well, I've already said a lot about my thoughts in regard to the Azure's sacrifice.
To re-clarify, it's not that I'm against it, but more that I think it wasn't given enough
weight.
That's really my only minor complaint about the previous update.
now, let's see what options we're given from the now much improved Gisena and Hunger...
I don't think I need to point out what Archmage and Sophont Halo allow us to do now, but just as a reminder, for November Sky
[ ] November Sky (2 picks, 28 Arete). Conjunctional (Tears of Winter + Evening Sky). Requires both options. Grants +Adorie if taken now.
Hark the first night of winter, whose harrowing cold brings crush of frost, whose clarion sky is bedecked with stars, their light chill and sharp as ice.
*The Artifacts providing this Conjunctional Advancement now emanate an aura of transcendent chill, which passes through allies without harm but which dampens, deadens and slays the enemies of their wielders. Radius of chill is determined by the wielder's Rank; at Rank 9+, multiple star systems can be affected. Effects are dependent on the respective Rank of the wielder versus their targets:
*Wielder of lesser Rank: Chill - Target's Agility and Wits are penalized substantially. This effect becomes massively more powerful and difficult to resist the greater the target's Agility and Wits exceed that of the wielder's, such that even an overwhelming Agility advantage only translates to a modest edge in speed.
*Wielder of equal or greater Rank: Dampen - Reduce the effectiveness of all the target's Attributes and abilities by 20%, +5% per time period of exposure (second, minute, hour, day). Max 40%. Useful both in and outside of combat.
*Wielder of vastly greater Rank (2x Overwhelming threshold): Kill - Reduce's the target's CON or equivalent durability Attribute by 50%, +50% per time period of exposure, max 250%.
*Wondrous Winterland: The Realm of Evening may now manifest a special 'Winter mode.' Allies within the Realm of Evening benefit from an optional aura of fruition, generosity, thanks-giving and good cheer. +++Mental Stability, ++++INT, +++++APP, +++++WILL to wielders, and to allies when within. Wielders always count as hydrated and well-fed.
*Overlapping auras don't stack, but this would help Adorie fend for herself while Hunger is absent.
*++++INT is a lot. The APP and WILL are good too.
*Addresses the overwhelming AGI advantage that enemy Armaments present against Hunger, allowing him to fight Armaments without spamming Refinement of Quickness.
*Fairly 'cheap' Mental Stability, and one of the few ways to receive Mental Stability directly through an Advancement.
We're a LOT above rank 9, so presumably we can influence a good % of the Human Sphere.
If Dien is in our range he should suffer a decent Agility/Wits penalty
Enemies with similar or slightly lower rank (probably Etrynome?): from 20 to 40% penalty to most stats. WIth our range, we're likely to AT LEAST reach the second/minute period easily, and more than likely Hour too.
Enemies we overwhelm in Rank: They should basically die in a second/minute if in our range. We're going to purge a LOT of Dien's creations the INSTANT we leave the RoE!
I don't
think November Sky's range is influenced from Supreme Commander, as it's not a "direct" effect of our rank, but still very good.
ok, and now the reaction.
Dien won't know what hit him. EVEN if he knows about Cursebearers, we ALL are very much aware that Hunger's rate of progression is bullshit
even by progression cursebearers' standards!
and that was BEFORE we got the realm of Evening to play with, OR this cheat soul evocation!
"Tyranny" reaction
Tyranny
What is Hunger's strategy for taking the battle to Dien? All strategies below will be executed competently due to Breaker of Suns, with input from Gisena and the others in their areas of specialty. Tactics can still help, however!
What is the purpose of Gisena's findross suffusion? Note that this effect will not persist if the Sophont Halo is destroyed.
oh, we get to choose that? Let's see...
[ ] Might Alone - While suffused with findross, Hunger's effective Rank is increased by a further 0.5. As she does not benefit from Once and Future's hyper-scaling, even this increase requires a monumental effort to effect, given the heights of Hunger's current power. Stacks with Supreme Commander, Once and Future etc.
well, now that we also got November Sky more rank is certainly worth considering.
..what was our current rank, actually?
- Base Rank: 8.4875
- +1 General Rank
- +1 Military Rank
- +1 Defensive Rank
- +2 Blood Rank
- Mirellyian Rank: 10
- +250% Rank Gain
from "current" character sheet, edited on April 13th.
If I'm reading it right, we basically add the 0.5 to base+general rank.. which means that technically we only reach 9.98 rank for "general" uses, which is LOWER than Myrellian rank.
Still, it should become 10.98 for military rank, so that's still fine. Maybe not as good as I hoped for, but still good, and rank has still lots of room to improve, including, for example, if we take Sword in the stone and proc the Hour of Reckoning, doubling the OaF bonus.
[ ] Spark of Prowess - While suffused with findross, Hunger will gain a broad baseline level of proficiency within all of his domains, substantially increasing the complexity and sophistication of his magical effects. Adds a flat bonus to Hunger's current level of skill regardless of how capable he is, short of true mastery.
On the other hand what we currently lack is truly not power, but
skill.
Getting to skip ahead of the curve and gain some skill in our newly gained magical power would certainly make any plan relying on archmage power much more likely to succeed.
Well, this HEAVILY depends on the kind of plan we're going to follow. Magic-reliant plans (which are the most likely, as we just spent a LOT of arete on Archmage) would likely benefit from Spark more, but November Sky also gives options more relying on rank.
What is Hunger's proposed strategy?
[ ] War Across the Stars - Hunger will focus his initial training on a specific array of domains intended to enable the creation of a truly staggering number of wraith-constructs. Each holding his visage and a small fraction of his overall power, this phantasmal menace will spread throughout Republic space to reclaim territory and effectively proliferate the effects of Supreme Commander. Each phantasmal wraith possesses 10% of Hunger's physical and 50% of his mental and social parameters before Praxis use, and can wield Pressure at his Rank -2 levels, or at the present level of Supreme Commander in their locality. They do not benefit from the Praxis except that they receive 0.1 ISH elevation to speed from the Attainment of Quickness and one-tenth the benefits of the Refinement of Battle (currently x2.1 to their offensive and defensive final parameters).
Similarly muted versions of his other magics exist on each such clone, save for his Soul Evocation; given Might Alone, each should be near to a match for an Armament outside its shroud. Hunger estimates he can maintain roughly ~1 billion of them at a time; with Spark of Prowess, losses will be replenished in short order.
Strike teams will further pursue Dien's outflung contingencies to track, parse, and catalog his myriad contingencies. When the noose is tightened sufficiently, a final broadside of constructs, a veritable attack of the clones, will descend upon Dien and enact the revenge of all humanity upon the Surgeon's final redoubt.
An army of clones will not just serve to efficiently utilize Supreme Commander, it will also act as an occupation force for the subsequent conquest of the Human Sphere, ensuring an easy transition of power with minimal or no casualties. By flooding Dien with an unending stream of expendable, yet surprisingly powerful combatants, he can tie up the Surgeon's own resources, freeing up Hunger to continue advancing in his mastery of the Archmage Soul Evocation until victory is inevitable.
Turnabout is the fairest play of all - wouldn't you say so, Hero?
..ok, can I just point out AGAIN just how
bullshit Hunger is?!
A few weeks ago we struggled against ONE Armament. two or three months ago we were barely a decently above average adventurer for the Voyaging Realm.
Right now, with "Might", we could create a BILLION near-armament-equivalent
minions.
A BILLION!
I doubt there's more than a few DOZENS Armament in existence at all!
Sure, we're not counting the Shroud.. but even then, we can basically just tire them out!
This is basically about as bullshit as Nameless being able to basically elevate any random schmuck to above-Titan tier with just a drop of his blood (and he had a
LOT of blood available)...
This is basically the "why aiming/more dakka" option.
After all, why do we need to actually work against Dien's contingencies ourselves?
we have minions for that!
It also makes conquest of the Human Sphere trivial once Dien is dealt with, andwe can certainly spare a few
millions Hungers to search OUTSIDE the Human Sphere for any trick Dien might have prepared, or even for possible Apocryphal-caused invasion from the outside...
then we can also send a few millions Hungers to the Voyaging Realm,to explore and search for other possible synergistic magics and/or artifacts for our party, or to integrate in our kingdom...
With their pretty high mental stats we could even use them as administrators and researchers! Truly, Hunger can do nearly ANYTHING with thisallby himself!
Yeah, I REALLY like this, especially combined with the "Might Alone" option.
I'm only slightly sad about our companions, ESPECIALLY Letrizia. I mean, she definitely overshadowed by this..
I'm now imagining an update with Dien dying fighting an endless horde of Hunger-clones. I'm sure he'd die smiling, really.
They DO say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... (let's ignore that the quote continues "that mediocrity can pay to greatness".)
Then again, there's nothing wrong in learning from our opponents
[ ] And I'll Form, the Head - Concentrate on the domains of Essence and Union in order to successfully perform Closing the Fist on Hunger, Novakhron, The Ring of Blood, the Forebear's Blade and the Evening Sky. The resultant entity will have Novakhron's base stats and the Ring's primacy, augmented by the full weight of Hunger's magics and Praxis techniques, with the destructive ferocity of the Forebear's Blade and the vast reach of the Evening Sky, all exponentiated by the power of Closing the Fist. By virtue of encompassing the entire volume affected by his Rank, this giga-conglomerate ultrabeing will expand at the speed of Supreme Commander, and simply engulf Dien wheresoever he resides, eventually. The sheer lunatic power of this fusion is all-but guaranteed to bring Dien to a close, but playing this card now invites Apocryphal escalation in the future, to say nothing of the potential collateral damage to the Human Sphere... take care you do not unmake or transmute into un-recognizability the very realm you are supposed to rule!
This is only possible with Might Alone, and marginally at that. After the fusion recedes Hunger won't be able to re-attempt this procedure for several decades at minimum.
nah, I'd keep this in reserve for the NEXT Apocryphal proc.
Like, say, and extradimensional invasion led by Nameless or Doctor Apocalypse or something comparable.
Right now it's just unnecessary, overkill, and leave us without any hidden ace to play.
[ ] Overlord - Focus on accelerating the feedback loop of Progression by directing all of Hunger's efforts towards comprehensive self-augmentation via the power of the Archmage. High-pick fights in the Realm itself will become only more dangerous as Hunger diverts resources from recovery towards pure augmentation, but it is simply too dangerous to pursue any individual strategy when Dien's countermeasures are unknown. When in doubt, pursue power: the ability to fulfill instrumental goals no matter what their idiosyncratic nature. Hunger will focus on attempting to increase his Attributes, the power of his magics, and his Rank in the pursuit of complete supremacy: domination of Dien in every field of endeavour, and thus victory inevitable given time. One he emerges from the Realm and can gather more data via his vastly expanded domains, a more specific strategy can be enacted.
With Might Alone - Power begets power. Significant enhancements made to Supreme Commander and November Sky, likely the most relevant magics in halting Dien's expansion.
With Spark of Prowess - Proficiency lends itself well to operations of a delicate nature. Effectiveness of Mental and Social Attribute augmentations enhanced.
IF taken I think that Might Alone would be the most suitable.
After all the blurb itself says it: "When in doubt, pursue power".
Honestly I think the horde of Armament-level Minion is fine, as even in the worst case it would allow us to deprive Dien of the majority of his systems and resources anyway, and with the minions having access to (diminished forms of) our magics if Hunger can just create a "purify orcish taint" spell the minions can basically free the republic citizens themselves...
Admittedly Dien might have a kill-switch on them, but that was always a possibility, and with a billion minions acting at the same time we'd likely manage to save a good % of them before he could even CONSIDER killing them all.
He might even decide to NOT kill them, as they're simply a possible vulnerability for us in the future... It's not like they add much to our power at this point, we mostly "need them" for the geass quest.
...Not even that, really. Technically we could rule over the ashes by having a few minions in any HS system, though we can all agree the Accursed wouldn't like that very much.
[ ] Quick to Anger - But not particularly subtle. Focus unceasingly on three core areas: finding Dien, traveling to where Dien is, and putting Dien down for good. All else can wait. The consistency and strategic vision of this choice are its strengths; its potential myopia and lack of raw conceptual power its potential weaknesses. Still, there is much to be said for decisively pursuing one's objective, even if one's capacity may be insufficient: is that not the story of Hunger himself, after all?
What ought be done to those things which cannot be cut? Cut through, even so. So it is with Heroes as well. The fastest overall strategy if successful, focused monotonically on Dien's defeat. There's much to be said for limiting your opponent's scope of action...
Both of Gisena's buffs are helpful here.
Another strong option, probably my second favourite (with the minion horde slightly ahead).
minion horde is focused on denying Dien of all his resources and options and taking back all his systems.
This is simply focused on finding him and killing him.
I'd probably go with a "skill" focus here, personally, and I could probably be convinced to vote for this option.
[ ] The Killing Blow - Attempt via esoteric means to create some sort of Astral hyper-virus capable of eradicating Dien itself. Where he hides will matter not, if it is targeted properly, and you've plenty of samples of his work to operate from. Dien expects overwhelming brute force from you; the path of subtlety and technical prowess would run counter to his predictions, but perhaps not his precautions. It will be no trivial thing to slay the Foremost in this manner, very nearly his arena of strength, but even if you fail you still hold the offensive position by virtue of being personally invincible against Dien's counterattacks. What's the harm in trying, especially as this will create a perfect training opportunity for the higher echelons of Archmage mastery?
Spark of Prowess recommended. Gisena will lend her genius to atttempt as well, of course!
mh.. this is an interesting option that I was mostly not considering.
It's a bit of a long-shot, but if we manage it we get the cleanest win possible AND a lot of valuable experience using Archmage's power. And if we don't... well we're a bit worse off, but we STILL got some experience AND are likely ahead enough that we're not really compromised.
I think it's personally not wise to try and face Dien in his specialty when we're NOT completely dominating him, but I can understand the attractiveness.
In the end, though, My heart is mostly set on either minion horde or, maybe,
cutting through the problem and aiming for the head. (with our sword, not with a virus)
ehi
@Rihaku, If I may ask: How do we compare to the Seram from the Interlude right now? How many "picks" would his fight be worth at our current (after this pick) level of strength? I'm curious to see if we have closed the gap enough for him to not be a suicidal encounter.
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