Eh, we are going to be attacking with rebellion as well and it comes with charisma increase. It's plenty useful and synergistic with Rebellion option.
The charisma increase is too low to seriously matter in my opinion (and organizing an effective rebellion in less than a day requires so many contrivances that I feel the probabilistics effects of Rank would help us much more than sheer charisma) and what Vigor mainly grants us is more survivability, which Hunger already proved to possess in excess during our latest fight.

For mind-affecting or disorienting effects which would bypass that we do also have good Willpower, and that should at the very least allow us to power through.
 
That might end up being more decisive in a rebellion scenario then just being tankier ourselves

Considering the game plan of rebellion is banking on being able to round up enough second stringers resentful of the top brass and buffing them to relevance so they'll be useful in the fight against the fully prepared/gathered top tiers. I do think improving buffing ability pretty significant yeah.
 
*sighs*

Not sure how things are gonna play out but going Shameless incase rebellion wins now.

[X]Cut
[X]Shameless
[X]Fierce Quickening
 
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Also, I don't buy that we have zero chance at finding useful allies for our rebellion. Even if their's literally no one useful in combat in the temple which I don't think is as set in stone some people believe given the rebellion option listed Hunger thinking he saw exploitable faultlines in the temple society, we know their's a nearby encampment of adventurers we can recruit from that have a lot of experience raiding the Temple and atleast some of whom are fairly hardcore such a Fairchild.
Honestly even if we got zero more allies that could stand their ground, the option would be worth it if we got any information at all on the force composition we're expecting.
"Hey, look out for the Lich in the green robes, he's in the habit of just speaking the Abhorrent Word in order to soul flay everyone of lower rank than him."
"Mr. X and Mrs. Y work together as a synergistic team to cover each other's weaknesses, if you can alpha strike one the difficulty of fighting them plummets."
"You have this shadow girl and intend to strike from cover yeah? Well Lich Henryarch does nothing but detect threats and weaknesses and points the other combat Immortals to them, so you'll want to take him out first if you intend to exploit that."
and so on.
 
The charisma increase is too low to seriously matter in my opinion (and organizing an effective rebellion in less than a day requires so many contrivances that I feel the probabilistics effects of Rank would help us much more than sheer charisma) and what Vigor mainly grants us is more survivability, which Hunger already proved to possess in excess during our latest fight.

For mind-affecting or disorienting effects which would bypass that we do also have good Willpower, and that should at the very least allow us to power through.

Since it seems like Rain is still fairly behind even if cut does win, I don't suppose I can convince you to go back to a approval vote for Shameless if Rebellion maintains it's lead since Vigor versus Shameless are dead even at the moment, could I?
 
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MAGIC FANTASY TERTIARY INSTITUTE DATING SIM QUEST
What a fascinating array of systems, would gladly consume as a quest or in other formats. Now, to see about builds:

[O] The Diehard
[O] Manacraft
x4


There are those who believe the European Art's glory days are long gone. Progress marches on, its anthem drowning out the cries of a past receding ever-further into memory, and tomorrow's champions sneer at tradition and the art that sustained their forefathers. Pay no heed to this pack of ungrateful cowards and cretins, for they are blind to Manacraft's true potential!

The Diehard dreams of a world inundated with glory, a storm-wracked and programmable reality ripe for reshaping by those with the intellect to do so. In theory, the plan is simple: enclose the Earth in a hyperdense shell of Mana, achieving complete global saturation. In practice, a thousand obstacles conspire to keep the dream on the drawing board. But perhaps with Stonelight's resources, this aspiring supervillain sensible conservative can realize his ambitions.

[O] The Swiftest Man Alive
[O] Pranacraft x2
[O] The Intercept x2

All well and good to traverse the Winding Way, but why walk when you can sprint? And why limit yourself to mundane methods of locomotion when magic offers so many possibilities? Within the Intercept's indestructible celerity, the Swiftest has spent subjective months contemplating synergies. Though no Mentalist, quantity of thought converts imperfectly to quality.

Now he theorizes ways to supplement the relative weakness of Intercepting spells with Prana reinforcement and reduce Prana field contraction. He hopes to slip gravity's yoke and step into the sky, riding the wind as the Axis Needle itself does, flitting between pockets of naturally-occurring Prana in the stratosphere. He may have outrun his sanity, but nevertheless he cannot stop, not until he learns speed. Only then will he be able to speak with pride the moniker chosen as an ignorant youth.

...choosing for myself, I'd probably go with something like Tribune & Enigmatism. Lots of deep lore and opportunities to give sysadmins headaches, plus diligent pursuit of the latter confers broad and relevant capabilities. It's a shame, with just one potential point more I could take Mentalism alongside Tribune, but greed for points and lamenting the lack of drawbacks is a sign it's well-priced and written. Internalism's pretty cool too, but I couldn't resist the urge to recreate Noboru. Thanks for sharing this!
 
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Sure, buffing our allies would be useful but you know what will be even more useful? Becoming durable enough that we can kill the initial enemies without getting injured. That would seem much more impressive and overwhelming to any prospective ally.

This entire rebellion will hinge on Hunger and his strenght. They aren't going to be likely able to fight off immortals themselves even with the blood buff. It will in the end come down to Hunger, so making him far tankier is simply better than an marginal increase in blood buffing.
 
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Honestly even if we got zero more allies that could stand their ground, the option would be worth it if we got any information at all on the force composition we're expecting.
"Hey, look out for the Lich in the green robes, he's in the habit of just speaking the Abhorrent Word in order to soul flay everyone of lower rank than him."
"Mr. X and Mrs. Y work together as a synergistic team to cover each other's weaknesses, if you can alpha strike one the difficulty of fighting them plummets."
"You have this shadow girl and intend to strike from cover yeah? Well Lich Henryarch does nothing but detect threats and weaknesses and points the other combat Immortals to them, so you'll want to take him out first if you intend to exploit that."
and so on.
"If you run into easy going Immortal who is ready to let you go if you turn around DON'T FIGHT HIM"
 
This entire rebellion will hinge on Hunger and his strenght. They aren't going to be likely able to fight off immortals themselves even with the blood buff. It will in the end come down to Hunger so making him greater us simply better rather than an marginal increase in blood buffing.

I still don't actually buy that Hunger is going to be the only relevant combatant. Heck, Rihaku literally called out relying on a blood buffed Gisena as one of the options for dealing with a bloodless enemy we would need to rely on, which implies she is fairly useful at this tier of combat.

Edit: Plus, this leaves us arete to buy stances just in case things go wrong, which are likely to be even more helpful then Vigor, even if you assume we won't run into a chance to get any picks for Vigor after this which I don't think is set in stone.
 
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Since it seems like Rain is still fairly behind even if cut does win, I don't suppose I can convince you to go back to approval vote for Shameless if Rebellion maintains it's lead since Vigor versus Shameless are dead even at the moment, could I?
Well no you can't, since I was already copy-pasting the option before reading this (I just am slow since I'm on phone) and I won't just let you get the credit like that! :tongue:

[X] Foment Rebellion
[X] Feat: Shameless


Goodbye Rain I guess, you were such a good choice (your mileage may vary) but were deemed reckless by the majority and so condemned to oblivion. :cry:
 
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Well no you can't, since I was already copy-pasting the option before reading this (I just am slow since I'm on phone) and I won't let you get the credit! :tongue:

[X] Foment Rebellion
[X] Feat: Shameless


Goodbye Rain I guess, you were such a good choice (your mileage may vary) but were deemed reckless by the majority amd so condemned to oblivion. :cry:

For what it's worth I think Rain was the best Cut Through option too, and if we're ever in a similar situation or just have a bunch of picks while a lack or a desire to save Arete and this comes up, it's definitely something i'd pounce on.
 
There is something to be said for hitting the Ring with a strong set of picks and a new Stance immediately... not only would it resolve this Temple arc faster, there would be less risk to Gisena and Aeira! And if you pick Magic / Weapon / World-Defeating, you'd be halfway to All-Defeating Stance! With sufficient AGI Hunger could scrape by with using Cut Through for magic defense, which would make Weapon-Defeating Stance quite viable. The advantage would be much greater speed and offense, perfect for capitalizing on Hunger's existing momentum!

Perhaps something like Fierce Quickening x2 + Echo, that yields +6.5 AGI with Edeldross, or a full +13 with Weapon-Defeating Stance! Building on your strengths is rarely a bad idea, and this would segue well into All-Defeating.
 
I still don't actually buy that Hunger is going to be the only relevant combatant. Heck, Rihaku literally called out relying on a blood buffed Gisena as one of the options for dealing with a bloodless enemy we would need to rely on, which implies she alone is fairly useful at this tier of combat.

Edit: Plus, this leaves us arete to buy stances just in case things go wrong, which are likely to be even more helpful then Vigor, even if you assume we won't run into a chance to get any picks for Vigor after this which I don't think is set in stone.
Eh, I thought it was obvious Gisena would be useful. I was talking about anyone among the Moon Civ we might convince to defect.

I consider the effect of increase in blood buffing from shameless to be fairly marginal in comparison to the alternative of an massively more durable Hunger. The increase in durability opens up further tactics and ability to take more risks in combat.

Edit: A stronger Hunger would also be able to more effectively protect his allies.
 
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[X] Foment Rebellion
[X] Feat: Shameless


Guess we'll just have to shamelessly cut them apart, one bribe and tear jerking family betrayal at a time.

This entire rebellion will hinge on Hunger and his strenght. They aren't going to be likely able to fight off immortals themselves even with the blood buff. It will in the end come down to Hunger, so making him far tankier is simply better than an marginal increase in blood buffing.

If that was actually the case Cut would be a vastly superior option. So we should just take it instead. Since we've been told that's not so, clearly the defectors have a lot of value. The difference between fighting a couple of distracted guys at worst, and a fully prepped and motivated force with everything called up is massive. So there needs to be significant value from the ones we recruit to bridge the gap, just our companions alone don't seem to make up the difference to me.
 
Anyway I personally think getting Hunger magic systems is silly. I understand the disdain of what he has; although the effects are magical, they are derived from equipment, not from the person, the difference between Harry's invisibility cloak and his wand. Secondly, when people want magic systems, what they really want is the joy of inquiry and exploration. They don't want to be users, they want to be pioneers. Which, obviously, runs counter to Hunger.

Hm... Scientific Internalism + Mentalism seems like it'd have good synergy.
 
>assuming you can make friends with ghosts

>assuming you can engage or even defeat a ghost in hand to hand

>assuming the lamb can rebel against the lion


That's not how we roll in universe 666.

How we roll in universe 666... is poorly.

Ah, of course. More the fool me to think Horror!Rihaku would have room for that kind of indulgence in his heart.

Also, gonna tuck "lamb cannot rebel against the lion" into my sick as fuck phrases folder, in between with "make bread from their bones" and "the river cannot turn away from the waterfall."

The Moon Mirror accepts animal blood too! It doesn't care.

It just wants the blood.

Amazing how skilled Rihaku-666 is at creating fear through informative word of god statements. I can almost taste the panicked recriminations and resultant salt.

The method for forming Blood Doors isn't that hard to find, if you roll reasonably well on your research rolls. Although for some reason, hardly anybody writes about what happens after you go through...

Hmm. Interesting that the information is just out there, even for relative amateurs. I would have thought that would be one of the things people tamp down on the most, unless door pushers are a self-solving problem here.

The Entertainer is only the top livestreamer in the country of China. That's the only part of the Internet that actually matters!

Yes, plague upon that leprous Western rat! Pewdiepie... *shakes fist*

Ah, so not top in the world. Still a pretty damn wild amount for the Entertainer to make though; if the numbers are anything like real life, he'd be earning more than Liu Mo, who apparently gets $4,000,000+ a year, which is amazing for anyone, let alone a washed up showbiz star doing internet streaming. No wonder he kept going after his crew got slaughtered!

Birds die for food and men die for wealth.

Spiritual Purity is only somewhat relevant for discourse with spirits. After all, they were people too, once! Probably.

Two things here. One is how these spirits might be slightly less resentful and envious of the living than I expected if they're somewhat empathic to the eternal spiritual abrasion of mundanity. The other thing is the possibility of nonhuman spirits. Genus Loci, maybe? Or amalgamations of thousand lesser ghosts into a mass of ectoplasm and screaming faces?

There are other ways to enter the Blood World. It's a Blood World after all, not a Blood Closet.

Good to know! Also, incredibly worrying, but then what isn't in world-666? At this point, I'm more curious about exits because I'm starting to think that's the real trick here.

I wouldn't count on finding rituals on the Internet without Artifact aid. The old families would never let that information out, not for all the tea in China!

I assume this is more an issue of sifting through information than there truly being no lore on the internet? Or at least the signal the noise ratio must be atrocious for Artifact aid to be necessary. Not sure why the more functional ones wouldn't be transmitted further though, could that be another machination of the old families or is the internet itself haunted in some way? Weird Dark Web shit is a decent niche in urban horror, even if it's largely inaccurate to real life.

Even now, with the shadow at your door, you squabble and pettifog. Consolidating builds now.

[ ] The Young Tiger - You can cage a tiger. You can bring it to heel. In time, you can even become its friend. But only a fool forgets the tiger's strength. In the tiger's eyes, you are only meat, fit for the tiger's maw. Strangled, wounded, suffocated by the steel and concrete, nevertheless you live, though it is a half-life, a life of decay, of the walking dead. How fortunate, then, that you find yourself in the company of fellows. Truly, the heavens have smiled on thee...
Enthusiast
Blood Eye
Thief's Ear
Corpse Ink

Impurity of Heart
Perverse Hungers

*Exchanges naivete for compulsion to violence and bloodthirst.
*Impurity of Heart merely makes apparent what was already implied by Perverse Hungers, with little opportunity cost. While it locks out some defensive wards, you wouldn't benefit much from staying stationary; the predator who waits in one place is prey.
*History of delinquent behavior and sadistic tendencies imperfectly restrained through rigorous physical disciplining in childhood and strict regimen in adulthood.
*Love of horror films a socially acceptable way to enjoy bloodshed and gore while studying role models.
*The Young Tiger's youthful inexperience is buoyed by his natural killer instinct. As his route is mostly populated by living persons in the early stages, he is advantaged by playing in a field with innate talent.
*Eye and Ear permit detection against human and spectral prey, Corpse Ink provides offensive deterrent against early Spectres until you can find other Artifacts, as well as method to sate dark urges without leaving evidence in the waking world. Doesn't really need the Golden Compass if he wants to find someone.
*You Are The One Who Knocks

I deeply, deeply distrust this option. On the surface, it seems great. While living in a horror movie universe is almost universally bad, being the monster is usually less bad than being one of the victims. But is that what will really happen? This version of Rihaku feeds on our fear. It seems more likely that our character's relative strength will instead just lull us into temporary complacency until he can lure us into an area beyond our strength, at which point he will sup on the salt of our terror-sweat.

Ignoring that worst case scenario, this seems like quite a good option. Significantly safer due to both the limited scope of our encounters and the higher relative power level, so long as we play in line with the character concept. I assume we're intended to get Artifacts by murdering other relative paranormal scrubs and looting their shit? This guy probably doesn't have the skills and resources to truly make it in the Blood World unless we get lucky with a lot of research rolls but he's really strong against rando practitioners.

Curious what the later stages of his route look like. Presumably a lot of balancing on the edge of life and death as our boy relies on wit and cunning to get him past the actual spectres and spooks that haunt the world. Not sure what the end game is, except for maybe a desperate manhunt by the police due to the influence of one of your more temporally powerful rivals. Funniest part is that this guy would probably really enjoy that; would let him live out all of his fantasies without turning into a complete monster.

Wonder how he feels towards his family though. I'm assuming he's more on the Dexter end of the spectrum of serial killers, even in an alternate universe of horror, I doubt we've got the stomach for real heartlessness. Might be nice to see our boy come home from bashing a dude's brains out and burying their bodies to call his parents and ask how their lives have been. Would be cute.

[ ] The Washed-up Personality - So what if you're old? You've been in the business longer than these kids have had pubes! Sure, you don't really get how this livestreaming thing is supposed to be interesting, but you know how to draw attention. Even jesters eat from the same kitchen as kings.
Entertainer
Thief's Ear
Pale Fingers

Rationalist

*Curmudgeonly attitude more resistant than untested philosophy.
*Superstitious implements more easily smuggled by telling inquisitive staff to fuck off.
*Wiser to the world, more socially adept.
*Sinful Spiritual Purity more easily rationalized as a consequence of age.
*Ear permits conversation with ghost without the grisly appearance revealed by the Eye.
*Rationalist mind more capable of ignoring inconvenient truths to focus.
*Able to headpat ghost children and tell bad jokes without freaking out.
*Able to sympathize with spirits from an era more familiar to him.
*Older than most ghosts were at expiration. A voice of maturity.
*Worse physical stats and no defensive Artifacts. Will have to select filming sites wisely or play well to survive.
The True Mister Satan route! Sounds like he'd be quite fun to play as; this grumpy old man turned live streamer. And you just know he'd be an eternal font of meme magic. He's like what, mid forties? Watching this old dude (by the standards of the internet) take up streaming would be hilarious and potentially semi-comfy if we could select our haunting sites with sufficient care. If Rihaku-666 has mercy in his heart, maybe work on ghost counselling and help them move on.

It would also be nice to play an older protagonist for once. Hunger is a good start but he's still got some of the spirit of youth, if not its full vigour. Having someone who's truly been ground down by the world and is now content with making a solid living. Death or glory is a young man's game; survival or gainful employment is where it's really at. Even restricting it to China, the most popular streamers make a few cool mil.

Low key looking forward to him just refusing to acknowledge that he's talking to ghosts whatsoever, treating all as smoke and mirrors, as though a society of extremely belligerent improv magicians had made it their life's work to harass him. Between that, ghost child headpats, reminiscing about the old days with buddies from beyond the grave and the amenities that come with the money we'd be earning, this might actually be a wholesome story, assuming we don't do anything stupid.

Unfortunately, I don't think we have the wisdom to manage that or I'd be quite tempted. I'm sure alt-Rihaku's refined his Mondo Bait even further that this one and I don't think I could bear it watching pseudo-grampa die because of our poor decision making.

[ ] The Black Turtle - Weakest child, of the weakest Clan, yours was an imperfect vessel for the legacy. Frail, timorous, like mud cracking underneath the sun, poor iron shattering upon the anvil of expectation. And yet there were no others who stood to inherit, your father's seed barely producing his only issue before the suicide. Merely one more sign of disfavor in a parade of them. But so be it; if the end of your line has been ordained by the celestial will, let it end with honor.

Exorcist

Black Marrow

Stony Liver

Golden Compass

Zodiacal Malediction

Cowardly Tenor


*Exorcist education of the Northern Clan, well used to operating with the unique Malediction of the Ancestor, are able to compensate for inability to employ general rituals, and stabilize the Golden Compass in the Blood World, permitting safer navigation and Artifact Hunting.

*Similarly, has own methods of ghost detection and avoidance that don't rely on the unreliably-induced gifts of Eye and Ear.

*You have your own ways of traveling to the Blood World.

*Stony Liver lets you endure indigent lifestyle.

*Golden Compass aids in escape from authority. Exorcist education allows its targeting parameters to be widened i.e. "closest person who intends me harm/aid," "person guarded by the heavens," "person who knows my identity" "person in danger"

*While your Zodiacal Malediction prevents passive protection, specific countermeasures and sheltering beneath the aegis of another are still possible.

*Cowardly Tenor has little effect in investigative phase, can be neutralized by Ancestor's Binding when shit gets real. In waking world, Cowardly Tenor is a semi-effective substitute for street smarts.

*Disturbing pallor of face merely one among many distasteful qualities.

*You broadly know what's wrong with the Blood World, which is half the battle.

*You know better than most the folly of fighting ghosts.

*Error in the Heavenly Ledger: As a consequence of your Malediction and your Black Marrow, you will not form a Specter upon expiration.

I want to give our gross, scurred, cursed boy a hug. What a conga line of tragedy and suffering. Curious why our dad killed himself, aside from him his life being a doomed struggle against unwinnable odds with no promise of reward or even respite. Though I guess there doesn't really need to be any specific reason; things might have gotten too much and even the thought of his son (assuming he felt anything beyond a grim, resigned obligation towards having and raising us) couldn't stop him.

A homeless ghostbuster quest does sound pretty neat and balancing weird supernatural shit with the basic need for food, water, shelter and non-hostile human companionship sounds like it would be a lot of fun. I'm sure people living on the street long term have at least a little bit of occult lore to share and being beneath notice for both the authorities and the old families might come in handy at some point. Does make us a valid target for those preying on people who they believe won't be missed, but being a defending the downtrodden from predators sounds like a worthy cause and could provide a few assets.

Curious that it describes mundanity as "the waking world". A hint as to the true nature of reality? I could see the Blood World being a manifestation of humanities collective unconscious, which would be terrible in our world, let alone one that's like our world but also a horror movie. The Golden Compass in the hands of a trained Exorcist is pretty rad and honestly I'd quite enjoy playing the coward for once.

Also the build best suited for getting that DEEP LORE. Would be nice to actually dig into that stuff for once; I can't recall us ever really finding out about those things in any recent quest and the ones before were usually fanworks of other properties. And the worst thing that could happen is our death and not some eternal torture! What do we have to lose, really?

{X} The Black Turtle

P.S: 1346 words.
 
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Cut Voters: Consider Fierce Quickening along with your preference of {Vigor Incarnate / Shameless}! The primary defense stat we've been relying on is AGI! When we charged into the temple to meet the Marshall, we simply outdoes manybof the outriders! AGI will help to take advantage of the Temple's momentary disarray, and avoid attrition by getting caught in fewer minor fights.

Quickening will also offer Wits, which will help to notice if something is wrong & we're being baited into a trap. Giving Hunger an advantage in noticing that an Immortal Guardian is just stalling for time until help arrives will improve our chances of grabbing the ring ASAP.
 
@runeblue360 You've negated your previous vote!

Cut Voters: Consider Fierce Quickening along with your preference of {Vigor Incarnate / Shameless}! The primary defense stat we've been relying on is AGI! When we charged into the temple to meet the Marshall, we simply outdoes manybof the outriders! AGI will help to take advantage of the Temple's momentary disarray, and avoid attrition by getting caught in fewer minor fights.

Quickening will also offer Wits, which will help to notice if something is wrong & we're being baited into a trap. Giving Hunger an advantage in noticing that an Immortal Guardian is just stalling for time until help arrives will improve our chances of grabbing the ring ASAP.

You guys have been somewhat neglecting your AGI recently... it's only 39 with Edeldross up! That could be as high as 52 with Cut + Fierce Quickening + Echo + Weapon-Defeating Stance!
 
I think Cut Through is enough offense that increasing our Protection and thereby gaining the ability to exchange direct blows will see us quickly score another meaningful kill
 
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