- Location
- Omniverse #1345
This is extremely frustrating to me. I'm off for the night before I get upset, then. Cya.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
I don't like avenger because I feel as though it would encourage the thread to put our friends at risk in exchange for a power up. Can't help but feel that this could lead Hunger down some dark paths.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
And 7 arete and 3 picks is one of thousands of elixirs. Stop. being. greedy.
It works just as well with us being the one put at risk. And given the thread's tendencies that's inevitable. It's also useful in case Apocryphal decides to target our companions. Which it will. Because it's an asshole.
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Maybe Apocrypha will introduce us to a snake-themed teacher once we take Avenger? The Ring of Time knows its popular fiction, why would Apocrypha be less educated.
Rihaku
The Internet
Mm, I wouldn't oversell its applicability. Given Hunger's objectives it'll be useless at least half the time, likely more.
Indeed, as enemies become increasingly dangerous, prevention is better than cure! And cure's better than vengeance, for the most part... though Hunger might disagree.
No. I am willing to accept the "pretty likely" odds right now to buy the EFBs faster in the future, and I think that's less greedy and more economical. It's okay to have different risk/reward assessments, but that one is mine.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Avenger chains into a different EFB in the long run, so we effectively get a partial refund of its Arete cost.
Also, consider that while it is only situationally useful, the situations where it is useful are exactly the situations where we most seriously need a major powerup! Namely, enemies who succeed in seriously hurting us despite our other powers.
Remember how we used to think of our wraith form as an insurance card, because enemies who think they've "killed" us now have to deal with a new us all over again, one as powerful as the old if not more so, with different strengths and weaknesses?
This is like that, only without the drawback of being bloodless and dispel-sensitive, and also without the drawback of having to die first.
Anyone who seriously harms us, suddenly finds that we are about an order of magnitude powerful than we were before. We hit three times harder- more than that, actually, because of double STR. We gain a speed advantage against almost any foe who wasn't like the wind to us before, and compound our speed advantage against slower enemies. We shake off injuries that would previously have been very serious. All in all, very effective!
AND it dramatically eases the difficulty not only of this fight, but of the Ber fight, in the short term.
It's a powerup that's useless against feeble scrubs, and of limited value to us when we're on the offensive... but it's an excellent survivability power against strong enemies. And if Hunger's going to live 937 octillion years, he's gonna need a few of those.
Duquette7
I am Fire, and I am Rain
Ok, this changes the calculus for me a bit, because the above is just a bit to much risk right here at the end, too many ways we could roll badly with that thin a margin.
One thing about avenger I hadn't thought of was that it will apply to the Hidden Masters, eventually, and a boost that strong against the Hunger's most hated enemies is not wasted Arete.
Live and Grow Strong, for Time Burns.
Remember the words: Live and grow strong. Now is not the time to be saving Arete. Not against an opponent of this caliber. Not against Worldbreaker Sten.
Lets not collect a devastating complication here guys. We already have confirmation that we might lose an artifact. Saving a few Arete but losing pretty much one of our artifacts means we have to start over again spending several times what will be save.
Lets not collect a devastating complication here guys. We already have confirmation that we might lose an artifact. Saving a few Arete but losing pretty much one of our artifacts means we have to start over again spending several times what will be save.
Rihaku
The Internet
Mm, not quite. Remember, severely wronged =/= seriously harmed! It depends on who is at fault.
HUNGER: Surrender Anakin, I have the moral high ground! <--- Fine
EL PRESIDENTE: Surrender Hunger, I (barely) count as not "severely" wronging you! <--- Avenger is Useless
[X] The Ring of Power - Avenger - 7 Arete -
[X] Age - Cut him down as the span of years ought have.
We picked revenge. We want a revenge power.
[X] Age - Cut him down as the span of years ought have.
We picked revenge. We want a revenge power.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I like to think we'll be able to resist that impulse, if nothing else. But it's a fair concern.
On the other hand, and this is important, there will always be strong enemies capable of hurting us and our friends. The Apocryphal Curse guarantees it, if nothing else.
Avenger means that when those enemies arrive, then if they are in any meaningful sense 'wronging' us by attacking us... They get one shot. And if that shot hurts us seriously (literally or metaphorically) without killing us, we bounce back 6-10 times stronger (rough estimate) than we were before.
The question is, are all EFBs that good? 6-10 times greater combat power whenever someone seriously wrongs us is pretty good itself. I think you can make a case for it being worth a third of an EFB. Or rather, about a sixth of an EFB; it reduces the cost of a future EFB to 21 Arete, and so we're effectively 3-4 Arete closer to an EFB as it is!
I don't think we should model power in this game as purely a matter of collecting EFBs. The EFBs are often greatly enhanced in effectiveness by other options we take in between!
In other words, never skip leg day.
At the poker table:
Villain: I win Hunger, I have royal flush.
Hunger: You have wronged me sir - HULKING OUT
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
[X] Fierce Quickening
[X] Honing - 2 Arete
[X] Age
[X] Hero Defeating Stance
@BrainInAJar im calling my marker. I'd prefer if you voted for []Zampano so that you follow my vote. I can't demand it in case you want to reserve the right to veto future flip/flops of my own vote.
Since this is not a vote for Philosopher's Wreath, you may veto calling it this build vote. Future build votes would then have no veto allowed, of course.
Edit: lol purple text is what happens when you proc Doom of the Phoneposter
Double edit: I didn't check if anybody else called your marker already this vote!
[X] Honing - 2 Arete
[X] Age
[X] Hero Defeating Stance
@BrainInAJar im calling my marker. I'd prefer if you voted for []Zampano so that you follow my vote. I can't demand it in case you want to reserve the right to veto future flip/flops of my own vote.
Since this is not a vote for Philosopher's Wreath, you may veto calling it this build vote. Future build votes would then have no veto allowed, of course.
Edit: lol purple text is what happens when you proc Doom of the Phoneposter
Double edit: I didn't check if anybody else called your marker already this vote!
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- Location
- Pindorama
Making me vote for H-DS, I knew I shouldn't have said anything in discord. It's fine since I think it will lose anyway; Avenger lobby is pretty strong right now and you might be the First H-DS voter?
But I'll do it:
[X]Zampano
But I'll do it:
[X]Zampano
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Doesn't that quote fit Avenger better?
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
I think the STATS voters are (or should be) bandwagoning for Hone without noticing that Rihaku ranked the builds assuming that Hone buys HDS!
I'm not convinced Hone alone is competitive so I'd like to spark some momentum.
Hone alone. Lol
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Rihaku
The Internet
I think the Hero-Defeating Stance voters should commit to Honing or Knife; the latter may have more value politically since it also gets RANK voters to join, with the additional Rank somewhat making up for two fewer AGI +s. That said, Honing is certainly very strong! High Combat +Int is frequently useful given Hunger's Wits score.
Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
7 arete to just auto win the Temple? To borrow @Orm Embar 's wonderful phrase, cheap at twice the price.
Vote to leave the massively overleveled zone behind us.
Vote for Avenger.
Vote to leave the massively overleveled zone behind us.
Vote for Avenger.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X] The Ring of Power - Dominion - 2 Arete
[X] The Ring of Power - Preeminence - 7 Arete
[X] The Ring of Power - Hateful Might
[X] Age
[X] The Ring of Power - Preeminence - 7 Arete
[X] The Ring of Power - Hateful Might
[X] Age
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Duquette7
I am Fire, and I am Rain
[X] Forebear's Blade - Headsman
[X] Age
Ok, This time for sure, AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
Headsman, stay in melee, Cut anything that bothers you, be it flesh, steel, or the multifaceted forms of the arcane, develop magic for range, like a proper spellsword, get our first hit of Sealing, Profit!
Mostly though it's about leveraging Cut Through, in combat we want to be in melee, we have absurd Conceptual Cutting Powa, and anytime we want to bring the pain that will be our best option, actively negating most of the dangers inherent in that strategy will benefit us long term.
[X] Age
Ok, This time for sure, AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
Headsman, stay in melee, Cut anything that bothers you, be it flesh, steel, or the multifaceted forms of the arcane, develop magic for range, like a proper spellsword, get our first hit of Sealing, Profit!
Mostly though it's about leveraging Cut Through, in combat we want to be in melee, we have absurd Conceptual Cutting Powa, and anytime we want to bring the pain that will be our best option, actively negating most of the dangers inherent in that strategy will benefit us long term.
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