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After the Ashes: A Fire Nation Chancellor Quest

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[X] "She's my niece - a close association is dangerous, I know, but it might prove worthwhile here. She associates with the national associations here in Caldera, not Ozai's, the youth ones; I know you're not fond of the modernist movement, but it might be useful to attach them to our government, let some new blood into the court in order to take attention away from reliable hands such as yourself and I. It might make the conservatives uncomfortable, all the talk of meritocracy and youth, but I wouldn't mind throwing up a distraction to take attention away from us in these trying times…"
[X] "She's an associate of the Finance Minister - that alone is a good in, but I'm told that she also carries a fair amount of weight with the admiralty club and the mercantile concerns here in Caldera. The mercantilist clique is well established in court, though I find it unlikely that our new liege will share Ozai's disfavor; her appointment might prove a sufficient reinforcement to raise them back as a counterbalance to Ozai's clique and the militarists. Even more importantly, I imagine that she'll understand the importance of maintaining our economic position in these uncertain times; after all, if things falter too much, we risk far more than what is ultimately a minor dynastic squabble…"
[X] "Revisionist" (Uncertain Clique, Personal Interest, Moderate Divergence)

Colonial just feels a bit too played out to my tastes, so I'm switching to back either alternative. I personally think it'd be more interesting to be an actual insider in a horrific state apparatus, suddenly forced to adapt to an outside impetus for change beyond what we envisioned from the start, perhaps even changes our character does not agree with.
 
Granite said:
Alright folks! There's been a pretty good back and forth so far and, unless there are any particular objections, I'm setting the end of the vote for four hours from now. As a general assurance, I've endeavored to ensure that any of the options I've presented are both viable and fun; if anyone has questions, I'm happy to answer them :)
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Given that Colonials are in the lead currently, I have a few points I want clarified on what they are like:
  • The information box describes them as more liberal, but does that mean by our standards or just that they are more Azulon-like than Ozai-like?
  • How do the Colonials (which are said to be mainly elites) treat and interact with the common people of the colonies (especially Earth peoples)?
  • If the colonies are removed from Fire Nation control, what would happen to the Colonial faction? Would they just disappear from Fire National politics, or would they just become fantasy Cuban-Americans?
  • On a related note (assuming the former option is the one chosen), would the Chancellor be allowed to change factions, or would we have to switch to a new character?
  • And most important to me personally, do Colonials actually care about any issues in the Fire Nation other than getting themselves (and the Colonies by extension) more respect? I think I would have issues sticking with the game if they are as one-note as I am fearing.
 
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Limabot said:
  • The information box describes them as more liberal, but does that mean by our standards or just that they are more Azulon-like than Ozai-like?
  • How do the Colonials (which are said to be mainly elites) treat and interact with the common people of the colonies (especially Earth peoples)?
  • If the colonies are removed from Fire Nation control, what would happen to the Colonial faction? Would they just disappear from Fire National politics, or would they just become fantasy Cuban-Americans?
  • On a related note (assuming the former option is the one chosen), would the Chancellor be allowed to change factions, or would we have to switch to a new character?
  • And most important to me personally, do Colonials actually care about any issues in the Fire Nation other than getting themselves (and the Colonies by extension) more respect? I think I would have issues sticking with the game if they are as one-note as I am fearing.
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  • The colonial education system is both less developed, due to neglect, and less directly controlled, something that has allowed for the emergence of an intelligentsia in the colonies that is not as heavily propagandized.
  • This is a bigger question but I'll endeavor to answer it simply here: in short, there are three general 'types' of territories held by the Fire Nation. The Occupied Lands are the territories still administered by the military and are typically subjected to looting and more vicious forms of direct exploitation; this is around sixty percent of the territory currently held. The New Territories are lands that have been held for decades and have sizable enclaves of Fire Nation colonists: businesses and properties are often seized to supply them with profitable work, and the local populations are typically subject to heavy exploitation and even slavery in certain areas. The Old Colonies have traditionally held more autonomy, though Ozai has sought to leash them due to their perceived inherent disloyalty - a decent comparison would be the mestizo upper class in New Spain who were still restrained beneath appointees from Spain. Those with Fire Nation descent are typically going to be wealthier and afforded more opportunities, though society is not formally segregated and intermarriage is quite common. Notably, under Ozai, there has been a solidification of top-down restrictions, though his attentions have typically been consumed elsewhere.
  • It would not be a great situation for members of the colonial faction; the situation with the colonies will be explored in greater depth in coming chapters, but rest assured, none of these are 'trap' options. A colonial character will have an initial interest in retaining the Old Colonies but no particular ties to the New Territories or Occupied Lands, both of which have settlers drawn from the core Fire Nation.
  • That is possible, but the factions are generally going to be setting out the player character's political positions across the board. Those can change, either as a result of pragmatism or character development, but they should generally be seen as the genuinely held positions of the character.
  • Yes. This game will ultimately be focused on the Fire Nation and the faction options I've presented will all play into all aspects of that. You'll be dealing with issues of domestic and international politics, the economy and national finances, spiritual and legal matters, and most matters of state that extend from that. If they only had one thing going for them, I wouldn't have presented them as an option :p
 
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SectionXIII said:
Yeah, uh, I'd like to know what the soy sauce situation is like.
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It's currently under a pretty strict royal monopoly. Production and distribution is exclusively under the royal seal with the bulk of the profits going to the royal household. That sort of money is absent any overview and will be used for things like bribes, assassins, hedonism, and pocket money.
 
[X] "She's my niece - a close association is dangerous, I know, but it might prove worthwhile here. She associates with the national associations here in Caldera, not Ozai's, the youth ones; I know you're not fond of the modernist movement, but it might be useful to attach them to our government, let some new blood into the court in order to take attention away from reliable hands such as yourself and I. It might make the conservatives uncomfortable, all the talk of meritocracy and youth, but I wouldn't mind throwing up a distraction to take attention away from us in these trying times…"
[X] "She's an associate of the Finance Minister - that alone is a good in, but I'm told that she also carries a fair amount of weight with the admiralty club and the mercantile concerns here in Caldera. The mercantilist clique is well established in court, though I find it unlikely that our new liege will share Ozai's disfavor; her appointment might prove a sufficient reinforcement to raise them back as a counterbalance to Ozai's clique and the militarists. Even more importantly, I imagine that she'll understand the importance of maintaining our economic position in these uncertain times; after all, if things falter too much, we risk far more than what is ultimately a minor dynastic squabble…"
[X] "Moderate" (Loyal Clique, Personal Interest)
 
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  • Voting
    • Adhoc vote count started by Granite on Dec 14, 2024 at 1:59 AM, finished with 156 posts and 64 votes.
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  • Voting
    • Hmph. What say we show these ministers how much we "know our place"?

    We'll weave a web they'll never see until it's far too late.
     
    MonkeyTypewriter said:
    On the plus side, for all the internal problems the Fire Nation has from Ozai's idiocy I'm pretty sure that Long Feng caused if anything more issues. He seems to have focused almost entirely on Ba Sing Se's internal stability and neglected the wider warfront, something that the subordinate members of the Earth Kingdom probably noticed. Worse, from the standpoint of stability there are currently two obvious centers of power and legitimacy in the Earth Kingdom.

    The first is King Kui, the 52nd Earth King and the leader of the single most powerful member kingdom of the Earth Kingdom: Ba Sing Se. He's got an immense legacy and store of legitimacy to draw on, but he was a functional puppet of Long Feng for the entirety of his rule. Still, he's got inertia behind him and that's a powerful force.

    The second is Bumi, who as the King of Omashu is the leader of the second most powerful subcomponent of the Earth Kingdom and the birthplace of Earthbending. Additionally, on a personal level he's likely considered the single most powerful earthbender alive and a legendary hero who's served as the linchpin of Earth Kingdom resistance for most of a century. He also single handedly freed Omashu from Fire Nation occupation and was a key part of freeing Ba Sing Se.
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    Oh I'm willing to bet Ba Sing Se is a complete and utter fucking mess. Like the Dai Li capped the entire ruling council before they defected to Azula and then the King, a dude who literally spent his multi-decades of life in pampered decadence, has decided to wander the wildnerness with his pet bear. Okay children's cartoon means "reality ensues" were he just fucking dies in the middle of nowhere hasn't happened, but who's to say the current king has ever even seen an accurate map of his supposed kingdom? Not like Long Feng wanted the Kui to have two brain cells to rub together.

    Also the fact that there's a King Bumi alongside a King Kui makes me really wonder how much the parts of the EK that aren't directly Ba Sing Se agree with the conceit that they're totally all vassals/underlings of Ba Sing Se. It'd be one thing if the Earth King had some special title but someone claiming the same title as their supposed boss is hrm.

    tldr: would not be surprised if "who the fuck do we actually talk with" is a legit issue

    Profilozof said:
    I think that azula's decision to break the rules of Agni Kai (involving someone other than zuko) probably make her quite unpopular when news of what exactly happened during it
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    I am 99.999% sure people are gonna focus more on "filthy outsider cheated to give Zuko the win," and care about Azula trying to collateral some pissant water peasant damage approximately never.

    Earl Warren said:
    Im fairly sure The Republic had its own Military. They had a fleet ready to roll in when the Equalists roll up, a Fleet which continues in its role when it does become a democracy (which it would not if it was a force on loan from the other nations), and Bumi (Aangs Son) willingly joined it and had a number of adventures.
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    A top military official being the literal heir of a foreign nation kinndddaa proves the point that Republic City really had no actual sovereignty.

    Mazeka said:
    Hmph. What say we show these ministers how much we "know our place"?

    We'll weave a web they'll never see until it's far too late.
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    I will say you have a very rosey view of SV's collective political acumen. Also this DM is not afraid to quester's teeth in if they do silly ass stuff.

    Random Member said:
    What beliefs does a revisionist colonial have to make them revisionist?
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    Well vote says only "Moderate Divergence" so probably nothing as kooky as claiming some rando Earth King mountain is obviously the birthplace of the first true dragons and thus X City is not only a Right and Proper Part of the Fire Nation, but deserves to be the new capital too!
     
    More close vote than im used to,Well atleast we skipped the gender vote by just making female since SV would just decide to go for a woman anyway, at this point its part of site culture. Lets just hope we dont get into the other part of the site culture, which is shipping.
     
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    Earth benders are stubborn, prideful, and judgemental as all fuck. No one in Ba Song Se is going to have an ounce of the other rulers respect after 3 teenage girls snuck in past their vaunted security, subverted the Dai Li, and brought the whole damn city to heel without so much as a whimper. There's a reason the entire earth kingdom besides republic city and a few other independent towns succumbs to banditry and anarchy in the course of a few decades. Faith in their rulers is completely shot

    If Ange weren't trauma coping with the loss of his people and complex about unifying the four Nations, fixing it would have been his top priority, but he leverages his support and allies and the white lotus towards his pipe dream of republic city instead so he can balance out the awareness of 100 years of war and self serving agenda's with gratification of getting people of multiple nations to sort of live together in Republic city. Classic case of personal issues before duties.
     
    Modernist(and mercantilists) bros it's not over yet! To have any chance of functional future power base we will need to work with the modernist( and mercantilists) cause in the future anyways, especially considering many colonial voters are looking to pull out of the EK mainland thus wiping out the starting power base.

    We can still push the agenda our way!... We'll just need to spend a LOT of political capital on liberalizing Fire Nation also due to revisionist colonial roots.
     
    ChaddicusMaximus said:
    More close vote than im used to,Well atleast we skipped the gender vote by just making female since SV would just decide to go for a woman anyway, at this point its part of site culture. Lets just hope we dont get into the other part of the site culture, which is shipping.
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    Hold up. I for one want international trade. Shipping is kind of vital for the economy.
     
    A_Somebody said:
    Oh I'm willing to bet Ba Sing Se is a complete and utter fucking mess. Like the Dai Li capped the entire ruling council before they defected to Azula and then the King, a dude who literally spent his multi-decades of life in pampered decadence, has decided to wander the wildnerness with his pet bear. Okay children's cartoon means "reality ensues" were he just fucking dies in the middle of nowhere hasn't happened, but who's to say the current king has ever even seen an accurate map of his supposed kingdom? Not like Long Feng wanted the Kui to have two brain cells to rub together.

    Also the fact that there's a King Bumi alongside a King Kui makes me really wonder how much the parts of the EK that aren't directly Ba Sing Se agree with the conceit that they're totally all vassals/underlings of Ba Sing Se. It'd be one thing if the Earth King had some special title but someone claiming the same title as their supposed boss is hrm.
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    My guess is here, Long Feng made a deal with the generals, they get to run the EK, he runs Ba Sing Sae.

    However, the issue arises in that the generals fall into infighting and corrutption, possible with string pulled by Feng to make sure they're too busy to consider removing him.

    As for Kuei, honestly, I expect he's overreacting to being a weak puppet king by listneing to his generals, who think they can just roll up everything and it'll be all theirs again.
     
    So, after 100 years of war, what *is* the situation of the Fire Nation? Has the islands population shrunk since the time of Sozin due to battlefield losses and the lack of contact between men and women pushing the age of marriage back? How much of an instant recession will shutting down the catapult-factories and deathshipyards cause? How many industrial resources come from the earth nation anyways, and how many from the Old, New and Occupied colonial zones?

    And what about the other nations-is the Southern Water Tribe in any position to rebuild? Will the Earth Kingdom be resurgent, or remain in drunken, beaten repose?
     
    Random Member said:
    What beliefs does a revisionist colonial have to make them revisionist?
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    That's something you'll get to choose! The political scene in the colonies is often a reflection of that in the Fire Nation proper with its own quirks: in the next chapter, you'll have options as to which of the home isles factions your character has worked most closely with, something that will, of course, let you osmosis a few of their positions. A revisionist will have access to a few things outside of the immediate baseline, but won't be getting too out there.

    The 'personal interest' mentioned is a minor issue that you'll get to select, something that your character is passionate about but is not suuuuuper relevant in everyday politics. It could be anything from liberalizing the family code to modernizing the national apothecaries; things that are impactful and tell us something about the character without necessarily being a super controversial political statement.

    Profilozof said:
    I think that azula's decision to break the rules of Agni Kai (involving someone other than zuko) probably make her quite unpopular when news of what exactly happened during it
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    "What do you mean? She didn't break it, he just chose to jump in the way of her lightning!"

    Vehrec said:
    So, after 100 years of war, what *is* the situation of the Fire Nation? Has the islands population shrunk since the time of Sozin due to battlefield losses and the lack of contact between men and women pushing the age of marriage back? How much of an instant recession will shutting down the catapult-factories and deathshipyards cause? How many industrial resources come from the earth nation anyways, and how many from the Old, New and Occupied colonial zones?

    And what about the other nations-is the Southern Water Tribe in any position to rebuild? Will the Earth Kingdom be resurgent, or remain in drunken, beaten repose?
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    • The population has somewhat stagnated in the Homes Isles, though there's been some limited growth; the army is typically used to ensure full employment domestically, so its loss is probably going to create some pretty big unemployment issues, at least initially.
    • Winding down the war industry is also going to push a lot of people out of their jobs as it's been the center of the Fire Nation's economy for the last hundred and twenty years.
    • A massive amount of resources come from the territories in the Earth Nation: losing access to them wholesale would effectively crash the economy as the industry of the Fire Nation ceases to have affordable inputs.
    • The Old Colonies provide less in terms of raw resources because they've begun to industrialize themselves. The finished resources and tax base they provide is massive, and easily one of the largest in the Fire Nation as they've not been losing people to the War or Ozai's direct attention.
    • The New Territories are the primary resource center of the Fire Nation; the ethnic enclaves there are typically centered around major resource sites and work in conjunction with the military to use local workers (sometimes paid, sometimes slaves) to extract as much as possible. This is then shipped back home, supplying the homeland with plentiful and cheap resources.
    • The Occupied Lands are not being effectively exploited; while there are some military extraction sites and the like, the bulk of it is treated like petty personal fiefdoms for officers and their family members. It's not uncommon for boatloads of loot to be sent home as tribute though.
    • A broader amount of information about the broader national situation will be provided soon :)
     
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    Minor but potentially important detail: What does the Fire Nation know about what Aang did to Ozai? And do they have any particular position on the ethics of inflicting a fate worse than death?
     
    An idea that struck me. We are going to have to reduce the military, which is something that's going to offend one of the factions that is the most dangerous with a civil war, the militarists. I wonder if we might 'soften' that blow by raising the standards to a high enough level that a lot of the current army isn't going to be able to meet it. If you lose your job as a soldier because your whole regiment got shuttered it's easier to stick with your fellow rather than if you got cut because you didn't meet the cut. We'd be keeping the choicest soldiers, and Fire Nation society seems like it would disapprove less, even among militarists. It is also to be avoided to 'cut' units in its entirely, because those units might stick together.
     
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