That is literally the worst anti-synergy combo. OaF is external +Rank so it wont get added to the Companions calculations. Companions will still have 5.8 Rank.

EDIT: There is some shared delusion in the thread that Companions is actually good. Please ignore anyone who tries to tell you that my statement above is false. They are wrong, no matter who they quote (especially Rihaku)
Companions includes permanent external modifiers in it's calculation.
 
Sorry to add another random topic, but I think this would be another neat thought experiment!

What builds would you guys want for Hunger if all the votes you wanted to win, won?
I think this could be a good way to look back at the thread and analyze how people dealt with different problems and choices as they came up.

I guess this would be more of an ongoing experiment as the quest continues, and perhaps a good way to make Arete if people wanted to create their own omakes around their particular Hunger? I mean, stuff like that essentially already happens in thread considering all the omakes that get posted.

Tagged:
Morals Gang 👼
FAMILY Gang 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦
 
Last edited:
They hated him because he told them the truth
Is this thread going to become just endless insults between Gisena Gang and Fuck-GIsena-but-not-that-way Gang?

On a side-note, i am a man of many alliegences, i have fought for Uttermost, giving Sword the first EFB, but also fought long and hard for mage-gang, trying to become the mage-lord that never was. I have betrayed not-dying gang in the past by breaching the middle, and took risks for the sake of selfleness. Not gonna lie tho, not a fan of Evening Sky, fuck opallescense.

I have fought side by side with so many gangs, have seen us nearly die to a thrust to our fucking faces, hasve seen us almost die because of a motherfucking fish, have seen Elixir die despite us spending just as much arete with a bucket load of other shit, seen Unshattered thrown aside like trash, despite being objectively the best option ever...and all of that is going to be lost in time like tears in the rain.

Anyway.

Morals Gang 👼

Actual moral gang tho. If i see another motherfucking soup debate i'm just leaving the gang bussiness altogether.
 
Last edited:
Alright, bout to sleep here's some tags

Even if my dealings so far have been mediocre, one day i'll hit it BIG 💰 💰 💰

🔮🔮And of course the only other tendency tying my votes together has been random magic shit 🔮🔮

Well, since only two were allowed i'll have to lay my Gisena gang soul to rest forevermore

well that just about does it, nothing else remarkable to see here

💀 Death gang! Death Gang 100 years Death gang forever and evermore!💀

Risk is our creed and escalation our path forward, for what is the point of taking safer passage through life if no excitement is felt? no fear of Death, as it relentlessly marches while you recklessly attempt to obtain more picks? The thrill of a death spiral slowly closing in on you?
If you have felt none of these things at least once in your questing experience, are you even playing bro? or do you simply conform to the masses clamoring for fluff (who should have voted for FREEDOM in that case) that is distasteful for true connoisseurs of the question experience.

Connoisseurs such as myself, yasee i fancy myself a betting man, and the DICE are hot TONIGHT BABY.
Look Not-Dying-Gang, look at me, look back, now at me! Dying gang could approach my GREATNESS if they took risks like me! And wouldn't that simply be fantastic! Now look back, now at me! I am bleeding out but look at this NEVER SEEN BEFORE FIVE PICK DIFINING ACHIEVEMENT. Look back, now at me lying in a pool of my companions blood after barely surviving battling BOTH the Armament fish and Typhon AT THE SAME TIME. Look away, now back again, I am Dead........
.....
....
...
..
.
.
.

but DREAMING!?!?!?!??!

Now, while this ABSOLUTE POWER might not yet be your's, do not FRET Not-Dying-YET-Gang Member, for only a slight SAN penalty, obtaining capabilities mentioned above need only take risks beyond your previous tolerance

here's a piece of advice for if you ever consider choosing the easier road, young upstart Dying-Gang members with short yet bright lives ahead of you.

Yes, you may indeed choose instead to Live to grow Strong.

But consider in retort, Growing Stronger through Living?

So roll those dice as often as you can, and remember these words, words i have long since carved into my heart;

May you live in interesting times.


:)
 
Last edited:
Sorry to add another random topic, but I think this would be another neat thought experiment!

Random topics generate content and are thus welcome. We might not exactly be short on Arete at the moment, but we can always use more.

What builds would you guys want for Hunger if all the votes you wanted to win, won?
I think this could be a good way to look back at the thread and analyze how people dealt with different problems and choices as tey came up.

Mage build~

If Mage Lord had won the Ritual Grounds vote, then things would have been interesting. We would have been on more of a time-crunch, but had a much broader toolkit. With Linear Halo, physical stats would have been highly encouraged, so there would have been a lot of that.

Assuming that Resident Outriders and Vanreir happened despite butterflies... We would likely have picked up Ruinous Valor + Stance, or a couple of echos with Thousand Cuts. No matter what, we would have been in a worse position against Vanrier... Well, maybe not. We'd have lower stats and no Blood debuffs, but with five days of Soul Evocation development we could have had some interesting tools to use in that fight. Might have been the same difficulty really. Also Form of Rage might actually have been used period.

Post-Vanreir, Inheritor would have been unavailable due to Linear Halo, so we might have gone for Stranglethorn for STATS. Or maybe ended up with Uttermost anyway. Which could have resulted in the utterly magnificently hilarious situation of Praxis being available via Cut Through, but unable to be taken because of Linear Halo. The rush to grab Outer Halo would have been something to see. Stranglethorn seems more likely though.

Without blood to buff Gisena, we would likely have used Seals instead. Which may have had knock-on effects. Also with less time available to us thanks to spending a few days on Soul Evocation learning, Vacation arc would probably not have happened. We'd have done something less time-intensive instead.

Perhaps I will continue this AU tomorrow, but for now I must sleep. Cool idea though Callidus.
 
Last edited:
Sorry to add another random topic, but I think this would be another neat thought experiment!

What builds would you guys want for Hunger if all the votes you wanted to win, won?
I think this could be a good way to look back at the thread and analyze how people dealt with different problems and choices as tey came up.

I guess this would be more of an ongoing experiment as the quest continues, and perhaps a good way to make Arete if people wanted to create their own omakes around their particular Hunger? I mean, stuff like that essentially already happens in thread considering all the omakes that get posted.

Tagged:
Morals Gang 👼
FAMILY Gang 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦
Good question! I would be really curious what your answer is: we haven't seen you vote yet so you're still a wildcard!

Are you just looking for the picks that we are sad we missed? I'm sure that the butterfly effect makes changes to the early part of the quest change the plot by a lot.

The pick that I'm most upset about losing in early game is Nightmare Praetor. Imagine how cool it would be to actually plan ahead, and maybe find out the details of our enemies before we fight them instead of getting surprised in every single fight.

Oh, also: False Hand of the Maker!
 
I genuinely can't tell if it's sarcasm...
i've been voting for any plan that might activate Nightmare Praetor for weeks now. I think that it has received less screentime than Iridescence. At least Iridescence gets to be listed in the first 50 build votes or so.

Nightmare Praetor shows up, wins a vote, and then disappears forever.
 
Last edited:
Gang Sign!
Fish Gang 🎣
Not Dying Gang 🚑
MAEG Gang 🔮
SORD Gang 🗡
Evening Sky Gang 🌌
Mercenary (Vote Selling) Gang 💰
Praxis Gang ⚔
Ring Gang 💍
Save Gang 🏦
Dying Gang 💀
Gisena Gang 💜
Ooh Shiny Gang ✨
Morals Gang 👼
FAMILY Gang 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦
PAEG Gang 📜


Pick two, tag yourself.

Everyone is part of PAEG Gang.

I'm 🎣 and 💰.


Hope all these emojis show up on desktop lol, HMU if I missed any.
Ahem
💀🚑

Well okay seriously 💎 ⏭
Thread seems to be slow tonight. I blame the lack of build vote.

So, let's do another thing that generates discussion: hypotheticals. We've done a variety of "You get X in real life" scenarios, but I noticed we haven't done one for surgecrafting, despite the many many fan elements that exist! So, here's the challenge - you get Surgecraft in real life, with a 7 Arete element that is drawn from canon or fan elements. What do you pick?
DeclarationTheory, thanks. 2 Virtual Arete every week? Soon I'll eclipse all the other options. Plus being a genius is nice.
 
Last edited:
What builds would you guys want for Hunger if all the votes you wanted to win, won?
I think this could be a good way to look back at the thread and analyze how people dealt with different problems and choices as tey came up.
I dunno if you read Jikoquest, but can you tell how much Priest and I wanted Muscle Wizard/Unshattered?

That said, going Unshattered/winning such an early/chargen option would mean the quest would have butterfly'd out hard enough that it's tough to say how I would have built Hunger going forward, and what vote choices I would have made in response to different threats, which would have also gone down very differently.

I'll be real upfront though: You can bet your ass I would have voted to make Hunger be able to go Hokuto no Ken as hard as possible. Do you have any idea how much shit you could get up to with Toki's setup, for example? Hokuto Shinken is practically its own whole magic system.

Oh, and... comfy gang, rise up? Or, don't. That's cool too.
 
Last edited:
Fanwork#1900 words

I'm just going to go through all of the names I generated and given them a basic, high-concept summary.

Conspiracyworm: Creates ghostly worms that can 'possess' objects, people, etc., with the degree of possession increasing with the amount of invested worms. Worms can also 'possess' the user, granting increased Intelligence, Wits, Wisdom, Manipulation, and Heartlessness.

Noiseheart: Not totally sure on this one. I suspect that it likes to generate noise, and likes being in places that have a lot of noise, that it's decent at boosting physical stats, and also disrupts divination/precog.

Burnquota: Another one that I'm pretty unclear on. I suspect this one's a sort of buffing element, but in a weird sort of way? Something like, it's a baseline pyrokinetic element, but it can be imbued into allies, giving them a copy of it, or if the ally is already a high elementalist, it sort of, augments their element with extra fire?

Leadweed: Another uncertain one. The only thing I have for this one is a strong mental image of, basically kudzu made out of lead. Fast growing, long-lasting, durable, heavy, and a real pain in the ass to get rid of.

Barrierbasin: I'm kind of at a loss for this one. I guess, maybe a sort of spatial element? It doens't really have a substance of its own, but it can hollow out or make walls of whatever's nearby. Probably pretty good in combination with other high elementalists, like Burnquota.

Favorleak: This probably takes the form of a liquid, but that's about all I really know. It probably has something to do with social stuff?

Freshfeedback: I imagine this takes the appearance of mats of green moss-like substance, coating and clinging to the elementalist and to the target. More of a buffing element, a reactive defense that also improves Wits and Agility.

Deadtribute: Another one that I'm kind of at a loss for. Maybe something kind of necromancy-ish, like an element that consumes dead things to create constructs?

Activateeffect: I've previously said that this probably pretty bullshit, especially at upper levels. I imagine that it takes the form of transparent, almost-invisible tentacles that connect the user to things that they want to 'activate' in one way or another.

Trashtalk: For such an obviously idiomatic element, I'm not actually sure what sort of form it would take. I guess maybe like a tidal wave of refuse? But I'm not sure how to tie that into the provocative, social aspect of the idiom.

Materialreach: Another one I'm kind of at a loss for. Maybe something like a mass of grasping hands? I imagine that it also has the potential evolve into another element.

Gateheal: A healing focused element, for sure, but which I think applies to structures and buildings as well as people, if not more so. I suspect that it might also sort of focus on defeating 'unhealable' wounds, and in general tends to increase the long-term potential/growth of things it heals.

Respectriver: Yet another one I don't have much of an idea for. Probably social focused, but also probably pretty decent at combat with sheer force? Might also be pretty 'brute force' styled socially as well.

Deliverydoor: Opening the way to things desired. Probably high utility, low impact, but the high level versions might let you access things that can feedback into the elementalist's growth rate.

Cavecolor: Another one that's pretty tough for me to think of anything for. Maybe something kind of, like, cave painting related? Darkness, but color? Safety and shelter?

Drawsource: Art supplies, the element! And more broadly, a direct connection between imagination and reality, via the medium of the visual arts. Heavily social focused but with some pretty crazy esoteric potential at the high level.

Closedheat: This gives me the feeling of a sort of glowing aura that sort of 'melts' things, locking them in themselves, limiting mobility and interfering with any sort of functionality.

Pressurepop: Might be a little cliche, but I imagine this as being an exhalation of bubbles. Fairly combat oriented, with bubbles having a pretty potent mix of physical, mental, and esoteric force they release when broken, as well as powering up when the elementalist is at a disadvantage.

Vacuumtradition: A relatively slow going element. Focused on permanent structure of utterdark substance. Making new constructs is excruciating, and gets more difficult with each construct, but constructs also naturally and automatically 'improve' over time, becoming more durable, more effective, more metaphysically real, etc., newer constructs have faster rates of improvement.

Chainsmoke: Obviously an element that's taxing on the body, causing long-term degeneration with even conservative use and addictive to use, but which is otherwise an all-around excellent battlefield control element, with fast moving, durable chains which have the potential to be improved along esoteric dimensions.

Flourishlump: A relatively basic element, a simple mass of muddy stuff, which does not excel in esoteric or complicated uses, but which does have an excellent level of persistence and a truly prodigious rate of production, with the elementalist even being able to fling themselves through the air at extreme speeds simply by directing blasts of the element.

Greenshallow: Another one that I'm really rather at a loss for. Probably something swampish? But I'm not sure how.

Perfecttable: Honestly I selected this one pretty much entirely as a joke. I'm not sure how it'd work seriously.

Pricespread: A defensive/buffing element, taking the form of a sort of paste or slime. It provides some basic damping of attacks it absorbs, but probably more valuable, it lets allies who are covered in it 'spread' the costs of abilities they use, even in ways that are bit weird, such as being able to use a 'once per day' ability once per day per ally by spreading the 'cost' of uses per day between everyone. Potential develops open up even more weird, esoteric ways of splitting things up between allies.

Simulationwind: Not sure exactly how to describe this one in terms of party roles, but the gist of it in my head is that it's a sort of ethereally wind that the elementalist can blow through things to sort of 'read' them, which in turn lets the wind create invisible, selectively-tangible 'simulations' of the thing that was read. Advancements to improve the accuracy of the simulation, number of simultaneous simulations, number of simultaneous read objects, etc.

Velvetprinciple: Another one that I'm pretty lost on. Probably social focused? Might also be highly defensive in terms of physical combat, at the expense of actively weakening the elementalist's physical attacks.

Stickyagent: A minion creating element, I think. The minions are all pretty standardized, and fairly stealth-focused, made of sticky slime, able to compact down into cracks and crevices, stick to the bottoms of people's shoes, crawl along ceilings, etc.

Readypace: An impressively generalist element, basically just a progression system as an element, automatically developing new uses slowly but surely as the elementalists does, anything really.

Jailcrystal: Hunger's soul evocation as an imaginary element, basically. The creation of receptive crystals that can store and hold targets, but with potential advancements to do things like capture qualities of targets, or to target abstract things, etc. Also potentially lets you play pokemon, like Heavenly Tomb.

Cornstage: Already talked about, both by me and others.

Pureconsideration: 100% mental focused element, just straight buffs to mental stats, the ability to create mind-boosting potions, the ability to expand the mind into the substance of the element, granting vastly increased memory, mental speed, etc., but very fragile, subject to physical disruption with potentially catastrophic results if something critical to the elementalist's body's survival had been uploaded to the cloud.

Copybronze: A sort of bronze liquid that can temporarily take the form of things it reflects in its mirror polish. Baseline can only copy physical objects, and will often fail to have unique physical properties of objects it copies, instead behaving like metallic bronze, but advancements can improve the accuracy and allow for the copying of more diverse things, like magical spells or fighting styles.

Ordinarycorruption: A very subversion-focused element, kind of like Conspiracyworm actually. Slow-acting but permanent, slowly overwrites the world in favor of the elementalists, and overwrites the elementalist in favor of their worst self.

Otherslump: Another one that I really have no clue about.

Pauseslip: A sort of time-element, long and thing sheets that can be used to 'store' time, and then used either to trap or slow opponents or burned to accelerate the elementalist. Advancements for more esoteric uses of stored time, like storing the duration of buffs or storing hours spent sleeping. Probably comes with passive, automatic Dodge chances as well.

Farewellmissile: Well, it obviously takes the form of 'missiles', probably ranging from as small as a game dart to as large as an ICBM or maybe even more. Definitely scales with the tech level of the elementalist. Not sure how to include the 'farewell' into it, though. Overall, it might actually be a fairly defensive element? Something like, its attacks are all very strong and potentially with huge AOEs, but that the damage is almost entirely focused on negating other attacks inside the effect, rather than actually damaging opponents.

Properland: Super nation-building focused, I think. The element itself takes the form of a sort of soil, which at once is excellent for growing crops but can also easily be compacted into roads or solid foundations and then erected into buildings and other structures. Permanent, but with little potential for advancement, with the sort of aura the element exudes being mostly fixed, encouraging people to follow their compassion and to cooperate with one another, and calming nature, reducing the severity of storms without decreasing overall rainfall, limiting the aggression of wild animals, discouraging the growth of weeds or destructive plants while encouraging the growth of crops or other helpful plants, etc.

Worldcoat: Another sort of spatial element, I think. I guess bit like a microcosm of the Voyaging Realm actually, in that it lets the elementalist 'steal' patches of space to add to their coat, increasing its internal volume as well as introducing sort of world-elements based on what was absorbed.

Flowerhumor: A sort of pinkish liquid, I think that encourages plant growth wherever it touches, especially of flowering plants. Potential esoteric advancements in the form of encouraging the growth of specific flowers, including ones with their magical abilities.

Utterfeeling: Another one I'm at a loss for. Probably very emotional, but that's kind of obvious.

Doctorspin: A combo healing/insidious element. The element itself takes the form of whirlwinds of healing gas, capable of healing most mundane injuries and with potential advancements to heal more magical injuries, but with the added ability to insert subconscious compulsions, aversions, and other behavior modification into those healed, in proportion to the amount they're healed by.

Causeclimb: Another very progression-y element, I think, though more focused and faster than Readypace. Probably something along the lines of picking a cause or movement to throw yourself into, and gaining fast, powerful progression that degrades quickly if your devotion fades (even if the movement is successful in the end).

Warbrilliance: Mental stats applied to combat is the name of the game for this one, I think. Ridiculous stratagems, light precog, and general utility effects that are all very specifically tuned to aid in a war effort, conveniently packaged in the form of searing white radiance.

Itemorbit: A sort of alchemical element, I think. A liquid that can dissolve objects, which lets them be mixed together and then precipitated out as new fusion of the inputs, or separated and precipitated into purified components.

Tirednail: Offensive/debuffing element, I think, that tends to take the form of malevolent metal spikes that drain away the energy of whatever they pierce, a baseline effecting primarily living things, but with potential advancements adding all sorts of entropic effects.

Empiricaltumble: Another one that I just added because I thought it sounded funny, rather than because I had any idea at all about how it'd work.

Buffetplastic: Fake food for fake benefits! Buffs and debuffs packaged together to let allies make favorable tradeoffs, with potential advancements improving the ratio of buffs to debuffs, expand the range of potential buffs and debuffs, as well as standard stuff like improved output.

Civilroof: A bit like Properland, I imagine that this is a very civilizational element, a sort of aura or atmosphere that falters when used in wide open spaces but can fill up an enclosed space to provide powerful mental and social benefits.
 
Well okay seriously 💎
???
What is this secret gang? What do they seek, is it money (votemarkers), fame? or something that eclipses all that the thread has seeked thus far?

TELL ME, what do you seek?

Now on another unrelated note, i seem to have found a piece of propaganda just stuck in the discard pile of my computer

The curious lad that i am, i click on the image expecting the ''usual'' images i host on Personal Comp, when i discov>>>>>>>>>>>>>
GAH, almost lost my sanity by just thinking about it!

Confused, as i have no recollection of what was on the image, i hope for people made of stronger fibers to perhaps parse the picture, and devise a memetic counter measure? (only if up for it tho)

Now, do not feel pressured, only take the Risk if you feel the need!

Edit: Derped, was it the ring? image comprehension failing me today
 
Last edited:
Favorleak: This probably takes the form of a liquid, but that's about all I really know. It probably has something to do with social stuff?
I wonder if this could be a gas that slowly breaks down promises, oaths, and other social obligations in the area? Or else something that slowly indebts everyone in the area to the user.
 
I wonder if this could be a gas that slowly breaks down promises, oaths, and other social obligations in the area? Or else something that slowly indebts everyone in the area to the user.
Oh yeah, that definitely works!

I'm kind of embarrassed at how many insidious/evil elements I ended up generating.
 
800+ lil opinion piece for PAGE GANG

Good question! I would be really curious what your answer is: we haven't seen you vote yet so you're still a wildcard!

Are you just looking for the picks that we are sad we missed? I'm sure that the butterfly effect makes changes to the early part of the quest change the plot by a lot.

The pick that I'm most upset about losing in early game is Nightmare Praetor. Imagine how cool it would be to actually plan ahead, and maybe find out the details of our enemies before we fight them instead of getting surprised in every single fight.

Oh, also: False Hand of the Maker!

Yeah I was more looking for how you would have built your hypothetical Optimal Hunger based on the options available in previous votes. This honestly gets really hypothetical really fast since difference at the beginning of the Quest would make for wildly different circumstances just because the thread's overall toolset would dramatically shift depending on what was taken.

Also yeah i forgot what Nightmare Praetor does ( I don't think we have it though? or do we?)

Right now I can say my current choice would have been Princess + Companions. I'm not sure what second EFB I would have argued for as the Friendship/Family themes of an Arthurian EFB would have covered the kind of rulership I would want Hunger to emulate.

Things I definitely wanted the thread to pick up at multiple points/choices I wanted/ but didn't make it: Elixir, Threefold, Let It Rest, Diplomancing Vanreir (which we didn't have good enough stats or rolls for I think?) , talking to the pirate dude instead of just bum rushing him in a fit of anger, Constitution + None, Not taking Form of Rage because I thought it encouraged recklessness in the long run (although I did like the A E S T H E T I C. I actually like Rank thematically so I'm glad that got picked. I honestly would have liked if the Von Atreiz family existed in the Temple (Thusly i wish the temple chose that 4? arete social option because honestly it would have been really cool to find some semi-peaceful resolution to the Azure Ring's suffering. i feel like a lot of people died in the temple that didn't need to if Hunger had been able to apply less direct methods.

That's part of the grand tragedy of Indentured Cursbearers with things like Decimation and Tyrant. He's forced to take paths that lead to more deaths or chaos even as he tries to help people and cleave to his ideals. A Cursebearer like Hunger is ultimately a danger to those around him based entirely on the whims of his curse and the efforts he makes to mitigate his curse. Tyrant was one of the most odious ones for me because it doesn't allow hunger to be productive in society without working thru loopholes like using increasingly large amounts of Charisma to bypass the agency of others.

I genuinely liked the thread picking up Sky Veil and I hope the thread eventually picks up a granular ability to ratchet Charisma up and down so that Hunger can actually keep interacting with normal people without brainwashing them. Of course, he could just Ennoble them once his Ring gets powerful enough to do whole civilizations in a quick amount of time.

Generally speaking I'm in favor of King and Court/Crew type dynamics in Quests. I just enjoy that Found Family storyline that comes together over the course of a socially focused/friendly character's run. In Hunger's case I like the eventual dynamic of him bringing back his old friends and wife and being able to tell them he found some measure of peace and happiness. Of course he would upgrade them immediately after so they could speak with him on a level playing field. That's what my Golden Ending is after all the Vengeance malarkey is said and done.

If Hunger must be a ruler, then I would rather he be one that works towards the ultimate ideal like say Older Gilgamesh, Aragorn, King Arthur at his heights, perhaps even the Minds from the Culture (if only for their general benevolence and protection of their subjects overall freedoms). And if he doesn't need to rule anymore someday then I would prefer a hunger that slips into the background, watchful but at peace. (like Simon at the end of Gurren Lagann, Gandalf the White as he leaves Middle Earth with Frodo, Zhao Zhang when Eastern Rhapsody stopped, etc.) I enjoy seeing people walk to the end of their respective paths knowing that they did everything they could to achieve lasting peace. Perhaps not everything works out, as with Hunger and Frodo's thematic maimings, but they have ultimately left the world better than they entered it.

Those are the kind of Heroes I enjoy the most. They don't have to be the strongest, wisest, or even the most influential in the grand scheme of things (although they usually are), instead I would rather the hero simple finish what they started.

Samurai Jack, the protagonists of Princess Mononoke, Captain Alaric from the Grey Knights Omnibus (40k).

I like heroes and worlds that are deep, but ultimately finished by the time the hero's journey is done. This can happen in a variety of ways and you may not see everything a particular setting has to offer (that's what fanfiction is for after all), but you can at least say that what you did see stuck with you positively, or at least gave you something to ponder.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top