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A Simple Transaction I

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runeblue360 said:
Some things to consider. We know that advancements grow in efficiency and value the more you spend at any given time. Stranglethorn is more powerful than 4 Echoes, EFBs are more powerful than 3-4 FBs. We also know that things with unlocking requirements are stronger than things that are freely accessible.

From there, the question is simple: how much value would we get from something that costs us 5 picks, 50 Arete and a Heroic Advancement that was only unlocked by spending another 50 Arete on a Lesser Wish proc?
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By the same token, we might reasonably ask how much value something that costs 5 picks and 52 arete at a discount gives us. Particularly since we've seen that giving power ups to companions comes at a steep discount relative to personal power (cf total eclipse vs Renaissance woman)
 
Regarding the efficiency of Armory compared to Hero's Reward, it isn't that bad! Sure, Armory doesn't spend the Heroic upgrade, but it does spend all 5 picks and more than 52 Arete (it is discounted!), and it lets know for sure what we're getting! And it gives us a robot!
 
Though I am also very tempted by Myth and Legend. Our most important power currently and probably forever will be Praxis, buffing it should be done whenever possible. It might be the best choice here without a doubt in every way. Still haelial headpats are hard to resist.
 
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Aabcehmu said:
Regarding the efficiency of Armory compared to Hero's Reward, it isn't that bad! Sure, Armory doesn't spend the Heroic upgrade, but it does spend all 5 picks and more than 52 Arete (it is discounted!), and it lets know for sure what we're getting! And it gives us a robot!
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It is a strong argument in favor of Armory that it does not spend the Heroic upgrade.

A Hero's Reward prevents us from seeing any build vote options for our Heroic Upgrade.

We won't even get to see the other Heroic Upgrade blurbs.
 
But we need the Haeliel points! For reasons!
What if each Haeliel point reduces advanced mentorship by 50 Arete! Who knows!

I do still want our own Giant robot tho. Decisions are so tough.
 
[X] Accursed Implement
[X] Lessened

I am torn between this and Myth and Legend. Ultimately, Ruling Ring's allure is still too strong for my puny lizard-brain.

What are Haeliel points to Accursed Favor?
 
Rah13 said:
But we need the Haeliel points! For reasons!
What if each Haeliel point reduces advanced mentorship by 50 Arete! Who knows!
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Haeliel points have no mechanical benefit.
*Assuming the enemy is Procyon, victory grants 5 picks, +1 Heroic Upgrade to an Advancement of Hunger's choice, and +2 Haeliel Points. A Heroic Upgrade will grant the Advancement a unique, highly powerful, and otherwise difficult-to-replicate enhancement. This does not mean that Haeliel would encourage Hunger to pursue this course of action. Haeliel Points have no mechanical effect.
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Rah13 said:
But they might have Emotional benefits!

we already have +2 points. Imagine hunger with +5 Haeliel Points! Haeliel would be so proud.
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Yeah. This is the logical result of taking her favour, it's time to embrace what that means, and become one of her Chosen. What is robots compared to that?
 
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@Rihaku Would Inheritor lose us the ability to enhance Deathly Star with Artful Thorn, or would we still be able to use the "normal" ability? Considering how important you said that initial attack was to lowering the stats of the Armament, I would pretty sad to lose such alpha strike capabilities from here on out...
 
Strange9 said:
By the same token, we might reasonably ask how much value something that costs 5 picks and 52 arete at a discount gives us. Particularly since we've seen that giving power ups to companions comes at a steep discount relative to personal power (cf total eclipse vs Renaissance woman)
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Putting aside the fact that we're buying two seperate advancements (the Sixth and Seventh Signs), we know exactly how much value it gives us and I'll be honest my dude, I'm kinda disappointed. Putting aside the blinding radness of giant robot (and it is indeed very rad), I don't think we get too much out of it. For 5 picks and 50 Arete invested in someone else, I'd expect a lot more value than a static power up of fourfold effective combat strength (discounting any teamwork).

Consider the alternative of Refinement of Battle upgrade that allows its effects to be applied to others. A similar likely cost (2 EFBs) but it comes with significantly more flexibility (because it's not specifically a bonus to Versch) and has the potential to scale into infinity. That would give Versch significantly more than a static power boost. Too much of the power of this option is spent on repairing him, which is unappealing when we could do that in the Human Sphere anyway and then get the Signs for free besides.
 
Apo-chan will definitely try to take advantage of whatever ailment we choose here, we just saw here how terrifying she can be. Might be best just to choose Myth and Legend here Honestly. It will also give us another terrifyingly powerful companion.

[X] Myth and Legend
 
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[X] A Hero's Reward

By far the most precious and unique of the things on offer here. We're a Progression Type - being able to make an Armament is a foregone conclusion in the long run, and basically all the other options are not time-limited and can be acquired later piecemeal. But this... when's the next time you think Hunger will face a five-pick fight for heroic reasons? It may well be literally never, given how many OOC resources it takes to survive such a fight.
 
Rah13 said:
But is the respect of a high cursebearer?
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The Accursed's respect/favor is quantified/within the purview of game mechanics. We don't know what it does or if it has any mechanical benefits whatsoever but it's quantified just like Haeliel points. Further, Haeliel points do not imply Haeliel encouragement. She can still think we're a heroic dumbass for engaging Procyon, or that we have a martyrdom complex detrimental to our well being in spite of finding our victory awesome, or something to that effect.

Also, I noticed your edit about +2 vs +5 Haeliel points, we won't have done much of anything when we get the advancement given how much we exerted ourself fighting Procyon. Odds are the 3 additional points are just a retroactive revising of Haeliels opinion of our decision to fight him. Something about the Procyon fight, for whatever reason convinces her to bestow on us Rihakuverse Chosen One status.

*Assuming the enemy is Procyon, victory grants 5 picks, +1 Heroic Upgrade to an Advancement of Hunger's choice, and +2 Haeliel Points. A Heroic Upgrade will grant the Advancement a unique, highly powerful, and otherwise difficult-to-replicate enhancement. This does not mean that Haeliel would encourage Hunger to pursue this course of action. Haeliel Points have no mechanical effect.
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The Hunger of deprivation is the sovereign of Winter.

The brittle wheat is bitten by the chill of his Saber-edge, and falls.

Greater than the Hour of Reckoning is the Hour of his Wakening:

Behold! The reaper amongst his fellows: that is absolute Might.

Winter's Fell Sleep processes from the Asura of Evening,

An Age unbound! The World Entire entombed in ice,

the Realm cold and colder and coldest:

white like snow and black like the onset of night.


[X] Least Foresleep
[X] Myth and Legend
 
A notable issue with Hero's Reward: we won't be able to spend the Heroic Upgrade on Pillars of Creation, which means that we might not be able to heal as much of our Condition in the Realm of Evening.
 
Rihaku said:
Refinement of Purpose [1 + 7 Praxis picks]

The stars could yield, the sky could yield, the Walls could yield, the world could yield, but it was not within him to yield.
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Man, this is maybe the sickest blurb in the quest and passing it up feels so bad. Regardless of what wins, can we agree to get this later? Please?
 
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Accursed Implement enjoins us to find a way to unlock Feat: Orb. I'll put more arguments later for Accursed Implement, but this is just a short write-up.

To jog everyone's memory, it's a feat that offers +.125 Base Rank (if I recall collectly, +0.25 with modifiers), which for reasons extensively debated over 1850 pages is pretty bonkers at the level we're currently at. The blurb for Feat: Crown came from attempting to fulfill Hunger's original desire of introducing the ideals of peace and liberty through Be the Change.

This quote pretty much seals the deal on this interpretation:

Rihaku said:
At last attain the outcome that Hunger died for, what he set out to do before age and treachery taught him what may have been his final lesson, but for the intervention of the Accursed.
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Now, we are offered Feat: Saber, which is mentioned to be exclusive. This may be our final chance to get the Crown, Orb, and Saber trinity bundle. The broader context of this update is fulfilling Hunger's ideal of a hero, one that stands opposed to evil and refuses to back down. It's a wonderful character beat, and reinforces his thematic legacy. Obviously, the saber, while decidedly martial in symbolism, has connotations of romanticism, duelling, and chivalry.

Feat: Orb was offered to us when we unlocked the Fifth Sign. The blurb:

Rihaku said:
The most foundational of sorceries wields the most fundamental of principles. That is all.
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Orb has plainly visible symbolic connotations in magic. We used it to attempt to solve the problems we created by deposing LP, as well as buffet our personal growth to protect Aobaru. I put forward that Orb is gained when making advancements in magic in the purpose of Hunger's ideals. This would probably look like researching a way out of the Voyaging Realm, advancements in the Realm of Evening, something Ring-related, something related to Philosopher's Wreath, and something something Gisena.
 
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