[X] Gondar Hrsillimas
[X] None

Preliminary vote otherwise.

The other old man gardener guy would've been fun to chill with for Hunger. Get into a heated debate about which is better, Gardening or Fishing. Old man gives Hunger some tips at being a dad. Then they fight over who has the cuter offspring.

But both have age, and though Hunger was treacherous enough to bring down a Tyrant. The other dude is part of the government. That's like, 10x worse.

But yieprelimvote. Might change my mind. Might not. Maybe.
 
Not gonna lie, that poem about us defeating the Temple is pretty sick and like the biggest reason I'm so cool with it. It's also Once and Future but for blood, and since blood stuff is such a heavy part of our arsenal these days, it's useful immediately while opening up for tons of versatility in the future. It's pretty good. And can be snap-bought, meaning we can get ourselves out of sticky situation without missing out on Trinity. It's a great option.
 
Also, jeez, we are spoiled for choice in AST I as compared to Even Further Beyond. I'm not sure whether the thread's Arete generation is on par with or below the Beyond Point generation for EFB, but every single decision we've had recently seems to involve Arete expenditure and we've got like what? 5 or 6 EFB-equivalents to pursue/choose from? Man, we could only aim for like 2 EFBs initially in that quest (Truth and then All Paths once we neared 10 BPs) and we didn't even consider future EFBs all that much due to that stuff being so far away while now we're aiming for at least 3 EFBs for Special Advancements and arguing over what kind of EFBs themes we want to invest in, all while spending Arete on individual effects and stat boosts.

Not that I'm really opposed to any particular spending we've done recently or dislike the discussion on the appeal of each individual EFB-equivalent; I enjoy reading why some people prefer the Forebear's Blade and going for the Stances or going for Ring lore and trying to get Ruling Ring or acquiring utility by elevating the Evening Sky. It's just kind of surreal that we're arguing over plans that could cost a minimum expenditure of 75 Arete in terms of long-term goals.

There's really an overwhelming amount of shinies to chase in this quest as compared to EFB in my opinion and trying to maintain my perspective for the future and cling to my original strategy is difficult to do with each blurb Rihaku drops on me, lol :V
 
I love Crimson Flare. With Selene we can just hang around, gather information, save arete and figure out who can be convinced to join us or defect. When we have enough Arete, buy Crimson Flair to tear out the civilization from the inside by giving them an alternative, far better than killing them honestly...With the empowered Ring we can even heal our Armament to an 7 Rank or more I suspect.

Any other option might force us to fight and spend our Arete on the Stances, which mean All-Defeating Stance starts looking like an good idea. So anyone one who doesn't want more SORD should unite behind the option perfectly suited to our goal here and in the long term.
 
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I mean, if he attacks us outside the Temple he's just fucked. He's fighting Hunger, Gisena, and Versch.


We can't pick Silver before the Gondar fight, unless we randomly get picks.
Due to the wording of Gondar's blurb, we can likely do something before entering the temple, and we are likely to be ambushed if we do so, It's likely that we can get one option before the fight. Honestly, he seems less and less appealing, there is a risk of he just killing us outright if we are unlucky.

Also, how does the +2 Rank with blood work against peer opponents? Peer in the sense of Hunger's current rank(5 if taken) or his effective rank(7), if it's the latter, I feel like crimson + Avercarn would be ideal, because we can cripple him, since he would be below our effective rank.
 
[X] Selune vi Tries [Cost: 4 Arete]
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare
- 25 Arete. (0 picks, but requires Chief Dominion)

Too scared of an arrow to the liver. I was leery of betraying her, but we can seek to turn her instead.
 
Not gonna lie, that poem about us defeating the Temple is pretty sick and like the biggest reason I'm so cool with it. It's also Once and Future but for blood, and since blood stuff is such a heavy part of our arsenal these days, it's useful immediately while opening up for tons of versatility in the future. It's pretty good. And can be snap-bought, meaning we can get ourselves out of sticky situation without missing out on Trinity. It's a great option.
Exactly, the snap-buying is what makes it so good! We don't have to be locked into spending 7 Arete on a stance that either might not be too useful in the greater build or force us to take a full EFB to maximize efficiency. This is a powerful emergency button, but also a tremendous buy on its own! We're already at 16.5 Arete, we realistically only need 2 or 3 updates before it becomes relevant. I reckon that if we can take Gondar, we'll be at a calamitous level of strength by the time we've infiltrated.
 
Arete generation will likely increase if we successfully infiltrate the civilization, Selene us our best bet with that. It will give is more lore to speculate about, more characters etc.

Our greatest weakness currently is our shit Rank, Ring also fixes that to some extent.
 
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Also, crimson offers an reliable pick grinding method, since we can heal Ver, and grind high-rank astral monsters. Highly synergetic with Total Eclipse.
 
Current vote count?

Especially because we have Wraith Form. So even if he comes out of nowhere and surprises us and kills us in one hit... it still won't be the end of us.

Wraith form is only for retreating, it's too weak to be relevant in serious combat.

Also, Silver would be ideal against Gondar, if we pick it before the fight, because we would be able to no-sell an exoteric effect, and our ago would likely allow us to avoid the rest. Meanwhile Crimson would cripple Avercarn, unless I missread the blurb.

Crimson wouldn't cripple Avecarn, as he's Rank 6.5. It would improve your odds in a direct fight against him substantially, but Hero-Defeating + Weapon-Defeating Stance would probably be better for this specific foe.

I mean, if he attacks us outside the Temple he's just fucked. He's fighting Hunger, Gisena, and Versch.

In what way would that disadvantage him compared to the alternatives?

He's master of attacking from a distance.

He will likely attack from surprise, If he aims for our companions first, they are likely dead. If he aims for us, we have good odds of dying, especially if he uses an poisoned arrow.

He's not likely to oneshot you even with a poisoned arrow, but consider all the things that an expert Ranger with access to exotic arrows and an informational / stealth / tracking advantage could do to make your life difficult...


The T. A. Lace

Myrmidons of the Pixel Empire wield the Lattice of Total Annihilation, affectionately referred to as "Ta lace," with great care, for its powers of hyper-exponentiation are well feared among all prudent-thinking sapients. Though mastery requires intense self control and inhuman levels of manipulator-precision, the results are well worth the effort: a single Myrmidon deployed across Dimensional Gate can, if unchecked, overwhelm rival ontologies within days, as the self-replicating lattice devours and assimilates all free conceptual space. Fragile in the moment of conception, underwhelming in its first hours, but given a surfeit of time and resources it quickly builds into an unstoppable tide.

More difficult is the struggle to extract useful utility effects via the creation of dead-end evolutionary trees, forestalling and containing the rampant proflieration of Lace in service of an unintended purpose. Many such efforts result in the unintentional annihilation of entire categorical domains, yet the work proceeds apace. Such is the price of power.
 
Consider also that rangers often have poisoned arrows - a mainstay, even - and Hunger's liver is not healed...

Gondar voters, note the above, that fight will not be the cake walk you think it will be, I'd rather take the higher rank fight then try our luck against that 400% damage buff and a Hunter absolutely determined to kill us.
 
I wonder if we can convince Selene to defect by simply offering her the saved Moon Ring and offering her an ride to Human Sphere, her name seem to fit with that pretty well.
 
[X] Gondar Hrsillimas
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare
- 25 Arete. (0 picks, but requires Chief Dominion)

And now to explain this vote.


We should pick Gondar. Yes, we voted for infiltration, but that's actually partly to our benefit since it won't work well on him. Gondar will come to us. Outside the Temple. This is a good thing, because it means that Letrizia piloting Versh as well as Gisena will be able to assist us in fighting him. We'll have more options.

Additionally, we are vastly stronger than we were when we fought Vanreir, and Gondar's Rank is barely higher than ours so he's substantially more manageable in a fight that "potentially not completely suicidal" like fighting Avecarn is.

And lastly, killing him doesn't destroy our capacity for infiltration. It might even be able to serve as an opportunity to further ingratiate ourselves with the Inner Temple's bureaucracy. We can come into the temple after killing him and if they mention "Hey Gondar went after you and here you are not being dead." Hunger can say "He was with you? I thought he was a Voyaging Realm brigand. That's kind of upsetting, I was clearing my head away from the Temple, but since it's not a deal-breaker... May I have his job?".



As for the Ring, here's the thing. Half of you are fucking terrified of picking up the Ruling Ring. It's an objective fact. The words Ruling Ring cannot be mentioned without 3 people or more mentioning the words Contest of Primacy shortly after. This presents a path to still getting that EFB and assuaging your fears in its pursuit.
  1. The Azure Ring will bend the knee to the Crimson Ring, so that means we can safely keep it and wield its power, instead of destroying it (and destroying it was always an option, so don't say it wasn't; its Call asks for salvation or death)
  2. Picking up Crimson Flare does not remove the ability to piecemeal Ruling Ring stuff
    1. We can still buy the Dominions and Preeminances for War and Passion, and we don't lose Chief Dominion, so minus removing our Arete stockpile this doesn't put us that far back from earning Ruling Ring
  3. This simplifies purchase decisions in the future - Augment Dominion: Blood I, II, & III, Sublime Transfusion, and Ennobling are all folded into its purview so we won't have to spend Picks and Arete on them; and their effects are far more magnified this way than they would have been otherwise
    1. People were really enthusiastic about Ennobling & the Augment/Sublime combinations because they allowed for huge opportunities for offering healing and empowerment as diplomatic options for Hunger. That is still true now, but the value they would offer is vastly increased.
    2. This massively opens up the options available to us for post-temple nation-building (which we'll need to do at some point) and also will let us massively enhance Letrizia and Gisena's personal capabilities; never again will we have to worry for their safety, for they will kick ass and chew bubblegum like few could contest.
  4. The benefits will not disappear when we do pick up Ruling Ring, and it offers capabilities the Ruling Ring didn't (unless they fall under the blanket of reality warping, in which case we have been HIDEOUSLY underestimating the strength of the Ruling Ring's reality warping). If we get this, the Ruling Ring will to all expectations be even stronger for its addition. So we would, in fact, be adding substantial value to that EFB once we do get it.
This Ring is, in all ways I can see, a phenomenal option to be able to pick up, and will objectively enhance our capabilities in the interim period while we are bootstrapping ourselves into enough power to be comfortable setting off the contest of primacy when we pick up its sibling EFB.
 
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[ ] Gondar Hrsillimas
Seems a shoe in for the Apocryphal Curse unless we decide to kill him before the mitigation ends but on the other hand his faster speed and access to ranged exotic attacks might allow him to force us to accumulate complications and employ hit and run tactics. If we only have better protection from Evening Sky so that it pays the price instead of us...

[ ] High Marshall Avecarn
The strongest among the negotiators with an active rank and soul evocation to boot but lower stats closes the gap between power. A snap buy of Hero-Defeating Stance can easily take care of him in case talks go sour what with his Administrator seem to imply.

[ ] Selune vi Tries [Cost: 4 Arete]
Defensive rank close to ours, superhuman appearance, charisma and social skills. Combine that with Arete cost, an unstatted bodyguard with unknown but probably good combat powers plus being a Council member risking Tyrant procs and hahaha nope. There is also the fact that she might catch on later what with probably having to stick with her or she with us.

[X] High Marshall Avecarn

My reasoning is that Gondar probably requires a martial stance snap buy to not get hobbled by another complication to add to our collection and he might be the source of our interesting times these round. I am also against Selune because she probably requires multiple deception rolls and cost Arete. At least the other ones gives martial stances. Avecarn meanwhile will only require us to win one social combat or in case things go to hell Hero-Defeating Stance which is good against individually strong opponents making it a good buy in any case.

And now let me complain a little.

Came back and saw people decided that we are engaging in social combat now and forgetting about the Doom of the Tyrant. You know, that one curse that can't be mitigated or we don't have plans for. Which could be bypassed by stealth. People were saying save Arete then we are shown the options and all of them pretty much requires Arete to access or to not again engage in life or death battle which just saddle us with complications. We are only at the first stage of this infiltration and already problems arise. If only I'm not suffering from the Doom of the Phoneposter so that I can participate more...

Editted for typos.
 
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[X] Gondar Hrsillimas
[X] None

Preliminary vote otherwise.

The other old man gardener guy would've been fun to chill with for Hunger. Get into a heated debate about which is better, Gardening or Fishing. Old man gives Hunger some tips at being a dad. Then they fight over who has the cuter offspring.

But both have age, and though Hunger was treacherous enough to bring down a Tyrant. The other dude is part of the government. That's like, 10x worse.

But yieprelimvote. Might change my mind. Might not. Maybe.

Let me encourage you to flip to putting a point of Arete into Crimson Flare!

-> Makes Primacy overall safer
-> Fulfills build requirements for Trinity
-> Immediate power
-> Rank buff soo we are less Ranklet
-> Can be snapbought
-> Create army of supersoldiers
-> Big fucking Mech buff

The T. A. Lace

Myrmidons of the Pixel Empire wield the Lattice of Total Annihilation, affectionately referred to as "Ta lace," with great care, for its powers of hyper-exponentiation are well feared among all prudent-thinking sapients. Though mastery requires intense self control and inhuman levels of manipulator-precision, the results are well worth the effort: a single Myrmidon deployed across Dimensional Gate can, if unchecked, overwhelm rival ontologies within days, as the self-replicating lattice devours and assimilates all free conceptual space. Fragile in the moment of conception, underwhelming in its first hours, but given a surfeit of time and resources it quickly builds into an unstoppable tide.

More difficult is the struggle to extract useful utility effects via the creation of dead-end evolutionary trees, forestalling and containing the rampant proflieration of Lace in service of an unintended purpose. Many such efforts result in the unintentional annihilation of entire categorical domains, yet the work proceeds apace. Such is the price of power.

I am truly blessed to have a Quester Magic blurb from the big man himself

perhaps this is a reference to the Myrmidons we encountered on the way to the Temple. I wonder if we got really lucky by demolishing them early.

I love the idea of a magic system that revolves around assimilating free conceptual space and escalating rapidly-- and that escalation has its own traps, pools of diminishing returns that entrap hyper-exponentiation. I wonder, however, if a magic system can revolve around the opposite of descalation-> will have to think about this, maybe making a blurb soon
 
[X] Selune vi Tries [Cost: 4 Arete]
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson flare

With things clarified, I think I prefer this option. Both would be high risk fight, this option is safe, gives us Intel, and allows us to grind arete.
 
Silver of Evening is very nice but I prefer Total Eclipse for our Evening Sky EFB. Crimson Flare gives us something to actually offer the ring civilization to avoid having to murder them all to save the azure ring.
 
Hm. Would something like this suffice?

Echo Conjuration, an art of recreation and of great depth. Its rudiments begin with the recreation of ephemeral things, such as sounds or images, before graduating by degrees towards larger scale, more permanent, more material recreations, from the conjuration of observed objects all the way up to the instantiation of mythic archetypes to shape the course of history along paths it has trod before. It also possesses a secret tech, the Fourth Transformation, which inverts the repetitive, recreative aspect of Echo Conjuration into a self-avoiding cascade, the creation of the New Matter.
 
Also would appreciate a magical system!

It seems like both fights are troublesome for current Hunger, Gondar being very ill-suited for our current build. A sneak attack would be crippling...
Silver of Evening is very nice but I prefer Total Eclipse for our Evening Sky EFB. Crimson Flare gives us something to actually offer the ring civilization to avoid having to murder them all to save the azure ring.
Crimson also increases the valor of total eclipse by diminishing some of the valor of pillars, since Crimson would give us a way to heal Ver and grind picks.
 
[X] Gondar Hrsillimas
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare
- 25 Arete. (0 picks, but requires Chief Dominion)

Changing my vote after thinking about it more.

Given the risks associated with Infiltration and the danger we can be in; this is essentially a proxy vote for Trinity vs All on Blade. If you vote for None here, you essentially are expressing to be totally fine if the only immediate power EFBs are Blade ones should the need ever arise. And there's a very real chance it could, in fact, arise. Given this, the vote for Flare is the one that maximally guarantees the acquisition of Trinity, since a power option will remain available to us in in the direst circumstances. So for safety, I will vote for it.

Also the blurb's sick you guys, that poem was sick. Sick.
Adhoc vote count started by BrainInAJar on Jun 29, 2020 at 2:18 AM, finished with 118 posts and 30 votes.
 
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[X] High Marshall Avecarn
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson flare

I'm really liking Crimson Flare ngl. It's a snap buy which makes the option very convenient. It offers great deal of scaling, combat and general utility making it pretty balanced choice. We get 0.7 Rank, an equivalent of The Kinslayer, with all obvious benefits of increased Rank, plus scaling Rank for purpose of combat and utility, even if effect is perhaps somewhat weaker than Once and Future.

As a big plus, it's also very relevant to current PLOT.

Unsure about Marshall or Archer for now.
 
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