get them to surrender.
Everyone should be running out of ammunition very soon anyways.
This just probably going to sputter out soon, mostly because germany right now isn't even capable of fighting a civil war... or everyone is going to be stupid and we will end up fighting in melee, who knows really?

 

[Taut_Templar]

[X] A fighting retreat to the city center, draw the SA forwards and let them take ground, but for every meter make them pay in blood in the form of ambushes, booby-traps, or even just barricades to slow them down.

[X] Do a full audit of the camp, and your staff. You won't get much done medically, but you need to replace losses, and figure out who has died. Your doctors still here can hopefully handle the constant intake of casualties

[X] Sleep. Even after unwinding last night you are still desperately short on sleep. You are being worn down, badly. And a blunted tool is no use to anyone.

 

[kellanved]

[X] Lightening offensive. Your friend Franz very vocally tells you that his men are mostly unscathed by the fighting, and with flame throwers, grenades, and converted armored cars, he is confident that he can smash a hole in the fascist line, and reach the main Reichswehr barracks. It's a risky proposition, but how strong fortifications can the fascists really setup in a day? And bringing the Weltkreig veterans of the Reichswehr under direct control would be a huge boon.

[X] Do a full audit of the camp, and your staff. You won't get much done medically, but you need to replace losses, and figure out who has died. Your doctors still here can hopefully handle the constant intake of casualties.

[x] Take care of Kathe. She looks after you as much as she is able, it's sometimes easy to forget she is just as affected by all this as you are. You will repay her kindness with interest.

 

[JuliusClonkus]

[X] Lightening offensive. Your friend Franz very vocally tells you that his men are mostly unscathed by the fighting, and with flame throwers, grenades, and converted armored cars, he is confident that he can smash a hole in the fascist line, and reach the main Reichswehr barracks. It's a risky proposition, but how strong fortifications can the fascists really setup in a day? And bringing the Weltkreig veterans of the Reichswehr under direct control would be a huge boon.

[X] Do a full audit of the camp, and your staff. You won't get much done medically, but you need to replace losses, and figure out who has died. Your doctors still here can hopefully handle the constant intake of casualties.

[x] Take care of Kathe. She looks after you as much as she is able, it's sometimes easy to forget she is just as affected by all this as you are. You will repay her kindness with interest.

Click to shrink...

You know, I was thinking to take care of Kathe at first, but I kinda took it as a given that the 'Sleep' option would take us to whatever safe room she was in anyway, meaning there's some more time for talk while trying to rest.

 

[Prince Ire]

[X] Lightening offensive. Your friend Franz very vocally tells you that his men are mostly unscathed by the fighting, and with flame throwers, grenades, and converted armored cars, he is confident that he can smash a hole in the fascist line, and reach the main Reichswehr barracks. It's a risky proposition, but how strong fortifications can the fascists really setup in a day? And bringing the Weltkreig veterans of the Reichswehr under direct control would be a huge boon.

[X] Do a full audit of the camp, and your staff. You won't get much done medically, but you need to replace losses, and figure out who has died. Your doctors still here can hopefully handle the constant intake of casualties.
[X] Sleep. Even after unwinding last night you are still desperately short on sleep. You are being worn down, badly. And a blunted tool is no use to anyone.

 

[Valerian]

[X] Lightening offensive. Your friend Franz very vocally tells you that his men are mostly unscathed by the fighting, and with flame throwers, grenades, and converted armored cars, he is confident that he can smash a hole in the fascist line, and reach the main Reichswehr barracks. It's a risky proposition, but how strong fortifications can the fascists really setup in a day? And bringing the Weltkreig veterans of the Reichswehr under direct control would be a huge boon.

[X] Do a full audit of the camp, and your staff. You won't get much done medically, but you need to replace losses, and figure out who has died. Your doctors still here can hopefully handle the constant intake of casualties.
[X] Sleep. Even after unwinding last night you are still desperately short on sleep. You are being worn down, badly. And a blunted tool is no use to anyone.


Initiative is a thing and something that we need to wrest ahold of and maintain with an iron grip.

The SA can't be strong everywhere.

 

[Arlos]

[X] Lightening offensive. Your friend Franz very vocally tells you that his men are mostly unscathed by the fighting, and with flame throwers, grenades, and converted armored cars, he is confident that he can smash a hole in the fascist line, and reach the main Reichswehr barracks. It's a risky proposition, but how strong fortifications can the fascists really setup in a day? And bringing the Weltkreig veterans of the Reichswehr under direct control would be a huge boon.

[X] Do a full audit of the camp, and your staff. You won't get much done medically, but you need to replace losses, and figure out who has died. Your doctors still here can hopefully handle the constant intake of casualties.
[X] Sleep. Even after unwinding last night you are still desperately short on sleep. You are being worn down, badly. And a blunted tool is no use to anyone.


Initiative is a thing and something that we need to wrest ahold of and maintain with an iron grip.

The SA can't be strong everywhere.

Click to shrink...

As I said, everyone should be running out of bullets right about now, I'd like to see what the SA can do against a numerically superior sturmtruppen charge while having to count their bullet.

 

[JuliusClonkus]

As I said, everyone should be running out of bullets right about now, I'd like to see what the SA can do against a numerically superior sturmtruppen charge while having to count their bullet.

Click to shrink...

Especially if we're sending fresh second line troops against them, which is what it sounds like.

 

[Valerian]

Especially if we're sending fresh second line troops against them, which is what it sounds like.

Click to shrink...

Sounds like Franz' core of veteran stormtroopers are up to bat.

That's a lot of concentrated, high morale, very mobile trouble heading for the SA lines.

I agree on the manpower issue though.

Another week of this and Bavaria will be gutted for soldiers for years.

The fact that both sides are disorganized seems to actually be increasing the casualties rather than stemming them.

Probably because both sides are well matched and over-eager. The lack of decisive advantage is just eating away at everyone's reserves.

Reminds me of how the first months of WW1 were the bloodiest, despite most of the weapon systems it was known for being nonexistent or sparse at that point.

 

[KarvokaQueen]

So, given the vote has been a landslide, I'm going to close early.

What did people think of the update?

 

[Arlos]

Well it was good, A bit bloody but good.

I'd just like to point out that the SA were absolutely trash soldiers. in fact calling them soldier would be insulting soldiers all around the world; they were street thug. Shit equipment, shit training, shit tactics.

Just for information

 

[Valerian]

Well it was good, A bit bloody but good.

I'd just like to point out that the SA were absolutely trash soldiers. in fact calling them soldier would be insulting soldiers all around the world; they were street thug. Shit equipment, shit training, shit tactics.

Just for information

Click to shrink...

True, but the other militias were not much better.

SA has been having a bad time against that regular Army Division whose barracks they are trying to take.

What did people think of the update?

Click to shrink...

Good stuff, not able to give much that's constructive due to my happy bias from the update existing in the first place.

 

[Claytonimor]

Well it was good, A bit bloody but good.

I'd just like to point out that the SA were absolutely trash soldiers. in fact calling them soldier would be insulting soldiers all around the world; they were street thug. Shit equipment, shit training, shit tactics.

Just for information

Click to shrink...

Well, I mean, there is a reason there were all purged by the SS later on.

 

[Guilliman]

[X] A fighting retreat to the city center, draw the SA forwards and let them take ground, but for every meter make them pay in blood in the form of ambushes, booby-traps, or even just barricades to slow them down.



[X] Do a full audit of the camp, and your staff. You won't get much done medically, but you need to replace losses, and figure out who has died. Your doctors still here can hopefully handle the constant intake of casualties

[X] Sleep. Even after unwinding last night you are still desperately short on sleep. You are being worn down, badly. And a blunted tool is no use to anyone.

​

 

[bookwyrm]

You know Hugo hated Nazis before, but after this (war flashbacks and all), and the following months treating children burned from the firebombs and pensioners shot by ricochets and undisciplined fire, I wonder how his redoubled fury would cause him to examine his beliefs and axioms. The fact that the main difference between the Stahlhelm and SA is that one is a veteran's group that existed before the other as opposed to much hard political disagreements... well Hugo is going to have a few restless nights about the foot soldiers he treats and befriends espouse the same ideals as the madmen that have done as much damage to Munich as any crazed Marxist.

His paternal feelings for the common man slugging it through these miserable times would likely resolve this tension into something colored by the fascists needing to be restrained and directed by cooler and wiser heads who can keep the unwashed masses from fulfilling urges that they would regret. (Thus it's not his friendly local fascist thugs who are at fault they are simply misguided) This would quell a bit of his cognitive dissonance, but conversely people don;t like to be patronized, especially the more invested they are in their paramilitary faction and the higher up in the ranks they are. Combined with the natural follow up that there has to be someone who is misguiding and misleading the poor victims then I think as soon as this "fuck Nazis" desperate alliance collapses then the resulting conflict with the hierarchy of the Stahlhelm and the Hugenbergites and so on would push Hugo to the center with Rupprecht and the SDR.

 

[Arlos]

You know Hugo hated Nazis before, but after this (war flashbacks and all), and the following months treating children burned from the firebombs and pensioners shot by ricochets and undisciplined fire, I wonder how his redoubled fury would cause him to examine his beliefs and axioms. The fact that the main difference between the Stahlhelm and SA is that one is a veteran's group that existed before the other as opposed to much hard political disagreements... well Hugo is going to have a few restless nights about the foot soldiers he treats and befriends espouse the same ideals as the madmen that have done as much damage to Munich as any crazed Marxist.

His paternal feelings for the common man slugging it through these miserable times would likely resolve this tension into something colored by the fascists needing to be restrained and directed by cooler and wiser heads who can keep the unwashed masses from fulfilling urges that they would regret. (Thus it's not his friendly local fascist thugs who are at fault they are simply misguided) This would quell a bit of his cognitive dissonance, but conversely people don;t like to be patronized, especially the more invested they are in their paramilitary faction and the higher up in the ranks they are. Combined with the natural follow up that there has to be someone who is misguiding and misleading the poor victims then I think as soon as this "fuck Nazis" desperate alliance collapses then the resulting conflict with the hierarchy of the Stahlhelm and the Hugenbergites and so on would push Hugo to the center with Rupprecht and the SDR.

Click to shrink...

I profoundly disagree especially with the way you somehow make a connection between the Stahlhelm and the SA who frankly have nothing to do with each other, at all and certainly hope that is not where we are going. His belief are fine, just the people using them that are the problem.
But we are all entitled to our own opinion here.
Ps: there also isn't going to be months of this, it will end by the end of the week at the very most.

 

[Fission Battery]

I'm just hoping the fallout from this takes Hitler down. I don't think he could bounce back from this, especially in 1932. The only reason he was brought into the coalition was it was believed he could be controlled, but here's his private army starting a fucking revolution and being unable to stop them.

The traditional conservatives at this would probably not want Hitler anywhere near government, especially the army. The Knight of Long Knives was a purge of the SA after Rohm kept making threats about starting a revolution if the army didn't get put under his control, and no one was happy with that suggestion. Here, the bastard's killing army personal and veterans, and started an uprising.

We just need to make sure our party and higher ups can live. It goes without saying but if we die our party dies with us. I think we might be able to survive politically, even if we're pushed out of Munich and flee to the country side, f worse comes to worse.

As for the plan, armoured cars with flamethrowers sound very useful for taking out infantry positions. Hopefully we don't roll low and the cars catch fire or blow up. Even if the counter offensive isn't too successful it disrupts the SA and prevents them from further entrenching.

 

[Arlos]

I'm just hoping the fallout from this takes Hitler down. I don't think he could bounce back from this, especially in 1932. The only reason he was brought into the coalition was it was believed he could be controlled, but here's his private army starting a fucking revolution and being unable to stop them.

The traditional conservatives at this would probably not want Hitler anywhere near government, especially the army. The Knight of Long Knives was a purge of the SA after Rohm kept making threats about starting a revolution if the army didn't get put under his control, and no one was happy with that suggestion. Here, the bastard's killing army personal and veterans, and started an uprising.

We just need to make sure our party and higher ups can live. It goes without saying but if we die our party dies with us. I think we might be able to survive politically, even if we're pushed out of Munich and flee to the country side, f worse comes to worse.

As for the plan, armoured cars with flamethrowers sound very useful for taking out infantry positions. Hopefully we don't roll low and the cars catch fire or blow up. Even if the counter offensive isn't too successful it disrupts the SA and prevents them from further entrenching.

Click to shrink...

Yep, Rohm thought they could become the new German army, but everyone including Hitler knew that the SA was shit and that making an army out of them was impossible anytime soon, Hitler preferred to use the Professional Army with the actual know how of war to rebuild the German Army wih a Core of professional.
He was also Gay, which didn't help PR at the time.
This should definitely make Hitler a non entity politically, at least for a while, he's still going to get a lot of popular support though.
What worries me is what will happen if Hitler decide to throw caution to the wind and just go full revolution on our ass, with the Big Red bear north a full civil war definitely isn't something we want.

 

[Valerian]

So, while doubtless several of the posters on this thread are already aware of it, I did a little bit of a wiki walk and pulled up the following info.

In Jan 1932, the SA branch of the Nazi party claimed some 400,000 members.

By January of 1933 with Hitler in office, it had surged to 2,000,000.

Currently the German Army, the Reichswehr numbers only 100,000 men (as specified by the Treaty of Versailles), made up of 7 Infantry and 3 Cavalry Divisions.

However, due to its drastic reduction in size, the Reichswehr could afford to be picky, and while small it was considered an elite organization, if lacking in the modern force multipliers of the time (planes and tanks)

Given how late in 1932 we are, I'm quite sure that the SA is well over a million strong.

Quite daunting.

In perspective I looked up other Wiemar republic paramilitary group memberships in that time period.

Reichsbanner: (members of the SPD, BVP and the DDP) In the Spring of 1931 they claimed 250,000 members. I'm sure that number has changed a bit due to the effects of the quest, but I suspect that is still a good ball-park

Roter Frontkämpferbund: (aka the RFB) A far-left socialist group, claimed 130,000 members in 1929.

Young German Order: (affliated with the DStP) Claimed almost 300,000 members in the late 20s.

Stahlhelm: (Members of the DNVP) Claimed 500,000 members in 1930.

So if all of those paramilitary groups could put aside their differences (heh) and work to fight the SA, both sides would have roughly comparable numbers in the case of a full blown Civil War.

Meanwhile, the Reichswehr would be woefully inadequate to ensure blanket peace. However, it would be a considerable force multiplier to whichever faction it chose to back.

 

[Arlos]

So, while doubtless several of the posters on this thread are already aware of it, I did a little bit of a wiki walk and pulled up the following info.

In Jan 1932, the SA branch of the Nazi party claimed some 400,000 members.

By January of 1933 with Hitler in office, it had surged to 2,000,000.

Currently the German Army, the Reichswehr numbers only 100,000 men (as specified by the Treaty of Versailles), made up of 7 Infantry and 3 Cavalry Divisions.

However, due to its drastic reduction in size, the Reichswehr could afford to be picky, and while small it was considered an elite organization, if lacking in the modern force multipliers of the time (planes and tanks)

Given how late in 1932 we are, I'm quite sure that the SA is well over a million strong.

Quite daunting.

In perspective I looked up other Wiemar republic paramilitary group memberships in that time period.

Reichsbanner: (members of the SPD, BVP and the DDP) In the Spring of 1931 they claimed 250,000 members. I'm sure that number has changed a bit due to the effects of the quest, but I suspect that is still a good ball-park

Roter Frontkämpferbund: (aka the RFB) A far-left socialist group claimed 130,000 members in 1929.

Young German Order: (affliated with the DStP) Claimed almost 300,000 members in the late 20s.

Stahlhelm: (Members of the DNVP) Claimed 500,000 members in 1930.

So if all of those paramilitary groups could put aside their differences (heh) and work to fight the SA, both sides would have roughly comparable numbers in the case of a full blown Civil War.

Meanwhile, the Reichswehr would be woefully inadequate to ensure blanket peace. However, it would be a considerable force multiplier to whichever faction it chose to back.

Click to shrink...

I really, really, REALLY hope we can avoid a full blown civil war, it would completely destroy the country and leave us vulnerable for the time Ahead.
Anyways, though I am not sure about it, all those paramilitary don't have enough gun for everyone, and have only enough supply for 1 or 2 day of conflict.

 

[Valerian]

I really, really, REALLY hope we can avoid a full blown civil war, it would completely destroy the country and leave us vulnerable for the time Ahead.
Anyways, though I am not sure about it, all those paramilitary don't have enough gun for everyone, and have only enough supply for 1 or 2 day of conflict.

Click to shrink...

.....I'm not sure the quest supports you in this, given the several days of high intensity combat happening in Munich.
But yes, that is the hope.

 

[Hazard]

Although a civil war would leave Germany vulnerable, how vulnerable it would leave Germany is more of a question. Not all civil wars take years and kill hundreds of thousands along with devastating cities and countryside. Funnily enough we actually have little to fear of the British and French; they will stay aside unless their reparations are threatened (and civil war does threaten their reparations), but they're not going to intercede.

The Soviet Union though? They are going to intercede, And they have... opinions on the structure of Europe.