My problem is despite what Rihaku said, I have real trouble mentally visualizing how exactly rebellion is safer. Why should we be able to expect to back off for example? We don't even know how long it'll take Gisena to arrive, what if the kill squad rallies and hits us before that and we've basically squandered our opportunity for nothing? I assume these aren't actually as serious concerns as they seem since we were told that dallying is in fact safer, but since I can't understand the rationale for why that's the case. It's hard to justify plans that rely on it happening beyond just shrugging and saying "WOG".
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
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- Original
My problem is despite what Rihaku said, I have real trouble mentally visualizing how exactly rebellion is safer. Why should we be able to expect to back off for example? We don't even know how long it'll take Gisena to arrive, what if the kill squad rallies and hits us before that and we've basically squandered our opportunity for nothing? I assume these aren't actually as serious concerns as they seem since we were told that dallying is in fact safer, but since I can't understand the rationale for why that's the case. It's hard to justify plans that rely on it happening beyond just shrugging and saying "WOG".
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
If somebody has a strategic omake nuke they're sitting on and willing to let loose, Opalescence to Pearlesence may be a viable Cut build.
Safety in numbers I presume. With Cut we are essentially running into the Inner Temple while there was something unprecedented - the Call has stopped. Everybody is wondering wtf is going on and we are hoping, that we are fast enough to steal the azure Ring and get the fuck out, relying on the lack of preparedness of the immortals.
With the Rebellion the Inner Temple will be prepared for our attack but we can actually use them as a distraction/cannon fodder. They will also be split into two forces - immortal defending the Inner Temple itself and immortals defending the Ring. Last update we learned that those neets don`t go outside so with Cut we might run into all of them just lazily watching the RingTV
- Location
- a place
Well, I'm assuming that fighting our way out or retreating of the Outer Temple is going to be easier then doing so in the Inner Temple simply because we know less of their heavy are their, and it's also small enough that we apparently have blitzed through it in such a short amount of time that their still in disarray. Sheer distance alone should tell us easier to get out of the Outer Temple alone then both the Inner Temple AND the outer Temple if we don't assume any other factors. Heck, if we take rebellion Hunger could even just back off now and regroup with his party. If we do regroup, our ability to retreat will probably be even better, because then we can just grab Gisena and Aeira, have the former harry them with if they can keep up with us and Aeira put up a stealth field to make us harder to nail down.
Even if we wait for them, as long as a single enemy has blood our ring gives us a chance to see them coming and back off.
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I'm not sure how many Immortals they have, but we seem to think one would be difficult for us. I think we kill our allies without too much trouble, but that is speculation on my part. So who benefits more, the team getting to add more people peered to Hunger, or the team getting a bunch of traitorous goons. And plenty of those goons have reason to just rally to the Immortals defense as well.
I think the best strategy is a ring bum rush before they get their feet set down.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
You know, this might be crazy-greedy, but I kind of want to see what happens if we just buy Pearlescence here? It's effectively +Progression, because it makes the cloak scale with us, and apparently our Blade XP is responsible for a full half of our progression.
Also, our having largely outscaled it might mean we get considerable backpay, given how the option is worded. I think it's worth considering.
Also, our having largely outscaled it might mean we get considerable backpay, given how the option is worded. I think it's worth considering.
Rihaku
The Internet
Mm, in Foment Hunger is basically doing his best to crush the civilization via defeat in detail, whereas in Cut he's going straight for the objective. It's like going for the throat vs. compounding an existing advantage. However, there is a circumstance bonus to going for the throat right now, and further, it yields +1 pick...
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
It's tempting. Unfortunately it needs an omakestorm to pull off and it would be rude to count on it.
- Location
- a place
On the other hand, if the bum rush fails we don't have much of a reason to believe we can retreat from the most defended part of their Civilization, especially when their would certainly be more and more forces looking to cut that off. At the very least Rebellion allows to to gather information to see if we're in over head rather then merely hoping we're not, while if it's does turn out we are we can rely on our progression to eventually make us strong enough to win.
This is setting aside that I think people are taking the idea that their will be zero people who would be relevant combatants even with Blood Buffing, Debuffing, and Edeldross buff willing to work with us for granted.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Plus if we deliberately pursue charisma enhancement in the future, or Evening Sky upgrades (some of which are +Protection AND +Charisma), we get to double-dip!
It's... [REDACTED FORBIDDEN WORD]-istic!
- Location
- a place
Not to mention any advancements to Edeldross and I believe the ring get better since I know the former and think the latter buffs both of those stats.
Thats a good point, I think both of these plans have a failure state. Cut through is if our gambit fails, and we are unable to dislodge the ring. Presumably 2+ Immortals grouped up in time and we just can't break through. We either die there or perhaps get sent into ghost form / limp away. It's a tough break and we're not recovering that day no matter what.
The flip side on forment is that there are more immortals than we can deal with when fully prepared, 6-9 that group up. Our best case scenario is they send 4~ to hunt us and 4~ to guard and we beat them in stages. If we're forced to fight the full power of the Immortals I'm not sure how we win, we have to pick them off somehow before they group IMO.
I kind of feel like the recruit the locals thing will go better for us than expected because we're the protagonist, but the immortals have rank as well presumably, and people will be promised existing positions they can trust from them.
There might be a lot of powerful people willing to ditch Immortals' seemingly sinking boat to jump on Hunger's one - or at least willing to be convinced to do so. Or High Marshals that are willing to change sides if they think that fighting Immortals with Hunger is safer than fighting Hunger. Hell, we don't even know whether all Immortals are okay with the current arrangement, some might be willing to join us as well. Converting the initiative into information and allies is not a bad deal.
Thing is, we don't know how many Immortals are guarding the Ring right now. Sure, they might be relaxed at home with only one unluckiest pulling the graveyard shift. Or maybe there's half a dozen of them guarding it because they treat their duty seriously. The team guarding the Ring might not need any more people joining them to kick Hunger's ass, while we really could use the information on whether or not this is true and convince some people to fight for us and at worst betray them and run away while they are dying.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
As far as I can tell the current voting scenario is this(I haven't seriously investigated Omake power).
Contentious debate between Cut and Forment Rebellion, with contentious debate between Vigor Incarnate and Shameless for a 2 pick. If Cut wins, Dominion War gives us .25 rank for conflict with serious stakes, taking us to either 5.575 Rank for conflict with serious stakes purposes (5.325 baseline), or giving us a Charisma to protection power boost with Might/Charisma boosts and bringing our rank for conflict with serious stakes to 5.25.
Contentious debate between Cut and Forment Rebellion, with contentious debate between Vigor Incarnate and Shameless for a 2 pick. If Cut wins, Dominion War gives us .25 rank for conflict with serious stakes, taking us to either 5.575 Rank for conflict with serious stakes purposes (5.325 baseline), or giving us a Charisma to protection power boost with Might/Charisma boosts and bringing our rank for conflict with serious stakes to 5.25.
- Location
- a place
Well, given Aeira still has the ability to extend a stealth field to us and they aren't able to predict our movements due to a lack of divination while Guile-Defeating helps protect us from falling into their own counter ambushes, I'd say that we options for potentially picking them off in the worst case scenario for Foment whereas I don't see any options to make retreat from the Inner Temple viable other then praying our agility is enough.
One advantage we have is that their's also a nearby encampment of people where many strong people have made careers of delving into the Temple. Even if we can convince any of their heavy hitters like Fairchild to help us despite the call giving out, Edeldross buffing along with Blood De/buffing should go along way to bringing them up to relevancy even if their are literally zero relevant locals willing to side with us which I doubt. Keep in mind that we have a lot to offer once we get the ring and Gisena has sub memetic hazard tier social ability that we can buff even without renaissance woman, so we're not entirely without charisma no matter what we pick.
Plus, Hunger has over a decade of experience fighting a war against a overwhelming enemy far stronger then Avecarn, and that was before he had Guile-Defeating Stance to see through our enemies plans.
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- Location
- Brazil
@Hirorubie Here!
420 words.
[ ] Hero's ruby – Heroism manifest and crystalized in a ruby. A magic only for those that are True Heroes. It's their will, their hopes and dreams, their own Heroism taken form.
The formation of a Hero's Ruby is seemingly random. When someone makes a great act, such as slaying a great beast, saving a princess, or the kingdom, sometimes the individual will find themselves with a ruby in their chest some time afterwards: The process is not painful, happening in their sleep, and it's quite possible for him to not notice it.
When the Ruby is formed, it will steadily grow in power as the Hero keeps doing heroic things. The Hero has innate knowledge of that fact, and of the Ruby's powers, as soon as they notice it's presence.
The Ruby make the Hero lighter, stronger, faster, better in every way, shape and form, on top of that, he gains a power based on the thing that first gave him the Ruby: For example, slaying a tyrant with a sword would give him magical sword skills, saving a princess would give him powers that allowed him to protect others, etc.
As the Hero makes more heroic deeds, the Ruby will start to glow brighter and brighter, (he can deactivate the glow at will) improving all of it's existing effects, while improving their scope. The Hero's sword power suddenly allows him to cut trough time and space, a power that shields him becomes capable of withstanding a dragon's breath, and covering multiple people, etc.
Eventually, the Ruby will enter a so-called singularity: The Hero's body will be unaffected by the material world unless he wishes to be, only magical effects can truly harm him, and even then, even should his body be destroyed, it would eventually be re-made around the Ruby. The only way to truly kill him would be by destroying the Ruby, and even that would require immense work.
It's theorized that with enough heroism, it would be possible to reach a meta-singularity, where even the Ruby itself becomes unaffected by the world, creating the perfect hero. Invincible, untiring, undying.
Should the Hero ever wish to die, the jewel cracks and he moves on from this world, however, should he ever stray from the path of heroism, the Ruby will dim and dim, eventually, it will entirely darken, crack, and shatter.
There are rumors, hearsay, of a Dark Ruby being seen in the world, but surely something like this wouldn't be possible…
420 words.
[ ] Hero's ruby – Heroism manifest and crystalized in a ruby. A magic only for those that are True Heroes. It's their will, their hopes and dreams, their own Heroism taken form.
The formation of a Hero's Ruby is seemingly random. When someone makes a great act, such as slaying a great beast, saving a princess, or the kingdom, sometimes the individual will find themselves with a ruby in their chest some time afterwards: The process is not painful, happening in their sleep, and it's quite possible for him to not notice it.
When the Ruby is formed, it will steadily grow in power as the Hero keeps doing heroic things. The Hero has innate knowledge of that fact, and of the Ruby's powers, as soon as they notice it's presence.
The Ruby make the Hero lighter, stronger, faster, better in every way, shape and form, on top of that, he gains a power based on the thing that first gave him the Ruby: For example, slaying a tyrant with a sword would give him magical sword skills, saving a princess would give him powers that allowed him to protect others, etc.
As the Hero makes more heroic deeds, the Ruby will start to glow brighter and brighter, (he can deactivate the glow at will) improving all of it's existing effects, while improving their scope. The Hero's sword power suddenly allows him to cut trough time and space, a power that shields him becomes capable of withstanding a dragon's breath, and covering multiple people, etc.
Eventually, the Ruby will enter a so-called singularity: The Hero's body will be unaffected by the material world unless he wishes to be, only magical effects can truly harm him, and even then, even should his body be destroyed, it would eventually be re-made around the Ruby. The only way to truly kill him would be by destroying the Ruby, and even that would require immense work.
It's theorized that with enough heroism, it would be possible to reach a meta-singularity, where even the Ruby itself becomes unaffected by the world, creating the perfect hero. Invincible, untiring, undying.
Should the Hero ever wish to die, the jewel cracks and he moves on from this world, however, should he ever stray from the path of heroism, the Ruby will dim and dim, eventually, it will entirely darken, crack, and shatter.
There are rumors, hearsay, of a Dark Ruby being seen in the world, but surely something like this wouldn't be possible…
I'm so embarrassed but also so thankful, you're the best!
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
I'm still endlessly amused that while everybody else asked someone to make a magic system for them, or didn't ask and got one made for them anyway, I wrote one for myself. It's a funny bit of Early Installment Weirdness, since I wrote mine back when the idea was first proposed and there wasn't any kind of system or tradition for the process yet.
Guile defeating stance is a huge weight off my shoulders, I think it will serve Hunger very well in not only this place, but for the rest of his life. I'm glad we picked it up.
I don't have too much more to say before I start rehashing, just that I do worry for our companions if Forment wins. He fought a long war and has a lot of experience with an overwhelming enemy, and part of that is accepting that his allies take casualties along the way.
For me it comes down to being perhaps too protective of them, but I can't help myself at this juncture at least. (unless conjured blade calls me in of course)
- Location
- Brazil
At this point I'm just giving magic systems like candy. And you get a magical system, and you get a magical system...
It was very sweet, so the candy comparison is actually quite apt.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Doing the math for Vigor Incarnate
We have 9 Charisma, 11 if Vigor wins. We have 2 protection. These are all baseline values due to Edeldross Adept baseline enhancement cancelling out Uttermost Penalties.
We also unfortunately have a low intensity version of Punctured Soul. This Reduces our Rank by 5 percent, our physical attributes by 5 percent, our Mental Attributes by 15 percent, and our Social Attributes by 20 percent. Not sure where protection falls on this spectrum.
Before taking punctured soul into account with Vigor Incarnate, we have 13(11+2) protection. Not sure when to include the 1.15 for advanced Edeldross enhancement though.
(11*1.15+2*1.15) = 14.95
Now let's include the 20 percent social debuff to Charisma.
Baseline Edeldross Enhancement protection: (11*.8+2) = 10.8
Advanced Edeldross Enhancement protection: (11*.95+2*1.15) = 12.75
Now let's compare things with Shameless and Dominion War.
Baseline Rank assuming no rank boosters win: 5*.95 = 4.75
Baseline Rank with Shameless: (5.325*.95) = 5.05875
Rank in Dominion War Scenarios: 5.30875
This is some farked up comedy. Our social ventures were practically doomed from the start with a 20 percent debuff to social attributes and a 15 percent penalty to our mental functioning. I'm not sure what's good anymore for Cut if the math works out like this. *Loses SAN points*
We have 9 Charisma, 11 if Vigor wins. We have 2 protection. These are all baseline values due to Edeldross Adept baseline enhancement cancelling out Uttermost Penalties.
We also unfortunately have a low intensity version of Punctured Soul. This Reduces our Rank by 5 percent, our physical attributes by 5 percent, our Mental Attributes by 15 percent, and our Social Attributes by 20 percent. Not sure where protection falls on this spectrum.
Before taking punctured soul into account with Vigor Incarnate, we have 13(11+2) protection. Not sure when to include the 1.15 for advanced Edeldross enhancement though.
(11*1.15+2*1.15) = 14.95
Now let's include the 20 percent social debuff to Charisma.
Baseline Edeldross Enhancement protection: (11*.8+2) = 10.8
Advanced Edeldross Enhancement protection: (11*.95+2*1.15) = 12.75
Now let's compare things with Shameless and Dominion War.
Baseline Rank assuming no rank boosters win: 5*.95 = 4.75
Baseline Rank with Shameless: (5.325*.95) = 5.05875
Rank in Dominion War Scenarios: 5.30875
This is some farked up comedy. Our social ventures were practically doomed from the start with a 20 percent debuff to social attributes and a 15 percent penalty to our mental functioning. I'm not sure what's good anymore for Cut if the math works out like this. *Loses SAN points*