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A Simple Transaction I

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The point raised about Adorie's and thus Augustine's bloodline resisting external dimishment have raised some doubts in my head about Nulity being the trump card we want it to be.

If Cut Through needs the help to beat facetanking the obvious trap a wizard prepared so be it, but in the interim

[X] Quick but Methodical
 
Enohthree said:
The point raised about Adorie's and thus Augustine's bloodline resisting external dimishment have raised some doubts in my head about Nulity being the trump card we want it to be.
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.. why? Do people read what options do?
[ ] Cut Through - Penetrate as far as you can before Gisena detonates the Sea of Nullity; the closer to the epicenter the Lord Protector is, the more her effects will be caught by the Nullity. Risky, but has the best chances of an uncomplicated kill once it goes off. It's important to neutralize any spatial displacement effects that could allow Augustine to evade the reach of Hunger's blade or banish Versch to some unknown plane. The Refinement of Quickness would be an imperfect counter to such techniques.
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the more her effects will be caught by the Nullity
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The point of Tide is not to defeat Augustine, but to clear out her summons, traps, artifacts and so on. We want Gisena to undo LPs prep so we can just crush her in 1v1.

With Methodical, instead of just running at LP after not taking bait, we will take our sweet ass time, allowing Augustine to realize that Tower plain failed so she can switch to whatever backup she has ready. We are ceding our initiative to earn nothing but Tiredness in return..
 
Rihaku said:
Fear Itself

Aobaru arrived, carrying Letrizia, as they made final deliberations for the attack. Hunger's glimpse had afforded only a brief examination of the Lord Protector's defenses, and they were at this moment hoping only that Gisena's ultimate would suffice to negate the majority of them, or for the raw power of Hunger's unleashed Pressure to carry the day.

"What happened?" Hunger asked, taking in the bedraggled appearance of his squire. Letrizia grumbled and shifted out of Aobaru's arms, gingerly leaning on one leg as she stood barely supported by his shoulder.
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Hunger sees Letritzia is injured
"We got attacked," she said. "The hospital staff told us you were busy summoning something, and the Lord Protector took the window to capture another one of us. It was pretty intense for a moment there."

"But," she conceded with a sigh. "Aobaru saved the day. What a freakishly powerful Element... even my Sharpbright apparently can't compete."

Hunger coughed.

"Loathe as I am to leave you kids exposed again," he said, "We're still going to need you to hold the flanks while Gisena, Adorie and I strike at Augustine's redoubt. You should still be in range of my Pressure which will mitigate most of the risk, so fight aggressively unless you encounter an enemy of my level or greater. In that case, flee immediately."
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A range limit on Undying Vanguard? Wasn't in the blurb.
"You got it, Lord Hunger!" Aobaru saluted. "We'll hold down the fort, unless we have to bravely run away."

...

"Please bring Versch back," Letrizia asked, wincing as she stood forward, putting pressure on her injured leg. "He's... my family has given so much to defend our partnership with him. Every Artriez has returned him in good stead to the keeping of the House. If I fail now, I..."

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Why is she still injured now? Not only does her supposed ally have blood casting rank 10.475 to actively heal her with a glance but UV should be giving her a large fraction of his regeneration.
"We'll save Versch." Hunger nodded. "That's priority number one."
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until we get distracted
---

Trudging through the despoiled waste of the Lord Protector's defenses was a thoroughly unpleasant affair, thundering waves and sickening pulses of spellfire raining down upon them. His Pressure sufficed to mitigate the damage, but not entirely, as both he and Gisena were conserving her energy in lead-up to her ultimate. What modest damage they took was quickly repaired thanks to his Ring, its supernal force sufficient to overwhelm the host of exotic conditions that accompanied Augustine's spells.

Adorie lent her Rank to his own, buttressing their aegis of spiritual will, but the spatially-warped mire was still a tedious slog, and terminally dangerous were it not for his overwhelming might.
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These space warps sound hostile. Are they being ripped to shreds by A-DS? Of course not.
It galled him that he had no recourse but simple strength against this opponent, whose finesse and treachery so comprehensively exceeded his own; but if brute force were the most efficient path to victory, he could hardly turn his back. It was almost enjoyable to be the stronger party for a change, conflict so much smoother than the desperate contests against Vanreir, Seralize or the wizened magus of the Outer Temple. All foes mightier than him, laid low by scheming and tactics. Hunger just had to take care not to assume their mantle against the underdog treachery of his opponent.

Cutting through the territory of their enemy's strength did lend one advantage, however: there was plenty of time for Adorie to come to terms with her half-sister's existence. Luckily the enemy Legions were no more than a strong distraction in the face of his strength, the Ring of Blood alone sufficing to bring them to their knees. Hearts palpitated uncontrollably as blood fluxed and congealed, reeling from the scorn of the Ring its ruler. At close range it was a mostly non-lethal means of dispatching the Legions, which allowed Hunger to fulfill Adorie's request for mercy without overmuch slowing their pace.
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Hunger is going so slowly he has to interact with the legions at all.
"My sister..." Adorie clutched her dress with almost archetypical concern, petite brow furrowed as she took in the news. It was at times still disconcerting to witness the storybook mannerisms of Nilfellian royalty, so graceful and proper that one questioned - whether the Realm of Myth was not the true reality, and the outside world merely its fallen reflection.

"I suppose it would be too much to ask that you spare her as well, Hunger? I cannot begin to understand the tortures she must have gone through to become what she now is. But, I understand if you consider her too dangerous to be left alive."
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Some people, upon learning that their supposedly loving sister did not die in the massacre of their family but instead instigated it and was the one who locked her in a tower for over a decade and turned her homeland into an expansionist police state, might be incandescently angry.
"I'll defer to our anti-magic specialist on that matter," Hunger said, "But the default stance is that she will be slain, yes."

Adorie's lip quivered, but she nodded slowly in resolution. "...All right. She is the last of my blood but me, but it was by her own hand that such came about. I wish there was more we could do for her..."
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If you can't handle it we could always behad you and give the Tears to Gisena.
...
"That would be disastrous," Hunger said. "If your Sea of Nullity strips me of the Cloak and much of my Rank, but leaves her unaffected, we might actually fall here."
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Or you could use a RoQ to not be in the AoE. Or you could use the perfect defence from Silver
Gisena summoned a ribbon of Nullity, tracing it gauzily with one finger about in the air. "Don't worry about that, silly. I'll just have to develop a countermeasure to her countermeasure! "
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Give Hunger a zap of non-ultimate nullity to see how it interacts with defensive Ruin.
At last they reached the border of Augustine's inner dominion, the simple command tent now elevated atop a foreboding pillar, column of earth upthrust from the swamp around and fissured with seams of azure and gold. The Cloak of Sky writhed and snapped, bristling before the form of its nemesis: stone to its air, depth to its void.

The senses swam before that impossible tower, its fell radiance swarming mind and spirit. Augustine's forces dwelt in the corners of the real, their might sufficient to rend soul and sanity; yet he was the envoy of a greater power still, before which even such terrors as this were less than motes in the breeze. He flared the Ring of Crimson, bright burning Blood which brought mere Passion to heel, and even fear itself could naught but yield before its fury.
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She's not in the temple in Nilfel. That simplifies things
---

The winner was [X] War with [X] A Burning Spirit.

The time has come. Determine one strategy to face the Lord Protector. All tactical determinations are Hunger's own estimate; the actual capabilities of the Lord Protector may affect the viability of any given plan.

[ ] Cut Through - Penetrate as far as you can before Gisena detonates the Sea of Nullity; the closer to the epicenter the Lord Protector is, the more her effects will be caught by the Nullity. Risky, but has the best chances of an uncomplicated kill once it goes off. It's important to neutralize any spatial displacement effects that could allow Augustine to evade the reach of Hunger's blade or banish Versch to some unknown plane. The Refinement of Quickness would be an imperfect counter to such techniques.

[ ] Slow and Methodical - There's no need to risk things with a hasty assault. The Lord Protector has had subjective hours, possibly even days, to assemble her defenses; if she had decided to liquidate Versch the deed would already be done. Cut down the Tower of Earth with the Artful Thorn and work with Gisena to disassemble as many of the Lord Protector's effects as is practical before charging in. It should only be the work of a few minutes to tear down her preparations of hours. Would potentially leave you open to any sorceries that require your direct presence to enact and minutes, rather than seconds, to do so.
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Gives the bitch time to teleport away
[ ] Quick but Methodical - As above, but use the Refinement of Quickness to substantially hasten the destruction of her preparations. Exhausting, but even a badly drained Hunger should be more than a match for an un-prepared Augustine. ...Right?
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What happened to the Hunger who popped multiple RoQs to get to the rogue Armour then another to get to the Rot Beast then developed and used 4 Artful Thorns in that fight and wasn't exhausted?
*A strategy that is unlocked by Adorie's presence
*Just because it's conditional, doesn't mean it's strictly better than the other options!
*That said, it would be pretty nice to deal with Augustine's defenses without knocking Gisena out or giving the Lord Protector yet more time (with which she might conjure up even more time) to do things.

[ ] Absorb the Tower of Earth [12 Arete, if successful] - Is this really the time for this? Not guaranteed to work.

*Just imagine what the Cloak could be, with earth and sky both bent to your dominion!
*Unlocks a mystery effect as well as one of the following: Immediately gain two Emypreal Signs, Triple the Protection offered by the Cloak, or strongly upgrade the Supreme Enclosure ability (Supreme Enclosure -> Bring To Heel). It is otherwise rarely practical to acquire upgraded versions of Empyreal Signs, which can in some respects match - or even exceed - the glories of the Royal Praxis in the field of magic.
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Meh.
We could spend the Arete on stances instead!
[/QUOTE]
Overall Hunger seems so badly nerfed in this update that I can't assess what should work for him so I'm I'm not voting.
 
Talace said:
Asura, maybe? Halo, to stick with Rihaku's Mega-Armed Men shtick.
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The former I'd actually considered, although the lack of extra arms (or faces) meant I wasn't super happy with it. I don't quite understand the latter, but it sounds quite amusing - explain it to me?
(Not that I can probably use it as-is, there's a canon character named Halo, even if he's obscure.)
 
noliar said:
What happened to the Hunger who popped multiple RoQs to get to the rogue Armour then another to get to the Rot Beast then developed and used 4 Artful Thorns in that fight and wasn't exhausted?
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He was very tired then! But what makes you think a mere 2 Refinements of Quickness and 4 Artful Thorns would suffice for Augustine's defenses? He has Adorie with him, so he could even use 9 Refinements of Quickness without exhaustion, shouldn't it be obvious that it would take more given the wording of the option? But even if that were not the case, Artful Thorn itself has a dramatically escalating cost per cast which would more than suffice to explain the tiredness...

Wolfy said:
.. why? Do people read what options do?

The point of Tide is not to defeat Augustine, but to clear out her summons, traps, artifacts and so on. We want Gisena to undo LPs prep so we can just crush her in 1v1.

With Methodical, instead of just running at LP after not taking bait, we will take our sweet ass time, allowing Augustine to realize that Tower plain failed so she can switch to whatever backup she has ready. We are ceding our initiative to earn nothing but Tiredness in return..
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If you were to use Quick and Methodical the window of action for Augustine would be considerably lower! Surely it's time-efficient to spend a few seconds tearing down the enemy's work of hours and days...
 
Hm, why not see if we can bring this third option into contention? Cut Through does essentially hurl Hunger headlong into the jaws of Augustine's prep, assuming more risk in exchange for less time expended (and thus a higher chance of saving Versch). Quick but Methodical's basically having our celerity cake and eating it too. The aftermath might be tricky if Hunger's exhausted, but I think negating an archmage's contingencies is a worthwhile use of stamina and we'd have the Sea in reserve. Definitely swapping back to Cut Through if it looks like Absorb's going to win, though, this is absolutely not the right time to chase powerups. Remember that Letrizia just got done pleading with us to rescue her hereditary Armament; do you really want to let her down because of some half-baked bait? Also, we haven't had an Apocryphal proc in a while and Augustine is dangerous enough without a Curse's wind in her sails. Avoid presenting unnecessary vulnerabilities, we have better things to spend Arete on than diluting the thematic purity of our Cloak.

[X] Quick but Methodical
 
Slow and Methodical seems to have no traction at all, so let's support Fast instead. I still dislike Cut Through and might go back to Absorb if it's the only other viable option.

[X] Quick but Methodical
 
I mean, the trade-off between Quick but Methodical and Cut Through seems to be that in one we are Exhausted but have Gisena and the LP gets some prep-time while in the other Gisena is spent but we have most of our capabilities and the LP has the least time to prepare. I don't think this is a straightforward calculation, and if we are indeed worried about Apocryphal it seems best to choose the option that gives it the least chance to intefere, which implies the swift resolution of Cut Through. Risky but uncomplicated just seems like a better bet when the opponents chance rests on making the situation more complicated. Especially when that plan makes Adorie such a target...
 
heh. now that we've purchased OaFI, the forebear can only muster a showing mere "billions" of developmental tiers above Hunger's own. We don't need any additional power right now. attacking Augustine head on will be good, and easy to win.

:V


(I'm obviously still salivating over Tower of Earth, but walking directly into a trap without buying any rerolls through patreon makes me a little hesitant to vote for it. when I tried to write an effort post with tactics, I immediately discovered that the LP's "protoplasmic blob" is unlikely to have any blood. Augustine is just not a good matchup for Hunger so all of these options scare me tbh.)
 
Huh. Last time, Hunger absorbed something that didn't even belong to Augustine, and Augustine was able to steal Verschlengorge in return. (Via "a twisted form of equivalent exchange," 'twisted' because the tower didn't belong to her in the first place, and Versch wasn't exactly part of Hunger's panoply or anything.)

Now, we're faced with not a Tower of the Realm of Myth and of the royal family of Nilfel, but Augustine's personal creation? Ha, no. It's not the tower that's the poison trap, it's the act of absorbing it. Namely...

What is she going to steal in return?

Last time she was able to steal Versch just from Hunger absorbing something that he was given permission to absorb. Now, she's baiting him with her atelier or workshop, and with more Empyrean magics.

I bet she's getting ready to absorb Versch plus whatever she takes from Hunger in recompense for this. And planning/hoping that eating both Versch plus whatever she takes from Hunger, can let her power up enough to defeat Hunger.

She's giving him something she can afford to lose, and which she can afford her enemy to steal, in order to hopefully take something valuable from Hunger in return. And use the difference in that exchange, to hopefully bridge the gap between her and Hunger, and defeat him that way.

Hell to the no, this is just bait.
 
TooSlow said:
4 Artful Thorns was sufficient for the lesser aspect of the ur-mother.
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Just don't think it was Artful Thorn. Artful Thorn does moderate damage to whatever target it hits. The Forebear's (first) Cut, by contrast, just insta-murdered [insert arbitrarily large number here] of berserkers and did chip damage to the Ur-Mother's lesser aspect. Different techniques.
 
Haven't had time to read all the comments so I'll just say that this is bait and for once in this quest I'm not in favor of taking it. Like maybe we absorb it and instead of mastering both earth and sky, the two opposite elements cancel out and our cloak breaks. Or maybe the pillar is full of lead inside. I just don't trust the thing.

[X] Cut Through
 
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