Remove ads

After the Ashes: A Fire Nation Chancellor Quest

Voting is open
Reader mode
Adhoc vote count started by Granite on Dec 13, 2024 at 8:48 AM, finished with 74 posts and 48 votes.
Click to expand...
 
BoSPaladin said:
Alright question. What's everyone hoping for? Navigating the crisis is the immediate term issue. But Long term are there any goals or plans?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
My own hopes are to actually get the Fire Nation to do some proper decolonization and reparations to the rest of the world, as well as trying to reform the country itself into a more democratic and egalitarian direction. I think the Fire Nation getting to keep its colonies would basically be rewarding it for its imperialism (making them into an independent state would be the best solution, and I don't get why making the United Republic is so unpopular), and the fact that absolute monarchies are still the norm by Korra's time in canon kind of annoys me.
 
Ah, my position is quite the opposite.

I want the Colonial character to be very against the idea of decolonization, and push for the integration of the Colonies into the Fire Nation proper, with equal standing for all colonials regardless of national origins. Once that minefield is cleared with as few explosions as possible, I think the Chancellor would work with Zuko to institute egalitarian meritocratic reforms with the goal of re-tooling the Fire Nation into an industrial and political global hegemon, spreading Fire Nation ideals of self-improvement, social advancement and artistic expression while incorporating extra-national values to the improvement of the whole ("If it works in bending, it works in politics").

Sure, the invasions are over, but if they walk like Fire Nation, talk like Fire Nation, and build schools like Fire Nation, then really, we've already won.
 
bookworm702 said:
Ah, my position is quite the opposite.

I want the Colonial character to be very against the idea of decolonization, and push for the integration of the Colonies into the Fire Nation proper, with equal standing for all colonials regardless of national origins. Once that minefield is cleared with as few explosions as possible, I think the Chancellor would work with Zuko to institute egalitarian meritocratic reforms with the goal of re-tooling the Fire Nation into an industrial and political global hegemon, spreading Fire Nation ideals of self-improvement, social advancement and artistic expression while incorporating extra-national values to the improvement of the whole ("If it works in bending, it works in politics").

Sure, the invasions are over, but if they walk like Fire Nation, talk like Fire Nation, and build schools like Fire Nation, then really, we've already won.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, I mean, that'd be a very good way to get "equality" sure. And all of the people with generational in-built wealth, combined with generations of prejudice to strengthen their position, would just be in charge and use their money and power to exploit other people. Those people would be Firebenders.

Remember that when Zuko was talking about how people in the Colonies were working together, the example he used is an Earthbender shining the fucking shoes of a Firebender. That's "equality."
 
Limabot said:
My own hopes are to actually get the Fire Nation to do some proper decolonization and reparations to the rest of the world, as well as trying to reform the country itself into a more democratic and egalitarian direction. I think the Fire Nation getting to keep its colonies would basically be rewarding it for its imperialism (making them into an independent state would be the best solution, and I don't get why making the United Republic is so unpopular), and the fact that absolute monarchies are still the norm by Korra's time in canon kind of annoys me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not likely to happen. That'll at best, crash the economy and or get Zuko couped fast.

Bear in mind- A lot of these colonies have been FN partially for nearly a century. Abandoning them to the 'mercies' of the EK will not fly.

And the military that bled to secure them will also have things to say.

Keep in mind, reperations are nice, but Zuko's position is fragile at best.
 
Yes, obviously that kind of prejudice is part of the obstacles to colonial equality, and while that is something an Orthodox or Moderate Colonial Chancellor would accept, a Revisionist Chancellor will not. Kori, for example, will probably be a huge initial poster-girl of colonial integration, and it's not like the mayor's daughter is going to accept second-class citizenship for herself or any Earthbender/ Earth Kingdom national. Then later comes Sun, another mixed-national and the first recorded non-Avatar lavabender.

(Chancellor's note: find new words for "Earth Kingdom national" to more strongly tie Earth people to the Fire Nation.)

As for entrenched socio-economic leaders within the system...yeah, they always oppose change. That's eternal. That just makes them enemies, but they were always going to be that.
 
Last edited:
[X] "Radical" (Disloyal Clique, Substantial Divergence)

[X] "She's my niece - a close association is dangerous, I know, but it might prove worthwhile here. She associates with the national associations here in Caldera, not Ozai's, the youth ones; I know you're not fond of the modernist movement, but it might be useful to attach them to our government, let some new blood into the court in order to take attention away from reliable hands such as yourself and I. It might make the conservatives uncomfortable, all the talk of meritocracy and youth, but I wouldn't mind throwing up a distraction to take attention away from us in these trying times…"
 
[X] "She's my niece - a close association is dangerous, I know, but it might prove worthwhile here. She associates with the national associations here in Caldera, not Ozai's, the youth ones; I know you're not fond of the modernist movement, but it might be useful to attach them to our government, let some new blood into the court in order to take attention away from reliable hands such as yourself and I. It might make the conservatives uncomfortable, all the talk of meritocracy and youth, but I wouldn't mind throwing up a distraction to take attention away from us in these trying times…"

I suppose? Though I suspect that even the most radical will have a lot of brainworms of one kind or another. For instance they probably think that they invented the idea of "artistic expression" and "self-improvement" since even people in this thread that really should know better think so.
 
Night_stalker said:
Not likely to happen. That'll at best, crash the economy and or get Zuko couped fast.

Bear in mind- A lot of these colonies have been FN partially for nearly a century. Abandoning them to the 'mercies' of the EK will not fly.

And the military that bled to secure them will also have things to say.

Keep in mind, reperations are nice, but Zuko's position is fragile at best.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, the United Republic existed in canon, and Zuko was obviously not overthrown in that series. I get the quest will likely add a lot of stuff that isn't in the original franchise, but there's nothing here yet to make me think that giving the colonies independence would be a "game over" button.

Also, reparations would be a more long-term thing for when the Fire Nation finally got itself out of war footing and can afford to assist the reconstruction of the other nations.
 
Limabot said:
Well, the United Republic existed in canon, and Zuko was obviously not overthrown in that series. I get the quest will likely add a lot of stuff that isn't in the original franchise, but there's nothing here yet to make me think that giving the colonies independence would be a "game over" button.

Also, reparations would be a more long-term thing for when the Fire Nation finally got itself out of war footing and can afford to assist the reconstruction of the other nations.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, and that was likely a lot closer then expected.

It's not so much the colonies issue, as it is the 'giving away soil earned through blood, sweat and tears of the loyal Fire Nation soliders to the Earth Kingdom' by a newly risen Fire Lord who may have cheated in the Agni Kai with the aid of his Water Tribe concubine. Appearances matter, and if it doesn't appear he's all that concerned with FN issues other than giving it all away to other countries, it will end badly.
 
Fuck it.

[X] "She's my niece - a close association is dangerous, I know, but it might prove worthwhile here. She associates with the national associations here in Caldera, not Ozai's, the youth ones; I know you're not fond of the modernist movement, but it might be useful to attach them to our government, let some new blood into the court in order to take attention away from reliable hands such as yourself and I. It might make the conservatives uncomfortable, all the talk of meritocracy and youth, but I wouldn't mind throwing up a distraction to take attention away from us in these trying times…"
 
[X] "She's my niece - a close association is dangerous, I know, but it might prove worthwhile here. She associates with the national associations here in Caldera, not Ozai's, the youth ones; I know you're not fond of the modernist movement, but it might be useful to attach them to our government, let some new blood into the court in order to take attention away from reliable hands such as yourself and I. It might make the conservatives uncomfortable, all the talk of meritocracy and youth, but I wouldn't mind throwing up a distraction to take attention away from us in these trying times…"
[X] "Radical" (Disloyal Clique, Substantial Divergence)
 
Limabot said:
Well, the United Republic existed in canon, and Zuko was obviously not overthrown in that series. I get the quest will likely add a lot of stuff that isn't in the original franchise, but there's nothing here yet to make me think that giving the colonies independence would be a "game over" button.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

In the comics. There were fire nation earthbenders who tried to literally kill zuko for him trying to order the colonists to leave behind their homes and everything they'd ever known.

Eventually

Republic city was agreed upon. But that was very much a compromise which left no-one happy.
 
ok, I'm gonna do some strategic voting here. While a Mercantilist cantidate is my out and out favourite. A colonial representative does also seem interesting.

[X] "She's a relative of the governor in Yu Dao… don't give me that look, young man, I know she's mixed, but the Fire Lord seems to hold a misplaced sympathy for foreigners and mongrels. She's a colonial, so we can at least expect her to know her place and heed our counsel; their kind is always quick to listen to their betters when it comes to this sort of thing, especially since she'll be without other friends in the court. More importantly, we can expect her to advocate for the interests of the colonies, which would hopefully offer a starting point in talking the Fire Lord down from whatever foolishness he might be contemplating in the colonies.

[X] "She's an associate of the Finance Minister - that alone is a good in, but I'm told that she also carries a fair amount of weight with the admiralty club and the mercantile concerns here in Caldera. The mercantilist clique is well established in court, though I find it unlikely that our new liege will share Ozai's disfavor; her appointment might prove a sufficient reinforcement to raise them back as a counterbalance to Ozai's clique and the militarists. Even more importantly, I imagine that she'll understand the importance of maintaining our economic position in these uncertain times; after all, if things falter too much, we risk far more than what is ultimately a minor dynastic squabble…"

[X] "Moderate" (Loyal Clique, Personal Interest)
 
Last edited:
BoSPaladin said:
In the comics. There were fire nation earthbenders who tried to literally kill zuko for him trying to order the colonists to leave behind their homes and everything they'd ever known.

Eventually

Republic city was agreed upon. But that was very much a compromise which left no-one happy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Though to be clear we're going to have to have a long debate about how much of the comics are actually canon. Or rather the QM's going to have to, because the comics include some of the rawest and most absurd nonsense imaginable... I'm not even just talking about the Fire Nation here. Things like Ursa's backstory, their handling of Toph, the whole, "Everyone's got a place in the Fire Nation" while walking past a literal fucking shoeshine, a job famously one of the relatively few service jobs a black man was actually allowed to do.

Like, the comics are just a comedy of errors and poor writing, not even counting the weird Zutara shit with the Zuko/Mai pairing being blown up.
 
BoSPaladin said:
In the comics. There were fire nation earthbenders who tried to literally kill zuko for him trying to order the colonists to leave behind their homes and everything they'd ever known.

Eventually

Republic city was agreed upon. But that was very much a compromise which left no-one happy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I will note though, that's the main people who are trying to kill him. Not saying that this is well recieved when it originally goes down but it seems to be something he's at the very least surviving, and theoretically, could of gone through with if he really wanted to. Personally, I think its because, well, the Colonials really are a Separate people. They may of developed there own seperate and distinct identity to the Earth Kingdom but the FN see them as lesser and if push comes to shove, they have to let them go, they'll do it.
 
The Laurent said:
Everyone's got a place in the Fire Nation" while walking past a literal fucking shoeshine, a job famously one of the relatively few service jobs a black man was actually allowed to do.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's not the case though the Comic scene there is Katara pointing out "Seems its not equal for everyone" and Zuko going "It's not perfect". Baddish writing? Yeah. Still, I think the message of "Perhaps the best way to solve these problems isn't a series of retaliative Ethnic cleansing" is not in fact a bad one.
 
Earl Warren said:
That's not the case though the Comic scene there is Katara pointing out "Seems its not equal for everyone" and Zuko going "It's not perfect". Baddish writing? Yeah. Still, I think the message of "Perhaps the best way to solve these problems isn't a series of retaliative Ethnic cleansing" is not in fact a bad one.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think the United Republic is a very non-pleasing compromise, but I don't think it's honestly the worst outcome? It might be one of the best, which is miserable because it's not great. Like if we're talking about Ethnic divides, why SHOULD there not be nations that are neither Fire Nation nor Earth Kingdom?
 
The Laurent said:
Though to be clear we're going to have to have a long debate about how much of the comics are actually canon. Or rather the QM's going to have to, because the comics include some of the rawest and most absurd nonsense imaginable... I'm not even just talking about the Fire Nation here. Things like Ursa's backstory, their handling of Toph, the whole, "Everyone's got a place in the Fire Nation" while walking past a literal fucking shoeshine, a job famously one of the relatively few service jobs a black man was actually allowed to do.

Like, the comics are just a comedy of errors and poor writing, not even counting the weird Zutara shit with the Zuko/Mai pairing being blown up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The comics are going to stand in a place of limited semi-canon. I'm not deeply familiar with them, though I've read a few over the years. I'll be looting them for location names, the occasional side character, and a few post-canon events, but will otherwise be plotting stuff out on my own and building from y'alls actions.
 
Last edited:
[X] "She's a relative of the governor in Yu Dao… don't give me that look, young man, I know she's mixed, but the Fire Lord seems to hold a misplaced sympathy for foreigners and mongrels. She's a colonial, so we can at least expect her to know her place and heed our counsel; their kind is always quick to listen to their betters when it comes to this sort of thing, especially since she'll be without other friends in the court. More importantly, we can expect her to advocate for the interests of the colonies, which would hopefully offer a starting point in talking the Fire Lord down from whatever foolishness he might be contemplating in the colonies.
 
Logically speaking there are going to be Earthbenders or those descended from Earthbenders who have attachment to the Fire Nation. But it'd be actually absurd to then pretend that there wouldn't be another population who, treated as second-class citizens by a bunch of bigots who ended the war with another attempted genocide*, and thus probably don't want anything to do with the Fire Nation.

Hence the unhappy but not entirely outrageous compromise of, "Okay, neither."

*Well, it was childishly executed because it's a children's show, but what do you think burning down the Earth Kingdom MEANS?
 
Last edited:
The Laurent said:
I think the United Republic is a very non-pleasing compromise, but I don't think it's honestly the worst outcome? It might be one of the best, which is miserable because it's not great. Like if we're talking about Ethnic divides, why SHOULD there not be nations that are neither Fire Nation nor Earth Kingdom?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I agree, perhaps a Kids show's simplistic dynamics aren't the best for realism. As for the Comics, well they remain restrained by fundamentally being in the universe of a Kids Show with a Kid audience in mind, so Im inclined to forgive them for being simplistic. If I had to do it, my answer would be having the colonial story be a Equal Rights Movement which is taking force against the Fire Nation Colonial Elite while also having no interest in being absorbed by the Aristocratic Earth Kingdom who is inclined to replace one elite with another and also do a merry go round of Ethnic Cleansing, eventually ending with Aang forging a compromise for a United Republic.
 
The Laurent said:
Logically speaking there are going to be Earthbenders or those descended from Earthbenders who have attachment to the Fire Nation. But it'd be actually absurd to then pretend that there wouldn't be another population who, treated as second-class citizens by a bunch of bigots who ended the war with another attempted genocide*, and thus probably don't want anything to do with the Fire Nation.

Hence the unhappy but not entirely outrageous compromise of, "Okay, neither."

*Well, it was childishly executed because it's a children's show, but what do you think burning down the Earth Kingdom MEANS?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
For what its worth, Im inclined to think that was mainly a Ozai thing, which really weakened his support if not prompting anyone to overthrow him. Makes them swallowing Zuko make alot more sense. Not that your wrong or that they necessarily opposed due to the goodness of their heart (burning down the Earth Kingdom strikes me as perfectly Enviromentally sound, with in no way negative effects on the FN or for their colonization efforts.). But yeah your right, It was a good idea, poorly executed and I have trust in our Author to be a better executioner.
 
It's a big messy complex issue.

One the one hand the fire nation has waged a war of conquest. Committed literal genocide against the Air nomads. There are stories, parts of Aangs history that he doesn't even remember because he was literally just a child. To give just one example airball is *gone* and we never see it in Korra's time.

Then you've got the attempted genocide of the southern water tribe such that Katara was their last remaining free waterbender and she was largely self-taught until she reached the north Pole, and they almost refused to teach her anything but for healing too.

Then you've got parts of the 'earth kingdom'/occupied territories where simply being an earthbender is illegal and can see you imprisoned.

That doesn't even include Ozai's attempt to 'burn it all to ash'

The fire nation has carried out countless atrocities.

Traditional southern tribe waterbending is almost entirely gone. might in fact be gone considering how much Katara was self-taught, that much of her lessons included northern tribe styles and that she incorporated her own style into it as seen with her integrating earthbending forms as seen with her battle against Hama.

And ultimately, the world itself? Has been spiritually harmed by the war and the fire nation. And it's not an unreasonable stance to say, hey, the earth kingdom should get its land back.

But the needle we're trying to thread here? Ultimately? Is that. Yeah, no shit it's wrong for the fire nation to engage in ethnic cleansing against the earth kingdom.

But at the same time. It's a valid question to ask "Uhh, is segregation actually the right answer here?" Especially when in places like the oldest colonies you've got fire nation civilians who've never raised a weapon against the earth kingdom. Innocents, who are being punished for a war started generations ago.

At the core? We've got a simple mandate. Negotiate an end to the war. And we're in the situation where we actually have to figure out. Okay, well what do we actually want the post-war world to look like? And how do we get there?

And those aren't easy questions. Thus the current situation.
 
Earl Warren said:
For what its worth, Im inclined to think that was mainly a Ozai thing, which really weakened his support if not prompting anyone to overthrow him. Makes them swallowing Zuko make alot more sense. Not that your wrong or that they necessarily opposed due to the goodness of their heart (burning down the Earth Kingdom strikes me as perfectly Enviromentally sound, with in no way negative effects on the FN or for their colonization efforts.). But yeah your right, It was a good idea, poorly executed and I have trust in our Author to be a better executioner.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

...an Ozai thing.

Like, an operation like this requires planning at every level. Even if ultimately he's the driving force behind it, there were a lot of bureaucrats and soldiers alike who had to go along with this, a lot of Generals and High Officials who had to sign off on the, "Unlimited Global Genocide" plan.

That makes it seem more like a culmination of everything this new (well, it's a century old so not that new, but you know what I mean) Imperialistic Fire Nation stood for, especially when you remember that this isn't their first genocide.

...or their second, because I don't know how to tell you that I'm pretty sure that the Southern Water Tribe raids absolutely might check those boxes as a partial effort towards ultimate genocide and extermination of a people and a culture. E: And as BoSPaladin points out above, a largely successful one tbh.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top