Rihaku
The Internet
Plumed Offering / Vanguard is actually ahead of the Tyrant / Maw, its votes are just split on the vote counter.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Plumed Offering / Vanguard is actually ahead of the Tyrant / Maw, its votes are just split on the vote counter.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Tally incoming:
Hmm, I guess Pristine alone is a bit too conservative. It's true that Once And Future is not a matter of one or two updates. More like ten if we're lucky or even more if we're forced to spend Arete continually. Still, we have to adjust our spending habits so it becomes possible at all. So while my minmaxing soul cries out against the idea of taking 2 Arete options when 7 Arete ones are available, they fulfill our needs well enough and pave the way for interesting advancements.
[X] The Mire Wolf
[X] Evening Sky - Shine Bright
[X] Forebear's Blade - Second Stage
Shine Bright both to heal Letrizia and open the possibility of Gisena's advancement, and Second Stage both to heal ourselves and, well... what kind of hidden boss doesn't have multiple phases?! Even that dragon had one, not that it helped him much.
Don't feel quite suicidal enough yet to go up against the Tyrant Beast though.
[X] The Mire Wolf
[X] Evening Sky - Shine Bright
[X] Forebear's Blade - Second Stage
Shine Bright both to heal Letrizia and open the possibility of Gisena's advancement, and Second Stage both to heal ourselves and, well... what kind of hidden boss doesn't have multiple phases?! Even that dragon had one, not that it helped him much.
Don't feel quite suicidal enough yet to go up against the Tyrant Beast though.
- Location
- Canada
I don't get the people voting for Tyrant Beast.
Apparently the argument is that we've taken a bunch of unnecessary risks in the past, when we couldn't see the exact odds, so we shouldn't shy away from one more unnecessary risk just because we can see the odds. But let me suggest an alternative idea: what if we stopped taking unnecessary risks? Acknowledging you have a problem is the first step, but it most be followed with actually doing something about solving your problem.
Plus, if it really worked like that and we absolutely needed to regularly risk 10% chances of death to succeed, then Hunger would just be doomed and would have no chance whatsoever to ever get his vengeance. If you regularly risk a 10% chance of death, then sooner or latter, and probably sooner, you're going to die. Remember that Rihaku implied that the early game was the most dangerous period for a Progression-type Cursebearer and that the best way for Hunger to maximize his chance of victory was to prioritize survival early on.
Apparently the argument is that we've taken a bunch of unnecessary risks in the past, when we couldn't see the exact odds, so we shouldn't shy away from one more unnecessary risk just because we can see the odds. But let me suggest an alternative idea: what if we stopped taking unnecessary risks? Acknowledging you have a problem is the first step, but it most be followed with actually doing something about solving your problem.
We can gain exp without having to risks instant death, though? What do you think was the risk of us dying in that first fight against the dragon? And both the plume and the mire wolf gives us exp without any risks of death.
Plus, if it really worked like that and we absolutely needed to regularly risk 10% chances of death to succeed, then Hunger would just be doomed and would have no chance whatsoever to ever get his vengeance. If you regularly risk a 10% chance of death, then sooner or latter, and probably sooner, you're going to die. Remember that Rihaku implied that the early game was the most dangerous period for a Progression-type Cursebearer and that the best way for Hunger to maximize his chance of victory was to prioritize survival early on.
Given our current situation, there certainly are better times than right now. We should prioritize getting us out of the death spiral, right now.
I used the exact same argument back in EFB and look at the result: we ended up getting 4 EFB. So given that experience, allow me to be somewhat skeptical of that argument.
They're not. We're a Progression-type Cursebearer, we don't need the added efficiency of EFBs to win:
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- Location
- Pindorama
Goddamn it, I guess I will change back so we don't spend 4 Arete when two would still solve our problem. Rihaku himself said A 2- Arete plan would be best, there's no need to double down for four.
[X] The Mire Wolf
[X] Evening Sky - Pristine Star
[X] Forebear's Blade - Second Stage
[X] The Mire Wolf
[X] Evening Sky - Pristine Star
[X] Forebear's Blade - Second Stage
You say this, but only All Paths was bought "legit"; Truth was first an FB that we could spend Mastermind points to upgrade, Vault was EFB due to Philosopher-King and Distillation was bought using the BP form a year on inactivity. So I do think some discipline is required unless we find some discount.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Having realized I was voting for a 4 arete plan...
[X] The Mire Wolf
[X] Evening Sky - Pristine Star
[X] Forebear's Blade - Second Stage
[X] The Mire Wolf
[X] Evening Sky - Pristine Star
[X] Forebear's Blade - Second Stage
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Personally, I think if we get Build Votes every two updates, and discipline ourselves to a single 2 Arete option for each BV, which should be enough to guarantee short term survival at that point in time, we should be able to 25 Arete every 10 updates or so.
This would require that we select non-greedy picks when we do each BV, though, basically going for 'power' type options each time we enter a BV. It's a balance. If we go for 'greed' options during our BV, we naturally have to spend Arete to get extra power to survive. But if we selected non-Greed options, then we already have the power to survive.
This would require that we select non-greedy picks when we do each BV, though, basically going for 'power' type options each time we enter a BV. It's a balance. If we go for 'greed' options during our BV, we naturally have to spend Arete to get extra power to survive. But if we selected non-Greed options, then we already have the power to survive.
- Location
- Pindorama
Currently the Wolf vote that spends two Arete and the one that spends four are tied. Considering direct GM statements:
I think spending on Shine Bright is unnecessary. Even if you don't believe in saving for something specific; having more Arete to spend when necessary is obviously good. Since they are a valuable resource; we want to have care in spending them, so the fact that just Second Stage plus Pristine solves our problems is enough for me.
I think spending on Shine Bright is unnecessary. Even if you don't believe in saving for something specific; having more Arete to spend when necessary is obviously good. Since they are a valuable resource; we want to have care in spending them, so the fact that just Second Stage plus Pristine solves our problems is enough for me.
Hunger has to compensate for his lost youth somehow! But with context, the title becomes almost melancholy. Week one and we're already drawing more parallels between Hunger and the Tyrant. We wear his ring and wield his Forebear's Blade, we bear the Tyrant's Doom, Indenture binds us to the task of conquest. How much further will we go, before all is said and done? As far as is necessary, I suppose. The Accursed was wise to caution us not to become what we despise.
Have you ever seen anything so full of natural splendor? What a beautiful sight to wake up to, all that's missing is the frolicking of woodland creatures. But we should always mistrust contentment.
Sounds like Verschlengorge had a late night with too much hard liquor, but the truth's worse. We still don't know what damaged him or how he can be repaired. Hunger's instincts hinted that it wouldn't take much for the deluge to come again, but that was before he took even more damage. It's not like we can dial 1-800-FOREMOST and get them to send a tech out to take a look at the Armament. At least the Human Sphere's able to construct Armor Prototypes, that's cause for optimism.
Going after the King, even though we didn't miss, was in retrospect probably a bad idea. Exhaustion and Arete debt are to be avoided at all costs going forward, but at least we're not talking about butter scraped over too much bread. Like Foxglove, the Apocryphal Curse is always eager to point out how things could be worse.
We were warned, now the bill's come due. Gisena seems to have incurred some exhaustion of her own, though as a Third Coalescence Sorceress she's less time-constrained than her juniors. Graces that don't come with their own mana bar like the Evoker's Panoply don't seem to have usage limits beyond the Sorceress' own stamina and the eight-hour transformation window.
They should've taken the hint, surely their attempts to port in getting dispelled was a clue that things weren't going as planned? 'Ber' seems like one to need repeated applications of the cluebat before seeing reason, though. It's also strange that he's acting as the agent of an Astral Lord but the portals aren't Astral Rifts. Cue another bout of curiosity as to what human civilization looks like with this strange blend of technology and magic.
Translating from Gisena-speak, even I'll acknowledge this is a nice gesture. Would Sleep In would've played out differently had the Arete won? But yes, we've overreached and badly need to hunt down some Zs, without being only mostly exhausted we might've died here. The Evening Sky explicitly saved Hunger's life, though admittedly had we not purchased it we would've bought off exhaustion with Arete.
There's that 'we' again, referring to Verschlengorge as a person. If anime has taught me anything, it's that piloting a mech's more than a test of skill or dexterity. Compatibility's the godstat for aspiring pilots; what makes the fairly ordinary Duchess compatible with the Devouring Armament? Why is she unworried about Verschlengorge's Affliction? We really need to get in the robot.
Even Gisena has her limits, eh? She's impressively sanguine about her backstory, hasn't so much as mentioned Jotarun or any of her old friends after that brief initial explanation, which is... disappointing, in a way. I'm sad that she's not sad; I liked Jeanne and thinking about her AU counterpart's bones getting gnawed on isn't fun. If Hunger or Letrizia were to die, would she move on just as quickly? Then again, Hunger hasn't displayed much in the way of outward angst, so perhaps it's a very good mask.
You can consider that sentiment thoroughly reciprocated. The ultimate form of Apocryphal mitigation's got to be subjective interpretation, the Cursebearer deciding what qualifies as 'interesting' to them. If the Tyrant's Doom can theoretically be weaponized with sufficient effort, could the Apocryphal Curse be yoked as well? We're already specced to benefit from constant combat, that was the point of the TSM build.
I guess her Nullity's too potent for ablative tanking with the Evening Sky to be viable? Or it's simply a waste to do that in the opening round when coordinating can achieve better results. Hunger and Gisena have been fighting in tandem for a while now.
A solid beginning, but a band of motley misfits is cause for concern. Group of five, mismatched equipment, entered through portals? We're not just facing adventurers or even murderhobos, these are MMO-players. The apogee of sociopathic greed, and we're effectively a dungeon on... heroic mode.
Yeah, well, we didn't exactly receive advance notice either. Unpleasant surprises all around, but at least we're not naive enough to assume the world's remotely fair. Anyway, Ber's habit of external narration can be mined for intel. 'They' implies he was working with a team who were opening the portals for him, either subordinates of the Astral Lord or more mercenaries.
That synchronized response gives me Code Geass flashbacks. Is Ber an actual noble or does he have a loyalty system of some kind? They could just be humoring him, but dissecting their party dynamics and speculating's more fun.
To continue the MMO instance parallels, Ber's a tank/dps hybrid so obviously he tries to burn the boss down while the rest of the party handles adds. An ambitious spec, going balls to the wall and blowing cooldowns right out of the gate, but the Devourer boss fight's got a soft enrage timer. Can't let Decimator tick too many times! Anyway, for a Getsuga Tensho ripoff that thing does a fair bit of damage. Now I'm wondering how much killing him could upgrade our blade projections. Edge cuts both ways, kid, you're not the only murderhobo in the world.
Not caring about their dead party member's odd, maybe she was another mercenary? Sending their least valuable member in to draw the fire of whatever was blocking the portals is cold, but it worked.
The construct's unconcerned with the way the battle's going, could be that it's controlled remotely and destruction's just a financial loss for the pilot? Another potential survivor means more intel leaked about our capabilities.
Hm, Seralize's appearance invites comparisons to Amaryllis, particularly paired with a blonde archer and in light of the upgrades offered later. If Ber's a Juniper analogue, he's not a flattering one.
Short-range teleportation or Sera tossing Beth to give her a better vantage point? Likely the latter. Their teamwork's decent but truly practiced partners wouldn't need this kind of communication. All in all, it's a mess; they don't care about the mercenaries and Ber's just off doing his own thing, whaling on Verschlengorge.
Not using broadheads against a human target? Charitably, we can assume Beth prepared to fight Verschlengorge rather than the 'adds'. Using a crossbow in this weird mashup of guns, mechs, and magic's a questionable decision in and of itself, but the bolts were enchanted.
The double-jump's a neat trick, but insufficient against Hunger. Also, nice, we finally faked someone out with a boomerang throw, I've been waiting for that capability to become relevant.
The absence of Unshattered is keenly felt here, this pack of middling idiots would've been dust in the wind of his Rank if Hunger was more than an exhausted shadow of his former self. The contrast between her indifference to the demise of their first party member and reaction to Beth's death leaves me wondering what the hell's going on with these people? No analogy's a perfect fit and her rage seems laughable. What did she expect, us to lie down and die?
Hunger's feelings about lacking haste are relatable, the flow of this battle's a microcosm of the way he's engaging with the world. Caught up in the current of events, weathering the Apocryphal Curse's blows, attempting to recover from the latest complication rather than getting ahead of the curve. 'Slow' is a damning adjective for anyone who remembers Jounin Quest and Noboru's teachings. First, Hunger must learn speed; fortunately he picked some up from this battle.
Going full Inigo Montoya, not even once. This declaration betrays both her inexperience and initial objectives. And really, money and glory? She's going to try and claim the moral high ground after coming here on an assassination mission? Rage isn't rational, but there's serious hypocrisy here. If this story has a moral, it's that if you come at a Cursebearer, you better not miss.
I kind of feel for the construct, honestly, as the only surviving professional in this band of escaped asylum inmates.
So, this is what the receiving end of Pressure feels like. Sera's Rank is impressive enough by the standards of the Human Sphere that I wonder if she and Ber aren't outsiders too? The Voyager's Realm has no end of ammunition for the Apocryphal Curse to throw at us. That we're taking wounds from a random swordswoman, not even the primary thrust of this Apocryphal proc, isn't a great sign. If Hunger had access to his own Pressure the bout would be more even, but this encounter leaves me with the worrying feeling that we need to get good fast.
Right, because the Apocryphal Curse can't be content with mere physical threats, that would be uninteresting. All the procs so far have echoed Hunger's past, from the pirate's violet blade to the Tyrant Beast's name and aesthetic. With perspective, it's easy to see this line of thought for a false equivalence. That these people decided to commit suicide by Verschlengorge does not make Hunger the incarnation of everything he fought against. But how will living through centuries of this influence his character? After the hundredth ambush by monologue-spouting murderhobos, hearing the same inane oaths of vengeance, even the deepest well of empathy would run dry.
This is an interesting place to spend what remains of his reserves, but as the saying goes, if it's stupid and it works...
That Sera bought this can be attributed to Hunger's charisma and the fact that he wasn't lying. He does understand and is sorry, it's just that neither fact suffices to dissuade him. Still, that she was susceptible to the ploy at all doesn't speak well of her cunning; I rescind the Amaryllis analogy. She expected him to literally give up and die, called him a monster for slaying in self-defense? Did we accidentally enroll in a Curse exchange program to bear the Brand of the Wretched for a week? What bizarro dimension are these people from?
We don't have A Thousand Cuts or enough stamina for a Fell-Handed Stroke, but experience always tells. The Tyrant was weaker than the Hero in their final confrontation, but managed to bridge the gap. Another unpleasant parallel for the Apocryphal Curse to exploit.
Age and treachery are the Nightmare Praetor's advantages, compounded by internalizing our tactics here as a feat. But the vigor of youth was lost to Hunger long ago. All that remains is the bitter, sober strength of age; Hunger could tell Seralize a thing or two about hate.
Everybody's taking wounds, the situation doesn't look good. Hunger was maimed to begin with and still recovering from the pirate and now Verschlengorge's been all but butchered. That'll slow down our party, possibly even disable the Armament's navigation systems. I wonder if Letrizia wouldn't have been safer making the return trip on her own, all things considered.
What are we, chopped liver? The possibly-literal truth of that aside, Letrizia isn't alone. So much for it being "just like the simulations," asshole. Again with the MMO terminology, thinking in terms of phases, focused on predicting the boss. Ber has a bad case of tunnel vision, if he hasn't noticed that his 'friends' are all dead. One last phase might mean Versch still has something left in the tank? Searching for silver linings, here.
Allowed to die. Positively disgusting, this guy's existence adds insult to the injury of Hunger's history. What a baffling combination of entitlement and delusion. His only redeeming quality's being a walking infosec breach, leaking relevant intel faster than Hunger's losing blood. An 'Astral Lord' putting out a hit on an Armament makes a kind of sense, since the Rift-spawned creatures target them, but implies a disturbing level of intelligence and agency. Clearly the Astral rabbit-hole goes deeper than just Lovecraftian gribblies.
Imagine if we hadn't slept in, then we wouldn't have been capable of even that. That fucking fish had better have been really tasty.
A psychological weakness, that's what the fuck it is. His gaming experience may have prepared him for the Voyager's Realm and whatever powers he now commands, but Ber's accustomed to knowing his enemies. The system feeds him intel and no doubt he watched videos of successful raids to prepare for clearing attempts in the past. He's accustomed to knowing the patterns and implementing countermeasures. But he lacks the ability to improvise and I'd bet his ego's fragile too, since he talks to himself constantly.
The ellipsis really says it all. We haven't even tried trash-talking yet! At least it bodes well for him flying off the handle later, he hasn't tasted real hardship or loss before.
Might be a link between the portal mechanism and his sword? That thing's strong, if even Nullity can't fully suppress a strike. Working for an Astral Lord but not deploying through the Rifts continues to be strange too, I'd like to see what their operation looks like from the other side. If we kill him with enough Arete in the tank, can we start thinking with portals? Sure would be nice to just peace out and dodge Apocryphal procs.
There's not a snowball's chance in hell that Ber would do the same for one of his companions, that Hunger defaults to sacrificing for the sake of his friends is one reason among many I like him.
If Shine Bright winds up winning, I hope it does something for Verschlengorge too. This ambush has been a literal and metaphorical wakeup call; we can't continue to accrue wounds and complications at this rate.
2370 words. I'm conflicted about the vote, but when in doubt,
We were this close to getting a soft one ourselves. The difference in votes between Vendettaboy and Forsakenpotato weren't that great, though I suppose fanworks tipped things over.
- Location
- Canada
Well... We only got a 1 BP discount from True Alchemist and still had to spend the remaining 9, so that's not that much of a difference.
We'll just take it as a lesson for the next time. When the Forebear offers you an option that seems dangerous on the surface, one ought to keep in mind that the guy is an expert at optimization, both of the self and the world.
Enohthree
Hypersane
When I was voting for it?
"If there's one thing that trips up gamers, it's leaving a damaged enemy replenish weapons and skills and coming back only to realize you should have hurried, it passively healed itself while you were away!"
that being said
[X] The Mire Wolf
[X] Evening Sky - Pristine Star
[X] Forebear's Blade - Second Stage
This only costs 2 Arete so we can finally save up for further options, will very likely not screw us over, will get her mostly fixed in less than a week without issue, and gives ourselves not only a permant secondary form of healing, but effectively grants Lord Hunger a hidden extra pool of health every fight.
"Your health pool is doubled. When at half health, i.e. the amount of damage that would outright kill you without picking this option, decrease strength in exchange for a speed boost and ghostly phasing"
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't see the 4 Arete plan as short sighted in this case. Findross and the Form line are both capabilities I'm interested in further developing, not little side powers that will later be discarded.
Yes, you shouldn't vote for it if Form of Rage or findross hold no interest, but in the medium term these options, due to being prerequisites, have the same efficiency as 7 Arete choices - an efficiency that when combined with Experience will be enough for victory.
Yes, you shouldn't vote for it if Form of Rage or findross hold no interest, but in the medium term these options, due to being prerequisites, have the same efficiency as 7 Arete choices - an efficiency that when combined with Experience will be enough for victory.
[x]Plumed Offering
[x]Undying Vanguard
Feeling either this for the safe route out of this mess or the Tyrant and Maw combo for the risky play.
Because standing still is in fact insanely risky when you're faced with a powerleveling foe who can teleport on top of your robot and ultimately all other paths sacrifice powerleveling speed.
Pure Pristine Star barely needs to be mentioned in that regard, but even Second Stage and Shine Bright just kinda seems like a worse Vanguard, except we also roll for a complication.
The raw stat bonuses and new tactical options of Vanguard mean that even with us personally still wounded (which is greatly mitigated by huge CON) we can afford to powerlevel on a much better curve than we can now, and that stuff compounds.
For Second Stage+Shine Bright to keep up I suspect we'd have to both dodge the complication roll and then lean into its advantages of being able to suvive being killed once and being able to heal once a day by taking on otherwise difficult challenges.
But there's not actually that great a number of things for which "We can beat this safely if we have our second form, but not without" applies, cause with our second form basically being an even worse matchup for our bad matchups.
What we're basically looking at are drawn out wars of attrition.
And given that we'd still be accumulating exhaustion both from fighting and from healing up companions as necessary afterwards and that we need to recover our first stage before taking on anything else, that's gonna require more resting windows, which is both bad for powerleveling and bad for Apocryphal Curse shenanigans.
Instead, go Vanguard, heal companions and be able to rely on them for more stuff, while we power through the danger spot with huge CON.
[x]Undying Vanguard
Feeling either this for the safe route out of this mess or the Tyrant and Maw combo for the risky play.
Because standing still is in fact insanely risky when you're faced with a powerleveling foe who can teleport on top of your robot and ultimately all other paths sacrifice powerleveling speed.
Pure Pristine Star barely needs to be mentioned in that regard, but even Second Stage and Shine Bright just kinda seems like a worse Vanguard, except we also roll for a complication.
The raw stat bonuses and new tactical options of Vanguard mean that even with us personally still wounded (which is greatly mitigated by huge CON) we can afford to powerlevel on a much better curve than we can now, and that stuff compounds.
For Second Stage+Shine Bright to keep up I suspect we'd have to both dodge the complication roll and then lean into its advantages of being able to suvive being killed once and being able to heal once a day by taking on otherwise difficult challenges.
But there's not actually that great a number of things for which "We can beat this safely if we have our second form, but not without" applies, cause with our second form basically being an even worse matchup for our bad matchups.
What we're basically looking at are drawn out wars of attrition.
And given that we'd still be accumulating exhaustion both from fighting and from healing up companions as necessary afterwards and that we need to recover our first stage before taking on anything else, that's gonna require more resting windows, which is both bad for powerleveling and bad for Apocryphal Curse shenanigans.
Instead, go Vanguard, heal companions and be able to rely on them for more stuff, while we power through the danger spot with huge CON.
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Rihaku
The Internet
Current vote count?
Solipsistic entitlement from nobles? It's more likely than you think!
Mm, Seralize is skilled, moreso than the pirate captain, and her speed is her strength. Even were Hunger not Exhausted she wouldn't be a pushover.
She got scammed. It happens.
Especially if you're a swordswoman.
VERSCHLENGORGE: You recall what I told the jackal-dragon?
You know it was!
If only the Apocryphal Curse were so easily evaded...
Solipsistic entitlement from nobles? It's more likely than you think!
Mm, Seralize is skilled, moreso than the pirate captain, and her speed is her strength. Even were Hunger not Exhausted she wouldn't be a pushover.
She got scammed. It happens.
Especially if you're a swordswoman.
VERSCHLENGORGE: You recall what I told the jackal-dragon?
You know it was!
If only the Apocryphal Curse were so easily evaded...
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Tally incoming.
- Location
- Earth
[X] The Mire Wolf
[X] Evening Sky - Pristine Star
[X] Forebear's Blade - Second Stage
Not confident about vanguard anymore. Also, sorry, expect some art delays, things have been getting rough where we are. Stay safe, everyone.
[X] Evening Sky - Pristine Star
[X] Forebear's Blade - Second Stage
Not confident about vanguard anymore. Also, sorry, expect some art delays, things have been getting rough where we are. Stay safe, everyone.