- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Sure. It could really improve things for me.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Sure. It could really improve things for me.
Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Nix: Loopholes! I do love loopholes. You're in the clear for Category I-III, but from Category IV onwards they'll mostly be too sapient. I mean, technically heroes aren't supposed to kill animals either, but we localized the morality for this condition and it looks like on Earth (ugh) it's okay as long as the animals are ugly.
- Location
- 1
- Commentary - Crossworld Arena
- builds eventually
6916 words prebuilds.
storage temporary
- Commentary - Downloaded
-
Downloaded
...boy you sure are talking it up. I don't actually strongly welcome the fate described so far, but- having already read the CYOA- I can conclude that as long as my first roll doesn't land on 3, there will probably be a possible build which I would Welcome, if not Strongly welcome.
It also sounds like whoever this is is either the same group that created the Forebear, or inspired by them... but tough to know which... Also, when they say a 'grim procession', does that mean that harder tasks will be given until the CYOA-taker eventually succeeds, or that if the CYOA-taker succeeds the first time they're fine and if they succeed the second time tough luck the procession is locked in?
100 Ordinal Credits. Quite a large number! I hope there's an adequate amount of cheap options that individual remaining Credits can be spent on- it's mildly annoying when there's 1 character creation resource left but nothing to spend it on.
5 Cerulean Obols. Very standard.
0 Radiant Electrum... well, that's unusual.
—
It'd be funny if after I mentioned only 3 is a problem I rolled a 3.
yep.
Funny.
[1] - Do As Thou Wilt: The best option. Freedom of choice is worth more than 2 Obols.
[2] - Hegemon: A runner up. It doesn't say you can't take things slowly and safely; If further choices are carefully-made, this can be made fairly low in risk, and once the task is finally accomplished the restriction is absent. The 2 Obols are a relatively small consideration. [+2 Cerulean Obols]
[3] - Shards of Infinity: Man I've really been shafted here this option immediately gives five people 'uncapped potential' and a power buff and then tells you to go fish. Also they aren't randos they're important. Also they want me dead. 4 Obols? bah. But technically there isn't a rule here saying you can't run! in theory! [+4 Cerulean Obols]
—-
Destination
[ ] An Incarnate Radius - Considering (Bad)Koji exists, this is probably more dangerous than 'A Perilous Realm', for less benefit. ...At least, without the Shards of Infinity purpose. With that, dangerous, rapidly-advancing opponents are already guaranteed- but otherwise, there's only one reason I might pick An Incarnate Radius, and we'll get to that one... later. (and I probably still wouldn't. BadKoji is really heckin' bad. Hates all the coolio-est people.) [+2 Cerulean Obols]
[ ] A Modest Realm - This would be a great option!... if I wasn't forced into Shards Of Infinity! Staying on mundane earth with Do As Thou Wilt makes for a CYOA which is a strict improvement, not a bad. but with Shards, the half-budget is probably suicide... Actually, y'know what... Technically, Hunger's Realm should qualify as this. It's a 'comfy' setting, but also there's like at least a 10% chance as a lowball that the Maiden rolls in and kills everyone or something each year. It's time-accelerated and so still a great choice, but that danger Is real and the magnitude Is extreme.
Hunger's Realm with Hegemon is probably suicide, of course. Even with him leaving eventually, he's going to leave behind Someone and that Someone is going to be ISH Szirfty-Six or whatever.
[ ] A Comparable Realm - I assume this assessment of the danger of the world is not accounting for BadKoji in Aincrad. But also I'm pretty sure Aincrad scales higher than DnD in most reifications? Even accounting for divine beings, I don't think DnD has native threats which can react on the scale of 'several thousand distinct attacks per second with comparable acceleration'; the only advantage the divine have is maybe not being killable through that.
[ ] A Perilous Realm - [+3 Cerulean Obols]
"New World" of Overlord: [+1 Cerulean Obol]. ... I've mentioned my assessments above, but also, Overlord is the comic where a lich guy gets transported with his guild base to a new world, right. Like DnD, I didn't get the impression from the memes I've seen and so on that mental-speed-acceleration of the requisite level exists... and checking the wiki, although 'time stop' and 'haste' do exist, they have limited durations(and has to actually get cast in time) and probably-don't-stack-arbitrarily-as-a-passive respectively, leaving Wish Upon A Star as a threat. But not, like, a threat that isn't around in Aincrad?
—-
[ ] Gamble - Under the circumstances of Shards, I think this is worth doing once. Otherwise... probably not? 1 is pretty sucky, 2 is okay, 3 is passable, 4 is acceptable if you got Do As Thou Wilt as is 5, 6 is acceptable (but a bad idea with Shards). 7 seems fine and 8 seems stupid and insufficiently-compensated.
That in mind... I'm not using the forum roller because it's annoying. 7... yeah, that's acceptable.
First Gamble: [+1 Radiant Electrum].
Second Gamble: -20% Drawback, but no reward.
Third Gamble: x2 reward.
Begging off doesn't provide enough mitigation to be worth it in most cases, I think... It could be funny for a Prepare To Die build where you roll 2 drawbacks + prepare to die and mitigate it by 70%, though I'm not sure how that'd work. that scenario aside, Begging Off would probably be selectively-worthwhile if it was instead 'you cannot take drawbacks, pay 2 Cerulean Obols' or something.
[ ] 1: Midsummer's Rhapsody - Sucks pretty badly but I don't think it actually increases danger all that much. Something something Ishida Koji something something The Speech something something the power discrepancy is too big. And a War isn't so much of a seeking-out force as Bad Koji. [+2 Cerulean Obols]
[ ] 2: Caress of Winter - The trouble with the ethereal beauty for Koji is that he's also getting mind whammied. Otherwise, the beauty would just be some loser who happens to relate to Miala. If this doesn't implant the mental weakness... whatever. also, like... say you take this option. You have two choices: continue the relationship (enlivened life but annoying problems), break off the relationship(this is just where you started but you have an extra Obol).
Like, if the tragedy is not going to actually kill you, you can take this drawback and end up in a situation strictly superior to where you started. Also I'd expect you'd, y'know, Eventually outscale the problems? [+1 Cerulean Obol]
[ ] 3: Incursion - it's an inconvenience but it probably won't kill you and if you survive and become a hegemon or analogously-locally-powerful you will not actually need your full power much. I assume, under the self-defence clause, that 'training your supernatural power for the express purpose of not dying to your Task' is also always valid- it's just self-defence on a longer timescale. [+2 Cerulean Obols]
[ ] 4: Impelled - with the human world or a scenario where you outclass the setting this is completely fine; for not that(or with SHARDS OF INFINITY) not so much.
Once you win it doesn't matter. allies also provide mitigation. [+50 Ordinal Coins]
[ ] 5: Thinblood - Pretty bad if you don't have a solid source of Progression. With a solid source of progression... it's still pretty bad, because esoteric 'setbacks' like 'reputation loss' are affected as well, and it is not the case that you always instantly know when your reputation is reduced; If we're going with 'maximally unfavorable interpretations', then any time an existing enemy gets stronger is a 'setback' which will worsen further unless you accept a permanent diminishment despite not knowing the problem exists or what to sacrifice.
If we ignore that, then it could be manageable. [+75 Ordinal Coins]
[ ] 6: Forbidding - With Hegemon this is fine- you don't need to kill, you need to control. With Do As Thou Wilt this is fine- you don't need to kill period. With Shards, however, all 5 Shardbearers are going to be both important and deadly, and they progress- hence cannot be surpassed just enough to restrain them and then left alone until sheer time overcomes their resilience. [+100 Ordinal Coins]
[ ] 7: Plague - Assuming that you can't get enough power immediately-upon-spawning to make Plague's description false, it should be possible to create new life and life force fast enough that the curse is held at bay indefinitely. No matter the Purpose chosen, this is an acceptable drawback, and yet low in price. [+3 Cerulean Obols]
[ ] 8: A Maw - no. [+3 Cerulean Obols]
[ ] Prepare to Die - This doesn't actually seem like a complete death sentence. It doesn't say that Hunger has an indenture task before this one(if he did, he'd be starting with enough power that it's not just a matter of time, considering his Arete generation.), and we know Hunger's out there, and cursebearer scry protections don't apply to direct eyesight (or his companions). He starts without that much, because all he has is the Praxis (sure it'll scale but I'm talking about killing him before the day is out). Arete generation requires him to spend time doing things. Ishida was able to cross all of Aincrad in a few hours, just after his respec.
It's probably possible, with +9 Cerulean Obols available, to track Hunger down in under a day and- as long as he doesn't rules-lawyer the Arete generation rules by starting an extremely in-depth gambling minigame and performing several dozen Vote-requiring actions over the course of his first hour despite being in perfect safety and earn enough Arete for 20 praxis picks- kill him.
(heck, tracking him might not even be that hard- he has the Decimators Affliction, so just triangulate his position by watching your healthbar.)
(granted he probably starts with Some praxis techniques because he's a combat-type but the 'combat-type' power level is 'continent to planetary' and Sword is potential-focused.)
[+9 Cerulean Obols]
—-
[ ] A Saga. This option is best if you're taking a safe realm, since mundane earth is less than half as dangerous as Aincrad over a 5-month+ span. Also if you're already in excessive danger like with SHARDS OF THE INFINITE- given the structure of A Saga, it probably won't actually cause Any more danger than baseline shards for Aincrad until you resolve Shards, because the First Segment is 'Koji want you dead', and he probably gets a shard becauseexpletive youhe's the most notable individual of all.
[+1 Radiant Electrum].
[ ] Safety Off - wha-no! Why would you take this? I mean, I guess you could mainline Ordinals over Cardinals to mitigate it? But if your build doesn't do that already... what, do you want to die instantly? [+1 Radiant Electrum]
First - Untouchable: The only good thing about this is that if you can figure out how to slow down Koji's progression (trap him in a time-slow? level-drain?) without convincing him otherwise or putting an end to him, you can hold back the other Saga portions. Also apparently convincing him is possible because he hasn't reached SupMan 999 yet or whatever? or is it because you don't actually do anything bad to warrant the attack? you'd think it'd be easy to convince him then...
Second - Totality: ...The suggested solution seems weird. You need the well-being and regard of others? then... set up a city... for Aincradian Natives or not-combat-interested chosen... and protect it? Why in the world would you, seeking the wellbeing and regard of others, engage the group in combat?
granted, if you beat Untouchable, you are presumably stronger than everyone else in the world except Kayaba and therefore can afford to be a stupid and do what the option says.
Third - A New Era: Solution:
physically lift your cities and move them
If the Titan is not applying Spacial Magic- and it was not described as doing so- it should be solvable by the time you outscale post-heathcliff-Koji.
And then you can handle killing it once you reach endgame levels or whatever.
Fourth - Unclaimed Fastness: So.......... this challenge is irrelevant because getting this far requires you to be stronger than all the other people. it's basically a free buff.
I'm also baffled at how Kayaba would contrive for people to wish for 'remove the influence of the guy who saved us from Titan Man'. unless they go 'remove whatever made the titan show up'? but if Kayaba can tell the Saga portions are from the CYOA-taker, he knows this is part of the Saga, is he just going along with it on purpose?
There's a clever little advantage to the failure outcome here- unlikely as it is for it to come up- which I shall get to eventually.
Fifth - A Reckoning: hm, wait, is this why Untouchable slows down everything else? so you can't get to Fifth without actually resolving it and end up in a superposition of things?
I'm not sure if it's actually possible to get strong enough for this with most of the option-combinations? but First Sword + Shattering probably works, and we'll see if anything else. I'm also not sure if the Horror King Armada should really count as part of the Saga- Horror King doesn't seem ontologically 'native' or 'tied' to Aincrad so much as he's Terribad Person Of Strong who dropped a seed into Aincrad.
—-
this Ordinal Coins summary seems pretty questionable. I guess the ~3-coin options are like that but the others nooot so much?
Melodious / Mask
[ ] I: Gourmet [2 Ordinal Coins] - The cost is trivial and the effect mostly likewise- at least in most settings. If you choose your destination correctly, it could be worth something- I recall hearing about a series that dramatises... wine tasting? as a major competition of grand importance, there might be one like that but with magic backing it up.
[ ] II: Ordinal Ordering [20 Ordinal Coins] - a magic food supply... If you don't choose your setting to make it worth it, it won't be, but there Are settings like that- I'm mostly baffled by the variants which are magically potent(shouldn't there be a way to use that magic to not starve?) but they exist. like... uh... The Great Tower sort of counts (it's also pretty high in escalation and upper limits, though I can't solidly say it's worse than Aincrad.) but only if you're the protagonist who sacrificed his identity for that... I Think I've read something else which had food matter a lot but I don't remember enough.
It'd maybe matter a little in some circumstances otherwise but if I don't have power enough for 'ideal body composition' I am going to die from the shardholders.
[ ] III: Resplendency [60 Ordinal Coins] - It's a solid multiplier if you can build around it, but it's... well, I've covered my thoughts on Awe before. This doesn't go as far, but I still dislike it on principle... it'd be useful if forced into the Saga or something, 2 of 5 are pseudosocial tasks.
OR
[ ] III: The Mask of Autumn [43 Ordinal Coins] - ...a 10th level sorceror doesn't seem worth it, regardless of the sorcerous origin*. 'it' being '65 Ordinal Coins and also you'll have to spend more to not starve'. I assume that you are, indeed, referring to 10th Character level, not 10th Spell level, which would be a bit different.
*barring reinterpreting some mechanical 'luck' effects with limited applicability into proper Luck effects with endless versatility or possibly certain other mechanical effects as being more general.
Sight / Seal
[ ] I: Delayed Gratification [2 Ordinal Coins] - This option seems kinda suspicious. It also doesn't actually incentivize training? it's an incentive to... encounter temptations faster than you can indulge in them all. And also an incentive to live in the opposite of a hyperbolic time chamber.
[ ] II: Beautiful World [10 Ordinal Coins] - I assume this doesn't work to, say, make murder not exist because it is cringe. Assuming that assumption, I struggle to imagine any build that would ever need this, aside from the cop-out answer of 'pick a setting which is painting-oriented, make the world look like your art style, and be famed for your 100% realistic pictures' or something.
[ ] III: Enter the Infinite [34 Ordinal Coins] - ...Am I missing a reason this isn't a hyperbolic time chamber deal.
Like, Koji gained a bunch of xp for beating kayaba in a (highly advanced) childrens card game. there are powersets here where HIGH STAKES RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES give growth. Being a delusion doesn't make that not true!
Given the phrasing, though, taking this can't be justified, as its actual capabilities are hard to be sure of.
[ ] III: The Wrappings [54 Ordinal Coins] - It's hard to tell exactly how useful this is because I don't know what most of these are and also they seem completely inconsistent in power. one says 'you get a magic system, incredible talent there, a custom ability at least as good as instantly creating ultrafire wherever you're looking, soul manipulation, resurrection, the ability to see life force, dimensional travel, a boost to all of the above, and some other thing I forgot'. the other one says 'you can shoot laser beams reflexively.'.
...how the heck are these Equivalent? The first one is practically a strict upgrade over the latter it's just not reflexive! is the point that the implants can be upgraded by something?
It doesn't actually seem worth the Ordinal Price, though.
Profess / Preference
[ ] I: Profoundly Tasteful [6 Ordinal Coins] - ...This is either profoundly unethical or it's creating a world where everyone likes what I like from scratch. It's also minor, as the cost denotes.
[ ] II: Preference Ranking [14 Ordinal Coins] - This one's pretty good! It's not quite a full luck effect but it's generically positive, and if you want something that's bad, it'll lower your odds and hopefully you'll avoid it! It also might be usable as a full luck effect by being chosen for 'missions' with probability exponentially proportional to how often you win.
[ ] III: All's Fair [35 Ordinal Coins] - And this is also quite good! Particularly with Aincrad (Saga), which has reality-warping show up three times and speed at least once, or in certain higher-tier settings. if we assume this operates with a 'does what it says it does' elevation level (and it Is implied this CYOA is from a group far above Hunger or Gisena), you could take the setting I mentioned back in dynasty as perilous and be effectively inured to all further danger because the important people are passively using reality-warping at all times.
OR
[ ] III: The Professor [43 Ordinal Coins] - Or this. This is good too. Y'know, The Professor has quantitative values: how fast it improves other things, and how easily. Also, this applies to Radiant Electrum powers too, so, y'know, there's that.
it also accelerates with interesting conflict, which is something potentially usable.
Ally / Alternate
[ ] I: Attribution Requested [5 Ordinal Coins] - This is fairly minor but not as minor as profoundly tasteful and the like. It's actually useful for survival! RAW it'd even let you dip out of Aincrad (or wherever) and back as long as you have an Ally on earth and an Ally in Aincrad.
[ ] II: Ally [20 Ordinal Coins] - Ehhhh... it doesn't cost that much, but unless you cheese it with things like 'ordinal spiral teacher'...
and frankly it shouldn't be cheesable like that? it's 'more useful', not 'more powerful'. Though arguably you could cheese this with a situation where Captain America would be Extremely Useful?Perilous world: insert some perilous world here except everyone is a huge captain america(MCU) fan without exception
[ ] III: Armada [70 Ordinal Coins] - This option picks 'Power and potential' rather than 'usefulness', which means things like 'ordinal spiral teacher' are on the table! something something a person who is potential-crippled and cannot learn more magic, but is already very strong and also knows how to teach All Da Magic Systems Evar.
It's also potentially an efficient option without cheese but really probably not? 95 Ordinal Coins is probably more than enough to triple your power... you could all-in on power or on potential and use Armada to have the converse also available?
terrible with Safety Off- it'd be one thing if the Allies gained further power as you gained your Obols/Electrum powers but they just don't.
OR
[ ] III: Protean Lord [45 Ordinal Coins] - Could be good, not all that exceptional... probably more powerful if you scale faster, since alternate yous will be scaling faster too? Depending on how it works it could be a potential multiplier by focusing on what it doesn't boost and periodically using it to boost your physicals to match (though you'd need to keep a like... 0.01% chance per month of going for physicals that month or something, to keep your alternate selves extant.)
Dream / Double
[ ] I: Twice [3 Ordinal Coins] - +1 Life is definitely worth the mere 3 Ordinal Coins.
[ ] II: Multithreading [28 Ordinal Coins] - Pretty good. I'm not sure it's worth the ordinal coins but only because of the other great options like preference ranking, professor, all's fair, and so on. But assuming it can be fit in, it's solidly better than, say, Mask Of Autumn. 8x minds doesn't make you physically faster, but it wouldn't be that hard to get a non-body ability.finally a use for mask of autumn
[ ] III: Dual Life [23 Ordinal Coins] - Even better than Twice, and a solid reason to spec into Dream/Double- actually, where do these names come from from? like, Dual Life is the only option here which involves dreams. And unless you consider 'twice' to count, it's also the only doubler. Savor and Multithreading aren't themed after that. or is it 'Dream divided by double'? what does that me-anyway. ahem. The only problem is I have SHARDS and the shardbearers want me dead and have no skill limit so grinding elsewhere isn't a help.
This also makes 'A Modest Realm - Earth' utterly worthless because the price to get Dual Life is 23+3+28= 59 Ordinal Coins which is less than the Ordinal Coins you get from not picking Modest. As long as you make sure your chosen realm doesn't have universe-hopping.
OR
[ ] III: Savor the Moment [65 Ordinal Coins] - A quality luxury and relatively comprehensible in its nature. Expensive, however, and at great opportunity cost for safety- and not optimized for progression(as is necessary with SHARDS), though in some possible interpretations(invoke in a day of heady ascension, rising by whole leaps of metacapability; retain the same rate of progress for a month, maintaining the heady ascension or whatever) this tool suffices to jump ISH levels. cooldown'd probably go to 'yes' though.
I wonder, if hypothetically I had Life Worth Living from Prototype (...I'm still working on imaging that. it turns out that coloring greyscale images-as I am doing for the distrust event thing image- is really time consuming.), would it make Savor inherently less usable? Really, the same goes for Cardinal access. A day can be productive while or through its enjoyment, but does the strictly non-abuse nature of the usage itself counterbalance the productivity?I also observe that if Enter The Infinite cannot be productive, as earlier text has suggested, then savor charges used in it should restore instantly
Extract / Exceed
[ ] I: Quintessence [2 Ordinal Coins] - Well, it's cheap, so probably worth it. The given (and fairly good) money-> time conversion for the by-default-non-scaling abilities like Protean Lord makes Professor much less relevant- obtain the currency of the whole world, and with it gather as much Protean power as 58 million years.
There's also a minor problem in the nature of this power- Suppose you take over the government and have them print a one trillion dollar bill. perfectly legal tender, completely usable. And then you take that $1T bill, and you consume it with Quintessence. what happens to the economy?
...nothing! As far as the economy is concerned, you had a bill printed, could've been a $1 bill or a $1Qa bill, and then you destroyed it. The currency doesn't get debased, because you didn't spend the bill- the money supply rose by $1T, but then it fell just as much.
Using Quintessence is a deflationary effect, because there's less money but not less Value- you can inflate the economy as much as you want, as long as you don't let it change anything.
[ ] II: Gauntlet [98 Ordinal Coins] -This is a minor convenience, a minor convenience, and another minor convenience, followed by the ability to trivialise certain settings(particularly, a lot of science fiction settings), and 'become... large.', which... 'kay.the nigh-indestructibility of the gauntlet itself is nice. But unless you're going for a setting which you know doesn't have any answers to Final Durance, it's... a questionable option. I don't think it beats out the others at the price point of 98 Coins(Kalym aside- I'll get to that, later, but it's also ambiguous in magnitude of benefit.).
OR
[ ] II: The Sword [33 Ordinal Coins] - Seems fairly good for the price, particularly at the default setting of Aincrad- killing things is already a power source, and EXP gains compensate for system assessments, not equipment or- I assume- actual (magically-derived) skills. (that, or the explosive progress acceleration would make a lot of skills grow much faster.). The flat requirement for stakes is unfortunate, however.
—-
Cerulean Obols
1 Cerulean Obol -> 15 Ordinal Coins... worth thinking about, if there's more need for Coin than Obol options in a final build. Some of them are very good, we'll see how the rest holds up (sure I've read the whole thing but I haven't analysed it as in-depth as this yet.)
[ ] Worldly Might [5 Cerulean Obols] - ...It's odd that this option doesn't give an Immersion example, since that's the default setting.in my Winter Dynasty setting of choice this is probably those fiat immortal-y reality-warpers and probably lets me self-insert as my self-insert. This aside, 5 Cerulean Obols... I'd expect there to be an Ordinal Coin option which beats this price-point for 'above average', unless those are exhausted or you choose a properly Perilous world.
[ ] Unearthly Might [11 Cerulean Obols] - ...I'm no expert on Dragon Ball and Exalted, but my understanding (and google search) is that Vegeta is probably like a universe buster or something and the other guy is probably like continent at best- which seems more like the gap between essence 1 terrestrial and essence 10 solar than terrestrial and stronger terrestrial, though I dunno what a dynastic head is.
[ ] Body Armor [8 Cerulean Obols] - Hm, an order of magnitude multiplier... in the default realm, this is a sufficient multiplier to beat out what Koji has access to- wait, no, +100% STR (attribute) can more or less than +100% force exertion... tough to say. It is equipment and hence not XP-accounted for, though; and the recovery is a solid early-on (to fairly late on, depending on how we define a 'single cell' and whether they can be left disconnected). it's hard to say how high the resistance is, though... ah, and upgradability is useful as well. Probably beats out Twice but also Twice is dirt cheap so... that's obvious.
Synergies:
*with Protean Lord... I'm not sure this is actually a synergy. It depends on if you can scatter your cells behind you? There's also a sense in which 99.9999% Phys. Resist is better than Phys. Immune because if you're Phys-Resistance (a lot) then... the in-principle possibility of dying from physical reduces the likelihood of a bypass of your resistance in some contexts. It makes 'bypass the resistance' not inherently obvious to people who read your character sheet.
*w/ Unearthly Might, +3 Cerulean Obols in exchange for getting mind-controlled. this isn't even a synergy it's a conjunctional feature or something.
*w/ Perchance to Dream, this... uh... can instead buff the Exaltation a bunch and mitigate its drawback a bit.
[ ] Chosen One [4 Cerulean Obols] - just the 'being a Chosen' thing could potentially be worth this much... depends a bit on your other choices and how much they let you scale. also on context- in Shards, this is possibly more about immediate power because SHARDS.
(20,000 XP, 20 BP, Skills at 250, 200, 100x2.)
incidentally, receiving the XP in a lump sum means you can minmax it a lot more than you could otherwise- not all optimal builds are attainable hill-climbing. I forget how milestones work but I think they were less than a x3 to cost on most stats, so this can get 100 in a stat of choice immediately at the cost of sucking at everything else... I'll have to check how much getting Sunder Tapestry cost...
One day later, I have discerned that actually optimizing the XP part of this is almost impossible. Why? Because we don't have the slightest clue what Classes... do... and that leaves a gaping hole in all gatherable information from Immersion- Classes reduce the costs for related things by ??? and make achievements related to them ???% more probable per ? levels and cost ??? XP. This applies to almost everything.
Still... the BP expenditure can be optimized (and of course the Skills selection can be optimized by picking better skills. Magelight and Automatization, specifically, apparently are 'special'.), and the use of Renewed Vigor could allow for reshuffling things further.
estimates..
You might wonder why I noted everything with a Skill Slot. This is because Skill Slots cost 500N XP, where 500 is the number of slots you have.Chaos-Touched(Prime)(1BP)
Ring Of The Foresaken (barely counts as an achievement. 1BP would be a ripoff.)
Nomenclature(1 BP) (note: not actually where Automatization comes from, that's just. a skill. Koji has.)
Arm Of Chaos(25 BP)Probably not meant to be more than 5 BP value with pre-requisites.
Taker Of Names (2 Pre-Req + 2 BP of cost)(should really not be costing Less than Arm but that's what this ruleset says!)
Running To Forever (1 BP )
The First Chaos Explorator(1 BP)
Death-Seeker (like 1 BP. gives a skill slot.)
Undead Wrestler (like 1 BP. gives a skill slot.)
Chaoswalker (probably meant to be like 5 BP)
Arm of Retribution (5 BP + 8(Prerequisites))(actual value: -20 BP) (grants 3 skills)
In Union, In Chaos (1 BP. Requires Arm Of Chaos++++, converted into Arm Of Retribution, which makes for 17+1.)
"Free XP" (7 BP)(grants a 90% XP discount to one selection)
No Rest For The Wicked (3 BP)
Arm of Retribution: Just Retributor(15 BP+5BP(Prerequisites without recursion)=20. goes well with the part where everyone is going to die.)
Automatization Expertise (3-4 BP? it gives 10,000 XP sure but only after you already have far more than that.)
Arms of Talos (technically doesn't say it requires Arm Of Retribution. 1 BP, 3 BP if Arm is available)
Specter of Midgard (3 BP, ignoring the part where it includes SupMan and hence -50 BP)
The First of Cybertron (5 BP, requires but doesn't remove Talos.) gives a skill, and +50 (Crafting)
Volumetric Shit Compressor (10 BP. not worth it.)
Optimum Prime (27 apparently; 10 on its own.)
Mercy's Hand (2 BP)
Overclock (1 BP. Obviously req. Optimum)
Ishida Prime (15 BP. does not actually require Optimum Prime, but is basically useless without it.)
Understanding the Heart of Darkness(1 BP)
Bleached Skull Enforcer(2 BP) (gives a skill slot)
Air Affinity (5 BP, req a Core Spark)
A Brilliant Realization (0 BP; based on having knowledge I, like every reader of Immersion, already have)
Killing Glare (2 BP) (gives a skill slot)
Magelight (7 BP apparently. I'd put it at 3-5.)
Dynamo (1-2 BP)
Heartstorm (technically doesn't require Optimum; slightly less useless without it. -2 BP with optimum, 0 without)
Inner Bedlam (2-4 BP)
Noble Brand (2 BP)
Anger of the Sky (7 BP, officially. Probably less if you don't have a Silvered Sword. it 'Overwrites', not, 'Replaces', so it may not require Magelight.)
Cringelord (420 BP (blaze points) or something) (a viable solution to Kayaba) (arguably gives you the nightblade class and skills)
Brutal Resolutions (4 BP)
Scale-Piercer (2 BP but I'd put it at 1 because it's just not worth. anything.)
Ironmind (7 BP (1 for not-Koji))
Hundred League Blade (2 BP)
Inherit the Nightmare (2 BP from achievement price.)
Blood and Grace (2 BP from price)
The Dragonheart (7 BP)
One Must Solo A Giant Dragon (7 BP, req BaG or tD) (arguably requires Dread Lord, which is unaccessible)
Might of the Slayer (7 BP)
Furo, Servant of the Overlord (15 BP)
Horror King(15 BP, no pre-requisites)
The Absolute Madman (19 BP+10 (Prime without recursing), requires Nightmare, would take >50 BP if you count out the full chain.)
The Entire Eastern Force (21 BP)
Unorthodox(7 BP) (+2 Skills, +400 to one.)
This matters because of one Perk: Renewed Vigor. Renewed Vigor melts down all Achievements, attributes, skills, slots, and abilities into XP (which, unlike normally, can be spent on Achievements, presumably at the same or a similar rate) (also affects Class Levels even though it doesn't say that).
So, let's say you were a complete madman and- aside from saving enough to get 50 into Willpower- put all your XP into Skill Slots. Then you grabbed Death-Seeker(1), undead wrestler(1), arm of retribution(13),Bleached Skull Enforcer(2), and Killing Glare(2), for 1+1+3+1+1=7 Skill Slots. 50 Willpower from base 10- none of these achievements grant Willpower- costs 1220, so you'd have 18780 XP to dump into skill slots, which you start with 5 of; so, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, you could get 9 Skill Slots, then dump a +7 on there with 3000 or so XP spare.
You end up with 68,000 XP, out of the gate (you could get more- as much as 2,170,000 XP- if you just bought more low-tier achievements matching Death-Seeker, but Koji has not encountered enough other options.), or you can drop Arm Of Retribution for Talos+First+Unorthodox, with the same number of skills but one starting at 400. It's also not like you'd get 0 BP to spend on achievements during this respec- there's obviously going to be some of it which becomes this bountious XP windfall, but Death-Seeker, Arm, Bleached, and Glare (+Talos, First, and Unorthodox) all have notable non-skill-slot effects(which makes sense, since 68000 is less than 2 million), so put together I'd say you'd still have, like... 12-13ish BP left to rebuy achievements with. Is 7 BP for +48000 XP a good trade? well, it beats out the Saint-class Demon Core by 30% without costing an Argent Gift. You can also squeeze out a little more XP by putting it into Crafting before getting First Of Cybertron, or probably a Lot more XP by starting with Strategy as your Level 250 skill(possibly dumping all your XP into that as well) and grabbing Unorthodox- but the math for that is unknown.
[ ] Top Twenty [8 Cerulean Obols] - Your fearsome ability places you amongst the top twenty deadliest Chosen in Aincrad. As Chosen One, but you instead receive 120,000 XP, alongside a budget of 50 BP for Achievements. You now possess one Skill at the 500 level, two Skills at the 250 level, and four Skills at the 150 level. You may trade half your total XP and BP to instead receive 15 Levels in a Unique Class of your choosing - Nightblade, Dragonheart or Fluxstaff, alongside considerable development in the particular Abilities and unique features of that Class.
You may select any Achievement Koji has been offered or had approved, so long as you meet the mechanical pre-requisites. Assume you meet any remotely feasible in-story pre-requisites. Free Achievements acquired by Koji cost BP commensurate to half their value - 1 BP for something like Scale-Piercer, or 3 for Magelight. Your Achievements are re-flavored such that that they don't appear to be exact copies of Koji's. You might receive [Megaton] rather than [Optimum Prime], or be granted a Magic Faerie companion rather than a stuffed dragon. [Megaton] might operate off nuclear radiation rather than lightning, and its [Reactor Core] might be located in your center of mass rather than the Core Spark over Koji's heart, etc…
—-
Finally, the good stuff. Radiant Electrum grants access to the finest capabilities available to you, effects deemed too outrageous or unnecessary for your mission of modest difficulty. But if you've earned our Electrum, you've already undertaken burdens beyond your duly necessary remit. For that, we salute you - even if you acquired such merely by entertaining us for a span.
[ ] First Sword [1 Radiant Electrum] - Save for his unfair advantages, you're the equal of Ishida Koji himself. As per Top Twenty, except your budget is 260,00 total XP and 100 BP. You possess one Skill at the 650 level, three Skills at the 350 level, and five Skills at the 250 level.
You may select any Achievement Koji has been offered or had approved, so long as you meet the mechanical pre-requisites. Assume you meet all in-story pre-requisites. Otherwise, as per Top Twenty.
You possess a magic sword or artefact of power comparable to the Ensilvered Blade, and may spend BP to augment its power as well. It isn't broken.
(First Sword(strategy, unorthodox) is enough for a level 1050 Skill out of the gate, with 0 XP and 7 BP expended.)
[ ] Solitary Pillar [1 Radiant Electrum] - You possess the body, and acquire the skills, of a Player of YGGDRASIL that might otherwise have been transported to the New World. Your character-body is level 100 and holds a single World Item. You may customize your build within reasonable limits. This grants immense power and versatility, but your power within the YGGDRASIL system has already been maximized; there is little room for further growth here.
While you are vastly more capable on net than even Koji during his duel with Heathcliff, you do not have the potential from this option alone to surpass or even approach the mightiest Chosen in the long term. At the uppermost limits of the Cardinal system, the Chosen can raze continents in seconds; you would struggle to level a major metropolis in that same period. In time, they might possess superhuman intelligence far beyond your comprehension; your mind remains mostly mortal. For now, of course, your advantage is overwhelming and nearly insurmountable for any Chosen save for Koji himself.
You may describe your build in terms as general or specific as you like. Not counting your World Item, you can't be more powerful than Momonga. Choose your World Item from these below:
-[ ] Tyrfing - Mighty Tyrfing, Godslayer, Wretched Blade. While a near-peerless weapon on its own, the blade becomes deadlier in every respect against opponents more powerful than oneself. The magnitude of this effect is so great that the wielder would be capable of posing a credible offensive threat to a planet-shattering foe, even if they themselves would struggle to destroy a large island. It also grants nigh-immunity to all curses less powerful than its own; any hostile magics insufficient to affect an entire world can be shrugged off without much issue. The weapon is cursed such that it must slay a sentient being each time it is drawn.
Doubles the wielder's Physical Attack stat after all modifiers. 80% unconditional Armor penetration. Ignore Slashing Resistance. Ignore Physical Defense 50%. Ignore Physical Damage Immunity. +500% Fire and Darkness damage. +100% Lifesteal. +80% Mana Regeneration. Tireless Wielder. Reflects Damage Taken 150%. Cuts Magic as if Physical. Counter Curse: Hostile magics will be responded to by a random Curse of the 10th Tier.
World Item protections. Additionally, wielder is immune to magics of the 9th Tier and below, or of comparable power. Wielder possess 90% resistance to hostile magics of the 10th and Over-Tiers.
Godslayer: Becomes massively more effective in battle against those stronger than the wielder.
-[ ] Jewel of Clouds and Mist - A simple, yet powerful, crowning focus for any regalia.
The wielder becomes 10% better in every respect. Intellect, mana reserves, judgement, good looks, physical parameters, charm, perceptiveness, spell power, and more are affected. Even parameters that should be static are improved - range, duration, effectiveness in all forms even for spells as broad as Wish Upon A Star. This increases the wielder's Level Cap to 110 while they bear the Jewel. Your character will be Level 110 if selected, roughly doubling their overall power in conjunction with the Jewel's other benefits.
World Item protections. Additionally, wielder is always considered to be under heavy cover for purposes of stealth or avoiding notice, should they so desire.
-[ ] Carnwennan - Subtle Carnwennan, blade-brother to Excalibur, its shadowed twin. If the wielder is a martial or magic-focused character, they gain the full skills and (where better) parameters of a specialized Level 100 rogue in addition to their normal capabilities. If the wielder is already a specialized rogue, the hidden power of this blade is unlocked: True Invisibility, which may contest and usually overcome even 'absolute' divinations like True Seeing. With such a tool one might hide even from self-proclaimed gods.
+900% Sneak Attack Damage. Critical Sneak Attack. Ignore Sneak Attack Immunity. Ignore Critical Hit Immunity. Absolute Initiative. +50% Agility. +20% Physical Attack, Physical Defense, Resist and Special. +200% Cold and Poison Damage. Wielder Absorbs Darkness Damage. +60% Lifesteal, +80% Manasteal. Covert Operative / True Invisibility.
World Item Protections. Additionally, the dagger automatically counters hostile temporal magics in the character's vicinity, and drains the mana used in their casting for its wielder.
-[ ] Pillars of Creation [12 Cerulean Obols] - Req. Solitary Pillar. Your entire YGGDRASIL Guild Base, including intact NPCs, is transported alongside you. Your Guild is only slightly weaker than the likes of Ainz Ool Gown. Though your core NPC levels may be comparable to theirs, you cannot match their arsenal of World Items. Your Guild Base does possess one World Item which vastly enhances its defensibility and economic productivity, which you may customize within reason. The layout, features, and overall aesthetic of your Guild Base may also be designed, so long as it does not surpass the Great Tomb of Nazarick in power or utility overall.
You receive up to twelve level 100 NPCs who are steadfastly loyal to you. You also receive hundreds of low-level servitor NPCs, and your Guild Base has the capability to deploy tens of thousands of mid-level combatants, each the equal of a seasoned adventurer, if mobilized for war.
[ ] Perchance to Dream [1 Radiant Electrum] - You receive a Lunar Exaltation*. This is potential unbound in nearly its purest form; with time and ambition you could surpass very nearly any foe, though cosmos-transcending power may take millennia to achieve.
In the interim, your baseline parameters are improved to those of a Lunar Exalt during character generation, if lower, and you possess a broad array of Attribute-boosting Charms and shapeshifting Knacks that grant substantial versatility in everyday life. In raw proactive power you are no match for the First Sword or Solitary Pillar with your Exalt capabilities alone, but defensively you can endure or evade virtually any conceivable attack you are aware of.
*This is a Late 2E Exaltation, with the highest potential described capabilities at Essence 10. You may also choose an [Exalted vs WoD] Exaltation with the Essence cap removed, or even a 3E Exaltation if you so desire. Regardless, if you are a Sorceror you may perform 3E Workings.
[ ] Ninefold [2 Radiant Electrum] - The Archetype.
You may switch at will between nine sets of supernatural abilities, each tied to a particular Attribute. The abilities are generic, almost surpassingly so, but in their conjunction arise infinite possibilities. The sets are as follows:
Strength - Immense physical might, capable of shattering Asia in a single blow. Durability sufficient to withstand many such blows. Fine control sufficient to prevent this might from inconveniencing daily life. Unaffected by problems of insufficient leverage, force distribution or the like.
Dexterity - Super-speed capable of reaching .01c (roughly 3,000 kilometers per second) and reflexes to match. Acts as temporal acceleration (no super-strength or amplified damage to self/others, falling works properly, etc) but does not actually manipulate time, thus cannot be countered by foreign temporal paradigms and the like.
Constitution - Arbitrary near-instantaneous shapeshifting into any form within the bounds of conventional humanity. Damage of any form is automatically shifted away, granting eternal youth, effective immortality and invulnerability to most forms of physical harm, including deprivation, toxins and disease. Should the user not shift back, the form they assume is maintained across power-set changes. For example, a character may take on gargantuan stature via this set before engaging in a grappling contest via Strength, or slight and modest stature before infiltrating a compound via Dexterity.
Intelligence - The character becomes a scientific and technological genius of staggering ability. Given modest resources and modern infrastructure, they could produce within hours objects that exceed current technology (numerically, as well as in the sense of 'achieving impossibilities') to the same degree that current technology exceeds that of the Renaissance; and, within weeks, that of the Stone Age. Somewhat less revolutionary in realms with high levels of baseline technology, but rarely useless.
This genius applies also to most magic systems that rely on formal, abstract reasoning to progress.
Wisdom - The character becomes exceptionally proficient in three mundane professions of their choice, as if they had trained with optimal methods for a human lifetime. They emit a powerful anti-magic field that suppresses all supernatural phenomena, potent enough to reduce a nation-leveling archmage to the level of a novice. The character may slowly alter their skill choices with time and focused concentration. The character may elect to reduce the emission range of the field so as to spare allies.
Wits - The character may manifest powerful telekinetic constructs with precision equivalent to the human hand, strength/durability two orders of magnitude below that of the Strength set, and speed two orders of magnitude below that of the Dexterity set. Constructs emerge from the character's body and have a maximum range of two kilometers. The character benefits from mental acceleration sufficient to control their full-speed constructs as if controlling their own body. The character is aware of events within the vicinity of their constructs as if they were physically present at that point. They process this additional sensory data quickly and without complications.
Charisma - The character may mind control any being insufficiently resistant. Willpower in immense quantities or powerful defenses relevant against supernatural mental influence are typically necessary. Fully controlled individuals act according to the spirit of commands, partially resistant ones may act according to the letter.
Luck - The character may amplify the supernatural powers of another to an outrageous degree, allowing the target to contest a potent demigod within their area of specialty. This is a large, flat bonus to parameters; sufficiently powerful targets may not notice a qualitative difference. The target has no trouble controlling this new power, unless the character wants them to…
Willpower - Massively augments the character's defenses against mental and spiritual tampering, hostile precognition and the like. Perfectly defeats and retroactively undoes virtually any such effect. This set will be automatically activated for an instant if pertinent, immediately overcoming such attacks before switching back.
The Ninefold Archetype offers immediate defensive and destructive power far beyond that of the other options - many hundreds of times faster and stronger than even a combat-focused Solitary Pillar, if only in separation.
However, its future scaling is modest, and somewhat unreliable.
[ ] Shattering [1 Radiant Electrum] - Qualitatively improves the fundamental nature of a previously selected option. This boost equates to about a 70% upgrade in total performance, though it offers access to effects that may otherwise be inaccessible for the option in question.
Examples:
First Sword - You have access to a Supreme Manifestation analogue, placing you roughly on par with Ishida Koji as of his duel with Heathcliff. This doesn't come with negative mental effects.
Solitary Pillar - You now possess two World Items instead of one, and your baseline build can be as potent as the Paladin of Pure Silver.
Perchance to Dream - Increase your starting Essence by 1 and your starting Charms by 10 (or an equivalent amount of Experience). You gain a unique and mighty anima power that's reflective of your nature and interests. A warrior might gain the ability to use physical Excellencies for free during combat, while a magus may gain the potential to access unprecedented Wyld Sorceries that rival the Solar Circle of Adamant.
Body Armor - Your armor grants an additional +20% to All Attributes and expands your reservoirs of supernatural energy by double.
Ninefold - You may manifest a second Attribute set at 70% of its full strength. Combine Wits and Intelligence to build hypertech at speed, or Strength and Dexterity for terrifying might. Strength and Constitution to become nigh-unkillable, and so on.
[ ] Orbs of Kalym [1 Radiant Electrum] - An Artifact of unimaginable potential, these threefold semi-material orbs represent the refracted totality of a once-transcendent being, fractured now like light through a prism into a three-dimensional form you can personally wield. By studying the orbs and integrating them into your psyche, you may amplify their powers and unlock greater abilities.
The Sapphire Orb - The Sapphire Orb, wholly material, grants hydrokinesis and cryokinesis of impressive precision and city-leveling power, sufficient to raise an eighty-story tsunami, or freeze one into the form of a Michelangelo. You may swap positions with the Sapphire Orb at any time.
The Ruby Orb - The Ruby Orb, an impressionist delusion, compounds your passions and makes them infectious. You will feel in all things more strongly and powerfully than before. As you feel, so too will others, any time this reciprocity would be convenient for you. Camaraderie towards others will be returned in kind, but one-sided venom will not become mutual unless you desire to provoke a foe. This effect bypasses all but the most comprehensive defenses against mental intrusion.
You may detonate the orb to mentally enfeeble all within a two-kilometer radius: any so affected will see their intelligence plummet, such that a world-spanning genius be reduced to the level of a base mammal, and those of average intellect instantly slain. Orbs detonated regenerate slowly over the course of two months.
The Emerald Orb - The unthinkable Emerald Orb grants you telekinetic control over the Orbs of Kalym within two kilometers. You may feed the Orb the bodies of your slain foes; it will refactor a portion of their mental and physical capabilities for you, granting you a small percentage of those attributes. Attributes so gained diminish asymptotically towards those of the highest exemplar of each Attribute you have so consumed. If the strongest being you've fed it had STR 100, you are unlikely to ever exceed STR 100 by this method.
Once per week, you may fuse with the Orb for an hour to become a being of pure spirit and four spatial dimensions, rendering you undetectable and wholly permeable to those without specialized or supernatural senses.
A being who learns to merge fully with all three Orbs might regain the unshed glory of the Colossus Kalym, before which worlds entire were as marbles in its outstretched palm.
[ ] The Pocketwatch [1 or 2 Radiant Electrum] - This gold-chrome pocketwatch is merely a mental abstraction of the power gifted you: the power to try again. By rewinding its hands you may turn back time itself, retaining your skills and memories alone as all else is reverted to just as it was back then. However, this power's limits are sharp and very much concrete.
You may live the same span of time again, but only once again for each given period of time. This is no time loop, merely a second try. Nor may you revert time to before the moment you finalize your choices here. However, your powers over time are not constrained only to this application - with practice and ingenuity you may eventually discover how to manipulate the aging of yourself and others, send foes forward in time to a period where your rule is law, or even pause time for a span that you may act unimpeded.
For an additional Electrum, you may loosen the first limit, allowing you to relive the same stretch of time for up to a thousand repetitions. Access to Savor the Moment, Enter the Infinite or The Professor will greatly accelerate your mastery of the Pocketwatch's alternate functions.
---
All powers granted herein synergize fully to a reasonable extent. If you benefit from the Cardinal System and slay a host of monsters with the power of the Sapphire Orb, for example, you may both gain XP from the slaying and absorb their corpses with the Emerald Orb. Similarly, if you possess the Emerald Orb and a Lunar Exaltation, Attributes augmented via the Emerald Orb will increase the dice-caps for your Lunar Excellencies. And, of course, in a desperate scenario you can use Quintessence to spam as many Perfect Defenses as you can literally afford.
Have you finalized your decisions? Well then. Good fortune to you. I pray you shall avoid the procession, and emerge from your completed purpose mostly intact. What more can one ask of this uncompromising reality? - buildseventually
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- Location
- Europe
Since I had a little more time today here is a snippet from my Defeat the Darkness build.
Aumelia Sunsworn has traveled to a distant, sort of, land in search of allies who might vanquish the coming Darkness. It's not going great.
Words: ≈1050
Aumelia Sunsworn has traveled to a distant, sort of, land in search of allies who might vanquish the coming Darkness. It's not going great.
- Fables of Divinity: Distant Xerxia - Part 1
Words: ≈1050
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- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
I want a crossover between Crossworld and Mage-Recruit. Who else wants a cross between the Sovereign's shenanigans and the Humanities finally reconnecting with Earth?
Would make the sudden interest in hegemony more sensible. Whole galaxy opened up? A new age of exploration shall begin!
Would make the sudden interest in hegemony more sensible. Whole galaxy opened up? A new age of exploration shall begin!
[X] Close The Fist
-[X] High Merger [25 Arete]
--[X] Invincible Vigor
--[X] Living Legend
...Ok, I didn't bother voting before because I mostly trusted people, but I do not have faith we will actually manage 50 Arete, and that's what's winning. So I'll actually bother throwing a vote towards my preferred action.
-[X] High Merger [25 Arete]
--[X] Invincible Vigor
--[X] Living Legend
...Ok, I didn't bother voting before because I mostly trusted people, but I do not have faith we will actually manage 50 Arete, and that's what's winning. So I'll actually bother throwing a vote towards my preferred action.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
[X] Close The Fist
-[X] High Merger [25 Arete]
--[X] Invincible Vigor
--[X] Living Legend
Hour of Destiny has no traction atm, so the viable Close the Fist build it is.
I do wonder what the Perfect Merger voters are thinking though. I hope Rihaku gives us another warning before time runs out, we really shouldn't need one but if people haven't switched by now they need a big incentive (such as "death in 24 hours").
-[X] High Merger [25 Arete]
--[X] Invincible Vigor
--[X] Living Legend
Hour of Destiny has no traction atm, so the viable Close the Fist build it is.
I do wonder what the Perfect Merger voters are thinking though. I hope Rihaku gives us another warning before time runs out, we really shouldn't need one but if people haven't switched by now they need a big incentive (such as "death in 24 hours").
Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I do appreciate this level of thought being put into this. Into this whole set of reactions, really.
Not intended.
Technically, it's Canada and the US.
I feel mildly roasted but also I'm laughing so yeah fair cop tbh
in my defense I find settings with a lot of great powers constantly clashing against each other fun!
These are interesting suggestions, though.
That's derived from Shadowrun; your Magic attribute there is capped at your maximum natural Essence, and getting cybernetics (or even biomods, to a lesser extent) decreases your maximum natural Essence.
I tweaked a couple things but largely just aesthetically. The biggest change was just adding proper names for all the Splice options.
I'll concede it's a bit weaker at the outset than some, but it's meant to synergize and scale well with other tech-focused options.
The drawbacks here are greater exclusivity (you be a cultivator and basically anything else, but being an Avatar locks you out of a fair number of other options) and the strings attached. Sect politics can be vicious, but the Game of Gods is still more so.
RAI is that it applies to the denizens of Albion, but not necessarily exclusively when within its borders. That might benefit from some clarification.
Also I will maintain that Britain developing a taste for imperialism is arguably more justifiable than any other nation
Interesting read. I'd probably say that it's not technically forbidden, but while the Greco-Roman gods don't necessarily care about their kids in general, there's a chance that going to work for a whole other Pantheon might prick their pride. They don't exactly have a track record of proportionate response to that.
...I may have overestimated the cultural ubiquity of the MCU. I didn't actually realize that was possible at this point, but I seem to have done it.
You don't necessarily have to claim additional territory in order to exert more influence/dominance.
I will be totally honest, this was the point where I just flatly ran out of ideas because I don't know that much about African culture/mythology compared to most other Sectors. So yeah "totally generic" is about on the money, unfortunately. When I revise I may just scrap this Splice entirely and replace it if I can't come up with a way to make it more interesting.
Just to clarify, the genius-level insight is for squad-level and individual tactics. It still works when you're by yourself. There are also a number of options to get a crew to fight with in the CYOA - joining the Round Table or making more Magical Girls to name a couple.
Yeah, I should really nail down the specifics a little more here.
This is a pretty good suggestion. I may do that.
I may boost the power of the multiplier, yeah.
It's not really intended to be a minion, since your flames can't really take instructions like a golem or a servitor can.
In some strains of Eastern philosophy, Void is also an element. Its properties are... dubiously connected with what I have here though as I understand it, to be fair.
When I revise, this will probably change to anything that has ever been capable of experiencing attraction, rather than being future-facing.
There is a bit more to it than that - the unaugmented version says that with training you can learn to mantle "several" Sins at once, but several is less than seven.
This is DEFINITELY not the intended read. It might need clarifying, but it seems like everybody else who read this got the intended message of "you've got Batman's moral code re: combat, basically."
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
I went for the second highest tier on Rihaku's Patreon, buying us 1 Arete, +10% production of Arete, and a Reroll. Figured you guys should know, considering how Arete is influencing the vote.
Edit: To avoid a double-post, @Aabcehmu since a Claviger can go to any point in space in the universe, are the Humanities' territories somewhat like the Imperium of Man? They might ostensibly control and area, but there's a bunch of unexplored systems and/or unknown areas in there. So explorers have a dual-purpose of recontacting human remnants(which takes precedence to avoid a repeat of Unity) and back-filling the maps. Finding more Dark Shards and the like would fall under the former purpose.
Edit: To avoid a double-post, @Aabcehmu since a Claviger can go to any point in space in the universe, are the Humanities' territories somewhat like the Imperium of Man? They might ostensibly control and area, but there's a bunch of unexplored systems and/or unknown areas in there. So explorers have a dual-purpose of recontacting human remnants(which takes precedence to avoid a repeat of Unity) and back-filling the maps. Finding more Dark Shards and the like would fall under the former purpose.
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Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
This is correct. The territory of the Humanities is vast, but scattered across much vaster space which has never been seen by human eyes, nor touched by human hands.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
How common are massive anomalies caused by various pre-Collapse artifacts, and 'spelunking' into those zones with top of the line ships to try and shut down the thing, hopefully retrieving it intact in the process?
Also, I presume that the Defense Force, while the 'face' of the Humanities for a lot of Recontacts, isn't universally so? Presumably there are incidents with merchants and the like exploring to find mineral wealth and potentially lucrative contracts if they can get the foot in door with a new Recontact. Are there an equivalent to Warp Disasters spitting you out somewhere you weren't intending to go? Clavigers can interdict travel between Unity and Earth, so presumably you can run afoul of artifacts and even the odd natural phenomena that does the same.
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
First Wave reliquaries are one of the treasures of exploration, yeah, and you are correct that there many organizations that are participating in recontact, for the reasons you list among others. There aren't any 'naturally occurring' interdiction effects, or even any artificial autonomous interfictions. As far as anyone knows, even Unity can only interdict a claviger with another living claviger using their Dark Shard. You do very rarely encounter a diasporic mage community who maintain standing interdiction fields, though. Looking for anomalous interfiction effects is part of how various recontact orgs search for humanities that are not sleeper societies.
FROM THE GRAVE I RETURN FOR ONE(?) LAST(??) ART(???)
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Speaking of Sleepers/hollows, what's the deal there? Is it a mix of genetics and the lowercase s soul, or do they literally not have souls? Are Anti-Mages a thing? Is there work being done to Awaken Souls in the hollows? Cutting edge soul research, I would imagine.
I assume there are Workings that can replicate the effects of a Tasteful violently absorbing energy from an opposed Working. Something akin to a Vortex Bomb sending rampant, chaotic Ideal energies everywhere to disrupt virtually any working even with Tasteful guidance working to keep it together.
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
'Sleeper' is another word for a latent mage. Hollows straight up do not have souls, and even transplanting a mage's soul into one tends to, in the best case, overwrite them with the mage whose soul it was, and at worst can be the soul's undoing entirely (if it wasn't Unbreakable, this is the most common result).
Who gets a soul is determined at birth (or occasionally very shortly before or after), and is very certainly not genetic. There's some ongoing research how transmigratory souls find their new hosts, but given that the mage occurrence rate is close to constant across all societies, even ones whose populations are increasing, new souls have to be coming from somewhere.
There are indeed workings that can replicate the disruptive effect, though their nature as rituals means that they need to be prepared and begun in advance, and aren't perfectly flexible in terms of how they're 'aimed', sort of? So overall a tasteful mage is more reliable in defeating hostile magic (though there are also ways to adapt workings to evade a tasteful whose presence you've predicted).
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Hm, couple more questions. What are the most major Humanities factions? The Defense Force is presumably the most powerful mostly by necessity of keeping Unity in check, but for that very reason they can't exert much influence via force of arms, even beyond it being against their charter to do so. I assume that there aren't any major non-Unity wars going on, but presumably petty politics remains a thing in play. Perhaps some nations make a game of contributing the most to the Defense Force to determine who is most worthy of being humanity's first voice, while other deliberately work to balance out resource payouts to keep the Defense Force from actually beating Unity, as they worry about what happens after. Sure, they say they wouldn't go after anyone who wasn't a clear and present danger, but who exactly determines that? While there is presumably a Galactic Senate sort of deal where they can air their grievances, that depends a great deal on other people being willing to hear them out, and at least some of them would likely have made enemies before full Recontact happened with the wider universe.
Another thing. How are hollows regarded exactly? NPCs, where they might act like people but they aren't. Incurable 'genetic' illness? When one guy can make his drawings come to life or shoot fireballs, and the other guy can't, that alone would cause issues, nevermind when one is literally soulless. How do various religions that would spring up take that revelation?
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Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
I haven't actually worked any of the other factions really, which is a bit embarrassing. You are correct that there is a lot of politics going on, and while there aren't any full-scale wars, there are occasional skirmishes between polities, or powerful individual mages who go rogue and are able to sustain a brief conflict with the mage armies of the polities they offend.
Mages only make up about 0.01% of the total population, and outside of Unity the vast majority are still natural born, so very nearly all mages have hollow parents. Some cultures do make the effort to detect latent mages at birth and to awaken them as soon as possible, but it's much more common to only check when the children are close to maturity (since having mage-babies and mage-children is kind of a major hassle, and doesn't offer a lot of advantages), so it's not uncommon for mages to a strong connection to many hollows. Overall, there are some polities where hollows are treated poorly, and many more where a disproportionate amount of the leadership is composed of mages (especially unbreakables, wizards, and trinities), but also quite common for them to be seen as full people with the same moral value as a mage.
e-
As for how various Earth religions might handle it, it's pretty easy to just say that it's a pernicious translation error, and that souls and 'idealspace conduits' are not the same thing and that all humans have 'souls' in whatever sense the religion has.
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- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Any aliens? Or perhaps artifacts? Perhaps they're a suspect for the Collapse? Though there would be those who lump such artifacts under 'just a sufficiently alien culture like Unity' given the proof of just how far humans can diverge from their baseline state.
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
There are no aliens larger than microbes anywhere the Humanities has ever seen, nor any signs of extinct civilizations prior to the First Wave. The Humanities diverged fairly far from each other after the collapse, though, so recontacted populations can end up being pretty weird, physiologically and psychologically. Some people think that Dark Shards are older than the First Wave, from a civilization that existed in the initial instants following the big bang and thus left no recognizable artifacts aside from them, while others think the First Wave invented them, or that they're a natural phenomenon.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
Thinking tonight about the parallel conflicts between Hunger and the Maiden. The first track of the conflict is their competing claims to local omnipotence - "reality control." The second track is their actual close-quarters brawl.
1900 Words
Reality Control
When she enters the universe, it "leaps implicitly to her service", except for the region that Hunger has control of. When discussing this power interaction, her Grace surpasses his Law, but not his control over Space. And while outside of his controlled region, "the path of Grace alone would not suffice."
So then she enters the Human Sphere and tries to destroy it in order to trigger the Geas of Indenture to immediately kill Hunger. Aobaru negates this attack, prompting her to remove her veil and apply high-ISH Beauty as an attack. The exposition says that "the stars and Realms of this cosmos genuflected to her in hapless submission, trembling as they pledged to her service, aching as the very laws of reality followed to do the same."
So far the Maiden has two sources of reality control: Grace and Beauty. When Hunger appears, he immediately hits her (arm) with his sword and they begin brawling. The next description of reality control is here:
Hunger surprises the Maiden with the variety of his reality control (which we know mechanically is obtained through Archmage and Rank). Her reality control, via Beauty and Grace, is defined as "sharper and greater." She predicts a victory in their wrestling over local-reality-control, but not for "long seconds." She expects the fight to be resolved before that happens.
When Hunger talks, she gives up some ground in the contest over reality manipulation to strategically filter out rhetorical attacks from Blood Halo. Keeping the neck-wound closed is also described as a modest "continuous strain." Her thoughts note that precisely responding to Hunger's brute force burns up some potential - committing her to certain effects. As she makes more commitments, her flexibility is constrained. In fact, later she takes a cleave from the FBB that "even she couldn't afford to staunch" which provides evidence that her findross budget isn't literally infinite.
Brawling like Muggles
To quote Dooku of Serenno, it is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by their knowledge of the Force, but by their skills with alightsaber blade (and a shapely foot, respectively). A blow-by-blow account here is less helpful than the above, because there is less abstract ISH tomfoolery. But there is some value in documenting the exchanges:
Hunger cuts out his own eyes immediately after arriving.
The Maiden cries tears of blood after seeing his outfit.
Hunger strikes the Maiden's arm, which is fully destroyed. The Maiden scores a grazing hit with a lance of sunlight to the armor over his heart. Her arm begins regenerating, his burn does not.
Hunger taunts the Maiden and his words cut her throat. She keeps the wound closed with a modest but continuous strain. The Maiden filters rhetoric as a vector of attack.
Hunger feints and almost konks her on the head with the blade's hilt. Her eye and orbital crack from the near-miss. The Maiden strikes at Hunger's knee with a blade of crystal findross but is blocked by the cloak of sky. The Maiden takes a knee to the face, but pulls off her own arm to escape the cloak's grapple rather than take the hit.
The Maiden uses Daylight to scry on the Voyaging Realm, locating Nilfel. Hunger uses this time to hit the Maiden with a cross cleave to her left shoulder bleeding so bad that "even she couldn't afford to staunch it."
The Maiden took the preceding hit to land a knife-hand into Hunger's heart. She also launches a bolt of findross at Nilfel. Being this close to the Blood Halo cuts her to ribbons and the quantity of blood disrupts her Beauty. Aobaru tanks the bolt.
Hunger headbutts the Maiden and Versch bites her as a grapple. The Maiden tosses her hair and cuts off Hunger's jaw and nose. She pats Versch on the head and he lets go. The Maiden slices away half of her body and heals from her self-inflicted wound. Her blood slowly begins to replenish.
She projects victory in twelve exchanges. She notes that he is angling his body to shield the Voyaging Realm from future attacks.
Hunger's lose conditions:
-Getting worn down in direct battle
-Errant strike hits the Voyaging Realm
-Contest of Dominion favors the Maiden
Things we know about the Maiden:
-Her reality control is rooted in Beauty and Grace
-Her findross budget is either infinite or extremely large, but the number of simultaneous effects that she can maintain is constrained
-She can heal / regenerate Hunger's bleed effect via self-inflicted wounds.
-She has simulated countless scenarios of how Hunger might respond
-She has many prepared contingencies, as well as a "final recourse"
With this in mind, consider the two options that we can vote for: CTF and Vendetta
Closing the Fist
At Baseline (0A) this is "something on the order of x40 All Stats and +.3 general ISH." Hungerbaru is much more powerful, but slightly more vulnerable to the Maiden's Beauty. The stated tactic is to end the Maiden before she can deploy her final trump card.
At baseline, Hunger receives one of the Signature Moves. For 25A we can choose two of these options. I've already done one post enumerating their benefits, so I'll be brief here:
-Invincible Vigor: Dramatically improved defenses and health-bar, allows Hunger to absorb power from non-deadly attacks.
-Living Legend: Increases cost for Maiden to heal, limits her access to Daylight while in melee range, spammable RoW, +1000% Lifesteal, and BH's healing penalty halved for lifesteal / doubled otherwise
-Hour of Destiny: Apocryphal activation in Hunger's favor
The Signature Moves are oriented towards finishing the conflict as quickly as possible, before the Maiden can reveal any uno-reverse cards. This means that the contest of Domains is (mostly) set aside in favor of brawling. Invincible Vigor has infinite Might, which also boosts Ruin, so any hit that lands will be even more devastating. Living Legend limits the ISH-calvinball that we've seen so far where the Maiden mostly ignores the text of our abilities. The combination of the two can even cut her off from Daylight. This combination fully addresses the first two of Hunger's lose-conditions, and potentially improves his odds on #3 as well. But, the Maiden's contingencies allow her to attack along many different facets of this battle.
Hour of Destiny pairs best with Invincible Vigor, I think. The Maiden simply has to fail to kill Hunger for long enough to get screwed over by the Curse. Praxis endurance matters less than ensuring a single lucky hit can liquidate the Maiden. If you can't make your own luck then Apocryphal-bought luck is fine too. This combination moderately reduces the chance that combat will last long enough for Hunger to get worn down. It massively reduces the chances of a stray bolt making it to Nilfel. While the Maiden's various contingencies remain in play here as well, Apo-chan is certainly more flexible when responding to surprise bullshit than IV+LL Hunger would be.
I'll talk about Supreme CtF later if it looks like we might have the budget.
Vendetta
At baseline (0A) this option shifts the contest of dominions to favor Hunger, while forcing the Maiden to churn through her various contingencies looking for one that can't be shut down by composite!Gisena. The stated tactic is to avoid over-reaching and getting caught off-balance by an unexpected attack vector.
For 10A, this baseline fusion can be optimized towards Nullification. But we're not spending only 10A so there's no point in talking about this one.
Perfect Merger is 50A, which means we can't (currently) afford it.
So the only real alternative to High Merger is 'An Ending True. And this option has gotten the most attention (or the posts annoyed me enough to be most memorable). The blurb is its own best argument for itself:
The Arcanist's intervention inverts the timeline - the Maiden needs to kill Hunger before the contest of reality control goes against her. Even better, her power is "fully equal to Hunger's own", compatible with the domain of battles, and receives an increased effectiveness against dangers derived from the Apocryphal Curse. And this effectiveness all stems from a sacrifice that further supercharges Hungers domains.
Also, it isn't clear when this fusion will have taken place. If the fusion was completed some time ago, then the Arcanist may have had time to create relevant minions like Turn E! which may be somewhat inured to the Maiden's beauty (I remember that Turn E! was not impressed by Hunger's Praehir status, which is of high ISH elevation…)
However, this ending is a drag. All the posts memeing about finally getting to kill Gisena totally bummed me out. She was a big part of the quest's tone - the amount of stoic-brooding would have been totally out of proportion if she'd been replaced by a different remittance. Enough people like Gisena that I think we shouldn't let this option win. Even the people who hate Gisena shouldn't want this option to win because it's the only one that explicitly mentions the use of a Shattering Blow. If you like Hunger, you should want him to win without needing to push that particular panic button.
Furthermore, this is not a victory-button! The Maiden has alluded to a final ability, which I suspect has to do with Hunger's late wife. The Arcanist cannot Nullify a psychological attack, which means that the Shattering Blow seems extremely likely under this option. Moreover, the Arcanist's power & entry into combat might buy Hunger a breather, but it does not fully address the issue that his "ammo" for Refinement of War is running dry. Hunger and the Arcanist will both be in danger while trying to weather each new contingency. Do we think that the Arcanist, a being who eventually lost the battle with ignominy & oblivion, will be able to defeat the Maiden? The Arcanist has confirmed losing at least once so far.
TL;DR: Supreme > Perfect > High > Ending
Combat tactics are hard to contribute because we're brainstorming things that have to work in Rihaku's head. But the immediate approach in my mind is to many different attack vectors. Insults have been filtered, garish clothing has already caused her to bleed from the eyes, but the BH blurb also mentions "scheming." We are currently voting on a scheme - that's CtF or Vendetta. But Trickery is absolutely part of Hunger's panoply. He could have concealed the location of the real Human Sphere - Aobaru's defense of Nilfel could have been part of the ruse meaning that she has never managed to endanger his subjects yet. Revealing that scheme could qualify as an attack.
(Rhetoric is out, but attacking her reputation in the hearts & minds of his mutinous Navy might qualify if they are time-accelerated enough to parse the battle.)
1900 Words
Reality Control
When she enters the universe, it "leaps implicitly to her service", except for the region that Hunger has control of. When discussing this power interaction, her Grace surpasses his Law, but not his control over Space. And while outside of his controlled region, "the path of Grace alone would not suffice."
So then she enters the Human Sphere and tries to destroy it in order to trigger the Geas of Indenture to immediately kill Hunger. Aobaru negates this attack, prompting her to remove her veil and apply high-ISH Beauty as an attack. The exposition says that "the stars and Realms of this cosmos genuflected to her in hapless submission, trembling as they pledged to her service, aching as the very laws of reality followed to do the same."
So far the Maiden has two sources of reality control: Grace and Beauty. When Hunger appears, he immediately hits her (arm) with his sword and they begin brawling. The next description of reality control is here:
Hunger surprises the Maiden with the variety of his reality control (which we know mechanically is obtained through Archmage and Rank). Her reality control, via Beauty and Grace, is defined as "sharper and greater." She predicts a victory in their wrestling over local-reality-control, but not for "long seconds." She expects the fight to be resolved before that happens.
When Hunger talks, she gives up some ground in the contest over reality manipulation to strategically filter out rhetorical attacks from Blood Halo. Keeping the neck-wound closed is also described as a modest "continuous strain." Her thoughts note that precisely responding to Hunger's brute force burns up some potential - committing her to certain effects. As she makes more commitments, her flexibility is constrained. In fact, later she takes a cleave from the FBB that "even she couldn't afford to staunch" which provides evidence that her findross budget isn't literally infinite.
Brawling like Muggles
To quote Dooku of Serenno, it is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by their knowledge of the Force, but by their skills with a
Hunger cuts out his own eyes immediately after arriving.
The Maiden cries tears of blood after seeing his outfit.
Hunger strikes the Maiden's arm, which is fully destroyed. The Maiden scores a grazing hit with a lance of sunlight to the armor over his heart. Her arm begins regenerating, his burn does not.
Hunger taunts the Maiden and his words cut her throat. She keeps the wound closed with a modest but continuous strain. The Maiden filters rhetoric as a vector of attack.
Hunger feints and almost konks her on the head with the blade's hilt. Her eye and orbital crack from the near-miss. The Maiden strikes at Hunger's knee with a blade of crystal findross but is blocked by the cloak of sky. The Maiden takes a knee to the face, but pulls off her own arm to escape the cloak's grapple rather than take the hit.
The Maiden uses Daylight to scry on the Voyaging Realm, locating Nilfel. Hunger uses this time to hit the Maiden with a cross cleave to her left shoulder bleeding so bad that "even she couldn't afford to staunch it."
The Maiden took the preceding hit to land a knife-hand into Hunger's heart. She also launches a bolt of findross at Nilfel. Being this close to the Blood Halo cuts her to ribbons and the quantity of blood disrupts her Beauty. Aobaru tanks the bolt.
Hunger headbutts the Maiden and Versch bites her as a grapple. The Maiden tosses her hair and cuts off Hunger's jaw and nose. She pats Versch on the head and he lets go. The Maiden slices away half of her body and heals from her self-inflicted wound. Her blood slowly begins to replenish.
She projects victory in twelve exchanges. She notes that he is angling his body to shield the Voyaging Realm from future attacks.
Hunger's lose conditions:
-Getting worn down in direct battle
-Errant strike hits the Voyaging Realm
-Contest of Dominion favors the Maiden
Things we know about the Maiden:
-Her reality control is rooted in Beauty and Grace
-Her findross budget is either infinite or extremely large, but the number of simultaneous effects that she can maintain is constrained
-She can heal / regenerate Hunger's bleed effect via self-inflicted wounds.
-She has simulated countless scenarios of how Hunger might respond
-She has many prepared contingencies, as well as a "final recourse"
With this in mind, consider the two options that we can vote for: CTF and Vendetta
Closing the Fist
At Baseline (0A) this is "something on the order of x40 All Stats and +.3 general ISH." Hungerbaru is much more powerful, but slightly more vulnerable to the Maiden's Beauty. The stated tactic is to end the Maiden before she can deploy her final trump card.
At baseline, Hunger receives one of the Signature Moves. For 25A we can choose two of these options. I've already done one post enumerating their benefits, so I'll be brief here:
-Invincible Vigor: Dramatically improved defenses and health-bar, allows Hunger to absorb power from non-deadly attacks.
-Living Legend: Increases cost for Maiden to heal, limits her access to Daylight while in melee range, spammable RoW, +1000% Lifesteal, and BH's healing penalty halved for lifesteal / doubled otherwise
-Hour of Destiny: Apocryphal activation in Hunger's favor
The Signature Moves are oriented towards finishing the conflict as quickly as possible, before the Maiden can reveal any uno-reverse cards. This means that the contest of Domains is (mostly) set aside in favor of brawling. Invincible Vigor has infinite Might, which also boosts Ruin, so any hit that lands will be even more devastating. Living Legend limits the ISH-calvinball that we've seen so far where the Maiden mostly ignores the text of our abilities. The combination of the two can even cut her off from Daylight. This combination fully addresses the first two of Hunger's lose-conditions, and potentially improves his odds on #3 as well. But, the Maiden's contingencies allow her to attack along many different facets of this battle.
Hour of Destiny pairs best with Invincible Vigor, I think. The Maiden simply has to fail to kill Hunger for long enough to get screwed over by the Curse. Praxis endurance matters less than ensuring a single lucky hit can liquidate the Maiden. If you can't make your own luck then Apocryphal-bought luck is fine too. This combination moderately reduces the chance that combat will last long enough for Hunger to get worn down. It massively reduces the chances of a stray bolt making it to Nilfel. While the Maiden's various contingencies remain in play here as well, Apo-chan is certainly more flexible when responding to surprise bullshit than IV+LL Hunger would be.
I'll talk about Supreme CtF later if it looks like we might have the budget.
Vendetta
At baseline (0A) this option shifts the contest of dominions to favor Hunger, while forcing the Maiden to churn through her various contingencies looking for one that can't be shut down by composite!Gisena. The stated tactic is to avoid over-reaching and getting caught off-balance by an unexpected attack vector.
For 10A, this baseline fusion can be optimized towards Nullification. But we're not spending only 10A so there's no point in talking about this one.
Perfect Merger is 50A, which means we can't (currently) afford it.
So the only real alternative to High Merger is 'An Ending True. And this option has gotten the most attention (or the posts annoyed me enough to be most memorable). The blurb is its own best argument for itself:
- Perfect Merger's (50-Arete) Foremost Runes are described as "the perfect counter to the Maiden's Supreme Grace" and the Arcanist is even better at using them against a rival Maker
- Two stages of Indenture Mitigation massively reduces the territory that Hunger needs to defend. Instead of protecting the entire Human Sphere, he only needs to defend Nilfel.
The Arcanist's intervention inverts the timeline - the Maiden needs to kill Hunger before the contest of reality control goes against her. Even better, her power is "fully equal to Hunger's own", compatible with the domain of battles, and receives an increased effectiveness against dangers derived from the Apocryphal Curse. And this effectiveness all stems from a sacrifice that further supercharges Hungers domains.
Also, it isn't clear when this fusion will have taken place. If the fusion was completed some time ago, then the Arcanist may have had time to create relevant minions like Turn E! which may be somewhat inured to the Maiden's beauty (I remember that Turn E! was not impressed by Hunger's Praehir status, which is of high ISH elevation…)
However, this ending is a drag. All the posts memeing about finally getting to kill Gisena totally bummed me out. She was a big part of the quest's tone - the amount of stoic-brooding would have been totally out of proportion if she'd been replaced by a different remittance. Enough people like Gisena that I think we shouldn't let this option win. Even the people who hate Gisena shouldn't want this option to win because it's the only one that explicitly mentions the use of a Shattering Blow. If you like Hunger, you should want him to win without needing to push that particular panic button.
Furthermore, this is not a victory-button! The Maiden has alluded to a final ability, which I suspect has to do with Hunger's late wife. The Arcanist cannot Nullify a psychological attack, which means that the Shattering Blow seems extremely likely under this option. Moreover, the Arcanist's power & entry into combat might buy Hunger a breather, but it does not fully address the issue that his "ammo" for Refinement of War is running dry. Hunger and the Arcanist will both be in danger while trying to weather each new contingency. Do we think that the Arcanist, a being who eventually lost the battle with ignominy & oblivion, will be able to defeat the Maiden? The Arcanist has confirmed losing at least once so far.
TL;DR: Supreme > Perfect > High > Ending
Combat tactics are hard to contribute because we're brainstorming things that have to work in Rihaku's head. But the immediate approach in my mind is to many different attack vectors. Insults have been filtered, garish clothing has already caused her to bleed from the eyes, but the BH blurb also mentions "scheming." We are currently voting on a scheme - that's CtF or Vendetta. But Trickery is absolutely part of Hunger's panoply. He could have concealed the location of the real Human Sphere - Aobaru's defense of Nilfel could have been part of the ruse meaning that she has never managed to endanger his subjects yet. Revealing that scheme could qualify as an attack.
(Rhetoric is out, but attacking her reputation in the hearts & minds of his mutinous Navy might qualify if they are time-accelerated enough to parse the battle.)
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- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
So, I mentioned doing a Greed build for my Lost Realm Omake, yeah?
200 Insightful Inklings, 20 Informative Opinions, 12 Inherent Memories.
[L] Nihilus. [1 Inherent Memory via 40 Inklings]
[L] Fake*2 True TSH Black. [20 Informative Opinions]
[L] Fake*2 True TSH White. [4 Inherent Memories]
[L] Fake*2 True TSH Quickwater. [20 Insightful Inklings]
[L] Fake*2 True TSH Exavolt. [12 Informative Opinions via 120 Inklings]
[L] Fake*3 True Legendary TSH Battle Magic. [8 Inherent Memories]
A truly stupendously potent fighter, and not without utility beyond that, even initially. TSH breaks the Advancement cap(well, technically it allows for it via breaking conceptual limits), in addition to 300% improved Progression in the chosen field, and +1ISH to the baseline and maximum effect on Battle Magic would take it well past the point of being a match for an Armament, even before Black, with it's power being to break the rules, teams up with To Shatter Heaven in allowing it to cause collateral damage if the user desired or otherwise jailbreak specific spells. Rihaku granted Legendary to Exavolt(same page as the link, first of his posts after my Omake), and noted that his build could beat 5 Armaments fighting very intelligently, but I think this version is superior, not the least because of the speed and general buffing provided by Quickwater and the weakness it introduces in others. With White blocking much of the emotional instability caused by Legendary, and the rapid growth TSH on White would ensure with such immense Mental Contamination and Black would only further curtail it with time.
Speaking of Black, Nihilus is all about screwing up the rules by introducing new ones temporarily, and serves the purpose of allowing rapid training towards mastery of Black and Black's influence on Nihilus in turn. Black could, in time, allow for much greater control over Nihilus, because breaking the rules properly involves knowing their workings and the better you understand existing rules, the easier it is to avoid causing something like an Astral Collapse. Not to mention Black's ability to break rules eventually allowing replication of TSH's effects on conceptual limits and amplification therein. If the Imprisoner is an example of what can be achieved by jailbreaking a Soul Evocation sufficiently, then presumably it would eventually be possible to do the same with anything hit with TSH, from Colors to Imaginary Elements.
Black pushed to the level of Archmage would basically be full on reality-warping on a similar scale, doing stuff like allowing Nihilus to make permanent additions to the laws of physics and metaphysics. You could probably go as far as, say, introducing new Magic Systems to your local Verse this way, maybe even outright importing extant ones like the Verses, Ordinalism, Cultivation, etc. White would let you heal Mental Pollution/Contamination/Stability of others, in addition to providing a direct Willpower buff to improve your defenses against that sort of thing, including stuff like infinite Beauty, and, since it's supposed to be the origin of all Colors, eventually allow you to gain all the others for free, though I don't think you could do that without TSH. Quickwater would likely go from hyperspeed, buffing you and weakening everyone around you, alongside potion-making and stealth capabilities, to speeds sufficient to at least comprehened the fight currently underway, allowing for mass Ennoblement in line with the old bloodcasting ability upscaled to the galactic level, perhaps beyond even what is allowed for by Hunger's rule and Gisena's artifice, weakening things on the existential level like November Sky, and by things I mean everything from enemies to concepts, hiding from Hunger's-rule Panopticon level sensory suites and equivalent mystical senses without so much as bothering to find cover, and full alchemy on the same sort of level as Gisena's artifice. Exavolt would be conceptually expanded in much the same way Rihaku elaborated on, and I can only imagine that it would offer unique Ennoblement paths when combined with Quickwater's alchemy, as well as further augmentation of the bearer's speed. Of course, that's far off into the future.
In the short-term, TSH has massively improved training speed for everything, which makes cross-system synergies I would be much more motivated to think up if I hadn't spent 7 hours pulling up weeds in 85 degree weather(though thankfully about half the time it was in the shade, so it only felt like 75) today something I'd come across very quickly. Oh! Like boosting Quickwater's alchemy by increasing the potency to the point of mind-altering effects that White can facetank. Or Exavolt being a priority because of it's ability to increase your processing speed and the efficiency of your neural impulses, and thus your research speed.
Once White allows the unlocking of all the other Colors, sky's the limit. Yellow and Quickwater's alchemy would combine well. Silver provides healing, which is something only Battle Magic would be likely to provide, and it's unclear if that would work outside of an actual fight. The simplest breaking of the rules there would be to make healing self-inflicted wounds count towards Advancement. Crazy Diamond-style healing would also be on the table.
Violet and Black would allow for all kinds of rules-lawyering on what constitutes a kill. Like, technically, you could say that every moment you kill your old self in order to become the new you. Between cells, including brain cells, being killed and replaced every 7 years, the you of yesterday and the you of today could be considered different people even without any significant events to trigger any kind of drastic change. The you of a month apart is certainly a different person. So at worst, you could get a 'kill' of someone equal to you in power every time you gain a Willpower + or the like, or every time you have a significant experience like seeing a comrade die, which, considering how much the power matters, could let you get a minor but permanent buff upon seeing such a thing as justification for a sudden increase in performance. If the Wits boost from the speed boost qualifies, significant enough boosts might trigger smaller secondary boosts. Best-case? You get a 'kill' every moment. Like Red's Essence compounding upon itself, your power would grow, fed by a furnace of philosophical corpses burned for your Advancement. It would be even better if you could count any past kills, including your killing of viruses and the like via your immune system. After all, they may be of infinitesimal power, but your non-human cells outnumber(though they don't outmass) your human ones, and billions upon billions would add up eventually. Maybe even things that your atoms used to be part of counting as well. If you have a 'past life' as a T-Rex, that could really help you out on this front.
Speaking of Red, that would also be an option. Pseudo-Panoplies via linked Essence like my old Richer Reality series with Flower, perhaps an exploit where you absorb your 'past self' in Essence along similar lines as Violet, feeding you exactly as much Essence as you had a moment before. Can you say grandmastery in Red in a matter of days? Not to mention Exavolt and Quickwater could likely be used to propagate the effects in a manner somewhat less potent than blood, but much better than normal distance-draining. Particularly the latter. This would in turn enhance Black, which would allow for further Red jailbreaking, and on and on into infinity.
Then there's Gold. Given there would be cultures where just about anything would be valuable, using Black to rule break to take the best value for a given thing, from your estimation, to a civilization of Bigfeet, to the Pretty Cure fairies, to an alternate Earth where shoes are the most valuable thing on the planet. You'd accrue wealth with ridiculous speed. The Luck boost would make this a secondary target for upgrading quickly, because sufficient Luck might as well be fate manipulation you have little direct say in.
Blue's knowledge-based Advancement is easily fed by data from the conceptual things Exavolt can do. Discovering secrets is trivial when you can be anywhere there's an Internet connection and read people's minds via their electrical impulses.
Green can be jailbroken by treating the atoms that make you up being billions of years old as your true age, assuming there were no Big Crunches Big Bouncing back into new universes potentially making you quadrillions or even greater ages. Not to mention the Wisdom boost qualifying for the tactic I mentioned with Violet. Oh, and accessing a better version of oak for that particular boost.
Improving what Orange counts as a skill would be amazing. Hyper-specific Prowess Stats for specific things like color coordination, small talk, etc. which would add onto the main skills, in this case fashion and diplomacy.
Pink? Well, you don't need distinct spells to steal any more! Heck, just rip their mana right out of them for your own use! Or maybe you can steal spells in the way Kakashi stole Jutsu. Outright copying the techniques for yourself, or stealing entire disciplines and schools from people for your own Advancement. I suspect Gisena might have been tempted by such an offer once upon a time, and I'm sure the maiden would take the option if it were presented to her as a means of quelling 'Tyrants' who dare question her actions.
1585 words above this line.
One last thing. How long is the average lifespan? For hollows and Mages alike? I assume the latter live longer even without Unbreakables and Transmigrators, if only because I expect them to take augs better. Presumably they can do some limited maintenance just be supplying them with essence, which most likely raises the ceiling on what they can have implanted dramatically even without much in the way of personal talent in making or maintaining the things themselves.
200 Insightful Inklings, 20 Informative Opinions, 12 Inherent Memories.
[L] Nihilus. [1 Inherent Memory via 40 Inklings]
[L] Fake*2 True TSH Black. [20 Informative Opinions]
[L] Fake*2 True TSH White. [4 Inherent Memories]
[L] Fake*2 True TSH Quickwater. [20 Insightful Inklings]
[L] Fake*2 True TSH Exavolt. [12 Informative Opinions via 120 Inklings]
[L] Fake*3 True Legendary TSH Battle Magic. [8 Inherent Memories]
A truly stupendously potent fighter, and not without utility beyond that, even initially. TSH breaks the Advancement cap(well, technically it allows for it via breaking conceptual limits), in addition to 300% improved Progression in the chosen field, and +1ISH to the baseline and maximum effect on Battle Magic would take it well past the point of being a match for an Armament, even before Black, with it's power being to break the rules, teams up with To Shatter Heaven in allowing it to cause collateral damage if the user desired or otherwise jailbreak specific spells. Rihaku granted Legendary to Exavolt(same page as the link, first of his posts after my Omake), and noted that his build could beat 5 Armaments fighting very intelligently, but I think this version is superior, not the least because of the speed and general buffing provided by Quickwater and the weakness it introduces in others. With White blocking much of the emotional instability caused by Legendary, and the rapid growth TSH on White would ensure with such immense Mental Contamination and Black would only further curtail it with time.
Speaking of Black, Nihilus is all about screwing up the rules by introducing new ones temporarily, and serves the purpose of allowing rapid training towards mastery of Black and Black's influence on Nihilus in turn. Black could, in time, allow for much greater control over Nihilus, because breaking the rules properly involves knowing their workings and the better you understand existing rules, the easier it is to avoid causing something like an Astral Collapse. Not to mention Black's ability to break rules eventually allowing replication of TSH's effects on conceptual limits and amplification therein. If the Imprisoner is an example of what can be achieved by jailbreaking a Soul Evocation sufficiently, then presumably it would eventually be possible to do the same with anything hit with TSH, from Colors to Imaginary Elements.
Black pushed to the level of Archmage would basically be full on reality-warping on a similar scale, doing stuff like allowing Nihilus to make permanent additions to the laws of physics and metaphysics. You could probably go as far as, say, introducing new Magic Systems to your local Verse this way, maybe even outright importing extant ones like the Verses, Ordinalism, Cultivation, etc. White would let you heal Mental Pollution/Contamination/Stability of others, in addition to providing a direct Willpower buff to improve your defenses against that sort of thing, including stuff like infinite Beauty, and, since it's supposed to be the origin of all Colors, eventually allow you to gain all the others for free, though I don't think you could do that without TSH. Quickwater would likely go from hyperspeed, buffing you and weakening everyone around you, alongside potion-making and stealth capabilities, to speeds sufficient to at least comprehened the fight currently underway, allowing for mass Ennoblement in line with the old bloodcasting ability upscaled to the galactic level, perhaps beyond even what is allowed for by Hunger's rule and Gisena's artifice, weakening things on the existential level like November Sky, and by things I mean everything from enemies to concepts, hiding from Hunger's-rule Panopticon level sensory suites and equivalent mystical senses without so much as bothering to find cover, and full alchemy on the same sort of level as Gisena's artifice. Exavolt would be conceptually expanded in much the same way Rihaku elaborated on, and I can only imagine that it would offer unique Ennoblement paths when combined with Quickwater's alchemy, as well as further augmentation of the bearer's speed. Of course, that's far off into the future.
In the short-term, TSH has massively improved training speed for everything, which makes cross-system synergies I would be much more motivated to think up if I hadn't spent 7 hours pulling up weeds in 85 degree weather(though thankfully about half the time it was in the shade, so it only felt like 75) today something I'd come across very quickly. Oh! Like boosting Quickwater's alchemy by increasing the potency to the point of mind-altering effects that White can facetank. Or Exavolt being a priority because of it's ability to increase your processing speed and the efficiency of your neural impulses, and thus your research speed.
Once White allows the unlocking of all the other Colors, sky's the limit. Yellow and Quickwater's alchemy would combine well. Silver provides healing, which is something only Battle Magic would be likely to provide, and it's unclear if that would work outside of an actual fight. The simplest breaking of the rules there would be to make healing self-inflicted wounds count towards Advancement. Crazy Diamond-style healing would also be on the table.
Violet and Black would allow for all kinds of rules-lawyering on what constitutes a kill. Like, technically, you could say that every moment you kill your old self in order to become the new you. Between cells, including brain cells, being killed and replaced every 7 years, the you of yesterday and the you of today could be considered different people even without any significant events to trigger any kind of drastic change. The you of a month apart is certainly a different person. So at worst, you could get a 'kill' of someone equal to you in power every time you gain a Willpower + or the like, or every time you have a significant experience like seeing a comrade die, which, considering how much the power matters, could let you get a minor but permanent buff upon seeing such a thing as justification for a sudden increase in performance. If the Wits boost from the speed boost qualifies, significant enough boosts might trigger smaller secondary boosts. Best-case? You get a 'kill' every moment. Like Red's Essence compounding upon itself, your power would grow, fed by a furnace of philosophical corpses burned for your Advancement. It would be even better if you could count any past kills, including your killing of viruses and the like via your immune system. After all, they may be of infinitesimal power, but your non-human cells outnumber(though they don't outmass) your human ones, and billions upon billions would add up eventually. Maybe even things that your atoms used to be part of counting as well. If you have a 'past life' as a T-Rex, that could really help you out on this front.
Speaking of Red, that would also be an option. Pseudo-Panoplies via linked Essence like my old Richer Reality series with Flower, perhaps an exploit where you absorb your 'past self' in Essence along similar lines as Violet, feeding you exactly as much Essence as you had a moment before. Can you say grandmastery in Red in a matter of days? Not to mention Exavolt and Quickwater could likely be used to propagate the effects in a manner somewhat less potent than blood, but much better than normal distance-draining. Particularly the latter. This would in turn enhance Black, which would allow for further Red jailbreaking, and on and on into infinity.
Then there's Gold. Given there would be cultures where just about anything would be valuable, using Black to rule break to take the best value for a given thing, from your estimation, to a civilization of Bigfeet, to the Pretty Cure fairies, to an alternate Earth where shoes are the most valuable thing on the planet. You'd accrue wealth with ridiculous speed. The Luck boost would make this a secondary target for upgrading quickly, because sufficient Luck might as well be fate manipulation you have little direct say in.
Blue's knowledge-based Advancement is easily fed by data from the conceptual things Exavolt can do. Discovering secrets is trivial when you can be anywhere there's an Internet connection and read people's minds via their electrical impulses.
Green can be jailbroken by treating the atoms that make you up being billions of years old as your true age, assuming there were no Big Crunches Big Bouncing back into new universes potentially making you quadrillions or even greater ages. Not to mention the Wisdom boost qualifying for the tactic I mentioned with Violet. Oh, and accessing a better version of oak for that particular boost.
Improving what Orange counts as a skill would be amazing. Hyper-specific Prowess Stats for specific things like color coordination, small talk, etc. which would add onto the main skills, in this case fashion and diplomacy.
Pink? Well, you don't need distinct spells to steal any more! Heck, just rip their mana right out of them for your own use! Or maybe you can steal spells in the way Kakashi stole Jutsu. Outright copying the techniques for yourself, or stealing entire disciplines and schools from people for your own Advancement. I suspect Gisena might have been tempted by such an offer once upon a time, and I'm sure the maiden would take the option if it were presented to her as a means of quelling 'Tyrants' who dare question her actions.
1585 words above this line.
One last thing. How long is the average lifespan? For hollows and Mages alike? I assume the latter live longer even without Unbreakables and Transmigrators, if only because I expect them to take augs better. Presumably they can do some limited maintenance just be supplying them with essence, which most likely raises the ceiling on what they can have implanted dramatically even without much in the way of personal talent in making or maintaining the things themselves.