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A Simple Transaction I

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Yeah, I'm not talking about the favor, I'm just saying that "free and clear" is explicitly not the arrangement made for the powers. It was so ironic a statement someone had to say something!
 
What a fantastic ending! I'll probably write a reaction to it at some point but for now let's looking at this last choice...

Ultimately I believe the Accursed knows best and this is what he has to say:
Rihaku said:
"Once you proscribed to pay me back for the powers I had imparted on you. Do me this favor, old foe: rest. Let me never again be forced to take up arms against you...

…It was a difficult enough fight the first time."
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If the Accursed believe there is a real risk that he might have to take arms against the Forebear again, should we chose Vengeance, then he is surely correct. And one does not need the Accursed infinite intellect (escalated through NaN transfinite escalation of cardinalities, etc.) to see that possibility: to chose Vengeance here is for Hunger to say that he knows better than everyone else, even the Accursed himself... And if he choses to disregard the Accursed will here, who's to say he won't do so again in the future?

How can one look at a story of a man who choses to disregard the advice of the wisest being in all of existence, his own patron who saved and empowered him, and think this story will have a happy ending? It cannot, there is no happy ending there, only endless tragedy. Which in a way would be a fitting end for this story, but it would not be a good one.

And one should not forget the price of making this attempt that will probably end up amounting to nothing
Rihaku said:
Of course, it's implied in the option's description, but it should be reinforced that the most likely outcome of Vengeance is still Hunger dead from the Apocryphal Curse. The Procession of Worlds was difficult to escape, but did not escalate quite like the Apocryphal Curse can.
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or making things worse. For
BrainInAJar said:
There are those who are forced to fight every day of their lives, and there maybe even onto eternity.
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we will be making more of these people:
Rihaku said:
He retains Blood Halo, after working to restore it; for Hunger is the Forebear no less than the reverse. As his reign and onslaught commence, Devouring War will mitigate a progressively greater portion of the Decimator's Affliction. If the Forebear's standard shall be a pennant of blood, then the future will know only war.
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Infinite multitudes will be consumed in the wars of the Forebear reborn, wars infinite and unending consuming multiverses and ontologies entire (escalated through NaN transfinite escalation of cardinalities, etc.). And if the Accursed thought it was the best choice, I would still pay that price, but he does not, so that decide things.

[X] Freedom
 
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If the Accursed didn't chime in and explicitly argue in favor of one of the options, this would genuinely be a hard choice. The possibility to actually remove a curse in full from the Accursed is very tempting, but I have also wanted to see the version of the quest Combat Class Hunger would be since basically Nifel, because everything in the Human Sphere and with Dien has been a bit much of a sprint and timeskip over all the interesting things. We clearly made the right choices for the situation Apoc put us in while there, but even as a reader it was very much giving up things I'd like in return for the power to actually impact the setting as a whole. Again, quite possibly worth it, the choice would be hard given the endgoal of continuing down the path of Vengeance, but enough to already make Freedom tempting even before the Accursed comes in and asks us to stop.

[X]Freedom
 
So how powerful was the forebear, or more specifically what was his place on the overall rank ladder?
 
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Leviathan said:
I wouldn't go that far, but his clariy is compromised by Hubris, Martyr, and Tyranny. All of which in conjunction with rest of the curses will seek to muddy the waters as much as possible as it is within their interest to.
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I remembered Martyr but not Hubris (because Hubris is mostly paywalled), so good catch. I really do prefer Freedom, and even believe it's the right choice here - but I'm less upset at all the support for Vengeance now.
WHISPER said:
So how powerful was the forebear, or more spefic what was his place on the overall rank latter?
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Above it. Inheritor grants transfinite Rank, and that's not nearly enough to make him a hard fight for the Accursed, which he apparently was.

...

Hey, @LordOfMurder, which option has the higher Gisena death chance?
 
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So the early speculation of the Forbear not being that powerful and a mid tier greatly below high cursebearers has been debunked?
 
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Box Lunch said:
Without the Apocryphal Curse to bedevil him, Hunger won't have anything to keep him away from fishing.

Indeed, as a family activity, it's likely having a son will only lead him to greater heights of fisher kingdom.
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Unfortunately, what makes the Fishing Ending distinct from the two we've been offered is that Hunger unlocks both the capacity to catch any fish and the time to do so. If he settles for freedom now then there will always be some fish outside his reach. Truly an empty victory.
 
Dark Lord Bob said:
Unfortunately, what makes the Fishing Ending distinct from the two we've been offered is that Hunger unlocks both the capacity to catch any fish and the time to do so. If he settles for freedom now then there will always be some fish outside his reach. Truly an empty victory.
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The Forebear became a High Cursebearer tier being without Progression, Hunger has access to the Praxis, various remittances, etc. It is not beyond him to do so again.
 
[X] Freedom

On second thought, a lot of the more recent argumentation has swayed me to Freedom's side. I still understand - although firmly disagree with - the stance of Vengeance, however, and so on account of that - as well as the account of honoring the intentionality of what I am voting for - I'll refrain from unleashing an omake storm.
 
LordOfMurder said:
Why would we get loyalty marks for a decision Gisena didn't like?
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Well, for one thing, if we pick Freedom she probably outgrows us. She's got a partial copy of Progression, and we wouldn't anymore.* That's hard to square with Tyrant.
I can see the Gisena-happiness argument for Vengeance. It provides her both challenges and meaningful work, and it doubtless flatters her ego to be chosen over both the Maiden and the Hero's own family. But she has been sad every time the tragedies of his life come up, including what he's been willing to sacrifice for victory, and you'll note that she doesn't become less loyal if we pick Freedom.

*We could get our own knockoff copy, but it won't scale high enough by itself, so it's probably better to not increase our Decimator range.
 
I'd like to point out that Indenture, Tyranny, and Decimation are severe complications to any ending involving Catherine and Hunger's child by her. For the first, we have two companion slots - if only because we unwisely decided against task leeway. Is Hunger supposed to allocate both to them, leaving behind Gisena and Adorie? The utility of the first is self-evident. And all emotional considerations aside, Adorie's both the source of his Praxis stamina and her imprisonment enables using the Realm of Evening for Archmage.

Tyranny is near-totally incompatible with what we know of Ceathlynn's personality, to say nothing of the implications for raising a child... which'll have to be done on Indenture or not at all. These arguments are prosaic compared to high-minded considerations like increasing the probability of the Victorious World, but it behooves people to consider how this happily ever after will actually play out. Hunger is ridiculous, yes, but without Progression can he actually keep his wife and child alive while navigating the gauntlet of Indenture?
 
The other involves Catherine's immediate execution, so it's not really a question there. Complaints about its efficiency certainly diminish the appeal, but not to the degree of total refusal.
 
The logistics of Freedom do not change the fact that Vengeance is a suicide path, as stated by Rihaku on Discord. Everyone voting for Vengeance is effectively flipping the same coin a thousand times, with the knowledge that getting heads even once means death, on the off-chance they don't get it even one time.

If someone can ameliorate its suicidal aspect or conclusively prove we won't meet a grisly end, I might still be willing to swap to Vengeance.
 
I'm not sure why the assumption is that Hunger and Catherine get together again. He barely remembers her.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
Well, for one thing, if we pick Freedom she probably outgrows us. She's got a partial copy of Progression, and we wouldn't anymore.* That's hard to square with Tyrant.
I can see the Gisena-happiness argument for Vengeance. It provides her both challenges and meaningful work, and it doubtless flatters her ego to be chosen over both the Maiden and the Hero's own family. But she has been sad every time the tragedies of his life come up, including what he's been willing to sacrifice for victory, and you'll note that she doesn't become less loyal if we pick Freedom.

*We could get our own knockoff copy, but it won't scale high enough by itself, so it's probably better to not increase our Decimator range.
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Why would Gisena be happy to outgrow us? She likes teasing Hunger but it's not like she's jealous of him, she's our most steadfast companion.

Gisena likes Hunger as he is, she wants him to do well but the Hunger that chose Vengeance originally is the Hunger she's been helping all this time. Always steadfast, never compromising, forever cutting through.

At this final hour after Gisena has finally proven the depth of her Genius and overcome her progenitor the maiden who cursed her with nullity and banned her from all other magic, are you really going to tell me she'll be happy with Hunger taking up even a portion of the Maiden's values?
 
LordOfMurder said:
At this final hour after Gisena has finally proven the depth of her Genius and overcome her progenitor the maiden who cursed her with nullity and banned her from all other magic, are you really going to tell me she'll be happy with Hunger taking up even a portion of the Maiden's values?
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I mean, if we use Favor as a metric to derive her acceptance then she doesn't seem to mind and the maidens requests are reasonable.
 
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