Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
And killing the extra knights gets one pick. ONE.
What exactly stops us from rolling again while hunting stragglers?
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
If we could fully leave the Temple I'd agree with retreat. This place is overleveled for us and coming back next month would be ideal. But right now retreating just means we'll have to reroll the base encounter when we come back, and do you want to risk it being something stronger?
Cause we have a set base encounter and random encounters are much less common.
- Location
- Pindorama
Bordering on Tired? There's no need for hyperbole. If Stragglers carried a risk of us becoming Tired, the option would say so, as it does for all options that would do so. And funny that you acknowledge that Arete has compounding value while refusing to do so for picks. But picks are far more easily spent than searching for a seven Arete option.
The option does say we'd avoid other monsters. If we Wait we'd essentially have to risk something random again the next day.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
One additional pick. There is a significant difference, as it can put us over the threshold for 3 or 4 pick options. That's the entire reason extra picks are so valuable.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Where would the extra picks come from?
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
The next fight we'll inevitably get into? Not every update ends on a build vote...
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
That's just an urban legend, you can't believe everything you hear.
- Location
- Pindorama
Are you being purposefully dense? All of this has been argued before.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
So the plan is to drain MC's time and energy to get 1 pick, then hopefully roll well on a random encounter to get another 2-3 picks when MC is actively avoiding monsters except for the scrub knights?
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Please reread the wording, because I'm not sure what you think you are arguing, but it isn't what is actually on offer.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
It's in the option itself.
- Location
- Pindorama
No, we roll after he returns from checking the doors and hopefully leaves for a while. It's in the update. If the hunt makes us tired, we can rest then.
As quoted above, we will go back to check the doors anyway. The hunt will be over by then, so we will plan out our next move.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
So, at what point do we get the extra 2/3 pick option? Because.. I'm not seeing it?
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
...Okay. I'm not sure what is difficult about this.
This adds +1 to the number of picks we would already have gotten on our next experience spend - usually 2. Thus we will likely get a total of 3 picks. Maybe 4 if there is a boss interrupt or we end up having to fight a swarm.
I am very confused, after all the times we have had this type of option, now is when you suddenly get confused and think it means something different.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
I don't understand. Do people think that we can become powerful enough to overcome this place through buying stats and 2 Arete options? What we need is an massive increase in power that only 7 Arete options can hope to provide.
Wait and Hope + Brute force voters have an viable plan to pull that off. What's yours? Hope that while killing a few mooks we don't roll for strong enemies that will make us waste FOR for low arete picks and exhaustion? That with just +stat and low arete options, we can become powerful enough to safely grind this place?
Edit: We need to fucking finally bite the bullet and start taking +Arete options and stop relying on fanwork to barely scrap by.
Wait and Hope + Brute force voters have an viable plan to pull that off. What's yours? Hope that while killing a few mooks we don't roll for strong enemies that will make us waste FOR for low arete picks and exhaustion? That with just +stat and low arete options, we can become powerful enough to safely grind this place?
Edit: We need to fucking finally bite the bullet and start taking +Arete options and stop relying on fanwork to barely scrap by.
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- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Eventually, actually, yes, we probably could. Rapid stat growth is part of what makes progression cursebearers so powerful. We'll like outscale this encounter we needed to go to our second form for entirely by the time we finish hunting stragglers. Hell, I suspect by that point we'll be a match for the reinforcement waves. A 7 Arete option will make it much, much faster though.
Yes. +stats is a significant increase in power.
Besides, the difference in the plan is 1 arete and not getting any more fights without rerolling our base encounter, or 1 additional pick while avoiding boss interrupts.
We *can* generate that 1 arete, though it is rather painful to force. At the same time to actually spend a 7 arete option we first need to get in such a fight, which would require Rage near-certainly. Which is unfortunate as we would then need to sacrifice a pick (as we are not going to wait for 8 arete).
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Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Wait and Hope
[X] Swift as Death
My dude, we got the knights on a roll of 37 out of 100. Chances are, unless we get the exact same thing roll again, the next spending point enemies we face with either be irrelevant (in which case the pick doesn't matter) or provide a 7 Arete. If that's the case, we'd be better off taking it because there's a bunch of 7 Arete options that provide enormous amounts of immediate power, none of which have the downsides of the immediate power 3 pick options we've seen.
[X] Swift as Death
My dude, we got the knights on a roll of 37 out of 100. Chances are, unless we get the exact same thing roll again, the next spending point enemies we face with either be irrelevant (in which case the pick doesn't matter) or provide a 7 Arete. If that's the case, we'd be better off taking it because there's a bunch of 7 Arete options that provide enormous amounts of immediate power, none of which have the downsides of the immediate power 3 pick options we've seen.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
This feels like a bad combination. Why get Swift as Death if not planning to use it?
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This isn't intended to be a combination, it's tactical voting on my part. I like Swift as Death and think it could do a lot for our power growth here but in the probable case Brute Force wins instead, I'd rather we Wait and Hope. If Swift enjoys a resurgence, I'll switch to something else.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Ah, makes sense then. I was just confused.
...Also, why are you always drawn by power options that require us get closer to death? I'd find that rather concerning.
- Location
- Pindorama
What the hell are you even arguing?
To put this argument categorically:
We have seen mooks give picks, but not 7 Arete spend options. Unless the first thing we fight after whatever choice we make here has an 7 arete option, the pick is better. especially considering thread activity can get us to 7 Arete anyway. The extra point in Wait isn't going to do anything until we actually fight that strong monster, because the thread wants to save. Right now, we can vote for an extra pick so we are better positioned after we come back from checking the doors.
If what we fight doesn't give us a 7 Arete expenditure, profit. If we trigger Rage, we can just give up the extra pick from hunting and get the 7 Arete options through thread efforts.
We can't spend the Arete on a 7 option until we fight something strong enough to do so. So gaining power to do so viably is a more reliable strategy than just waiting and hoping for the dice. Thanks to picks, we don't need Arete to get stronger, so we can save even then.
Is a low roll good or bad for us? Or is it just the roll for the enemy strength? Regardless, we are stronger right now, so if we roll average we'd get something like the Knights again. If we actually find something irrelevant, then picks is still better because we can directly generate Arete from thread efforts and this gives more time to do so, while that is not the case for picks.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
Only +Stats plan relies on being continuously lucky enough to not roll for an strong enemy. That's almost certain to cause us to prematurely use FOR and get in the exact same situation you warned against.
The Main goal here should be decreasing the amount of time we are forced to solely depend on FOR. Wait and Hope accomplishes that by saving Arete, strategizing and figuring out if a path of retreat is possible. We can safely grind after that, when we invietably come face to face with an enemy mightier than us while hunting mooks, we can use the resulting picks to get an 7 Arete option, hereby making us capable of not depending on FOR alone. That's how we snowball without taking undue risks.
The only difference between this plan and picking off stragglers is a measure of patience. One gets into grinding right away, the other waits, and prepares before jumping straight into action.
The Main goal here should be decreasing the amount of time we are forced to solely depend on FOR. Wait and Hope accomplishes that by saving Arete, strategizing and figuring out if a path of retreat is possible. We can safely grind after that, when we invietably come face to face with an enemy mightier than us while hunting mooks, we can use the resulting picks to get an 7 Arete option, hereby making us capable of not depending on FOR alone. That's how we snowball without taking undue risks.
The only difference between this plan and picking off stragglers is a measure of patience. One gets into grinding right away, the other waits, and prepares before jumping straight into action.
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- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I mean the only difference in the plans is the question of if we can generate enough arete. Thing is the hunting plans gives us more time with which *to* generate arete, so we're only losing a fractional amount of the +1 by not taking it while gaining a full +1 pick.
- Location
- Pindorama
Seriously, when it comes to Form of Rage; 1 Pick= 1 Arete. If we don't need Rage, we get to benefit from the extra pick. If we do need it, we haven't lost anything.