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A Simple Transaction I

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George said:
I mean, I think there is a guarantee a low cost surgecasting won't have the same utility as Vertex, but it has power in exchange for that.
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It's the fact that even comparable utility could only be used to the fullest when we're emotionally invested in it's use that I don't like. It says it abhors planning, and I like to get utility so that I can plan around it. The difference between a bonus and a buff to me, basically.
 
If we were planning on spending enough of our immediate time mastering a magic ability, we probably would have just taken Mage Lord when it came up. We're clearly continuing down the path of SORD battle right now (due to preexisting momentum and the Ring's growth parameters). My guess is that, especially now that we're going to have Cut Through, we're going to be spending most of our 'free" time advancing down that path, and whatever magic taken here will take a backseat. Honestly, the consideration should be more biased towards how the magic will help Letrizia in the near term.

To that end, Surgecraft seems like a mistake, while Vertex seems synergistic. The only issue being that Vertex has a strong anti-synergy with being exposed to Verschlengorge's Decimation. I mean, her mentality for the magic is optimal, but her resources are depleted. So in the end I imagine we'll have to find a way to buff her lifespan up out of trouble, though going by how the thread was talking about the issue before, we were going to do that already. And Blood advancements or Ruling Ring probably offer a way towards that with just picks or low Arete choices. So really it's just that Vertex is resource constrained for her in the immediate term.
 
George said:
I mean, I think there is a guarantee a low cost surgecasting won't have the same utility as Vertex, but it has power in exchange for that. Personally I don't plan to invest Arete or lifeforce or picks into this magic system whichever choice we make and will just hope we can pick up something with a bit of use without investing in it right now.
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An additional argument against Surgecasting is that direct magical attack competes in the Action Economy with direct Sword attack. Any combat time spent on Surgecasting is spent not spamming 7x speed ranged Fell Handed Strokes enhanced by the Sword Praxis.

By contrast, Vertex provides passive improvements to our equipment and tools, and facilitates our use of Nightmare Praetor to prepare unique tactics & traps. Vertex also shines in social situations where our sword's raw power might be sub-optimal.
 
I honestly just picked Vertex because of its utility. While it's vulnerable in combat to Nullity it's never going to be exposed to Nullity if we say it for say scouting or buffing our Cha.
 
Enohthree said:
It's the fact that even comparable utility could only be used to the fullest when we're emotionally invested in it's use that I don't like. It says it abhors planning, and I like to get utility so that I can plan around it. The difference between a bonus and a buff to me, basically.
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Zampano said:
An additional argument against Surgecasting is that direct magical attack competes in the Action Economy with direct Sword attack. Any combat time spent on Surgecasting is spent not spamming 7x speed ranged Fell Handed Strokes enhanced by the Sword Praxis.

By contrast, Vertex provides passive improvements to our equipment and tools, and facilitates our use of Nightmare Praetor to prepare unique tactics & traps. Vertex also shines in social situations where our sword's raw power might be sub-optimal.
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these are excellent points!

Byzantine said:
The higher the tier the easier that sort of thing is, and more difficult it is to defend against.
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that part's true yes; I suppose in the end I might be quibbling about terminology.
 
Zampano said:
n additional argument against Surgecasting is that direct magical attack competes in the Action Economy with direct Sword attack. Any combat time spent on Surgecasting is spent not spamming 7x speed ranged Fell Handed Strokes enhanced by the Sword Praxis.
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This is slightly nonsensical. Why would Hunger use Surgecasting if it isn't as good as Fell Handed Strokes or aren't more appropriate than our sword attacks? Hunger would spam 7x speed ranged Fell Handed Strokes enhanced by the Sword Praxis if it's better than using Surge, and use Surge if it's better than swording at the time.
 
Personally, I think both Vertex and Surgecast aren't particularly useful for Hunger - Vertex requires a lot of study time that we don't have boosts for to get the most out of, and is pretty anti-synergistic with Gisena since a single blast from her can wipe out tons of work.

Surgecasting doesn't have those issues, but is basically a single pretty narrow superpower as opposed to a whole magic system, unless we invest more Arete into it than we'd really prefer.

However, I think Surgecasting is much more useful for Letrizia than Vertex is - it can scale up to planetary or even higher levels without that much trouble, while I'm having issues imagining Vertex being at all relevant once Vers gets healed back up to full power.

So I think Surgecasting is superior when considered from the perspective of the entire parties composition.
 
Byzantine said:
But we can only take it at a purchace point, which requires we have picks.

Otherwise we could have bought it this vote.
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Are you sure it's not because we were down .3? QM said we need permission to go into Arete debt.

It's not a problem, speaking relatively. But I still would like to hear some ideas as to what we'll do with those picks if we can't +1 to Ruinous Valor during it. A couple more Echoes just isn't doing it for me.
 
Vertex drones can be simply bought. It is not the maximum exploitation value, yes, but it is still a lot of value we can buy with currency that is not Arete. Like, right now.
 
Box Lunch said:
Are you sure it's not because we were down .3? QM said we need permission to go into Arete debt.

It's not a problem, speaking relatively. But I still would like to hear some ideas as to what we'll do with those picks if we can't +1 to Ruinous Valor during it. A couple more Echoes just isn't doing it for me.
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Iridescence would be rather good if we do acquire Vertex, which seems increasingly likely.
 
Fell-Handed Stroke damages mind and soul; the Power of Ruin just makes your attacks do more of whatever kind of damage it was doing. It's especially effective at cutting through defenses.
 
[X] Relaxing at the Hot Springs

Ah, fuck it. I simply like Surgecraft more, however much I try to convince myself that Vertex is a better idea. We came here for Letrizia after all, and making her personally not defenseless and not useless is rather valuable.
 
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I mean, Bits and Funnels are classic parts of the one of the most influential mech shows ever, so it's actually more in-line with her aesthetic then Surgecraft, really. I don't think it will be irrelevant in mech-to-mech combat, especially if the Vertices can be inset into Vershlengorge directly. Even if the raw power they provide might not be enough, there are plenty utility options she can get out of it as well. A Vertice that provides relevant combat healing, one that buffs her Wits, or hell, even one that reduces the effects of Tiredness can be useful, given how Shrouds work. And we already know that crafted Vetices can be incredibly synergistic with Rank; imagine if with Totality her personally crafted Vertices get boosted as well...
 
Who knows maybe with totality letrizia can use the life drained by decimation with her armament. Further more it hasn't been mentioned how far vertex scales particularly the ones that have life costs. Not to mention I get the impression the one could just accumulate a crap ton of vertices to an absurd degree over time.
 
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