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A Simple Transaction I

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sithmor said:
I wanted Trustworthy narratively for Gisena.
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Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I think our choice here sets the tone for the Hero's attitude.

Imagine if the character in question wasn't the beautiful, powerful font of wisdom and master of porcelain plumbing Gisena. Would you still want the Hero to trust so easily?

Even if we start off a little cold, she was great friends with Seram and Jeanne in another timeline, I'm sure that won't put her off so easily. And longterm resistance to her powers could help us put together a more powerful partnership. She can fight alongside another mage and not have to worry about her powers limiting them, how joyous and freeing for her to be able to cut loose!
 
Crimson Moon said:
[X] Unshattered

A pity that there's no Echo + Thick as Thieves + Feast choice.
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Well, a Force Unto is very close! It trades the +Int (but also isn't compromised by mental contamination) for +Might, +Agility, +Strength, and +Wits. That's a steal!

BrainInAJar said:
I would say the detrimental effects of mental pollution are overstated, but we don't even know what they are, so it's hard to argue. I don't think they would be problem exactly because the hero is so early in his characterization; being influenced by the Tyrant now would be far less jarring. It also would give him more time to settle and readjust should those memories rattle him rather than harm him should he take it at a desperate moment.
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It doesn't give memories to an appreciable extent, just characteristics.

BrainInAJar said:
Good to know that Coldbriar would have inevitably died like a dog.
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Well, perhaps not if you'd joined him! Extremely hard to go up against the Nettlespine though. And Imperia was only growing more powerful.

sithmor said:
[X] Force Unto
[X] Nightmare Praetor

The only option that I'm really against is Unshattered which limits the long term potential overall. I wanted Trustworthy narratively for Gisena. Force Unto is my preferred option for having high synergy, and it suits the nature of the quest where we go into battle after battle. Nightmare Praetor is for the competency boost.
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Interesting, an anti-Balancebro vote!
 
Rihaku said:
Would be interesting to see how the quest would have proceeded with Hand of Justice. I imagine Strategist fans would have been even more frustrated with Arthur now torn between three forces (Justice, Strategist, Governance)! Or perhaps the focus on a relatively simple and straightforward power would have demanded focus of the voterbase as well.

When one walks the path of Justice, as with Vengeance, one must discard all unnecessary entanglements. To do otherwise invites the bitter reprisal of the world.
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Oh man, if Hand of Justice had won though - you better believe I would have voted for Justice in every single vote possible! It was the best possible mix of 'Superhero Justice', 'Ultimate Physical Power', 'Original Muscle Wizard' and 'Red Option' I've seen in these quests.

Not picking HoJ was kind of the first salt-moment I've had in your original quests, eclipsed only by the possibility of seeing Visored Byakuya and Yoruichi with the option to Decline joining Aizen (eventually quenched by the sheer awesome of Oblivion Itself and The Last Quincy).

No doubt though, my saltiest moment will come in a future quest when we reject the Praxis for a 4th (!) time...
 
[X] Nightmare Praetor
[X] Force Unto

I think Nightmare Praetor is critically the best option for a variety of reasons-- it makes us better at politics and rule which is highly relevant the end goal of our stint in this particular universe, anyway. We'd need a keen understanding of political machinery in order to either subvert or start a state, and then at which point control 9/10ths of the Human Sphere. Aside from the fact that this is probably a sufficiently sized landmass such that overwhelming power wouldn't be enough to keep everyone quelled, it seems to me to be exceedingly difficult to stay in control for fifty years straight without being able to outmaneuver one's opponents. Take note of how we basically have to learn an entirely new world, which I am sure that everything in this build optimizes for. I would also imagine that better decision-making leads to more detailed and more cool build-vote options. Also, Gisena.

I voted Force Unto because fist
 
Rihaku said:
Well, you did kind of 'win' in that it probably wouldn't be practical for any other faction to oppose Governance with Imperia, the Nettlespine, and the Sleeper (with the power of the Monarch) acting as its enforcers. Teal being crippled was a heavy blow but the Monarch's power was just incredibly vast compared to the other students.

So yeah. I guess that manga about Imperia did come true after all! And Arthur got to be at the top of the food chain.

Man is the chain, after all.
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More like man's in chains. That the end of practical opposition to Governance's rule also ended the quest is telling. Arthur had no story to tell beyond her, no dreams of his own, no other relationships strong enough to allow for social conflict. Whatever Beast the Strategist saw in him had long since died, its bones buried beneath Imperia's metaphorical kennel. His devotion and ever-escalating sacrifices painted him into a narrative corner, and the questers who stayed to the bitter end didn't even get an epilogue out of it. But if we want a vision of that world's future, we can just imagine a dainty foot stamping on a human face - forever.

To take a stab at objectivity, Arthur failed to live up to his potential, both as a character and a magician. Focus on the Chain in his Manichean philosophy meant no exploration of the Beast. He had glimmers of potential early on; the write-in that had him spare Charles and give a speech condemning the student body was a strong moment. The only sane and moral man in a world of monsters would've been a solid character. Trying to do good in the face of overwhelming incentives to do otherwise and his own reputation? Navigate a totalitarian bureaucracy while not ignoring the common man? Sign me up. But Arthur never grappled with those dilemmas, because access to Imperia's objectively greater wisdom always won out. The Terrascape was a fascinating setting, with a cool cast. The Ordinal Spiral/Vitalism are among your most interesting systems. Exploring them through the lens of Arthur was... frustrating.

Ugh. I guess this wouldn't be one of your quests if we didn't engage in equine necromancy to relitigate Gardens. At least we'll always have Paris the Strategist.
 
Kurowari said:
Oh man, if Hand of Justice had won though - you better believe I would have voted for Justice in every single vote possible! It was the best possible mix of 'Superhero Justice', 'Ultimate Physical Power', 'Original Muscle Wizard' and 'Red Option' I've seen in these quests.
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It was cool... I do worry that people would have just taken Justice's prescriptions for every action, though. You think Imperia was a domineering presence, how about the force of Objective Justice itself? Would other options even have had a chance?

Talace said:
I voted Force Unto because fist
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*Nods* A wise choice.

Orm Embar said:
More like man's in chains. That the end of practical opposition to Governance's rule also ended the quest is telling. Arthur had no story to tell beyond her, no dreams of his own, no other relationships strong enough to allow for social conflict. Whatever Beast the Strategist saw in him had long since died, its bones buried beneath Imperia's metaphorical kennel.
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Probably not dead, just effectively suborned by the Ego. After all, the Slumber itself encompasses beastly might!

His devotion and ever-escalating sacrifices painted him into a narrative corner, and the questers who stayed to the bitter end didn't even get an epilogue out of it. But if we want a vision of that world's future, we can just imagine a dainty foot stamping on a human face - forever.
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Well, there is still the matter of Enoch himself before the questers could reach their promised land...

Wolfy said:
Just like wounds inflicted by Fell-Handed Stroke, wounds inflicted by Terrascape never heal..
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Choices have consequences!
 
Rihaku said:
Well, there is still the matter of Enoch himself before the questers could reach their promised land...
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Eh, Enoch was incapable of proactive offensive actions due to mental contamination from the Countenance. No doubt Imperia knew this and would've just eventually outscaled him with Arthur's assistance. If the boss fight won't trigger itself, you can grind in relative peace while only worrying about schemes, and the board was swiftly emptying of pieces that could stand against her.
Rihaku said:
It was cool... I do worry that people would have just taken Justice's prescriptions for every action, though. You think Imperia was a domineering presence, how about the force of Objective Justice itself? Would other options even have had a chance?
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It's a more appealing arc by far. Standing against the world as the proverbial tree beside the river of truth (or Justice), with only an amoral Spirit and possibly Caroline on our side? Glorious. I did wonder why the Strategist offered the Hand of Justice as a choice, but given the amount of injustice on Earth we would've had no end of conflict for it, one man against the world. So many great scenes that could've been. How would Imperia have handled a morality debate against Objective Justice? What fate do the madmen and monsters populating the Terrascape deserve? Does Enoch's long shadow constitute a mitigating factor, or would we be doling out death sentences left and right?

If a Terrascape reboot with a different protagonist had been in the offing, I might have gone for it.
 
[X] Auspicious Vanguard
[X] Force Unto

I'm not a fan of double mental contamination despite its competency, and crippling our growth is basically an immediate no. That leaves these two.
 
Rihaku said:
Yup! Though the mental contamination is concerning. Luckily you got Gisena and not, say, a young Porcelain!
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Eyes lasers redeem a multitude of sins! Can't imagine she would be down with helping a tyrant out with the task of conquest, though. Magic being to serve man and never to rule over him was her whole deal, but for a one-scene character who could've been the death of the protagonist she was cool.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by runeblue360 on May 22, 2020 at 4:48 AM, finished with 103 posts and 45 votes.
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Two possible tallies. Either from the PSA, or from the Heart Vote. Both have different results. Praetor > Force>Vanguard or Vanguard >Force=Praetor

Either way, Unshattered is distinctively.. unpopular.
Adhoc vote count started by Orm Embar on May 22, 2020 at 4:49 AM, finished with 48 posts and 16 votes.
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Orm Embar said:
I did wonder why the Strategist offered the Hand of Justice as a choice, but given the amount of injustice on Earth we would've had no end of conflict for it.
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The only way you can betray someone is if they have expectations of you. If the entire world sees you as a superhero and trusts you to uphold Justice against all comers, they'd never see the betrayal coming. Captain America's passive depth gain would be through the roof and god help us if he decides to Hail Hydra.
 
I'm trying to see how Game of the Year (from AST original) is in any way superior to King's Scepter. King's Scepter comes with To Shatter Heaven built-in, and then Game of the Year is stated to be weaker in absolute terms. Yet they're equal proportionally? What does GoTY have that King's Scepter doesn't?

Is it because our protaganist already has an existing magic system (Accretion) for King's Scepter to be 'grafted on'?
 
Yeah, approval voting ending up kinda milquetoast moderate was probably always going to be the case. The reason why Vendetta won despite that was because Vendetta was actually two votes and all, and the other suboptioned vote, Dread, didn't have nearly the same level of attraction to separate groups as splitting Remittances did.
Still, I don't think tallies from the PSA are strictly accurate; consider that voting for only one option is still possible, and in fact is the most powerful way to support a single option. In this case, voting twice is actually more like a vote against the third option, since Unshattered doesn't exist.
(also, I'm too lazy to revote in the absence of a strong secondary preference)
 
Shard said:
I'm trying to see how Game of the Year (from AST original) is in any way superior to King's Scepter. King's Scepter comes with To Shatter Heaven built-in, and then Game of the Year is stated to be weaker in absolute terms. Yet they're equal proportionally? What does GoTY have that King's Scepter doesn't?

Is it because our protaganist already has an existing magic system (Accretion) for King's Scepter to be 'grafted on'?
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TL;DR: Seram was a scrub and the hero wasn't.

To elaborate: Seram wasn't even as good in a fight as the average person, you need only look at his physical stats in the beginning to make that reality plainly apparent. Meanwhile, though the Hero was vastly diminished, he was still the equivalent of a trained soldier of that world. Even without the magic, such a person would be five to ten levels above Seram, maybe more for someone with the experience of a grizzled veteran like the Hero. Naturally, his version of the immediate power Remittance would be stronger since his Geas challenges would be worse.
 
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[x] Nightmare Praetor
[X] Unshattered

Is this perhaps the opportunity for Unshattered to stage a comeback? Just with this single vote its chances almost doubled!

Don't really see why people focus so much on 'potential' and loss of limbs. I've got a sinking feeling people believe we're in this for the long game because of the deceptive 2500 years limit. Yet we're better served accomplishing this as quickly as possible because of Apocrypha - it can scale without limit, whereas some of our best scaling comes from seeking out synergies in disparate magical systems, which we can't really do if we stay in a single world.

With this vote we'd skip years of Progress, and while we wouldn't have access to Shattered Heaven anymore, we'd be seriously ahead of schedule when it comes to Apocrypha and could take on rewarding and difficult tasks with less worry. Not so much nebulous potential as concrete gains we could use to accelerate even more.

Its new version even upgrades our Limit Break! What more could a man (or woman) wish for?
 
Unelemental said:
Is this perhaps the opportunity for Unshattered to stage a comeback? Just with this single vote its chances almost doubled!
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Come on Unshattered! Just imagine, the hero restored to a truly impressive fraction of his former glory! How much of a joy, how much of a relief, to once again grasp that which he'd thought forever lost!

Unelemental said:
Don't really see why people focus so much on 'potential' and loss of limbs. I've got a sinking feeling people believe we're in this for the long game because of the deceptive 2500 years limit. Yet we're better served accomplishing this as quickly as possible because of Apocrypha - it can scale without limit, whereas some of our best scaling comes from seeking out synergies in disparate magical systems, which we can't really do if we stay in a single world.
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There are more things in heaven and earth...
 
runeblue360 said:
TL;DR: Seram was a scrub and the hero wasn't.

To elaborate: Seram wasn't even as good in a fight as the average person, you need only look at his physical stats in the beginning to make that reality plainly apparent. Meanwhile, though the Hero was vastly diminished, he was still the equivalent of a trained soldier of that world. Even without the magic, such a person would be five to ten levels above Seram, maybe more for someone with the experience of a grizzled veteran like the Hero.
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Yet virginity seems to beat competency every single time. How the Cursebearers haven't descended into murderous internecine strife after learning about it, I have no idea.

[ ] Doom of Rivalry
-[ ] Doom of the Culling
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...Oh wait.
 
Unelemental said:
With this vote we'd skip years of Progress
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Thing is, we still have a minimum of fifty years of ruling. Accelerating a couple of years in our build is not as valuable in the face of that, especially given the drawbacks. We should take care to pace ourselves, to pick just the right combination of immediate power and long term scaling. Unshattered is a bit too extreme.
 
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