I mean it is a common trope that you don't find the best loot by charging in blindly and murdering everything but by purposefully combing the area for hidden doors and secret stashes. Gisena for engineering + ring affinity for a better connection to the temple + conservative for a slow and measured approach gives us the best chance at teasing out whatever secrets might lie hidden.

I mean we did find the map for this place hidden inside a fish in a pond our mastery over reality spontaneously generated. The update also contained a suspicious amount of musing on the purpose of the building, the reasons behind the space warping and what it's connection to the ring was.
 
Conservative is frankly anti-synergetic with Rage. We can Rage to get out of extremely dangerous circumstances and benefit from them, but we'll be avoiding them in the first place, so the 7 Arete are all but wasted. Well, maybe it counts as an extremely conservative approach, with us avoiding every danger we can and taking Rage as additional insurance, but then we pretty much abandon all hope of benefiting from this venture.
 
Seems a little unbelievable to argue that the people who set up a settlement outside the dungeon won't be found inside it. The upside of bringing Gisena is that we never have to talk to the people in there, Gisena can just talk to them for us making Tyrant almost impossible to proc! This was 90% of the reason people voted to bring Gisena with us in the first place.

The question is not whether they are inside. It's our likelihood of encountering them. For some reason, the fact that we could encounter people is being blown out of proportion, to the point that it's being treated as much more likely than it is. The Temple is fucking ginourmous (as I said before, it took Vers from evening until morning to cross from their encampment to the main entrance), and we know for sure that there's some definite combat risk in going in. It's not sensible to assume that we need to pick a less effective option for something we know will happen (combat) to hedge against something that's unlikely (social encounter). (In this scenario I'm imagining that adding boosted Gisena's combat ability to our own doesn't match the extremely high offensive potential of Panoply, which is debateable, but I think still easily true.)

Let's look at the possibilities:
1. No Encounter (most likely). Social irrelevant.
2. Adventurer encounter, but they aren't a threat.
2a. Adventurer's aren't demanding or threatening. Social doesn't matter.​
2b. Adventurer's are demanding or threatening. Social doesn't matter, because we can just fight them and win.​
3. Adventurer encounter, but they are a threat. Social matters.
3a. Adventurers aren't demanding or threatening. Social doesn't matter, because we can navigate neutral conversations just fine.​
3b. Adventurers are demanding or threatening. Social doesn't matter, because if they're willing to insist on a arbitrary rule or threaten us they'll attack us and Gisena anyways for our loot.​
Hedging against social encounters assumes that we meet people at all, that those people are effectively strong enough to pose a threat, that they're in a very specific band of degree of behavioral hostility, and lastly that Gisena is capable of both defusing people hostile enough and strong enough to be a threat to us, and defusing us right there next to her as we hear them being hostile. Somehow, I feel this is a lot of assumptions.
 
If people don't want immortal Regiment + Aggressive to win, people should start consolidating behind some other option. Hmm, how safe would Gisena actually be if she comes with us if we go with Aggressive? She can't snowball or grow like us so she's might remain relatively vulnerable and our weak link even with Vanguard.

Edit: We better grind that sweet loyalty + if we go with Vanguard.
 
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I think the lesson here is that adopting a certain characterization comes with responsibilities. If you can't take the heat - or if you don't think the thread collectively can - then don't pick the red options! Saying "I will be an epic hero" is more than just making the decisions of an epic hero. It's performing to that level as well, or those decisions become simply stupid, not epic.
Hmm, while there are some traces of buyer's remorse, it's not to the level of really regretting the switch yet. Though that's mostly because I expect the Temple to be very plot-relevant and thus worth the Arete waste. I can only hope I won't eat these words.
 
If people don't want immortal Regiment + Aggressive to win, people should start consolidating behind some other option. Hmm, how safe would Gisena actually be if she comes with us if we go with Aggressive? She can't snowball or grow like us so she's might remain relatively vulnerable and our weak link even with Vanguard.

Edit: We better grind that sweet loyalty + if we go with Vanguard.
I think she grows in toughness as we do with Vanguard.
 
If people don't want immortal Regiment + Aggressive to win, people should start consolidating behind some other option. Hmm, how safe would Gisena actually be if she comes with us if we go with Aggressive? She can't snowball or grow like us so she's might remain relatively vulnerable and our weak link even with Vanguard.

If your defenses improve (aside from evasiveness) when you advance, then she'll receive those benefits. Remember, Undying Vanguard scales them to you.

Hmm, while there are some traces of buyer's remorse, it's not to the level of really regretting the switch yet. Though that's mostly because I expect the Temple to be very plot-relevant and thus worth the Arete waste. I can only hope I won't eat these words.

Depends what you mean by plot. It was optional, therefore missable, after all!
 
Depends what you mean by plot. It was optional, therefore missable, after all!
I don't expect it to be something we need no matter what in order to win. But I do expect to find some relevant major secrets in there, be it about Foremost, the Astral or just something else of great importance to the Hero. And I also expected it to be time-sensitive, even more so now that we've seen these adventurers here.
 
[X] Aggressive
[X] Murderer's Panoply

[X] Absolute Focus

Ok time to go all-in. Increase our great damage by 10% to slice even a god in twain. We trade away 2 Arete but gain it back faster. All social options become combat if you decide they should be. Effectiveness + our int to handle any puzzles.

Let's get the +rank for being the man who single-handedly(literally in our case) conquered the Temple.
 
That's exactly what going all in means. Maximum power for the most high risk option. More power now can be easily leveraged to get more power later especially in a place like this. Instead of hoping that Barest cut will be enough, it's an gamble that doesn't make since in an increadibly dangerous situation like this. Potential is meaningless if you die.
 
Tally incoming:
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Jun 5, 2020 at 6:22 AM, finished with 284 posts and 46 votes.
 
We are an Cursebearer, we don't need to care about efficiency or potential as much. As long as we win and survive, we are going to grow mightier without limit.
 
Option that I dislike: Gamble
Option I like: Calculated risk

Every time :V

But I like when people do sophistry, it's really conductive in making me constantly delete inappropriate responses.

Murderer is "get what you can get and bail as soon as possible" build. It's, bar none, most short term and likely to gain least stuff build. It spends 4 Arete in least efficient manner possible to ensure our safety. In comparison, Cut accepts increased risk in first portion of dungeon hunt while taking Gisena along accepts increased risk for our allies.

Like, vote what you will, but thinking that Murderer is "all in" option gets a hard :thonk: from me.
We are an Cursebearer, we don't need to care about efficiency or potential as much. As long as we win and survive, we are going to grow mightier without limit.
Objectively wrong. Our true goal is establishing growth curve capable of setting us ahead of Apocrypha procs. Sadly, thread fucked up and didn't take Civ where we could work towards getting one of 25AP options, but that doesn't mean that our ultimate goal changed in slightest.

Merely surviving just means you land a nat 1 eventually and either die or enter a spiral of defeats.
 
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The idea that Fall of Night + Thousand cuts + undying echo is the "least efficient manner possible to ensure our safety" is laughable.

All three of those options synergize pretty damn well, it makes our blade projections far less taxing, apply Felhanded stroke to them and enormously increase there power with a chance for critical damage. The increased constitution probably also makes the attack less taxing. All the while increasing our chances to survive.

Synergistic options are far more efficient than just looking at the arete cost would imply. I would have thought you would have learned that from EFB but oh well.
 
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Murderer is "get what you can get and bail as soon as possible" build. It's, bar none, most short term and likely to gain least stuff build. It spends 4 Arete in least efficient manner possible to ensure our safety. In comparison, Cut accepts increased risk in first portion of dungeon hunt while taking Gisena along accepts increased risk for our allies.
Murderer is undeniably better than Cuts at getting picks though. It sacrifices the chance of getting another 7 arete option to instead maximize the XP it earns.
 
Murderer is "get what you can get and bail as soon as possible" build. It's, bar none, most short term and likely to gain least stuff build. It spends 4 Arete in least efficient manner possible to ensure our safety. In comparison, Cut accepts increased risk in first portion of dungeon hunt while taking Gisena along accepts increased risk for our allies.

That depends entirely on how much "stuff" requires Arete versus Experience, or is free!

Plus, you do have to live here to benefit from any of that "stuff!"

[X] Aggressive
[X] Murderer's Panoply
[X] Absolute Focus


Ok time to go all-in. Increase our great damage by 10% to slice even a god in twain. We trade away 2 Arete but gain it back faster. All social options become combat if you decide they should be. Effectiveness + our int to handle any puzzles.

Let's get the +rank for being the man who single-handedly(literally in our case) conquered the Temple.

It looks like Absolute Focus has the fewest votes, so you might want to switch to +.1 Rank instead!
 
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