The hour of destiny is shit, because you can only do it three times. You got blessing and favors and more? Cool, watch Apocryphal-chan take those away over the next five procs, then die miserable and alone.
We actually had a mitigation option that did basically the same thing, but it had a chance to apply to a proc. That one was actually good, since you could both remove a proc and benefit from it instead, without screwing yourself long term and without the usage limit.
The hour of destiny is shit, because you can only do it three times. You got blessing and favors and more? Cool, watch Apocryphal-chan take those away over the next five procs, then die miserable and alone.
We actually had a mitigation option that did basically the same thing, but it had a chance to apply to a proc. That one was actually good, since you could both remove a proc and benefit from it instead, without screwing yourself long term and without the usage limit.
Man, look at all that not standing still you're doing in the mean time. Sure is good being a Progression-type with a superhuman work ethic, huh?
The fact is, most advancements are deprecated over time anyway. The compounding benefits of a couple +s back in the Temple were huge, now we don't notice them. +1 Rank gives way to +1 ISH, gives way to some other bigger scale entirely. That's just how Progression works.
So no, I don't expect anything we get here will matter in six-to-eight Apocryphal advents. Because by then, it will be scaling to our new power-ups. Some of which will be based in mitigating the Apocryphal Curse, possibly even by improving our signature moves!
Man, look at all that not standing still you're doing in the mean time. Sure is good being a Progression-type with a superhuman work ethic, huh?
The fact is, most advancements are deprecated over time anyway. The compounding benefits of a couple +s back in the Temple were huge, now we don't notice them. +1 Rank gives way to +1 ISH, gives way to some other bigger scale entirely. That's just how Progression works.
So no, I don't expect anything we get here will matter in six-to-eight Apocryphal advents. Because by then, it will be scaling to our new power-ups. Some of which will be based in mitigating the Apocryphal Curse, possibly even by improving our signature moves!
You do understand that you're just giving more reasons not to chose Supreme Merger? The benefits it gives are temporary while the harm it causes is anything but.
You do understand that you're just giving more reasons not to chose Supreme Merger? The benefits it gives are temporary while the harm it causes is anything but.
That's why Dayllian died immediately despite two time-loop resurrections, and why more than 1/3 of the Three Wishes Remittance's power is tied up in a True Wish that's locked to only be used defensively.
You do understand that you're just giving more reasons not to chose Supreme Merger? The benefits it gives are temporary while the harm it causes is anything but.
The benefit it offers is, that for something we cannot survive without it, we manage to live AND the Apocryphal gives us a substantial powerup. That's not a temporary benefit!
Plus, Hunger is very unlikely to achieve full mitigation (Haeliel doesn't consider it worth the energy for her to mitigate her own Apocryphal that far) so you don't really lose out. Will Hunger even survive to be a High Cursebearer and even consider taking these outrageously high Mitigation steps? Maybe not without taking HoD in the first place. Even Seram isn't even a mid Cursebearer, from the Apoc option we had the chance to pick.
The Accursed is exerting himself to even give Hunger this option, and he has a vested interest in Hunger's survival. I don't think he'd pick anything that wouldn't be in our best interests.
The core problem with Hour of Destiny is that, if you need it you have already shown the apocryphal curse, at its current mitigation, can kill you. But, because Hunger has already reached a relatively high mitigation stage, you cannot expect to reach the next tier of mitigation before the Apocryphal Curse gets another go at you.
That is, when you use the hour of destiny you have probably delayed your execution by a time that is too short to really change anything.
Let's take now as an example. Hunger uses Hour of Destiny, he defeats the Maiden. He gets a bunch of cool powers and then... And then nothing substantive changes, because the curse scales with him and he hasn't mitigated it any further. So, the next time it builds up like this you have to expend Hour of Destiny again, and then you've only got one chance left.
Will you grow fast enough to get stage three? Will stage three be enough? Do you need four? Five?
If you're using Hour of Destiny instead of improving your build some other way then you've probably already lost.
Edit: again, this wouldn't be that big of a deal if you could gained regain a use every ten procs or something. But because you only get three that might not even last hunger to the next mitigation stage.
The core problem with Hour of Destiny is that, if you need it you have already shown the apocryphal curse, at its current mitigation, can kill you. But, because Hunger has already reached a relatively high mitigation stage, you cannot expect to reach the next tier of mitigation before the Apocryphal Curse gets another go at you.
procs like the Maiden are not representative of the usual Apoc proc though, she's Apoc saving up a lot of power over a timeskip. Plus, she's much stronger than she would be as a "default" Apocryphal proc, because we specifically took two options to massively buff her OOC to have a stronger final boss. You shouldn't assume that every proc will be on the level of the Maiden.
Even if they will be, it's better to have a contingency than to not have it.
procs like the Maiden are not representative of the usual Apoc proc though, she's Apoc saving up a lot of power over a timeskip. Plus, she's much stronger than she would be as a "default" Apocryphal proc, because we specifically took two options to massively buff her OOC to have a stronger final boss. You shouldn't assume that every proc will be on the level of the Maiden.
Even if they will be, it's better to have a contingency than to not have it.
There's no point going so heavily into what-ifs and hypotheticals when we have a powerful enemy beating down our door right now. I'm sure post Epilogue Hunger will have more benefits from Haeliel, and his own ways to mitigate Apocryphal that will make stuff less risky for him (or he'll get other panic buttons like Final Form that could save him). We don't need to count our chickens before they hatch with a fight this risky.
I'm not voting for HoD rn, but I have a strong anti-preference for Vendetta, and we are 22 full arete short of being able to afford it from the last count. At the thread's current lack of activity, I don't want to assume we will even have that arete when the contest closes. Some variant of High Merger sounds like the safest bet for now. I'm fine with forgoing HoD but there's no need to look down on short term value of the option .
A note for those participating in the Contest: Mage Lord includes Linear Halo, which forbids acquiring new magic systems without first purchasing Outward Halo (which we know little about, but which we do know costs 7 arete, and which we can guess also probably costs at least one pick). @Kirbstomp's Mage Lord build, for example, acquires Inksky, a Surgecraft, without first purchasing Outward Halo, and thus is not valid (I think?).
I don't think R ever wrote Outward Halo so I guess by the rules of the challenge you can just come up with what it does so long as you keep its extra abilities in theme with being capable of learning other magic systems perhaps Outward Halo makes the initiation of new magic systems cheaper thus giving a discount to learning Surgecraft
From A Far Bastion onwards...
A Far Bastion
-[A]The Barest Cut (Saves 2 Arete immediate, and Form Of Rage never came up. Con is lowered slightly, but I infer a 7-Arete combat advantage makes up the overall difference)
-[l] Investigate the Main Entrance is forced due to risks of ?%, ?% and ?% for ???, Battle??? and death on the other option; unless Something Else (investigate one of the other side entrances) is a valid selection, in which case it presumably saves half a day. It's not clear if the 0.5 Arete is from the Choice, or the Delay; if the Choice, I would expect Side Entrances to be similar by choice-nature, if the Delay, that's a 0.5 Arete : 1 Day trade.
The Solitary Moon
choices are presumed identical including in the Side Entrance case,
-[t] Aggressive
-[e] +0.1 Rank
War And Wind
With the higher Agility of the build so far, Hunger is as swift without Second Stage as he would otherwise be within. Although his Constitution is lower by 2, he's also hitting seven times as hard and fast with Fell-handed stroke and he's less likely to be hit. From the description of the fight in this update, I think the 7x speed multiplier (and bonus agility) would enable Hunger to sever the Knights hand before it could dash him into the ground the first, nonlethal time, as he attempted to do so a moment too late; and he would be equally able to avoid its craven ambush, and flee its fellows.
Although Aggressive was selected, the leadup to this fight doesn't actually give any room for Hunger to have done anything riskier- alternate paths need not be explored yet.
Arete gain has been increased by 10%. in the original path, 11 Arete-paying-nine goes to 4.25, ergo 2.25 Arete originally; the Arete modifier of Aggressive increases this builds Arete Surplus from 2(for picking Barest Cut) to 2.225. Aggressive also increased the odds of Rank Gain 'Vastly'.
Although pick off stragglers is obvious, and worked originally, I've selected 'Aggressive'. in keeping with that...
-[r] Vanquish The Pursuers is somewhat forced.
-[n] Brute Force
The Winnowing Garden
Wurmless
Since Vanquish The Pursuers is chosen, this encounter with the Tiller Wurm does not occur. I also judge that Hunger would not have been forced into Second Stage yet, and so have that insurance in reserve- the Tiller Wurm being a 3-Pick Fight, Hunger being somewhat more capable (besides lacking Form Of Rage, which has never triggered in the original quest), and Vanquish being a 2-Pick selection, this option seems actually safer than the original despite its nature.
(I should note that I largely haven't been reading ahead before making choices, though I've obviously read the quest before, so assumed the Wurm was later. though this turns in my plans favor in a sense.)
Arete Gain in this time is 0.1, hence surplus increases by 0.01 to 2.235 per Aggressive. With only 2 Picks, Feat: Apex is the best option available; and due to Aggressive, the amount of Rank it gives should be 'Vastly' increased, which I shall assume to be the smallest possible increase of 0.1.
-[a] Feat: Apex.
-[t] Keep Up Momentum is an Aggressive option, and so forced. +0.55 Arete surplus.
(Checking the next update, it looks like the ordinary version chooses no in Wurm, costing it 2 Arete. Arete surplus increases to 4.785 by avoiding that plus picking Keep Up Momentum.
Since Keep Up Momentum only increases the odds of enemies which can be handled and Hunger is not as injured as he would be after a Tiller Wurm battle, any risk should be quite minimal.)
Cutting Through.
Arete Gain in this time is 4.4, it appears, since the value listed increases by 2.4 and No is selected. As such, Aggressive's bonus adds 0.44 to the Surplus. 5.225 Arete surplus over canonical values.
In this version, where no Wurm battle has occurred and Hunger may have fought more opponents, the choices presented are somewhat dubious, but I'll assume for simplicity that Hunger still went into Wraith mode, and after another Pick of fighting(picking an Echo for simplicity) he waited for himself to recover, then chose to...
[e] Sweep The Outskirts is at least more aggressive than searching for humans. It's an unusually cautious choice given Aggressive but I think within the pale.
[R] Don't bring Gisena (+0.11 Arete Surplus.)
no attached build vote. Arete surplus is now 5.335.
Promenade Of Glories I
Since Canonical Hunger chooses Apex as well, this version is only 1 Echo behind in a way probably outweighed by slightly increased Rank Gain. Gisena is not present, so best to chose an encounter she wouldn't help with. I remember normally Magus is selected; with Sweep The Outskirts replacing Human Interaction, Pick levels can be maintained while picking the less risky Knights Legion, albeit with a cost in Arete Surplus.
[e] Knight Legion.
[a] Seize the day, as Veterancy was not used- this being checked as a matter of not-picking-things-I'd-need-to-roll-for, as if that inconvenience were removed I'd simply have picked Seize regardless.
(Arete Surplus reduces by 1.45 to 3.885)
The Ritual Grounds
With both Sweep The Outskirts and Seize The Day, there are 4 Picks available in this point where otherwise 3 were available.
also, Arete Generation since the last point was 3.75; due to Aggressive, +0.375 Arete Surplus, to 4.26. First, to check if Ruinous is forced... nope. But not picking Bloodmight would raise ambiguities as well... eh, heck it. I've already picked Thousand Cuts early, might as well go synergistic.
Since pick numbers differ between this and the original, I constructed a combination based on the options listed in the combinations otherwise available.
[l] Domain: Life. [i] Ruinous Valor (Zweihander)
this makes full use of the Picks available here, picks only options which will Eventually be picked, and saves 7 Arete(though that Arete will be used at later date to pick up Chief Dominion when another pick is available, unless Ruling Ring comes in first.). Ruin probably does alright to replace the lack of Bleeding Acceleration, and Hunger will have some healing, if less, from Life.
A.surplus: 4.26 (+7 for future Chief Dominion)
Coin And Realm
in this version, Hunger didn't seek humans, so he doesn't learn about the Middle area. Without Chief Dominion - Blood, and also with Gisena being... not unconscious because she was left behind... Tend to Gisena is not an option; Hunt Into Evening is forced, unless chatting with Letrizia I suppose. For simplicity, I'll assume Rank allows Hunger to walk headlong into increased danger.
Arete production here is 3.27, increasing Surplus by 0.327.
[t] Hunt Into Evening. the Pick here goes to an Echo; as described, Chief Dominion probably would not have been an option.
[y]+1 Pick at next Experience Spending Point
A.surplus: 4.587 (+7 for future Chief Dominion)
Red of Sky and Fang
Gisena is less capable than in canon, having not been given the benefit of Chief Dominion - Blood. Perhaps there'll be a chance to grab it soon... regardless, I think combat strengths are fairly similar, so picking the same fight as canon should be non-roll-worthy;
[+] Resident Outriders.
[+] Inward Focus is forced as Blood is not available.
Fending Off
(estimated Arete gain here: 1.63, surplus rises by 0.163 to 4.8)
[+] Lingering Paralysis. Guilt would be safe for now, due to I am the danger's 10% boost, but IATD is depleted if Hunger retreats, which the standard path says he will. I'm guessing Lingering Paralysis runs out before the temple does, but I don't actually know that. If it does, Guilt would be better, perhaps, but so be it.
[+] Chief Dominion, as this pick point would likely allow for it.
[+] Quickening is somewhat forced; its stat buffs are large enough that generalities regarding combat power without it would be dubious. (If more inclined to speculate, I'd pick Evening Gown for the 30% attack speed meme)
The canonical path here also takes Quickening, and then follows it up with Thousand Cuts which is already possessed; discounted by 2 Arete due to the nature of this build vote, that's 5 Arete Canon spends that this path doesn't. +5 Arete surplus.
A.surplus: 9.8
Meditations on the Sword
[+] Study The Blood (human sphere knowledge is irrelevant!). This probably provides a slight increase to Hungers combat power.
...I can't figure out what the cost, requirements, or nature or Ruling Ring are if not purchased piecemeal- I can't find the advancement anywhere. ah well.
Arete generation here is from est.10.9 to 12.5; +0.16 Arete Surplus, to 9.96.
Throne and Alter
[+] Breach The Middle is somewhat forced to remain on the same plot-track. Plus, it's the Aggressive option.
[+] Vigor Itself.
There's a slight risk here- Hunger Alter is no longer broadly combat-superior to canon-Hunger as Canon-Hunger now has the Thousand Cuts benefit that defined Hunger Alter. of course, Hunger Alter also has a dramatically larger pool of Arete for various reasons, but that's not combat power. The competition is ambiguous, since Hunger alter still has at least 0.1 Rank Advantage from slightly-boosted Apex.
2.4 Arete produced in this time, increases surplus by 0.24. Vigor Itself is 2 Arete cheaper than Fall Of Night, increasing Surplus by 2.
A.surplus: 12.2
Once and Future
[+] Grand Nullification. I don't know if it's even active at this point but it's still The Apocryphal Curse. If a vote on specifics were added, I'd go for making the Curse prioritise interesting times which don't permakill or substantially weaken Hunger, over ones that do-if such variation were even allowed. Incidentally, oughtn't Direct Mitigation be a 12.5% reduction/stage, not 10%?
[+] Opportunistic Raiding is forced, to avoid being riskier.
1.1 Arete generated in this span; +0.11 Surplus
A.surplus: 12.31
Honor Unstained
[+] R-Type #1 as that is what was chosen originally.
[+] Preparations Dialogue And Focus- Focus is slightly less potent than Resolve, but Resolve puts some power into Form of Rage, which Hunger Alter lacks. Additionally, the I Am The Danger buff maintained through Aggressive should cancel out the slight difference. I wouldn't judge this as more risky on the whole than the original option, in context.
Sky Above Sky
[-] in this modified course of action, No Condition vote is available. Trauma, which is less severe than these, was reawakened.
[+] Uttermost here expends Form Of Rage, but is effectively required to maintain the standard path of advancement availability. I'll assume a version of Uttermost costing 5 Arete instead of said expenditure, as piecemeal advancement is generally more expensive.
A. Surplus: 7.31.
Arisen Again
[+] Vacation to maintain the canon path.
[+]Augment Dominion: Blood seems slightly superior at this juncture.
4.3 Arete was gained since the last time it was explicitly listed; +0.43 Surplus. This ends the period of 'Aggressive'; Hunger leaves the Temple at this point, and also almost died.
A. Surplus: 7.74.
Incidentally, due to taking Inner Focus instead of Level Gisena earlier(a forced choice, but probably an efficient one as Hungers enhancement capability waxes by the selection), Hunger Alter is functioning at +0.35 Rank relative to Canon Hunger for the next bit, instead of just +0.1(from enhanced Rank Gain involving Apex... honestly Aggressive would probably have given at least one other +Rank option? But I'm not going to speculate.)
Thunder of Blood
[+]To Rank 4.5 (Though being at >+0.45 Rank for the healing suggests Hunger could probably manage a bit more without paying Arete? To whatever the highest no-Arete level of power is.)
[+] A Besieged Colony, per canon.
[+] 1 arete as is canonical. 1 Pick isn't worth the uncertainty as to whether this path has sufficient Arete surplus for Slice Fate.
Impunity
[+] Investigate the Schools, per canon.
[+] Slice Fate. That's what the careful Arete Surplus penny-pinching(and Aggressive path, etc) was for, after all!
All Along the Watchtower
[+]Studying the Blade
[+] Relaxing at hot springs
[+] Surgecraft
[?] I assume Cut Through was chosen in this vote?
Accursed Implement
Normally, Ruinous Valor is chosen here, but it's already possessed. Actually, I suppose that means Hunger Alter has been broadly superior to Canon Hunger in combat after all even still- though in the Vanreir fight specifically, not in a relevant way. It probably reduces the intensity of the complication here.
[+]+1 Pick below
[+] Prime (+0.3 Astral Rank)
[+] Vigor Itself, Fierce Quickening.
[+] Check on gisena to stick to canon.
Vertiginous Heights
[+] The Kaguya (sticks to Canon. plus currency is dust.)
[+] 7 Arete version - Edeldross (sticks to Canon, avoids Attribute disparities while following the canonical route)
High Glades
[+] Stay and Train, per Canon.
[+] presumably Letrizia gets Devouring Sorceress (first coalescence) or something and they still suck up just as much magic because she Devours it to ascend
Scarlet Legion
[+] Augment Dominion - Blood. Rank increasesss
[+] Magnitude; Hunger gains Sufficient control for basic success anyway, and the Edeldross is for Stats. Experimentation would be the choice, save that Gisena was chosen to prioritize mitigation and therefore has lower stats and therefore success rate would be lower- unless Hunger develops the grace entirely alone if he does that?
Subtle and Quick
[+] Focus on Gisena- the discount is wasted, but +Mental Stability is important and this version of Hunger did reawaken Trauma a bit.
[+] Shadowcord like Canon, why not. the other options aren't particularly Better and money is dust.
[+] Infiltration, like canon.
Fleeting Respite
[+] +1 Pick
[+] Edeldross Adept per Canon, as Shadowlord leaves the Arete 'surplus' in the negatives (plus Hunger Alter can't pick Vigor Incarnate, the alternative in this price range, as he's a Vigor Itself short of Canon). Hunger presumably has higher Magnitude than listed here, though less (irrelevant) control.
Promenade of Glories II
[+] High Marshall Avecarn simply for being Canon. Though if aiming to optimise for Alter Hunger being better suited to the encounter than Canon Hunger (as I can't optimise for Alter Hunger's actual suitability when I don't even know what Rank Alter Hunger is except relatively) I'd select Gondar Hrsillimas, since Alter Hunger has higher out-of-temple Rank, Blood Rank, and Rank in general.
[+] None (no need to make commitments in a single-person plan!)
(At this point, I believe Slice Fate has accumulated 3 Rerolls.)
Force of Nature
[+] Unacceptable
(I'm reasonably sure from memory that Aeira doesn't actually contribute all that much- +0.8 Arete and +1 Pick will be superior.)
[-] no selection here as the next update contains a replacement choice.
A Wind Full of Knives
(Since this build vote does not, actually, allow for 2 Picks to be used without fiat-providing 26 more Arete, the extra Pick from Unacceptable is to the next spend point.)
[+] Crimson Flare- it's Canon, which makes it safe. But also, it'll have an interesting interaction with Augment Dominion - Blood, which as far as I can tell never actually got picked in Canon, but which it refunds- which means instant access to 3 Picks, or 6 if i pick up another copy before the Azure is saved.
It Augments Rank to 5, but I infer that the 'variable amount' is accounting for variation in Rank(so as to avoid being an option which either sometimes reduces Rank or an option which becomes excessively potent at higher Rank, since unlike most Rank advancements it could be bought at any point), and Hunger Alter has 0.4 more Rank overall than Canon Hunger. If I am understanding the advancement correctly, Hunger Alter gets Rank augmented to ~5.33, probably.
I'd also assume Verschlengorge gets somewhat faster Rank-restoration due to the +0.33 Rank Hunger Alter has over canon Hunger(though apparently the Augment Dominions don't stack with the +2)- With such speed of healing, by the time Hunger returns to the temple, Verschlengorge may be in good-enough condition to contribute to the fight... If not for how, Canonically, Hunger will jump off Verschlengorge and make for the temple without a moments delay.
Ah well, needs must.
Star-Forges of Plerion
[+] Guile-Defeating Stance, per Canon.
To Battle's Close
3 Picks, due to refusing Aeira- 4, with Cut, but no.
[+] Feat: Shameless. +0.325 Rank is straight up better than +0.25 Blood Rank which doesn't stack, and cheaper as well.
[+] Vigor Itself, as Hunger cannot pick Vigor Incarnate without it for parity with Canon.
[+] Foment Rebellion, per Canon.
Although Hungers Charisma will be 2 Lower than in Canon for Foment, he also has +0.658 Rank. That's probably worth more than 2 Charisma, so I'm going to assume The Provinces, Roused worked just as well (especially as the picks there are from picking off foes while doing the things, and this Hunger is just generally Better at combat.)
The Provinces, Roused
[+] The Silver Horde - On first reading, it sounds as though the Fairbright option gives Hunger the Fairbright bloodline but on a second read it sounds more like having a fairbright ally is a buff. That's nice and all, but I'd rather take an extra pick and Arete.
[+] Vigor Incarnate.
[+] Fierce Quickening, due to a spare Pick which... seems to be missing in Canon?
[+] Weapon-Defeating Stance, due to Canonicity.
Day of Independence
[+] Scorched Earth. It's the Canonical Path. Incidentally, based on when Gisena was set to finish her meditations and how long Foment Rebellion was projected to take, there should be at least 4 Slice Fate Rerolls now. Apparently, Aeira contributes here- but broadly I wouldn't call this a risk, particularly with the range of Gisenas Sea and Hunger having broad dominance.
A Farewell to Arms
[+] Evangeline Worldkeeper for canonicity.
The Ultimate Price
Hero-defeating stance is somewhat beneficial but not enough to be worth 7 Arete, as I'd judge it. Rather...
[+] Fierce Quickening
[+] Knife. As canonical.
[+] Dominion: War.
[+] Treachery.
Arete Surplus goes to 6.54.
Forefront
[+] Oops, the soup. forced because she lacks Sharpbright and is the Devouring Sorceress
Arete Surplus goes to 7.54.
[ ] Ruler and Vassal like the standard- Subordination is tempting but not actually necessary for anything in particular. Though, the cost of it is minor- Gisena possesses the +Stats to probably be fine and then she's going to kill the Ring anyway.... I've convinced myself
[+] Subordination. We're going to kill it anyway (by accident), might as well have a more consistent attitude.
I think this is still less risky than Canon due to +0.658 Rank relative to Canon, but even if it isn't natively, Slice Fate has granted Rerolls.
In Wake of Silence
[+] Canonical His People Need Him.
[+] Star of Grace but 10 Arete.
The World Your Oyster
(6 Picks due to the Refunds of Augment Dominion x2.)
(since no 6-Pick options are available and I'm still never inclined to speculate...)
[+] Honing
[+] Feat: Mightier.
[+] Opalescence
Arete Surplus goes to 10.54; Rank Advantage goes to 1.04800, perhaps slightly lower if Mightiest is weaker due to higher Rank.
Mental Contamination sucks and the Pentinent will get outscaled. It increases rank somewhat, but this build has higher Rank right now and Rank will eventually be set to 10 by force.
[+] Mass Ennoblement.
The Lord of the Rings
[+] Gisena Allria, the High Sorceress of Nullity per canon.
[+] Studying the Blade Praxis
Threefold Meditations
And here the build stops, as recommended! Due to the degree of Arete canonically generated during before this vote concludes (12.5), existing Arete at 6.9, and the Arete Surplus of 10.54 (from some carryover from Aggressive, spilling soup, dropping Inherit for Honing and Mightier and dropping that one mid-Stenallon fight Stance in exchange for either nothing or, like, one Reroll but I'm inclined to guess nothing because Hunger Alter has a Rank Advantage relative to canon Hunger even after the Stance's external +0.2.), Hunger Alter could feasibly go Full Seven Praxis Picks and take on another Curse. Maybe the Curse of Hubris, it'd match that kind of decision. Or, Hunger Alter could take the curses-aside more efficient route of generating 4 Picks- I believe the 'standard' value of Praxis Picks in the future was at 7 Arete to 2? I might be misremembering. He could definitely afford everything he gets in canon, unless something I've forgotten is based on Inherit the World(a cursory search says nothing was), while having Slice Fate and slightly higher Rank and some Arete to spare.
Inevitable Wurm(incomplete; unlikely to be explicated0
Or, if the Tiller Wurm encounter was inevitable, and this selection simply left Hunger fighting the Wurm in about the same situation(second stage, similarish stats) he'd fought it in in the original quest- but with 1 more Pick available if he chooses the risky option-
-[a] Yes, Obviously; Feat: Apex.
I assumed Ruinous was forced due to the existence of Stances later on, but decided to check; it's not picked yet here, so choice is free. It's the best use of 3 Picks, though, without bringing in fictitious advancements or expending Arete; despite my liking of Gardeners, straying too far will make things more dubious, and Arete must be saved for Cut Fate in any case.
-[t] Ruinous Valor
This version of the alternate path is not decided right now and honestly I don't think I'll write it out in full because boy is this taking a while, but I think it broadly goes the same as above, but with slightly more Picks/more freedom at like one future spend point total.
The Most Unsynergistic Advancement Possible(citation needed)
The following Advancement is antisynergistic with:
Hungers Personality*
Rank**
+Stats**
Picks**
Magic systems**
ISH elevation**
the Praxis**
Being Alive***
Anything else which makes Hunger stronger in any way, except Arete.****
Mental Contamination from every source to offer it.**
Mental Stability.**
Relationship +'s.**
Companions.** 25? Arete Descended
Version 1
Gain access to an ISH elevation 5.5 set of 3 actions per update, which can be put to any purpose or held in reserve; their effectiveness is proportional to the importance of the task(scaled such that it is always theoretically possible for Hunger to succeed through actions, but only rarely probable.), not its in-character difficulty, and is increased if Hunger would make a good writer while writing them before considering any +Stat augmentations, Rank, or such factors.
This ability scales only with its own byzantine rules(through nigh-incoherent means, unused actions can be gambled on the possibility of permanent increases in action number) and Arete, which can be spent to improve Actions, or in large quantities on the ability itself. Everything else is completely ignored.
As long as there is sufficient thread attention, this ability also allows Hunger to resurrect himself after death (regardless of any sub-ISH 5.5 effects) for two actions, or continue affecting the world through Actions despite being dead.
Version 2 - This version is wordier, but maybe clearer? estimated cost: 25 Arete. Descended
Gain access to the ability to Act, at an ISH elevation of 5.5, not to be confused with composite ISH value- the ability operates on the high ends of Post-Meta influence, but its usefulness is relatively slim.
The ability to Act allows you to cause nearly any outcome you could possibly conceive of, warping reality, redefining its fundamental substrate, slaying your foes, reviving your bros, regrowing your limbs, ungrowing your enemies limbs- the possibilities are as vast as the space of unaugmented human comprehension. Thrice per major decision- Update, build-vote consolidations excepted- Hunger may do this, or hold the power in reserve. The more witty, humorous, interesting, or cool an action is- or broadly, the greater its artistic merit as a piece of writing- the more powerful it is. However, Actions process power on a scale practically orthogonal to physical power. With Actions, it is precisely as easy to create a new star from nothing as it is to shine a flashlight in your opponents eyes, supposing the aim is the same; and even if the star is far brighter than the flashlight no matter its distance, the effect on the opponents vision will be unchanged. So too would a robot suffer the selfsame impairment as a human as a cave-dwelling dark beast with no eyes to speak of. For similar reasons, when using Actions to perform a sword-swing, it is irrelevant how strong your arm or how resilient your foe, how great your mystic arts or indeed whether you are even aware, on the ISH <4 level, of the existence of your target. They will take an amount of injury appropriate to the importance to you personally of their defeat and the 'power' of the action- which will not impair them in any way unless it is sufficient to slay them outright. The way all of this scales is such that Hunger will always be theoretically capable of victory on the ISH 5.5 perspective, but that 'theoretically' could require extremes well into the realm of dozens of Arete.
This ability cannot be upgraded in any way with Picks unless your general ISH elevation becomes sufficient to overpower the ability. It cannot be elevated beyond 5.5 except through Arete, as the pseudo-sapient ability restricts its aid.
The ability also has a second facet, perhaps more useful- granting axiomatic and utterly immutable (elevation permitting) survival. Hunger's self will not die, as long as this ability is not overpowered- rather, his body will die as normal, but he will be able to resurrect himself using two 'actions' so long as sufficient thread attention (measured through Arete production, perhaps) exists. Or, he may choose not to resurrect himself- being dead does not, whatsoever, impair the ability of Actions to influence the world.
*he is unsuited to joking and the sort of thing which this Advancement considers artistic merit, assuming his writing style is more 'clinical description' than 'Rihaku again' as I infer.
**it doesn't scale with them at all and using it when they are sufficient is wasteful.
***Since it's just as usable while dead and its only not-importance-scaled prospect is revival, being alive deprives you of its most reliable utility and opens you up to more avenues of Apocryphal Interference than being Dead.
****similar reasons to above; Arete is a singled out exception as the (on the ISH 5ish level)crystallisation of artistic value and reactions to such, which it does scale with, and also the ability has to come from Somewhere and the only other option left is... a money-Wish or something.
*he is unsuited to joking and the sort of thing which this Advancement considers artistic merit, assuming his writing style is more 'clinical description' than 'Rihaku again' as I infer.
Hunger is a very good writer, actually. He could keep up with Gisena's banter with very few INT or WITS +s. Though I'm not sure why you'd think such an advancement would be justifiable from Accretion or cost only 25 Arete!
The Hour of Destiny is actually insanely good. It's not just 'win this event' it's 'reverse this event.' Like turning it into a wish, it's effectively converting that mitigation back into raw power. +Progression might actually be weaker at the scale Hunger's at, because it's the unrestricted mind of the Apocryphal Curse that's adjudicating how it turns out.
It doesn't reset mitigation as a cost - that's its point. Embrace the escalation! By accepting the fate of a warrior, the shackles of a Tyrant cowering within his redoubt are thrown off. Destiny ceases to be a prison, instead becoming the palace of a hero-king. Adversity is a tool, the whetstone upon which one's forebear's blades were sharpened. To shy away is to choose weakness; cowardice, hypocrisy, entitlement.
To back away would be an act of surrender before the fear of Interesting Times. And Hunger does not surrender.
It's only good for an hour and only 3 times. That's nice but I'd rather something that's always good and doesn't come with a downside. Like Perfect Merger!
I dunno, I'm just not feeling the idea that Arcanist Gisena will remain relevant for much more than three visits from Apo-chan anyway.
The real conflict is where it concerns the mitigation rollback. Which after much deliberation I don't mind. In this exact moment, it's very intuitively inconvenient. But in the long-term, where the Hour is most notable and valuable, it's critical as vehicle for exploiting the Curse as a source of enhanced Progression.
Some people carry a weapon for security. Some people carry a weapon because they will never be secure. I don't think that's a philosophical difference that can be bridged over the internet, not by myself at least. But I don't see the latter as an inferior perspective, not when certainty is as elusive a property as it is here with Interesting Times breathing down our necks.
The Hour is not a second Shattering Blow. It's a second Pillars of Creation.
Perfect Merger is a modestly deceptive choice, because it just switches Hunger and Gisena's relative positions in the field. It promises another Hunger-level combatant, but Hunger is weakening and he'll continue to weaken unless we specifically pick CtF, because of our lack of Praxis Stamina.
The moment RoW runs out, our combat power falls so we'll take Gisena's current position in the conflict and she takes our current position. That doesn't feel very winning to me. It's better to extend Hunger's stamina AND get a substantial power boost by using High Merger without HoD even if you dislike HoD. It comes with the bonus of being much less vulnerable to mindjack via Mental Apex because Hunger has immense willpower, too. I don't want to diss on GIsena, but Sorc buffs don't improve WIll rank which was the most relevant stat for resisting Mental Apex, so she's just more vulnerable than us to this Grace (which we explicitly voted for Maiden to have and also have full mastery of).
It's only good for an hour and only 3 times. That's nice but I'd rather something that's always good and doesn't come with a downside. Like Perfect Merger!
yeah, are we really willing to let Gisena permanently eat Adorie? Is Adorie willing (I don't think she is because of the - Loyalty) ? Can this cheat the Geas and let us take both to another world?
That's the only way the merger's benefits are permanent. I don't want to unethically bind Adorie and Augustine against their will. The only explicitly permanent merger is Ending True, which would be the option to take if you want permanent benefits. It's cheap and we can afford it now (unlike Perfect which is looking to kill us from Arete debt), but is also as powerful as Perfect, and is a permanent thing.
-16 Augustine isn't since she's currently dead and we were the ones who killed her, -3 Adorie is a slight downside I'll concede. We can always be nice to Adorie later though.
I dunno, I'm just not feeling the idea that Arcanist Gisena will remain relevant for much more than three visits from Apo-chan anyway.
The real conflict is where it concerns the mitigation rollback. Which after much deliberation I don't mind. In this exact moment, it's very intuitively inconvenient. But in the long-term, where the Hour is most notable and valuable, it's critical as vehicle for exploiting the Curse as a source of enhanced Progression.
Some people carry a weapon for security. Some people carry a weapon because they will never be secure. I don't think that's a philosophical difference that can be bridged over the internet, not by myself at least. But I don't see the latter as an inferior perspective, not when certainty is as elusive a property as it is here with Interesting Times breathing down our necks.
The Hour is not a second Shattering Blow. It's a second Pillars of Creation.
Hour isn't a long term improvement though? It's a short term reprieve to get us out of a bad spot a couple of times.
Gisena has paid huge dividends every time we've invested in her. Besides a Perfect Merger grants increased effectiveness against all Apocryphal procs not just this one on top of the increased mitigation.
yeah, are we really willing to let Gisena permanently eat Adorie? Is Adorie willing (I don't think she is because of the - Loyalty) ? Can this cheat the Geas and let us take both to another world?
That's the only way the merger's benefits are permanent. I don't want to unethically bind Adorie and Augustine against their will. The only explicitly permanent merger is Ending True, which would be the option to take if you want permanent benefits. It's cheap and we can afford it now (unlike Perfect which is looking to kill us from Arete debt), but is also as powerful as Perfect, and is a permanent thing.
In any case, the current arguments for / against HoD are probably not that relevant I think because the winning CtF plan doesn't seem to be taking it, and I see nearly 0 votes for it.
Main issue is either, we weaken heavily because we can't sustain RoW and Gisena with Merger takes our place (we cannot afford Perfect) or, we take CtF and we continue fighting as a more powerful combatant with Living Legend + the other thing.
I don't think CtF marginalises or harms Gisena. The High Merger spends less Arete than her Perfect Merger, so that Arete is directly spent on protecting her future in the Epilogue. Right now, we need to win and I think CtF is the most efficient choice for that because Hunger will be much weaker than he is right now unless we take CtF and get RoW extension.
In any case, the current arguments for / against HoD are probably not that relevant I think because the winning CtF plan doesn't seem to be taking it, and I see nearly 0 votes for it.
Main issue is either, we weaken heavily because we can't sustain RoW and Gisena with Merger takes our place (we cannot afford Perfect) or, we take CtF and we continue fighting as a more powerful combatant with Living Legend + the other thing.
I don't think CtF marginalises or harms Gisena. The High Merger spends less Arete than her Perfect Merger, so that Arete is directly spent on protecting her future in the Epilogue. Right now, we need to win and I think CtF is the most efficient choice for that because Hunger will be much weaker than he is right now unless we take CtF and get RoW extension.
Most of these discussions have been assuming that we are spending 50A. I certainly intend to produce as much fan-work in the next couple weeks as possible.
In lieu of taking Amaranth Star, Hunger takes What Rains May Come, fixing Letrizia's immediate wound issues and granting himself at least +30% effectiveness from the reversed wound penalties*. With Letrizia's and Hunger's injuries far less pressing, in Hunter Hunted, I assume the increased effectiveness from reversing wound penalties is equalized by the increased danger from having less Rank and agility. I take the Plumed Offering there, obtaining +0.5 Arete, and selecting the 7-Arete option of Echo of the Forebear + Undying Echo + Undying Vanguard. Hunger is at (+2+2-7+0.5 = -2.5) Arete relative to the Second Form/Pristine Star Hunger. He does not suffer from Chill of the Grave due to not selecting the Mire Wolf (+5% Effectiveness).
Attributes-wise, Hunger is now at -0.25 Rank, --Agility, + Strength, +++Constitution relative to the original. Not so great.
I'd obviously choose not to go to the Temple of the False Moon in Wolf Moon, but that would make projections too difficult. Instead I select +0.5 Arete as opposed to +1 Pick, bringing Hunger up to net -2 Arete. The Route options in Synchronization Complete are significantly safer, but we can't exactly convert this to a benefit. In A Moment's Repreive, Hallow Star (from Pristine Star) is no longer an option nor is it needed due to previous choices. Instead Gisena gets Sorcerous Advancement I. I assume there will not be any practical effects for purposes of this build from these two advantages.
We proceed to A Far Bastion. Hunger selects Murderer's Panoply (with the caveat of being -1 Echo of the Forebear due to -1 Pick). Murderer's Panoply has Undying Echo which we already have, so we remain at -2 Arete relative to Canon!Hunger. Hunger is significantly more powerful relative to Canon!Hunger at this point, so I have rather more leeway with my pick options. My decisions in The Solitary Moon, War and Wind and Winnowing Garden are unchanged. In Cutting Through we grab Stranglethorn as opposed to the canonical Apex.
I would pick 'Risky' in Synchronization Complete, as Letrizia is far safer due to Undying Vanguard, and with the increased power I would go for Aggressive in The Solitary Moon, with a net of something like +20% effectiveness & Gisena & Thousand Cuts within the Temple, which would absolutely make the option far more viable from multiple perspectives. Unfortunately, this would change too much of the story, so I'll stick with the canon decisions, even if I feel they are with the retrospective build suboptimal.
- No Chill of the Grave penalty (+5% Effectiveness)
- No Second Form/Form of Rage
- Has Thousand Cuts
- Has Undying Vanguard
- Has What Rains May Come
- No Healing or Regeneration
- Likely has ~40% HP from injuries, with ~+30% effectiveness from What Rains May Come.
- ~0.4 Rank
- Stranglethorn
My evaluation of Hunger's battle with the Magus is that the odds are somewhat more in his favor (far lower odds of Gisena dying due to Undying Vanguard for example), but not so much that Hunger could pick Seize the Day without it being considered as more risky. So my decision there remains unchanged, even if an extra pick (in leiu of a re-roll) would be nice. Hunger picks the canonical Bloodmight in The Ritual Grounds because at this point he really needs healing to not die at this point. Also because not getting Blood domain massively alters all subsequent choices, making planning difficult without canon guidance. Of course, the Dreadbeast should be evaluated as the much safer fight due to Thousand Cuts, but that way lies deviation from canon.
Coin and Realm, Red of Sky and Fang have their choices unchanged. In Fending Off/Meditations on the Sword, my build is The Ring of Power - Quickening plus The Ring of Power - Dominion (War), with Hunger now having +5 Arete relative to Canon!Hunger (this is when Thousand Cuts was purchased). Hunger now has high-end regeneration, so keeping track of HP is no longer relevant. He does have Lingering Paralysis, as I evaluate his increased capabilities insufficient to substantially alter the Outrider battle outcome.
Hunger will take Exalted Spirit in Throne and Alter, and will instead Buff Gisena. I assume this will give Gisena something like either a better version of Sublime Attainment, or discount the Arete cost to nothing when considered in Conjunction with Gisena's Sorcerous Advancement from A Moment's Reprieve. This would be my preferred option in that vote itself, as Vareir is an exceedingly dangerous opponent I'd rather just skip altogether. Given the importance of Hunger's battle with Vanreir to the story, this deviation will have to remain hypothetical.
Hunger will take Exalted Spirit in Throne and Alter (he already has Fall of the Night), following with Canon into the Vareir fight, Hunger will instead select Preparation: Focus as opposed to still select Preparation: Dialogue, though odds are presumably improved due to Exalted Spirit. Hunger has higher intelligence and +10% effectiveness in the fight itself, which does makes the fight safer, but I do assume that we still suffer the Devastating Consequence of True Maiming will still occur. Hunger picks Feat: Kinslayer. He now has Rank: 5, as well as +5 Arete relative to canon. Hunger will select The Ring of Power - Dominion (Passion) in Arisen Again. He now has +3 Arete relative to canon.
Thunder of Blood is unchanged. Versh may have Rank 4.5**, but Hunger is Rank 5. The plot for the Hot Springs events are likely to be significantly adjusted positively after considering the fact that Hunger with Rank 5 versus his canon Rank 4.3. Letrizia will pick Hot Springs and Go in Impunity. Hunger will pick Slice Fate, gaining 1 reroll/day and enabling Letrizia to become the Devouring Sorceress. Duh. We are now at 3+0.75-7 = -3.25 Arete relative to canon (Arete benchmarked at 9.5, so we have 6.25). Hunger's choices in All Along the Watchtower is unchanged. We do not investigate Elixir's magic system, so that's obviated.
Hunger's at 80% Heal, 40% double healing. Canon we got double healing, and I assume that Lingering Paralysis were cured, with True Maiming likely reduced in severity rather than completely cured, leaving Hunger with a mitigated True Maiming. We'll retain Letrizia's Magic being 7-Arete equivalent in Accursed Implement, but fluffed into being the 'Devouring Sorceress' instead of Sharpbright. Other options are unchanged. Hunger does not have Cut Through, so is +15.75 Arete relative to Canon. Due to not investigating the Hot Spring's magical System, Hunger does not acquire Edeldross, so has another +7 Arete relative to canon, and is now at +22.75 Arete.
In High Glades, Hunger will go for Farm, then Clear (+1 Arete), as opposed tohis retain the canonical Stay and Train option. He does not perform a long term investment into Crimson Flare (+1 Arete) nor does he pick Edeldross Adept (+2 Arete). He picks up Once and Future I in Fleeting Respite as well as +0.75 Arete instead of +1 Pick(+2.5 Arete relative to canon), bringing his effective Rank to 6 (7 military). At this point, Hunger is rather weaker than Canon, so to make up for that deficit, he also purchases Renaissance Woman in Wind Full of Knivesand All-Defeating Stance if it is needed to ensure victory (Hunger has 55.75 Arete to spend at this point). The remainder of the Temple should be, put simply, a stomp due to Gisena's True Nullity + Rank 6/7 Hunger. Hunger will purchase Pre-Eminence for War & Passion as well as Knife at The Ultimate Price, purchasing the standard Vigor Incarnate/Firce Quickening in the interim updates to that point.
With the Temple defeated, Hunger now converts the Chief Dominion of Blood and his two Pre-Eminences into Ruling Ring. Hunger picks up Assault Halo in the a suitably synergistic 7-Arete Advancement (Ideally Azure Moon, Philospher's Wreathe or upgraded Pillar's of Eternity) in Wake of Silence. He picks Feat: Mightier in The World Your Oyster. He now has Rank (5+ 0.15*1.2+0.3*1.2 = 5.54 )/6.54/7.54 as well as All-Defeating Stance at 1.33x power, as well as ++ Progression from Ruling Ring. Relative to canon, Hunger has +5.75 Arete and is making good progress to purchasing Pillars of Eternity by Threefold Meditations (which we skip owing to not having the Praxis; +12 Arete; +17.75 Arete relative to canon).
By Ageless Hour, this version of Hunger has 25.25 Arete***. By Choice of Import, the Apocryphal Curse strikes at 80% power due to Stage 2 Mitigation + All-Defeating Stance (at 1.33x power****). With Trinity obtainable early, I'd get A Promise Kept, which would have immense synergy with the newly-bought Pillars of Eternity (50% positive Apoc in time-dilation every month compounded with Ruling Ring's ++ Progression). Artemisnin mitigation for the Affliction of Decimation will also be acquired early, making its handling far easier, Gisena's Artefacts are significantly augmented compared to canon owing to Renaissance Woman, and she starts acquiring additional graces much earlier, all of which will make Hunger's future journeys from the Temple-onward far easier. To say nothing of the impacts of a two-stage mitigation to the Tyrant's Doom due to us not picking Uttermost.. Superior scaling & safety, what's not to like? Well, aside from not having the Praxis or Surgecraft.
This Hunger does have 3 unfilled Defining Advancement Slots, which would ideally be filled with appropriately themed advancements in the post-Temple quest. The Magic System preferred for Hunger to study would be Azure Moon (Soul Evocation of the Imprisoner), but the timing within the build is off to acquire it.
*It's not clear how What Rains May Come's effectiveness boost effect works. For example, whether it applies on the 'base' wound penalty, or whether is applies on 'after accretion mitigation' wound penalty. I assume the latter.
** Rank 5 Hunger w/Exalted Spirit would probably be able to boost Verch to Rank 5.25 without Arete expenditure. I assume he can't/won't due to injuries.
***Fanwork production would likely be much lower when considering that the plot would have been gone through faster, and that much of omake surges were due to Praxis DEEPLORE, so current projections are likely... excessive.
****Assault Halo increases the numerical values in All-Defeating by 1/3, but it is not clear if this would also apply to the mitigation aspect of All-Defeating. I assume it does not.
My build's been adjusted as above - Stranglethorn going into the Magus fight with odds of winning not substantially lowered, entering the Vanreir fight with somewhat increased chances of victory due to Exalted Spirit boosting Preparation: Dialogue, Once and Future I to immediately synergize with Kinslayer's Rank 5, with Stranglethorn boosting the subsequent Rank Gains from Feat: Knife and Feat: Mightier to leave Hunger at something like Rank 5.54 (lower than a theoratical 5.585 with Uttermost's +30%, but still rather significant).
We're going into hypotheticals here, but going into Forefront, we'll get something Subordination instead, as the Azure Ring Hatefulness effect is superbly unlikely to affect RW Gisena (True Nullity, extreme will & cleverness). It's not clear how significant the powerup difference from the Ring Azure compared to Ruler and Vassal is, but we can assume that Gisena can artifice even better/faster especially after considering the effects of Renaissance Woman. 10 Arete from the Ring Azure in Wake of Silence would probably be converted into an accelerated/empowered Pillars of Eternity instead of the usual advancements (.
The build's pretty greedy heading into the end of the Temple, and there as some complications as a result even with Renaissance Woman carrying. Instead of Hunger doing something like Mass Ennoblement in World Your Oyster, we'd probably be at 'Gisena makes some artifact' instead, or 'Temple society just gets rekt I guess'. Hunger would probably start grinding picks due to the APK/RR synergy. We'll retain Triumphal Gleam in Mists of Quickening (effective +70% Rank now), but lower temporary effective power likely means Hunger has to go for Cut Through instead of Attempt Diplomacy (+3 Arete). The Mizuku/Sovereignty crisis is at least handleable due to both mitigation and Gisena being a peer to Hunger, even without the Praxis.
We'd actually have enough Arete to purchase a fifth 25-Arete option by the time we get into A Fire Woken (19+3-10+17.75 = 29.75 Arete). Since we aren't eligible for any of the 25-Arete Advancements (No Silver, No Outer Darkness, No Edeldross to upgrade into Elixir), we are now solidly in the realm of 'make stuff up as we go'. Hunger will go grab Magic-Defeating, 0.5 external mitigation to Apocryphal for 7 Arete is an amazing bargain, and it now strikes at 75% power. We acquire Aobaru, with our Arete now at +23.75 relative to canon. Hunger will Slack Off in Sovereign Jewel, getting ++ Mental Stability as a result. There isn't any real minuses to this since Hunger has a superbly synergistic build and enough free Arete to flashbuy All-Defeating Stance if the situation actually becomes bad.
Dawn and Thereafter has another deviation at this point, as having the 2nd-stage Artemisnin mitigation to the Decimation means that we'd have to modify the available options to be '20% easier and 40% more varied/preferable'. We'll probably go for the very comfy The Contest of Ages as well as Firmament Reinforcement. We have now solidly deviated from Canon. Hunger does have Doom of Tyranny at Stage 2 Mitigation and something like Rank ~6.6 in matters Fishing plus [Ring of Power], so this shouldn't be too hard. In the Realm of MythBe the Change sidequest, Hunger does not have the ability to Ennoble people, his mental attributes are okay, we do have Gisena with RW but we've already Slacked Off and a Gisena carry probably wouldn't qualify for Feat: Crown anyway. We'll probably go for the much more modest Intervention Mk. I instead and the ++ Progression version of Honing, achieving another +11 Arete relative to canon (now at +34.75 Arete). On Hunger's way to The Contest of Ages, he will purchase Vanquisher Halo, with his Rank gains now at +90%. We'll just need to figure out how to not brainwash people with our Charisma in the future.
It's highly likely the build will skip Nilfel entirely, but either way we'll probably get as many synergistic non-Praxis Advancements as possible. With the Realm of Evening available it should be fairly feasible to generate encounters to qualify for something like Azure Moon (Soul Evocation of the Imprisoner), then get Philospher's Wreath (boost Soul Evocation + Gisena) and optionally Linear Halo to buff Soul Evocation growth speed further (Opalescent Tower + maxed on Noonday Sun would be preferred, but we need Skyveil for that route, and it isn't taken here). Afterwards grab something like Companions of the King and buff Aobaru/Gisena/Aeria/Letrizia, Once and Future II (potentially OaF III), All-Defeating. There's plenty of Arete left to purchase A Chosen Purpose for Aobaru, Sword in the Stone and other upgrades, even. Significant Rank Gains from practicing our Soul Evocations are fairly likely. With massive rank & improve Azure, Gisena will probably Singularity through her graces fast enough to be a peer to Hunger. Grabbing an Archmage-analogue from increasingly intense Soul Evocation training at ++ Progression would probably occur at some point.
Of course, SAVEing is also possible, in which case it might actually be plausible to purchase the Seraph of Heroism (Comitted) - We spent something like 217 Arete plus a Lesser Wish going up to Haeliel so it's pretty doable as we would have a budget of like 251.5 Arete + Lesser Wish + generally higher group powerlevel. Since this build only has 3 Panoply Slots & no Praxis, we can't take the Seraph's Favor, instead grabbing something like Seraph's Grace, Reprieve Deferred (basically a defensive True Wish vs Apoc at Hunger's level) & Advise Corner. Given the surfeit of Wishes and Aretebombs (by the time we hit Maiden there's an extra 193 Arete, seven lesser wishes for a total of 410 Arete and eight lesser wishes), it's difficult to predict where the build is going to go. Many advancements provided would need to be effectively reworked due to Hunger not having the Praxis and having a Soul Evocation in which he has continued notable growth within. There will also be Ringwar-related challenges for Hunger to deal with, though he'll probably outscale them fairly rapidly.
Hunger is a very good writer, actually. He could keep up with Gisena's banter with very few INT or WITS +s. Though I'm not sure why you'd think such an advancement would be justifiable from Accretion or cost only 25 Arete!
oh, huh.
I didn't think the advancement is justifiable from Accretion- it was designed to be antisynergistic with everything (except Arete) while still potentially being good, which includes antisynergy with basic build choices and Rank. The reason I considered it potentially worth <=25 Arete was that, although the advancement functions at ISH elevation 5.5, it circumscribes the actual usefulness of this effect at almost every turn, and how much usefulness remains is not defined (the advancement makes it clear what sorts of things make an effect easier or harder(its level of importance) and which things don't(logic), but not how much of an effect is actually feasible with a given number of actions. It's plausible, given the descriptions given, that this is about enough to defeat a fight that would otherwise be 1 Pick without needing to properly engage in it, and no further.). It does have the second effect of resurrection, which it does not circumscribe, but I figured Sword In The Stone also has a (possibly more reliable, possibly less reliable- it doesn't have the explicit failure conditions of lowered thread activity or an ISH benchmark and it's part of an advancement which gives a flat +ISH bonus, implying excessive elevation on its part) resurrection option and helpfully gives access to quite substantial buffs and some other benefits.
Hang on, I was under the impression we voted Conservative going into the Temple. We just, uh, never actually played like that, at least up until Vacation. Even then, as Gisena notes at the Kaguya Resort, we really didn't.
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